Please hold on, the bus is about to move

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

I support the idea of having stop names there but the rest of stuff is unnecessary.

It's generally far too long winded. I do think passengers should be told to exit at the middle doors on the SG/GT class as it has not yet entered some people to exit at the middle doors.

But the whole 'Please exit bus at centre doors, ramp exit only at front door' followed by As Gaelige is far too long winded. All other announcements other than stops are unessecary.

_Kaiser_

Stephen15 wrote: »

It's generally far too long winded. I do think passengers should be told to exit at the middle doors on the SG/GT class as it has not yet entered some people to exit at the middle doors.

Are they actually being used by drivers more often than not now so that it'd be the expected norm - I'm guessing not.

Also having a fleet where a significant percentage of the vehicles were (stupidly - especially in the case of the tri-axle VT's) bought with single doors doesn't help adoption.

Stephen15

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Are they actually being used by drivers more often than not now so that it'd be the expected norm - I'm guessing not.

Also having a fleet where a significant percentage of the vehicles were (stupidly - especially in the case of the tri-axle VT's) bought with single doors doesn't help adoption.

Because the GT/SG buses were bought by the NTA not DB and it's one of the things they want. All the rest of the DB fleet were bought by DB and DB don't want dual door buses due to potential litigation issues and similar union issues that's why the older buses don't have dual doors because DB don't want them and retrofitting them would be too expensive.

Anyway all the single door buses will be withdrawn or moved to tours etc. in the next 5-7 years I would imagine so it they will no longer be an issue. The thing is though most of the older DB owned single door buses are currently used on the local routes which will tendered out to GAD these routes are generally quieter and don't require the extra door at most times. These routes will have newer the GTs and SGs aswell the single deckers ordered by the NTA for them meaning that the older buses may end up on busy core cross city routes due to DB having newer buses from their fleet removed. I'd rather an AX or an EV on the 63 or the 111 than on the 145 or the 46a.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

These routes will have newer the GTs and SGs aswell the single deckers ordered by the NTA for them meaning that the older buses may end up on busy core cross city routes due to DB having newer buses from their fleet removed. I'd rather an AX or an EV on the 63 or the 111 than on the 145 or the 46a.

Not going to happen because every single bus that is transferred to Go-Ahead which will be a mix of ages from 2012-2017 is going to be replaced in the Dublin Bus fleet with a brand new 2018 SG.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Not going to happen because every single bus that is transferred to Go-Ahead which will be a mix of ages from 2012-2017 is going to be replaced in the Dublin Bus fleet with a brand new 2018 SG.

So where will the older buses end up

Cookie_Monster

So when are they going to add the announcement for the bus braking? No sense in having just accel notices....
does it make the same notice pulling off from light etc or just stops?

punisher5112

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So when are they going to add the announcement for the bus braking? No sense in having just accel notices....
does it make the same notice pulling off from light etc or just stops?

Why is it that anyone thinks this is the right way to go.

Most have headphones on and even if they don't they are so busy on their phone they don't have a clue what's going on around them. This includes any sounds as they so fixed on their phone.

If people are getting a bus they should unless they are extremely dim or thicker then ever know it's going to actually have to move to get them to their destination but it will unfortunately have to slow, stop, turn and so on.


Once a passenger boards a bus they accept all terms and this also includes the company bye-laws.

NUTLEY BOY

hmmm wrote: »

All these automated announcements are doing is making public transport even more unpleasant.

And confusing. I still hear that if I get off the DART at Dun Laoghaire I can connect to ferry services.

Also, on a visual level, I was on a DART before Christmas where the indicator board showed that we were going in the opposite direction. Heaven help the tourists.

punisher5112

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

And confusing. I still hear that if I get off the DART at Dun Laoghaire I can connect to ferry services.

And for your safety this train has cc...... Misses TV at the end.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

punisher5112

Fred Swanson wrote: »

There is no need for the route number/name after each stop.

I would disagree as so many do actually get on as they look at the rtpi board and just board any bus that pulls in.

NUTLEY BOY

I will have to dig out one of my old law books on tort. I am almost sure that I read English case law to say that the driver of an "omnibus" is not under a duty to warn passengers before moving off.

