6N Tournament 2018 (non-Irish TT)

swiwi_

To discuss our friends and foes hailing from

England
France
Alba
Cymru
Italia

Please be so kind as to leave Irish team talk to the Irish thread

Will the English juggernaut continue?
Can Brunel enact a miracle for the French?
Are Scotland really quite decent after all? Or was autumn a false dawn?
Could Wales poop the party?
Italy - sigh?

Reading in the Guardian yesterday and there is a real concern that the malaise being felt at Champions cup level could filter through to the national team.

They pointed to the fact that Saracens won two years on the trot whilst being a primary supplier of talent to the English team who similarly won 2 six nations.

Will be interesting to see what mind tricks the Italians have for them on opening weekend.

Scotland barely have a front row and weather permitting I reckon France, England and Ireland will scrum them into submission.

France an unknown entity. I expect their work rate and intensity to be through the roof in round 1 and after that fails to break down an organised Ireland they will gradually fall back into their shell culminating in a home defeat to Italy.

Buer

Scotland had no scrum last year and it didn't work out too well for us

The 6N after a Lions tour is always a bit of a funny one. France generally have a good opportunity but I can't see them threatening to win the title. I reckon anyone who wins 3 games could be in with a shout this time around.

Scotland have France at home in round 2 before hosting England in round 3. If they get some confidence and momentum from a win in round 2, they're going to be in with a real chance of upsetting the English in Edinburgh.

With the Welsh injury problems, Scotland are never going to get a better chance of winning in Cardiff on the opening day but I still reckon Wales have enough to scrape a tight win.

France? Honestly, who knows. They'll give it a crack at the start and if we beat them, I expect them to fold.

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

Scotland had no scrum last year and it didn't work out too well for us

The 6N after a Lions tour is always a bit of a funny one. France generally have a good opportunity but I can't see them threatening to win the title. I reckon anyone who wins 3 games could be in with a shout this time around.

Scotland have France at home in round 2 before hosting England in round 3. If they get some confidence and momentum from a win in round 2, they're going to be in with a real chance of upsetting the English in Edinburgh.

With the Welsh injury problems, Scotland are never going to get a better chance of winning in Cardiff on the opening day but I still reckon Wales have enough to scrape a tight win.

France? Honestly, who knows. They'll give it a crack at the start and if we beat them, I expect them to fold.

Even if we beat them, they'd still be in with a shout of winning the championship. I doubt they'd be throwing their hands up in the air after one defeat.

Edit: Last year they were beaten by England in the opening fixture, then by us in the third round and still finished by beating Wales.

errlloyd

Scotland squad named, I think the story is probably that Laidlaw isn't captain. Price is probably their number 1 Scrum Half now anyway.

I think there's an image there but I can't see it, is Laidlaw in the squad? He's injured at the moment anyway I think.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Mariah Creamy Succotash wrote: »

I think there's an image there but I can't see it, is Laidlaw in the squad? He's injured at the moment anyway I think.

Yeah he is in the squad

errlloyd

Mariah Creamy Succotash wrote: »

I think there's an image there but I can't see it, is Laidlaw in the squad? He's injured at the moment anyway I think.

Can you see it now? The original didn't work so I got a different source.

Awesomeness

Squidgy Black

Mariah Creamy Succotash wrote: »

I think there's an image there but I can't see it, is Laidlaw in the squad? He's injured at the moment anyway I think.

Still injured but apparently should be due back just before the first test.

Hasn't played since October though so I'm sure Price will be the starter.

Clegg

Faletau isn't expected to play in the first few rounds iirc.

Fairly middling group of tight five forwards there as well.

thomond2006

Scotland are screwed at prop. It could completely undermine their chances. The BBC mention 7 props who are unavailable for the opener against Wales.

I wouldn't like to see Ireland without McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Ryan, Porter and Archer.

Dog Botherer

England don't really have a backrow, and the vast majority of their players are in poor form.

Wales don't have a backrow or back three, and their pack in general is very so-so.

Scotland don't have a scrum, but otherwise look strong.

Italy are still in a building process, could sneak a win like in most years but a bit early for Conor O'Shea's lads this year.

France haven't a clue. With any other team, that would be good news. But it's France, so we'll either put 40 on them or they'll put 40 on us. Who knows.

Ireland look strong all around the park, and are relatively injury free. We should be looking to win this.

MDunne14

Dog Botherer wrote: »

England don't really have a backrow, and the vast majority of their players are in poor form.

Wales don't have a backrow or back three, and their pack in general is very so-so.

