Addicts / Abusers and women

jonnny68

Fu*k me that's one of the saddest stories ove read on here mate you have my complete sympathy here.

valoren wrote: »

I see it with my own parents, both in their late 60's now. My dad is an alcohol addict. He has been in a serious denial about it since I can remember.

He is a narcissistic arsehole of the highest order, yet my mother still stays with him to this day to our frustration.

Down through the years he has;

Been arrested twice for drink driving....within the same month in the early 80's. She did nothing.
Has thrown a punch at my mother during a drunken argument when we were kids around the same time. Still nothing.

Left the home without notice, when my brother was an infant, and moved to England after he got a government grant ostensibly to set up a business but spent it on a drinking sabbatical in England. He effectively abandoned the family with 3 kids aged 6, 4 and 4 weeks old. He came home after 9 months, when the funds had run out and pretended like nothing happened. Still my Mother took him back.

He fell asleep while badly hungover, while supposed to be minding my brother, aged 2, in 1986 who managed to open the front door and managed to walk to our Aunt's house just over a mile away. It's a miracle nothing bad happened. We live in a suburb.

He has fallen out with his entire family over the years. He has 6 brothers and 1 sister who love him as a brother but simply have no time for him. He is regarded as a nuisance who has to be tolerated by my mother's family, avoided where possible.

Has lost countless jobs through the years, through indifference, by falling out with people there, by being unreliable, by showing up late, hungover etc.

In 1993, he asked me for a 'loan' of £20 after I made my confirmation, aged 12, which I refused. He had no cash and was planning to go to the pub. I was 12 and knew exactly what he wanted it for.

In 1997, he was involved in the setting up and coaching of an underage soccer team and on a trip to England was drinking and had to be sent home by the Committee. He was supervising children while pissed as a fart and they needed to do what needed to be done.

He still regularly drove through the years while pissed drunk and thankfully never hurt or killed anybody.
Has been arrested twice for drunk and disorderly behaviour and spent the night in jail in the early 00's

Whenever he had a sizeable amount of cash, he would go on two week benders that would involve staying until closing time and getting up early, driving the car to the early morning pubs and wash, rinse repeat until the money was gone.

He has gotten violent with me on numerous occasions when I called him out on his drinking, he has thrown punches at me and I've thrown punches back purely because of his drinking and the trouble it has caused.

After another serious bender in 1996, he committed himself to a psychiatric ward in Cork (St Anne's). He stayed for 4 days until they realized there was actually nothing wrong with him mentally. In hindsight, it was pure deflection from him, he claimed he was being driven mental by my mother. If anyone asked questions so to speak, he could blame my mother. And not his drinking addiction. Still nothing changed. Still she stayed by his side despite appeals from us as teenagers to do herself a favor and get rid of him.

In 1999, after winning a settlement of £12,000 spent 7 months drunk every day until the money ran out. The country was going through a building boom, he was a qualified, talented welder and he was instead in the boozer. Work was beneath him.

In 2003, pissed on whiskey, after he tried to take a swing with a golf club at my younger brother, 19 at the time, who had angrily spoken out against his drinking. I literally had to throw him out of the front door and slam it shut on him.

In 2004, Christmas Day, he had been drinking daily for a month beforehand, we weren't talking, it was a toxic atmosphere and we went to visit relatives graves as we usually did, we came home to find a fire was lighting in the backyard. He drunkenly claimed it must have been arson, but we knew it was him. And it was his way of getting attention. The fire was next to the oil tank and if we hadn't spotted it who knows what might have happened.

Christmas Day 2006, pissed on Whiskey, I had to restrain him from driving around to look for an open garage or shop for more booze and had to hide his keys, he passed out asleep soon after thankfully.

He has a litany of empty naggins of whiskey and vodka badly hidden around the house.

He again moved out of home in 2009, complaining that our mother was driving him mental and stayed in a dingy bedsit for 6 months, but returned reluctantly because our mother was frightened living on her own. He has ever since effectively been a lodger in the home. He contributes nothing to the upkeep of the house, bills etc. He is constantly abusive towards her, shouting at her and belittling her as being stupid.

He has twice been drunkenly abusive towards my wife before and while she was pregnant at family events. We nearly came to blows......again.

