Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Hande hoche!

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That suggestion by trump of arming teachers is by far one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. What happens if a teacher has a bad night/weekend at home with their wife/husband/ partner and comes to school in a bad mood ? I means lads let's be honest here, this gun control issue will never be sorted out.

In fairness, one of the audience at the event mentioned that. Seems like a non starter of an idea. Changing the age at which a person can buy an AR 15 seems more viable.

Peregrinus

everlast75 wrote: »

No wedding ring either...

Trump has never worn a wedding ring. Surprisingly for a man who is so fond of bling in other contexts, he never wears any jewelry.

everlast75

Peregrinus wrote: »

Trump has never worn a wedding ring. Surprisingly for a man who is so fond of bling in other contexts, he never wears any jewelry.

Oh really? Probably is a turn off for the ladies when he tries to grab them by the...

Panrich

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That suggestion by trump of arming teachers is by far one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. What happens if a teacher has a bad night/weekend at home with their wife/husband/ partner and comes to school in a bad mood ? I means lads let's be honest here, this gun control issue will never be sorted out.

Easy Trumpish solution available. The kids will be armed to protect them from the teachers.

jooksavage

Hande hoche! wrote: »

In fairness, one of the audience at the event mentioned that. Seems like a non starter of an idea. Changing the age at which a person can buy an AR 15 seems more viable.

That's the least they can do. As a shooter myself, I don't understand a certain contingent of Americans' obsession with high-powered, military-grade weaponry. If they do insist on owning this junk they should be subject to, at the very least, the kind of licensing system we have here. If they're put off by a chat with the local superintendent and are too impatient to wait for a license to be issued, they have no business with that kind of equipment.

aloyisious

I was wondering about the 2nd amendment wording on the right to keep and bear arms and it's relevance to a well-regulated militia as none of the murderous assaults were carried out by a member of a well regulated militia. The USSC, in 2008, ruled on a stated case on Washington DC's law on firearms: District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm UNCONNECTED WITH SERVICE IN A MILITIA FOR TRADITIONALLY LAWFUL PURPOSES, SUCH AS SELF DEFENSE WITHIN THE HOME, and that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee.

The result is that there is NO obligation on persons keeping and bearing firearms in connection with a well regulated militia, as was part in the original 2nd amendment wording, due to the circumstances in the US way back then.

Ash.J.Williams

Peregrinus wrote: »

Is that a laundry mark on his shirt cuff? It seems far too cryptic to be another aide-memoire.

omg it's his illuminatti membership ID

Gbear

There's so many layers to the stupidity of arming teachers.

I wonder do the people who make these suggestions actually ever think about anything they do, or is their whole life a sort of madcap stream of conscious roller coaster.

I wonder how a septugenarian 4'11 maths teacher lady will handle a lunatic storming into her class with an assault rifle.
Presumably she'll use her sweet deadeye skills and cap that fool.:rolleyes:

I wonder how many more students and other staff would be killed in accidents, teacher meltdowns or from kids getting their hands on the weapons.
In truth, given the size of the US, spree shootings, much less school shootings, are pretty rare events and in the grand scheme of things, don't kill that many people.
Massively increasing the number of guns in schools would surely be far more deadly.

Of course, there's also the fact that teachers sign up because they love kids or they value the job in society, or whatever, but few enough sign up to shoot people in the face.

I rather suspect there's not a great deal off crossover between teachers and people you want shooting other people.

The Republicans truly are dreadful, awful, horrific lunatics.
Say what you want about the Democrats, say that they're in the pockets of corporations or what have you, but they are at least capable of trying to implement policy to improve society and doing in it in a way that uses reason and logic, even if they have blind spots and don't do it as often as you'd like.

There are so many ways Trump and the Republicans could be tackling this issue even without anything other than the most basic, common sense limits on who can buy guns, from the drug war to the prison system, but they seem to go out of their way to prevent anything that might improve the situation.

They're the party of cutting their nose off to spite their face. That is the drive behind everything they do. It doesn't matter what hole society sinks into, so long as they can thumb their nose at people they don't like.

Christy42

Will his proposed bump stock ban go into place? I can only hope some half decent suggestion gets through after all this horror as that is a good one.

Leroy42

I'm cynical at this point, but this seems different. The youth seem to be actioned on this. I think the right, and NRA, know this has the potential to become serious, hence why they are attacking the 'spokespeople' for the schoolkids.