Scotland don't have a scrum, but otherwise look strong.

Italy are still in a building process, could sneak a win like in most years but a bit early for Conor O'Shea's lads this year.

France haven't a clue. With any other team, that would be good news. But it's France, so we'll either put 40 on them or they'll put 40 on us. Who knows.

Ireland look strong all around the park, and are relatively injury free. We should be looking to win this.

Wales don’t have a back row? Come on mate navidi , tipuric , moriarty , falateau, Davies are all quality players , back 3 should be ok Liam Williams ,halfpenny, josh Adams looks good , Amos , north if fit

sydthebeat

France might play dupoint and Belleau as their half backs,... Two exciting but young and inexperienced players. If we play a choking game against them they may crack under the pressure of not being able to influence the game. VDF to start then, with POM and Stander.

razorblunt

Don’t know what’s happened in Glasgow but Zander Faqerson has been set right up. As per his Twitter.

Gutted to be injured. Will be interesting to see how the Scotland team goes without me at the beginning of the 6 nations

Dog Botherer

MDunne14 wrote: »

Wales don’t have a back row? Come on mate navidi , tipuric , moriarty , falateau, Davies are all quality players , back 3 should be ok Liam Williams ,halfpenny, josh Adams looks good , Amos , north if fit

Faletau is injured, Moriarty is only back from injury, Tipuric is grand but after that they're seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel of mediocrity. Back 3 is similar, Halfpenny's form has gone off a cliff, Liam Williams is only back from injury a few days, North is permacrocked, Amos is still injured. Could well see a back 3 of Cuthbert, Scott Williams, and Halfpenny, with some young lad on the bench.

I stand by my statement.

prawnsambo

razorblunt wrote: »

Don’t know what’s happened in Glasgow but Zander Faqerson has been set right up. As per his Twitter.

Not sure what you mean.

Fagerson dropped a weights bench on his foot. Out for six weeks.

irishbucsfan

razorblunt wrote: »

Don’t know what’s happened in Glasgow but Zander Faqerson has been set right up. As per his Twitter.

Ali Price is almost certainly responsible

MDunne14

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Faletau is injured, Moriarty is only back from injury, Tipuric is grand but after that they're seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel of mediocrity. Back 3 is similar, Halfpenny's form has gone off a cliff, Liam Williams is only back from injury a few days, North is permacrocked, Amos is still injured. Could well see a back 3 of Cuthbert, Scott Williams, and Halfpenny, with some young lad on the bench.

I stand by my statement.

Tipuric is grand? He’s a far better player than vdf and leavy not to mention the job James Davies did on sob and Munster last year in semi and final,

Back 3 will be Liam Williams , halfpenny and Adams , to think Scott Williams would play there shows ur knowledge really.. compare that to Irish back 3 , halfpenny > Kearney , Williams > earls and then stockdale and whoever

Yeah_Right

MDunne14 wrote: »

Tipuric is grand? He’s a far better player than vdf and leavy not to mention the job James Davies did on sob and Munster last year in semi and final,

Back 3 will be Liam Williams , halfpenny and Adams , to think Scott Williams would play there shows ur knowledge really.. compare that to Irish back 3 , halfpenny > Kearney , Williams > earls and then stockdale and whoever

Liam Williams is a good player but he's also a hothead. Good chance he does something stupid that costs his team points. Halfpenny is a shell of the player he was and I never thought he was that good. He was a poor man's RK but he could kick goals.

Amos, Adams, Cuthbert. Meh.

Dog Botherer

MDunne14 wrote: »

Tipuric is grand? He’s a far better player than vdf and leavy not to mention the job James Davies did on sob and Munster last year in semi and final,

Back 3 will be Liam Williams , halfpenny and Adams , to think Scott Williams would play there shows ur knowledge really.. compare that to Irish back 3 , halfpenny > Kearney , Williams > earls and then stockdale and whoever

Leavy and VDF are at least as good as Tipuric on current form, if not better. James Davies is good but Gatland won't pick him. His loss.

Scott Williams is one of the few fit outside backs left in Wales, so yeah, there's a very decent chance he could play there. Not that I think Gatland would want to, but he might not have much choice.

Halfpenny is not better than Kearney on current form. He's playing like a drain and isn't even kicking his goals. Williams has been injured for months, Earls is in cracking form and is far less likely to make a game defining brain dead decision. Stockdale will more than likely be the other wing and unless Wales have somehow healed Raka of his injuries and given him a Welsh passport there isn't a wing in Europe better than Stockdale right now.

razorblunt

prawnsambo wrote: »

Not sure what you mean.