He has most recently, last October, been in a scuffle with Iarnrod Eireann staff in Heuston Station and had to be restrained and escorted off the train after giving racist abuse towards a Polish security guard after he had drunkenly jumped the queue and jumped over a barrier to board the train. He spent the night in a cell to sleep off the drink.

And despite all that. It is my mother who has brainwashed us against him. She has the problem with drink. We have the problem, not him. In a pure contradiction, while he claims my mother is thick stupid, she still has the intelligence and cunning to manipulate 3 grown men. Pointing this out to him makes him hit the roof. He knows I am intolerant of his behavior, that I understand his manipulation and abuse, he knows I wipe the floor with him and he threatens violence when called out.

In his deluded head, he isn't an alcoholic. He is just being a social drinker, and likes a drink. It would make you laugh if it weren't so serious. Yet, people would think butter wouldn't melt, that he's a lovely man unaware of the toxic reality. Before Christmas, he said he was going to slit my mother's throat as she was driving him mental. He was completely sober. She is on anti-depressants for the past number of years over him, again pointing this out to him merely results in shouting and roaring from him.

He's not laughing now. He is now in very serious trouble, more below. And yet my mother will still stay with him. He at the age of 69 now realizes what he wants to do with his life. He wants to be a football scout. He paid the bones of a thousand euro for a course certificate from England. On New Years Eve, he was complaining about the heating being turned off by my mother. He'd have it on all day if he could, but he doesn't hand over a penny. He left the house the following day, in a huff to stay to stay with a drinking buddy. He was driving, and he bought a bottle of whiskey. He rang me, drunk, to inform me he was going about a divorce. We would need to talk to my mother and arrange a nursing home for her as she was gone crazy. He was on the brink of killing her the night before he said. I called him out, read him the riot act about his behaviour and he hit the roof, cursing and insulting me. I was a blue shirt preacher, an idiot and a stupid muppet etc. I recorded the message if required by the guards, he makes a threat 8 times.

Later that night he drove, he rang my brother and said he was going to end it all by driving into the local cemetery wall. He wanted to be buried there after crashing. He was looking for attention, later he was caught at a check point, arrested for drink driving and charged. A doctor was called to take blood samples and urine. His reading was presumably through the roof. He being a belligerent arsehole must have been a nightmare to deal with. Later he claimed he'd been assaulted by the guards, he conveniently got amnesia about what happened that night. He started complaining about his ribs, called himself an ambulance and got seen to. Nothing wrong with him.

He is continually blaming my mother for instigating it. He blames her, he blames his drinking buddy for letting him drive, he blames the guards for beating him up. Everyone else to blame but himself. He told my mother he cried. A manipulative prick to the end. He knows his driving days and his scouting are now over. With any luck he will be off the road for number of years. And it's his own fault.

He warned my mother she'd better be gone if he get's charged, yet another threat. She stayed with me for a few nights to get away. While collecting her he was confronted, warned that if he threatened her again he would be reported to the Guards. He arrogantly told me to fcuk off, that his threat was a promise, that my mother was a liar, that he was a goddamn genius and would beat all of us up and down when it came to intelligence. I could have throttled him there and then to be honest. My telling him it was certainly a genius move to drive drunk, and he wouldn't long be seeing the consequences drove him nuts. My mother pushed me out of the house. She said she didn't want me implicated by getting violent with him. I recorded it on my phone, he doesn't know he was previously recorded.

When I dropped my mother back home, he saw us there and was as quiet as a mouse. I left and the next day, he feigned surprise that she was back, he must now be pretending to have early onset dementia. And he said he had so much peace when she was away that he'd even written a song!

And yet still she will live with him, still she will put up with it, her confidence to stand up for herself stripped away over years of abuse. Nothing will ever change despite all of the above. No matter how many variations of telling her that he is toxic, and toxic people need to be dealt with by not dealing with them it is never sufficient. We've pleaded with her to get a divorce. She won't. Nothing more we can do to our continued frustrations. She has been threatened by him and won't even take it seriously. It just boggles the mind why she endures it.

Widdershins

professore wrote: »

Well a murderer isn't a murderer all the time either ... that would wear you out. How about someone that's like that none of the time?

