UFC 220 - Miocic Vs Ngannou

derfderf

Oezdemir via KO

The Nal wrote: »

Amazing the amount of young healthy people in need of dick pills isn't it? Anderson Silvas go to excuse.

They'd come in handy if you had a coke habit.

Useful.Idiot

DC via Decision

Re steroids and technique - could be noted that taking steroids for your whole career gives you a significant recovery advantage over cleaner athletes. You can train longer, harder and more often per day than clean fighters and that would include drilling techniques over and over again, so there must be some carryover there with regards technical advantage.

CurryFlavoured

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not disregarding the difference athleticism makes. But I see that as an advantage in a fight, in terms of performance.
For example, say I roll with a big blue belt who is stronger than me, then I roll with a high experience belt who is smaller than me. They'll both give me an equally hard time. But afterwards, I feel I couldn't unquestionable state that the purple belt was more technical. More skillful.
Does that make sense?

I don't think Jones is/was one of the best because of his results, performances, or because he could physically pull off athletic the moves. It was more the way he was hardwired to even attempt them. If somebody else was as athletic and strong as Jones, they probably would do any of that stuff.

Compare that to Ngannou. Devastating power and speed. But that's about it. There's nothing technically impressive about his striking. He loads up and wings it, if it connects it's goodnight. If somebody else had that power, they could probably pull off those KOs.
.

I understand what you're saying, and I understand that skill is very important in fighting, particularly jiu jitsu. But a better analogy would be - who would you rather fight; a man with a given set of skills/physical capabilities, or a man with the same set of skills, but also a 5-10% advantage in terms of power,strength, endurance. No brainer.

Whether or not you believe that the physical advantage he gave himself was very significant or not is irrelevant tbh. You don't feel it's significant because his skillset is so strong anyway, I'm pretty confident that his physical prowess played a massive role in his domination. I can get into this if you want, but these are just our opinions. Trying to guess what Jones would be like without this physical advantage is pie in the sky stuff, we don't know - maybe he'd have been champ, maybe he'd only have been top 15. The underlying point that is indisputable is that Jones put substances in his body to give himself an unfair physical advantage, and for that reason I don't consider him when talking about the greatest fighters of all time.

Mellor

DC via Submission

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Whether or not you believe that the physical advantage he gave himself was very significant or not is irrelevant tbh. You don't feel it's significant because his skillset is so strong anyway, I'm pretty confident that his physical prowess played a massive role in his domination.

I don't think I said the steroids were an insignificant edge. Certainly didn't mean to give that impression. I'm fairly strongly anti-PED in general.

I just think that if the most skilled person in a sport decides to get on the juice. They don't stop being the most skilled. But you're right, we can't ever know where one ends and the other starts.