Crisis actors, only doing what they're parents are telling them, not showing enough respect. Each of these is almost the opposite of the other, and the crisis actor, I mean as the guy himself said after his performance in the school play ain't nobody paying him to act. And how easy would it be to prove this guy was an actor. I mean, are you telling me the anti-gun lobby planted this kid, and one assumes one in every school, on the basis that someday something might happen, and then when it does they won't get killed?

Its very telling that they have started attacking their own fellow citizens, even more so the ones that have just been involved in an act of terror.

spacecoyote

Christy42 wrote: »

Will his proposed bump stock ban go into place? I can only hope some half decent suggestion gets through after all this horror as that is a good one.

My question is...why ask Jess Sessions to look into it? Trumpy loves a good old fashioned Exec Order, so if he really wants the law changed why not just do it & own the decision?

Or does this fall outside the remit of an exec order?

spacecoyote

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'm cynical at this point, but this seems different. The youth seem to be actioned on this. I think the right, and NRA, know this has the potential to become serious, hence why they are attacking the 'spokespeople' for the schoolkids.

Crisis actors, only doing what they're parents are telling them, not showing enough respect. Each of these is almost the opposite of the other, and the crisis actor, I mean as the guy himself said after his performance in the school play ain't nobody paying him to act. And how easy would it be to prove this guy was an actor. I mean, are you telling me the anti-gun lobby planted this kid, and one assumes one in every school, on the basis that someday something might happen, and then when it does they won't get killed?

Its very telling that they have started attacking their own fellow citizens, even more so the ones that have just been involved in an act of terror.

Seems to be the primary tactic employed by them though. Having an argument you know won't go your way. point the finger elsewhere & try change the narrative.

Unfortunately it works far too easily for them most of the time.

Zubeneschamali

I saw one teacher state that if the Government were to arm teachers at his school, they would get to share one pistol in a locked drawer with no ammunition, and no-one would know where the key was.

Leroy42

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I saw one teacher state that if the Government were to arm teachers at his school, they would get to share one pistol in a locked drawer with no ammunition, and no-one would know where the key was.

That is the other issue. Who is going to pay for all of this? Trump seems to be implying that teachers already have guns and so would use their own. Maybe in some cases, but why would they not charge extra for the service?

Education in the US has been underperforming for many years. They need extra investment to increase the standards. Now all of a sudden they wil have the money to fund a gun buying program, training courses, ongoing marksmenship courses etc?

Wanderer78

come on now lads, are we actually starting to entertain this idea?:eek:

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is the other issue. Who is going to pay for all of this? Trump seems to be implying that teachers already have guns and so would use their own. Maybe in some cases, but why would they not charge extra for the service?

Education in the US has been underperforming for many years. They need extra investment to increase the standards. Now all of a sudden they wil have the money to fund a gun buying program, training courses, ongoing marksmenship courses etc?

Trump thinks the answer is to arm teachers. The NRA would be very happy to step in and run this project. The NRA gave 30 million to Trump's campaign.

None of these facts are related.

Leroy42

Wanderer78 wrote: »

come on now lads, are we actually starting to entertain this idea?:eek:

One must assume, that since POTUS has said it, it is being actively considered within the WH.

The alternative is that Trump simply stated this up on the spot, without any prior information or understanding of the implications.

That's fine for me to come on and spout any auld idea I can think of, but this is POTUS, on camera.

I am not sure which of these two alternatives is more scary.

robinph

... or you just start your spree with the teacher you know has the gun.

...or what happens if the shooting starts and gun toting teacher has a room full of students? Do they abandon those kids and go off on a mission around the school to take out the shooter? Do they guard that room of students and then shoot at the SWAT guys when they enter the room, or get shot themselves when SWAT enter because they are then the person with a gun holding hostages?

The plan is just so many types of stupid it's unbelievable that people have these ideas enter their heads.

Itssoeasy

Shock horror the president has tweeted today that he didn't say yesterday to arm teachers. He is saying that the fake news media of CNN and NBC are wrong. This is despite the fact the man said it on live tv. This is the way it goes with trump though. He will say something that seems like a reasonable proposal(arming teachers aside) and everyone in the media is positive about it and then it appears the president is told that's a bad idea and pulls back.

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

One must assume, that since POTUS has said it, it is being actively considered within the WH.

The alternative is that Trump simply stated this up on the spot, without any prior information or understanding of the implications.

That's fine for me to come on and spout any auld idea I can think of, but this is POTUS, on camera.

I am not sure which of these two alternatives is more scary.

The Secretary of Education, DeVos, is also open to the idea.

Wanderer78

Leroy42 wrote: »

One must assume, that since POTUS has said it, it is being actively considered within the WH.