It's kinda funny too that a lot of these "hard men" run away like scared children when someone their own size stands up to them. So the radar for "tough" is often way off.

And another thing ... is this all somehow connected with this 50 shades thing?

Again the woman won't clock that he is a coward for a while.

It might be a touch of that, women looking for someone who can dominate them. What someone else said about it being under control seems about right. But the streets aren't exactly awash with that kind of man and the woman might not have registered that she's looking for/craving it.

Bambi985

professore wrote: »

For clarity I am not referring to women who are stuck for financial or other reasons. I'm referring to single women who knowingly get into a relationship and stay with men like this who have plenty of options. There are men with Cray Cray women but these women tend to be hot and the stupid guy puts up with the **** because of this. Just wondering if these women are doing the same thing

Probably for the same reason that some perfectly normal and decent men end up with abusive women, because they don't know what they're walking to until it's too late and or are bringing their own set up fcuked up pathologies to the table.

It's always easy from the outside to see that someone is a worthless piece of crap, or that a woman is gorgeous and could have any man, but things from the inside often look a lot different. The guy wears a "charming guy" mask long enough to suck a woman in, or she doesn't have the self-esteem to see that she's got options. Or he's not the big bad monster that the rest of us and has redeeming qualities that keep her at the table or manipulative techniques that make sure she never leaves.

Don't discount chemistry either. And I don't just mean the sexual stuff. Sometimes someone makes you laugh or makes you feel loved or special in a way that no-one else has, and you'll overlook or forgive a multitude of bad behaviours because you don't think you'll find someone that makes you feel that way again. Relationships are weird man.

ArchXStanton

jonnny68 wrote: »

Fu*k me that's one of the saddest stories ove read on here mate you have my complete sympathy here.

Alcoholism is a Hell of a thing..

GingerLily

professore wrote: »

I never ever met a guy who went after a woman who was known beforehand as an abusive bitch. I've seen plenty of guys get in relationships wth them not knowing what they were getting into and being slowly ground down. This happens to women too. This is not what I'm talking about though.

I've heard of plenty of men who go out with crazy and abusive women because the sex is good or go with control freaks because they are attractive, you literally hear about it all the time....

professore

GingerLily wrote: »

professore wrote: »

I never ever met a guy who went after a woman who was known beforehand as an abusive bitch. I've seen plenty of guys get in relationships wth them not knowing what they were getting into and being slowly ground down. This happens to women too. This is not what I'm talking about though.

I've heard of plenty of men who go out with crazy and abusive women because the sex is good or go with control freaks because they are attractive, you literally hear about it all the time....

Yeah but they don't generally marry them and stay with them their whole lives. It's a fun phase. It's not the same thing. The closest thing I can think of for men are those into dominatrixes.

GingerLily

professore wrote: »

Yeah but they don't generally marry them and stay with them their whole lives. It's a fun phase. It's not the same thing.

But THEY do?
You seem to dismiss everything that doesn't suit your argument....

Bambi985

Way to kill a thread chore sex/PUA guy

dresden8

People love violent abusive types. They are so powerful and life affirming, in control.

Then get surprised when the violence/abuse is turned on them.

professore

GingerLily wrote: »

professore wrote: »

Yeah but they don't generally marry them and stay with them their whole lives. It's a fun phase. It's not the same thing.

But THEY do?
You seem to dismiss everything that doesn't suit your argument....

I don't know any personally. I don't have any peer reviewed statistics on it. I'm not dismissing you. You could be right, I just don't think so from what I've seen.

professore

dresden8 wrote: »

People love violent abusive types. They are so powerful and life affirming, in control.

Then get surprised when the violence/abuse is turned on them.

I certainly don't, I think they are weak people. Why not go in the ring and prove to everyone how brave they really are?

s7ryf3925pivug

You're describing codependency. My personal observation is that it is equally common in men and women. I did a quick search for studies. It does seem to be commonly assumed to be a mainly female issue, and one paper showed an association between it and 'negative female stereotypical traits'. I only saw one paper which compared how common it was between men and women. It found that the most extreme forms of it were actually more frequently found in men, not women.

GingerLily

professore wrote: »

I certainly don't, I think they are weak people. Why not go in the ring and prove to everyone how brave they really are?