Fagerson dropped a weights bench on his foot. Out for six weeks.

It's not exactly the most humble of tweets, makes it look like he's a one man superstar.
My point was that he's obviously fallen into a Zebo on the Lions Tour type forfeit or left his phone unlocked.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ali Price is almost certainly responsible

Yep! Gave him self away by replying too quickly.
Clever though, it's got that uncanny valley - this might be real vibe off it.

prawnsambo

razorblunt wrote: »

It's not exactly the most humble of tweets, makes it look like he's a one man superstar.
My point was that he's obviously fallen into a Zebo on the Lions Tour type forfeit or left his phone unlocked.

I think it was some kind of forfeit

MDunne14

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Leavy and VDF are at least as good as Tipuric on current form, if not better. James Davies is good but Gatland won't pick him. His loss.

Scott Williams is one of the few fit outside backs left in Wales, so yeah, there's a very decent chance he could play there. Not that I think Gatland would want to, but he might not have much choice.

Halfpenny is not better than Kearney on current form. He's playing like a drain and isn't even kicking his goals. Williams has been injured for months, Earls is in cracking form and is far less likely to make a game defining brain dead decision. Stockdale will more than likely be the other wing and unless Wales have somehow healed Raka of his injuries and given him a Welsh passport there isn't a wing in Europe better than Stockdale right now.

If vdf and leavy are better than tipuric why weren’t they on two lions tours?? Well gatland picked Davies in the squad so unless you’ve got inside knowledge he might pick him ,

On current form? Kearney can’t even get a start for Leinster at the moment and at least halfpenny can kick and offer something unlike Kearney ... Williams was injured yes but so has earls and again Williams was in nz while earls was playing for the shags against Japan , stockdale is a cracking player but it’s his first 6n can’t expect him to do everything ... Williams will almost certainly be 13 , I’d say there’s more chance of me playing on the wing as they have 3/4 fit wingers

MDunne14

MDunne14 wrote: »

Tipuric is grand? He’s a far better player than vdf and leavy not to mention the job James Davies did on sob and Munster last year in semi and final,

Back 3 will be Liam Williams , halfpenny and Adams , to think Scott Williams would play there shows ur knowledge really.. compare that to Irish back 3 , halfpenny > Kearney , Williams > earls and then stockdale and whoever

Not having falateau didn’t stop Wales smashing us last year in Cardiff it’d be stupid to right them off because they’ve a few carrying knocks

MDunne14

MDunne14 wrote: »

Not having falateau didn’t stop Wales smashing us last year in Cardiff it’d be stupid to right them off because they’ve a few carrying knocks

I haven't read all the posts but I'd be surprised if anyone is writing them off. However with a weakened squad and a lot of new combinations the likelihood is that they will show up for 1 or 2 big games at home but otherwise struggle for consistency over the tournament. Some of their first choice options are top class but the depth isn't there and no team is going to get through the tournament without a few knocks ruling lads out. That's where the problems really start.

It's unfortunate that the games they tend to really get up for are against us. I don't think it will matter this year, we will smash them on our way to the Grand Slam.

prawnsambo

MDunne14 wrote: »

If vdf and leavy are better than tipuric why weren’t they on two lions tours??

Age and experience? Leavy is 23 and JVdF is 24. In 2013, Leavy was 19 and JVdF was 20. In 2017 Leavy had less than half an hour of international rugby and Josh Van der Flier had seven caps to his name. Also both are currently behind SOB and POM in an Ireland context and both of those players went on the Lions tour in 2017.

prawnsambo

Eddie Jones has just signed a contract extension until August 2021.

Yeah_Right

prawnsambo wrote: »

Age and experience? Leavy is 23 and JVdF is 24. In 2013, Leavy was 19 and JVdF was 20. In 2017 Leavy had less than half an hour of international rugby and Josh Van der Flier had seven caps to his name. Also both are currently behind SOB and POM in an Ireland context and both of those players went on the Lions tour in 2017.

You reply was much more civilised than mine was going to be. I had to check their ages because I was wondering if they were still in high school in 2013. I see they weren't but had they played a game of professional rugby?

prawnsambo

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You reply was much more civilised than mine was going to be. I had to check their ages because I was wondering if they were still in high school in 2013. I see they weren't but had they played a game of professional rugby?

No, they hadn't. Both had their first starts for Leinster in late 2014. At the start of the 2014/15 season.

razorblunt

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think it was some kind of forfeit

Good stuff, he caught a lot of bites on it.
John Hardie in particular it would seem.