At a practical level what do passengers actually expect reasonably ? The nature of buses, especially double-deckers, is such that erratic movements are wholly to be expected when taking off from and landing in to a bus stop. That is why Dublin Bus announcements and messages about holding on to rails whilst moving through the bus are actually very helpful.

Passengers have responsibilities too. I love the ones who still insist on reading their mobile screens whilst skating through the bus and who then look like off-balance staggering drunks when the bus moves off :rolleyes:

As a matter of driving practice I have noticed that most Dublin Bus drivers are quite attentive to NOT moving off whilst obviously infirm people are still moving towards a seat. That is not easy at rush-hour where visibility down the bus can be limited (even allowing for the on-board CCTV).

Cookie_Monster

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why is it that anyone thinks this is the right way to go.

oh, I don't at all. It's ridiculous.

Cookie_Monster

punisher5112 wrote: »

I would disagree as so many do actually get on as they look at the rtpi board and just board any bus that pulls in.

Then idiots like that deserve to end up in some random housing estate and not where they wanted to go. How basic is it to actually check the front of the bus pulling up?!?

punisher5112

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Then idiots like that deserve to end up in some random housing estate and not where they wanted to go. How basic is it to actually check the front of the bus pulling up?!?

They tend to have a go at the driver I have come across it numerous times.

AlekSmart

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Were raising a generation (which I'm embarrassed to be a member of) where a large section (thankfully, contrary to myth, not the majority) protest the mere notion of someone with an opinion they disagree with having the right to speak on their campus. Where in the social media sphere there is no longer such a thing as a good faith disagreement, everyone who does not agree with you is automatically the lowest form of puerile sc-m and a bad person. We live in a world where kids are told not to run on the playground because of insurance claims, where there have to be actual signs in a train bathroom saying "don't leave your infant unattended on the changing table" , where there are "no hitting back" policies in schools and the idea of "be careful and watch where you are going" has been replaced by "i have a right to compensation based on a sliding scale any time I have an accident". Thankfully we havn't got the participation trophy's here yet but I'm sure they're on the way.

We've taken the very reasonable idea that we should be more considerate of other peoples feelings, mental health etc and gone so far to the extreme with it that there are some who want to wrap the world in bubble wrap.

"Hold the handrails" should be common sense. I agree the acceleration is pretty extreme when you are going up those stairs but if you hold the rail you'll be ok. It used to be that busses and trains didn't have enough but since the train refits and new busses there are plenty of hand rails to grip.

If were getting into the territory of "hold on the bus is about to move" we may as well go the full whack:
"wipe your runny nose"
"don't forget to brush your teeth"
"remember to eat carbohydrates with every meal"
"get your flu shot"
"do not cross the road until the green man shows"
"do not leave your toddler alone with a lighter"

I'm all for a welfare state, I'd go full on Scandinavian, but can we not have a nanny state? please?

Thankfully XPS_Zero,your views on "Common Sense" relating to boarding double deck buses in Dublin is strongly endorsed and upheld by the Court of Appeal.....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-who-fell-after-dublin-bus-moved-off-before-she-sat-down-loses-claim-35269376.html

A unanimous verdict of the CoA laid down some significant precedence markers for this kind of stuff.

It was "utterly unreasonable and unrealistic" to impose a duty of care requiring Dublin Bus drivers to check passengers are securely in their seats before driving off, Mr Justice Michael Peart said.

To require the driver not to drive away until he was satisfied Ms McGarr had reached the top of the stairs would impose an “impossible” standard of care that “completely ignores the realities of modern day bus travel”.

Dublin Bus was also entitled to assume “common knowledge” that buses, because of their sheer size and the volumes of traffic they typically travel in the city, “tend to sway and lurch a bit”, even when driven with great care, he said.

People know this, and know they need to hold onto the rails provided when standing on either of the decks or moving around, he said.

Good man Judge Peart,a bit of balance,figuratively or otherwise, never hurt anybody.

In this particular case,the Court also had the benefit of comprehensive CCTV evidence which flatly contradicted the claimant's version of events...