Like Floyd Mayweather?

I don't think you know anything about this topic.....

Hector Savage

valoren wrote: »

I see it with my own parents, both in their late 60's now. My dad is an alcohol addict. He has been in a serious denial about it since I can remember.

He is a narcissistic arsehole of the highest order, yet my mother still stays with him to this day to our frustration.

Down through the years he has;

Been arrested twice for drink driving....within the same month in the early 80's. She did nothing.
Has thrown a punch at my mother during a drunken argument when we were kids around the same time. Still nothing.

Left the home without notice, when my brother was an infant, and moved to England after he got a government grant ostensibly to set up a business but spent it on a drinking sabbatical in England. He effectively abandoned the family with 3 kids aged 6, 4 and 4 weeks old. He came home after 9 months, when the funds had run out and pretended like nothing happened. Still my Mother took him back.

He fell asleep while badly hungover, while supposed to be minding my brother, aged 2, in 1986 who managed to open the front door and managed to walk to our Aunt's house just over a mile away. It's a miracle nothing bad happened. We live in a suburb.

He has fallen out with his entire family over the years. He has 6 brothers and 1 sister who love him as a brother but simply have no time for him. He is regarded as a nuisance who has to be tolerated by my mother's family, avoided where possible.

Has lost countless jobs through the years, through indifference, by falling out with people there, by being unreliable, by showing up late, hungover etc.

In 1993, he asked me for a 'loan' of £20 after I made my confirmation, aged 12, which I refused. He had no cash and was planning to go to the pub. I was 12 and knew exactly what he wanted it for.

In 1997, he was involved in the setting up and coaching of an underage soccer team and on a trip to England was drinking and had to be sent home by the Committee. He was supervising children while pissed as a fart and they needed to do what needed to be done.

He still regularly drove through the years while pissed drunk and thankfully never hurt or killed anybody.
Has been arrested twice for drunk and disorderly behaviour and spent the night in jail in the early 00's

Whenever he had a sizeable amount of cash, he would go on two week benders that would involve staying until closing time and getting up early, driving the car to the early morning pubs and wash, rinse repeat until the money was gone.

He has gotten violent with me on numerous occasions when I called him out on his drinking, he has thrown punches at me and I've thrown punches back purely because of his drinking and the trouble it has caused.

After another serious bender in 1996, he committed himself to a psychiatric ward in Cork (St Anne's). He stayed for 4 days until they realized there was actually nothing wrong with him mentally. In hindsight, it was pure deflection from him, he claimed he was being driven mental by my mother. If anyone asked questions so to speak, he could blame my mother. And not his drinking addiction. Still nothing changed. Still she stayed by his side despite appeals from us as teenagers to do herself a favor and get rid of him.

In 1999, after winning a settlement of £12,000 spent 7 months drunk every day until the money ran out. The country was going through a building boom, he was a qualified, talented welder and he was instead in the boozer. Work was beneath him.

In 2003, pissed on whiskey, after he tried to take a swing with a golf club at my younger brother, 19 at the time, who had angrily spoken out against his drinking. I literally had to throw him out of the front door and slam it shut on him.

In 2004, Christmas Day, he had been drinking daily for a month beforehand, we weren't talking, it was a toxic atmosphere and we went to visit relatives graves as we usually did, we came home to find a fire was lighting in the backyard. He drunkenly claimed it must have been arson, but we knew it was him. And it was his way of getting attention. The fire was next to the oil tank and if we hadn't spotted it who knows what might have happened.

Christmas Day 2006, pissed on Whiskey, I had to restrain him from driving around to look for an open garage or shop for more booze and had to hide his keys, he passed out asleep soon after thankfully.

He has a litany of empty naggins of whiskey and vodka badly hidden around the house.

He again moved out of home in 2009, complaining that our mother was driving him mental and stayed in a dingy bedsit for 6 months, but returned reluctantly because our mother was frightened living on her own. He has ever since effectively been a lodger in the home. He contributes nothing to the upkeep of the house, bills etc. He is constantly abusive towards her, shouting at her and belittling her as being stupid.

He has twice been drunkenly abusive towards my wife before and while she was pregnant at family events. We nearly came to blows......again.