The alternative is that Trump simply stated this up on the spot, without any prior information or understanding of the implications.

That's fine for me to come on and spout any auld idea I can think of, but this is POTUS, on camera.

I am not sure which of these two alternatives is more scary.

some good points there, but i think we to have a part to play in this debate, in that, when something idiotic like this is mentioned by an administration, its up to us to just simply say 'no', and to force them to come up with another solution. this is actually very disturbing to watch unfold, i truly feel for the people of america, but i guess in a good way, a positive to take from it is, this is how not to run your country!

Leroy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump thinks the answer is to arm teachers. The NRA would be very happy to step in and run this project. The NRA gave 30 million to Trump's campaign.

None of these facts are related.

According to the National Centre for Education Statistics https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=84 in 2014 there was around 140k schools the US, with 5.3m students and 441k teachers.

Lets pick one teacher per school. Cost of gun, on going mental assesements, training days etc. Let's budget $1000 per annum. That is $140m per annum.

But that is not going to be nearly enough, as some of these schools are pretty large so one teacher will not be enough (what is they are off sick?)

So what 2, 3 teachers? So we can easily get up to 500m per annum. NO way the NRA can afford to pay that

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

One must assume, that since POTUS has said it, it is being actively considered within the WH

There's your first mistake

Ash.J.Williams

Should teachers prioritise education or combat training, which will be more important?

Christy42

spacecoyote wrote: »

My question is...why ask Jess Sessions to look into it? Trumpy loves a good old fashioned Exec Order, so if he really wants the law changed why not just do it & own the decision?

Or does this fall outside the remit of an exec order?

Ah I had thought it an order. Not a look into it.

I am just desperately trying to find a ray of light in this. Banning bump stocks is hardly a major step but it would be significant if NRA bought republicans did it and might show that future success is possible.

Wanderer78

Leroy42 wrote: »

According to the National Centre for Education Statistics https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=84 in 2014 there was around 140k schools the US, with 5.3m students and 441k teachers.

Lets pick one teacher per school. Cost of gun, on going mental assesements, training days etc. Let's budget $1000 per annum. That is $140m per annum.

But that is not going to be nearly enough, as some of these schools are pretty large so one teacher will not be enough (what is they are off sick?)

So what 2, 3 teachers? So we can easily get up to 500m per annum. NO way the NRA can afford to pay that

the nra wouldnt have to pay, the people of america would pay, its the american way, the real american dream:rolleyes:

looksee

Trump has just gone into another twitter fest using words like 'sicko' to express his presidential opinions. He has decided, in much the same way he decided a wall was the ideal solution to...something...that arming teachers is the way to go.

Hurrache

looksee wrote: »

..that arming teachers is the way to go.

He claims he never said give teachers guns, but that he did say that guns should be given to teachers. That's basically his argument today.

CelticRambler

Leroy42 wrote: »

But that is not going to be nearly enough, as some of these schools are pretty large so one teacher will not be enough (what is they are off sick?)

So what 2, 3 teachers? So we can easily get up to 500m per annum. NO way the NRA can afford to pay that

20% of the teachers should be "weapons talented" according to DT.

Twenty Percent! :eek:

Then he goes on History shows us that a school shooting lasts, on average, 3 minutes ... Highly trained, gun adept, teachers/coaches would solve the problem instantly.

There speaks someone who has no concept of the real world, and obviously didn't listen to the eyewitness reports from last week, when both students and teachers said they reacted with puzzlement and confusion, because they'd already had their fire drill that morning, or because they thought it was other students messing about.

Trevor Noah has the best take on this utterly bonkers suggestion:
https://youtu.be/ZQcaYYHqrUY?t=1m36s

Sonics2k

CelticRambler wrote: »

20% of the teachers should be "weapons talented" according to DT.

Twenty Percent! :eek:

Then he goes on History shows us that a school shooting lasts, on average, 3 minutes ... Highly trained, gun adept, teachers/coaches would solve the problem instantly.

There speaks someone who has no concept of the real world, and obviously didn't listen to the eyewitness reports from last week, when both students and teachers said they reacted with puzzlement and confusion, because they'd already had their fire drill that morning, or because they thought it was other students messing about.

Trevor Noah has the best take on this utterly bonkers suggestion:
https://youtu.be/ZQcaYYHqrUY?t=1m36s

For reference, there's about 4 million public school teachers in the USA. So that's about 800,000 armed teachers he's looking for.

Sure teachers are well known for never ever having any form of mental breakdown on the job.