Drivers are required to take “reasonable care” and the evidence in this case, including from CCTV footage, was the driver did not move forward in any abrupt, sudden or violent manner, he said.

The Busdriver,in this case,also benefitted from the skill and dexterity of other passengers......

Mr Justice Peart said he and the other members of the court had viewed the CCTV footage carefully and agreed with the High Court findings. The footage showed, at the time Ms McGarr fell, a male passenger continued to drink undisturbed from a can, :eek: he noted.

Either way,a Court of Appeal decision on a High Court judgement,is a slam-dunk in terms of the levels of proof required for future claims in this area...;)

john boye

Quote:
Mr Justice Peart said he and the other members of the court had viewed the CCTV footage carefully and agreed with the High Court findings. The footage showed, at the time Ms McGarr fell, a male passenger continued to drink undisturbed from a can, he noted.

I'll bet he didn't spill a drop either!

NUTLEY BOY

Link to McGarr judgment ;

http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IECA/2016/CA366.html

magentis

devnull wrote: »

Clearly you are not talking about Dublin as dwell time in Dublin is the highest by far of any capital city I have been in, especially in the city center where it is chronic.

Besides it's not going to add any more time on in London anyway in regards to dwell time since the announcements are not playing until AFTER the bus has started moving.

So you feel that the dwell time allowed on the timetable is excessive for Dublin bus routes then?

devnull

magentis wrote: »

So you feel that the dwell time allowed on the timetable is excessive for Dublin bus routes then?

Yes - because in Europe dwell time is normally far less than it is in Dublin - less dwell time equals a cheaper to run bus service since a bus can complete a route in a quicker amount of time, which will attract more people to public transport.

One of my commuting legs was previously O'Connell Street to Ballsbridge and half the journey time was waiting at bus stops for minutes at a time for everyone to get on and off.

magentis

devnull wrote: »

Yes - because in Europe dwell time is normally far less than it is in Dublin - less dwell time equals a cheaper to run bus service since a bus can complete a route in a quicker amount of time, which will attract more people to public transport.

One of my commuting legs was previously O'Connell Street to Ballsbridge and half the journey time was waiting at bus stops for minutes at a time for everyone to get on and off.

You should really read my post again.

magentis

Actually no.Clearly if it was a double decker belonged to a private company it would be far more efficient and people would disembark far more quicker.Thus needing no dwell time at all factored into the timetable.Coz dem private companies be far more efficient ya see.

devnull

magentis wrote: »

You should really read my post again.

I'm simply stating that a bus that has less dwell time will complete it's route from one terminus to another and that will attract more people to public transport - I don't think there is anything particularly surprising about faster transport leads to more customers.

Whether there is dwell time allowed in the timetable or not really doesn't matter - it still doesn't take away from the fact that dwell times are huge in Dublin when you compare it with other cities and reducing the dwell time will make it quicker to travel by bus which will make it more attractive to prospective users.

The reason dwell time is so long in Dublin is because of the fare, ticketing and boarding system and the lack of using two doors at all times and having the environment to make the most of that.

sdanseo

This is nonsense. RTPI, now that was an innovation, silent and convenient. Not noisy and inconvenient. 95% of people on the bus know exaclty where they are and what's going on.

Anyone who's unable to hold a handrail or is visually impaired should be in a priority seat.

Anyone who needs assistance when their stop is approaching should be able to ask the driver who can announce their stop. Used to happen regularly when I was a bus commuter for school (way back in the 00's)

No need for all this incredibly annoying crap. More wrapping of the masses in cotton wool for no reason whatsoever, to most people's annoyance and at the taxpayer's expense.

magentis wrote: »

Actually no.Clearly if it was a double decker belonged to a private company it would be far more efficient and people would disembark far more quicker.Thus needing no dwell time at all factored into the timetable.Coz dem private companies be far more efficient ya see.

Dublin Bus is a private company, and the only part of CIÉ left which is profitable. Most of its inefficienies are caused by the unions who have management by the short and curlies.