He has most recently, last October, been in a scuffle with Iarnrod Eireann staff in Heuston Station and had to be restrained and escorted off the train after giving racist abuse towards a Polish security guard after he had drunkenly jumped the queue and jumped over a barrier to board the train. He spent the night in a cell to sleep off the drink.

And despite all that. It is my mother who has brainwashed us against him. She has the problem with drink. We have the problem, not him. In a pure contradiction, while he claims my mother is thick stupid, she still has the intelligence and cunning to manipulate 3 grown men. Pointing this out to him makes him hit the roof. He knows I am intolerant of his behavior, that I understand his manipulation and abuse, he knows I wipe the floor with him and he threatens violence when called out.

In his deluded head, he isn't an alcoholic. He is just being a social drinker, and likes a drink. It would make you laugh if it weren't so serious. Yet, people would think butter wouldn't melt, that he's a lovely man unaware of the toxic reality. Before Christmas, he said he was going to slit my mother's throat as she was driving him mental. He was completely sober. She is on anti-depressants for the past number of years over him, again pointing this out to him merely results in shouting and roaring from him.

He's not laughing now. He is now in very serious trouble, more below. And yet my mother will still stay with him. He at the age of 69 now realizes what he wants to do with his life. He wants to be a football scout. He paid the bones of a thousand euro for a course certificate from England. On New Years Eve, he was complaining about the heating being turned off by my mother. He'd have it on all day if he could, but he doesn't hand over a penny. He left the house the following day, in a huff to stay to stay with a drinking buddy. He was driving, and he bought a bottle of whiskey. He rang me, drunk, to inform me he was going about a divorce. We would need to talk to my mother and arrange a nursing home for her as she was gone crazy. He was on the brink of killing her the night before he said. I called him out, read him the riot act about his behaviour and he hit the roof, cursing and insulting me. I was a blue shirt preacher, an idiot and a stupid muppet etc. I recorded the message if required by the guards, he makes a threat 8 times.

Later that night he drove, he rang my brother and said he was going to end it all by driving into the local cemetery wall. He wanted to be buried there after crashing. He was looking for attention, later he was caught at a check point, arrested for drink driving and charged. A doctor was called to take blood samples and urine. His reading was presumably through the roof. He being a belligerent arsehole must have been a nightmare to deal with. Later he claimed he'd been assaulted by the guards, he conveniently got amnesia about what happened that night. He started complaining about his ribs, called himself an ambulance and got seen to. Nothing wrong with him.

He is continually blaming my mother for instigating it. He blames her, he blames his drinking buddy for letting him drive, he blames the guards for beating him up. Everyone else to blame but himself. He told my mother he cried. A manipulative prick to the end. He knows his driving days and his scouting are now over. With any luck he will be off the road for number of years. And it's his own fault.

He warned my mother she'd better be gone if he get's charged, yet another threat. She stayed with me for a few nights to get away. While collecting her he was confronted, warned that if he threatened her again he would be reported to the Guards. He arrogantly told me to fcuk off, that his threat was a promise, that my mother was a liar, that he was a goddamn genius and would beat all of us up and down when it came to intelligence. I could have throttled him there and then to be honest. My telling him it was certainly a genius move to drive drunk, and he wouldn't long be seeing the consequences drove him nuts. My mother pushed me out of the house. She said she didn't want me implicated by getting violent with him. I recorded it on my phone, he doesn't know he was previously recorded.

When I dropped my mother back home, he saw us there and was as quiet as a mouse. I left and the next day, he feigned surprise that she was back, he must now be pretending to have early onset dementia. And he said he had so much peace when she was away that he'd even written a song!

And yet still she will live with him, still she will put up with it, her confidence to stand up for herself stripped away over years of abuse. Nothing will ever change despite all of the above. No matter how many variations of telling her that he is toxic, and toxic people need to be dealt with by not dealing with them it is never sufficient. We've pleaded with her to get a divorce. She won't. Nothing more we can do to our continued frustrations. She has been threatened by him and won't even take it seriously. It just boggles the mind why she endures it.

Wow ... what a post.
Your Mam must be a saint.

Fair play for putting up with him and having the patience not to lash out.

Keep strong.

Hector Savage

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Alcoholism is a Hell of a thing..