Squidgy Black

French Squad:

BASTAREAUD Mathieu (RC Toulon)
BELLEAU Anthony (RC Toulon)
BEN AROUS Eddy (Racing 92)
CAMARA Yacouba (Montpellier HR)
CHAT Camille (Racing 92)
CHAVANCY Henry (Racing 92)
DOUMAYROU Geoffrey (Stade Rochelais)
DULIN Brice (Racing 92)
DUPONT Antoine (Stade Toulousain)
FALL Benjamin (Montpellier HR)
GABRILLAGUES Paul (Stade Français Paris)
GOMES SA Cedate (Racing 92)
GOURDON Kevin (Stade Rochelais)
GUIRADO Guihem (RC Toulon)
ITURRIA Arthur (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
JALIBERT Matthieu (Union Bordeaux-Bègles)
JELONCH Anthony (Castres Olympique)
LAMBEY Félix (Lyon OU)
LAMERAT Rémi (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
LAURET Wenceslas (Racing 92)
MACALOU Sekou (Stade Français Paris)
MACHENAUD Maxime (Racing 92)
PALIS Geoffrey (Castres Olympique)
PARRA Morgan (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
POIROT Jefferson (Union Bordeaux-Bègles)
PRISO Dany (Stade Rochelais)
SLIMANI Rabah (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
TAULEIGNE Marco (Union Bordeaux-Bègles)
THOMAS Teddy (Racing 92)
TOLOFUA Christopher (Saracens RFC)
VAHAAMAHINA Sébastien (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
VAKATAWA Virimi (Racing 92)

sydthebeat

no trinh-duc

errlloyd

sydthebeat wrote: »

no trinh-duc

Or Tales

Of the two outhalves, one has 2 caps and the other 0.

Doesn't seem to be an out and out number 8 either.

stephen_n

prawnsambo wrote: »

Age and experience? Leavy is 23 and JVdF is 24. In 2013, Leavy was 19 and JVdF was 20. In 2017 Leavy had less than half an hour of international rugby and Josh Van der Flier had seven caps to his name. Also both are currently behind SOB and POM in an Ireland context and both of those players went on the Lions tour in 2017.

Facts, facts and damn context hey!

sydthebeat

errlloyd wrote: »

Or Tales

Of the two outhalves, one has 2 caps and the other 0.

Doesn't seem to be an out and out number 8 either.

average age of half backs (without parra) is 20

errlloyd

sydthebeat wrote: »

average age of half backs (without parra) is 20

Machenaud is 29 though, he's only a month younger than Parra.

razorblunt

Bastareud won't even be issued training gear.
His order has already been discarded!

Fickou has been told not to plan any weekends off I'd say.


(Yes, I just grabbed Fickou's name out of nowhere).

MDunne14

prawnsambo wrote: »

Age and experience? Leavy is 23 and JVdF is 24. In 2013, Leavy was 19 and JVdF was 20. In 2017 Leavy had less than half an hour of international rugby and Josh Van der Flier had seven caps to his name. Also both are currently behind SOB and POM in an Ireland context and both of those players went on the Lions tour in 2017.

Tipuric is a far better 7 than either of leavy or jvdf and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get their heads out and start watching other games than Leinster ones

Buer

That French squad does not strike fear into me at all. The fact it is relatively experimental yet only 5 players are from La Rochelle and Montpellier combined underlines the lack of available quality at the top end of the T14.

sydthebeat

errlloyd wrote: »

Machenaud is 29 though, he's only a month younger than Parra.

ah i hadnt copped him, though it was just dupont and parra !!

so a parra / belleau paring then to start...

interesting to see how they fill the 21 / 22 shirts

Bazzo

Just noticed Serin didn't make the cut either... He's impressed me any time I've seen him.

Squidgy Black

Bazzo wrote: »

Just noticed Serin didn't make the cut either... He's impressed me any time I've seen him.

Machenaud and Parra were always going to be selected ahead of Serin, and Dupont seems to be the favourite at the moment, played against Italy in last years 6n and started two of their AIs.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

French Squad:

BASTAREAUD Mathieu (RC Toulon)
BELLEAU Anthony (RC Toulon)
BEN AROUS Eddy (Racing 92)
CAMARA Yacouba (Montpellier HR)
CHAT Camille (Racing 92)
CHAVANCY Henry (Racing 92)
DOUMAYROU Geoffrey (Stade Rochelais)
DULIN Brice (Racing 92)
DUPONT Antoine (Stade Toulousain)
FALL Benjamin (Montpellier HR)
GABRILLAGUES Paul (Stade Français Paris)
GOMES SA Cedate (Racing 92)
GOURDON Kevin (Stade Rochelais)
GUIRADO Guihem (RC Toulon)
ITURRIA Arthur (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
JALIBERT Matthieu (Union Bordeaux-Bègles)
JELONCH Anthony (Castres Olympique)
LAMBEY Félix (Lyon OU)
LAMERAT Rémi (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
LAURET Wenceslas (Racing 92)
MACALOU Sekou (Stade Français Paris)
MACHENAUD Maxime (Racing 92)
PALIS Geoffrey (Castres Olympique)
PARRA Morgan (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
POIROT Jefferson (Union Bordeaux-Bègles)
PRISO Dany (Stade Rochelais)
SLIMANI Rabah (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
TAULEIGNE Marco (Union Bordeaux-Bègles)
THOMAS Teddy (Racing 92)
TOLOFUA Christopher (Saracens RFC)
VAHAAMAHINA Sébastien (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
VAKATAWA Virimi (Racing 92)

Who are the two outhalves?!

JALIBERT Matthieu is the uncapped

Clegg

A lot of France's most experienced players have let the side down in recent years so changing up the squad makes sense. Having said that, leaving Picamoles out entirely is utter lunacy. Still a monster ball carrier. Unless he's injured of course and if that's the case never mind.

The Pheasant2

Anybody slightly more au fait with the Top14 wanna hazard a go at a France 23?

Squidgy Black

BASTAREAUD Mathieu (RC Toulon) - Centre 42 caps
BELLEAU Anthony (RC Toulon) - Fly half 2 caps
BEN AROUS Eddy (Racing 92) - Prop 18 caps
CAMARA Yacouba (Montpellier HR) - Back Row 6 caps
CHAT Camille (Racing 92) - Hooker 10 caps
CHAVANCY Henry (Racing 92) - Centre 3 caps
DOUMAYROU Geoffrey (Stade Rochelais) - Centre 3 caps
DULIN Brice (Racing 92) - Back Three 29 caps
DUPONT Antoine (Stade Toulousain) - Scrumhalf 6 caps
FALL Benjamin (Montpellier HR) - Back Three 6 caps
GABRILLAGUES Paul (Stade Français Paris) - 2nd Row 1 cap
GOMES SA Cedate (Racing 92) - Prop 0 cap
GOURDON Kevin (Stade Rochelais) - Backrow 15 caps
GUIRADO Guihem (RC Toulon) - Hooker 56 caps
ITURRIA Arthur (ASM Clermont Auvergne) - 2nd Row 1 cap
JALIBERT Matthieu (Union Bordeaux-Bègles) - Fly half 0 caps
JELONCH Anthony (Castres Olympique) - Backrow 2 caps
LAMBEY Félix (Lyon OU) - 2nd row 0 caps
LAMERAT Rémi (ASM Clermont Auvergne) - Centre 16 caps
LAURET Wenceslas (Racing 92) - Backrow 12 caps
MACALOU Sekou (Stade Français Paris) - Backrow 1 cap
MACHENAUD Maxime (Racing 92) - Scrumhalf 31 caps
PALIS Geoffrey (Castres Olympique) - Back three 0 caps
PARRA Morgan (ASM Clermont Auvergne) - Scrum Half 66 caps
POIROT Jefferson (Union Bordeaux-Bègles) - Prop 14 caps
PRISO Dany (Stade Rochelais) - Prop 0 caps
SLIMANI Rabah (ASM Clermont Auvergne) - Prop 41 caps
TAULEIGNE Marco (Union Bordeaux-Bègles) - Backrow 0 caps
THOMAS Teddy (Racing 92) - Back three 8 caps
TOLOFUA Christopher (Saracens RFC) - Hooker 7 caps
VAHAAMAHINA Sébastien (ASM Clermont Auvergne) - 2nd row 28 caps
VAKATAWA Virimi (Racing 92) - Back three/ centre - 15 caps

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Who are the two outhalves?!

JALIBERT Matthieu is the uncapped

BELLEAU Anthony (RC Toulon)

stephen_n

I’m amazed Para only has 66 caps, feels like he’s be around forever.

Squidgy Black

Clegg wrote: »

A lot of France's most experienced players have let the side down in recent years so changing up the squad makes sense. Having said that, leaving Picamoles out entirely is utter lunacy. Still a monster ball carrier. Unless he's injured of course and if that's the case never mind.

A lot of French aren't surprised at Picamoles exclusion, he's been fairly quiet in the Top14 this year, and Tauleigne played under Brunel for Bordeaux.