Stephen15

magentis wrote: »

Actually no.Clearly if it was a double decker belonged to a private company it would be far more efficient and people would disembark far more quicker.Thus needing no dwell time at all factored into the timetable.Coz dem private companies be far more efficient ya see.

No Aircoach, Swords Express, GoBus and Dublin Coach all have similar if not longer dwell times than DB. Private companies would likely have one door buses to reduce liability as they are more profit driven and likely do not have the same amount of financial and legal support as the CIE group of companies. Remember one claim may put a private company out of business it won't put DB or any CIE company out of business.

magentis

devnull wrote: »

I'm simply stating that a bus that has less dwell time will complete it's route from one terminus to another and that will attract more people to public transport - I don't think there is anything particularly surprising about faster transport leads to more customers.

Whether there is dwell time allowed in the timetable or not really doesn't matter - it still doesn't take away from the fact that dwell times are huge in Dublin when you compare it with other cities and reducing the dwell time will make it quicker to travel by bus which will make it more attractive to prospective users.

The reason dwell time is so long in Dublin is because of the fare, ticketing and boarding system and the lack of using two doors at all times and having the environment to make the most of that.

I'm with you 100%,indeed it will complete the journey quicker with less dwell time.But sadly it would appear people like to sit at the rear of the top deck of an empty bus.Nothing at all really operators can do about that.And the time it takes to empty a full dd is ridiculous.

But my point is that this time is not factored into the timetable,neither is the time it takes to load a large number of passengers onto a bus.Leading to busses running late.Leading to unrealistic targets for a driver and frustrated passengers.

magentis

Stephen15 wrote: »

No Aircoach, Swords Express, GoBus and Dublin Coach all have similar if not longer dwell times than DB. Private companies would likely have one door buses to reduce liability as they are more profit driven and likely do not have the same amount of financial and legal support as the CIE group of companies. Remember one claim may put a private company out of business it won't put DB or any CIE company out of business.

I have noticed that it takes much longer too for a coach to empty of 40-50 passengers than a dd.Clearly the steps and narrower walkway is the reason.But I have noticed there appears to be a little time allocated for this in their timetables,whereas DB and BE have none.

devnull

magentis wrote: »

I have noticed that it takes much longer too for a coach to empty of 40-50 passengers than a dd.Clearly the steps and narrower walkway is the reason.But I have noticed there appears to be a little time allocated for this in their timetables,whereas DB and BE have none.

Difference is though a coach that is connecting places that can include airports and different towns and cities is going to carry a lot more luggage and will have narrower doorways as you say and smaller walkway.

A city bus service is a totally different kettle of fish, but lets be honest, whilst the current fare and operating structure on city bus services remains dwell time is always going to be chronic and far higher than our cousins in Europe.

magentis

devnull wrote: »

Difference is though a coach that is connecting places that can include airports and different towns and cities is going to carry a lot more luggage and will have narrower doorways as you say and smaller walkway.

A city bus service is a totally different kettle of fish, but lets be honest, whilst the current fare and operating structure on city bus services remains dwell time is always going to be chronic and far higher than our cousins in Europe.

As was pointed out to me by pm we have dwell time and recovery time.Why is dwell time here so much longer than in other countries?

And why is there reluctance to factor it into the timetable?It's unfathomable that where verified data shows that on a given route at a certain time there is ingress of say 30 passengers and egress of 40 at a particular stop compared to another with 10% of those figures yet the same time is allocated for the same distance.

devnull

magentis wrote: »

As was pointed out to me by pm we have dwell time and recovery time.Why is dwell time here so much longer than in other countries?

The reason dwell time is so long in Dublin is because of the fare, ticketing and boarding system, driver interaction and the lack of using multiple doors at all times and having the environment to make the most of those kind of things.

And why is there reluctance to factor it into the timetable?It's unfathomable that where verified data shows that on a given route at a certain time there is ingress of say 30 passengers and egress of 40 at a particular stop compared to another with 10% of those figures yet the same time is allocated for the same distance.

Whether dwell time is factored into the timetable or not, the longer it is, the slower a bus takes to complete a journey and the longer the journey takes the less attractive public transport is.

I'm looking at this from a customer point of view.