It really is, and not taken seriously enough as a society.
There is still way too much of a blaise (sp?) attitude to drink here.

dresden8

dresden8 wrote: »

People love violent abusive types. They are so powerful and life affirming, in control.

Then get surprised when the violence/abuse is turned on them.

I don't think people realize how common violence within relationships is. There is this expectation that violence will very rarely come from the female, but studies show that reciprocal violence is far more common than the public thinks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2941364/
[Nonreciprocal and Reciprocal Dating Violence and Injury Occurrence among Urban Youth]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
[Differences in Frequency of Violence and Reported Injury Between Relationships With Reciprocal and Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence]

These studies concern Youth relationships, but it suggests that a lot of people are familiar with violence within relationships by the time they reach adulthood.

Widdershins

It might help when society stops laughing at depictions of wives shutting husbands up and being the boss, putting them in their place or girls punching boys they don’t like or boys who are in the wrong.

ArchXStanton

Hector Savage wrote: »

It really is, and not taken seriously enough as a society.
There is still way too much of a blaise (sp?) attitude to drink here.

Absolutely,alcohol dependency and alcoholism are rife here,sure he's only fond of a drink...Alcoholics rarely think or act rationally

DaeryssaOne

My own opinion is that a lot of time it's simply a pure lack of self-respect on the part of the victim. They don't believe (probably subconsciously) that they deserve any better than someone who will end up emotionally / physically abusing them.

It's incredibly sad but it's hard to drill into someone that they should have more self-confidence and self-belief if they have grown up thinking the opposite.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

professore wrote: »

Yeah but they don't generally marry them and stay with them their whole lives. It's a fun phase. It's not the same thing. The closest thing I can think of for men are those into dominatrixes.

You'd want to take a look at the relationship and personal issues forums, there are loads of men in those relationships long term.

And I'd imagine the range of reasons are basically the same. Low-self esteem/gluttons for punishment; feeling like the other person can be fixed; self-destructive impulses; it's the model of relationships you saw growing up or one you got into early (people really underestimate how hard those patterns can be to see and break when you're the one in them); the partner starts off either nice as pie to everyone or a bit of a dick/bitch to everyone else and nice to them, which for a lonely person can be overwhelmingly attractive and then things degenerate. And plenty more.

Like most things to do with human relationships it's not something with one simple answer.

Or I dunno, women are horny dumbos.

bobsman

My ex was so sweet at the beginning. When we became closer, more intimate, he changed. I could see it but chose to ignore it.

He would be loving one day, distant the next and so on.

Small things like, I went away for a break with my kids and he would text to see how we got on and even when we got back. Sounds small but these little things were a common occurrence.

Every tiny breadcrumb of affection, I'd lap up.

One day, he told me he was in love with me, etc.etc. Following day, a messaged saying he was done with the whole thing, no more contact.

Looking back, he was an emotional abuser.

Mezzanotte

I think what is actually baffling the OP is why do very attractive women choose such men who can clearly be seen to be degenerates befoee entering relationships with them.

The answer is simple, attraction. That feeling that gives them butterflies in their stomach and tingles further south. Quite simply these men have powerfully attractive qualities to many women, they simply don't give a fukc, they are fearlessly genuine, edgy with a hint of danger. Bottomline they are arousing.

Such women will often backwards rationalise why they are so drawn to such men. For example if they can find any evudence of a kind heart, even if it is 0.001% of their personality they will say he has such a kind heart under it all, that's what draws them. In reality that is bollox , it's the tingles

bobsman

Mezzanotte wrote: »

I think what is actually baffling the OP is why do very attractive women choose such men who can clearly be seen to be degenerates befoee entering relationships with them.

The answer is simple, attraction. That feeling that gives them butterflies in their stomach and tingles further south. Quite simply these men have powerfully attractive qualities to many women, they simply don't give a fukc, they are fearlessly genuine, edgy with a hint of danger. Bottomline they are arousing.

Such women will often backwards rationalise why they are so drawn to such men. For example if they can find any evudence of a kind heart, even if it is 0.001% of their personality they will say he has such a kind heart under it all, that's what draws them. In reality that is bollox , it's the tingles

Spot on. It is addictive, the tingles.

Reality, he is an utter self obsessed dick.