Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Christy42

everlast75 wrote: »

Deflect deflect deflect. That is and always has been the strategy so as to avoid the serious problem that America has guns. The usual line is

"let's not politicise the shooting of these poor people. Now is not the time to talk about gun control. Thoughts and prayers etc"

Ah now had it been an immigrant shooting people I guarantee Trump would have been all over this (anyone denying that fact is having a laugh, the US has had enough incidents to show this).

Professor Moriarty

jooksavage wrote: »

He's been on Twitter making claims about the mental instability of the school shooter. Seems to be implying that classmates and neighbors had failed to report him even though they "knew he was a big problem". Report him for what? He's being described as a lonely, rude, awkward, racist oddball with a disturbing Instagram account. The school already expelled him. What are "the authorities" supposed to have done about him?

Here's The Donald's tweet:

So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

So its the neighbours and classmates fault. Discussion over.

VonZan

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here's The Donald's tweet:

So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

So its the neighbours and classmates fault. Discussion over.

It’s known already that the shooter was reported to authorities. I’m not sure if this is actually a dig at the FBI but who knows with Trump.

Itssoeasy

Listening to trump ramble on in his speech was like a junior b footballer after a night on the beer trying to kick a point.

Professor Moriarty

VonZan wrote: »

It’s known already that the shooter was reported to authorities. I’m not sure if this is actually a dig at the FBI but who knows with Trump.

Well, obviously it's nothing to do with the proliferation of weapons, especially assault rifles, and certainly nothing at all to do with the NRA. More cold and self-serving 'look over there' nonsense from The Donald.

Call me Al

VonZan wrote: »

It’s known already that the shooter was reported to authorities. I’m not sure if this is actually a dig at the FBI but who knows with Trump.

Maybe Trump was talking to his own supporters in a local white supremacist militia. Its leader now says the shooter was a member...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-white-nationalist-republic-of-florida/

jooksavage

robinph wrote: »

Not letting him or anyone else have such easy access to a gun would be a start.

Except this is the same president who rolled back restrictions aimed at limiting access to guns for people with mental illnesses.

weisses

As much as I dislike Trump, this is not an issue that is his fault ..... It's an American problem that hasn't been dealt with by any previous president/administration ....

jooksavage

weisses wrote: »

As much as I dislike Trump, this is not an issue that is his fault ..... It's an American problem that hasn't been dealt with by any previous president/administration ....

Not true.

Clinton imposed an assault weapons ban that lapsed under the Bush administration. There's nothing preventing Trump from sponsoring a similar ban except his total enthrallment to the gun lobby.

Exactly 12 months ago, Trump himself reversed a measure imposed by Obama's administration designed to keep guns out of the hands of people with severe mental illnesses.

Igotadose

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here's The Donald's tweet:

So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

So its the neighbours and classmates fault. Discussion over.

Even better - let's make everyone report their neighbors to the authorities. Then, they'll need more authorities! Great for government spending. And, a dictatorship definitely wants you to trust the government for everything.

Question authority, before it, questions you.

Peregrinus

weisses wrote: »

As much as I dislike Trump, this is not an issue that is his fault ..... It's an American problem that hasn't been dealt with by any previous president/administration ....

jooksavage wrote: »

Not true.

Clinton imposed an assault weapons ban that lapsed under the Bush administration . . .

And Obama worked hard to try and introduce more gun control after the Sandy Hook massacre. His efforts were not successful - a Republican-controlled Congress refused to act - and he was reviled for them from the right wing. He was able to do a certain amount through executive measures (which don't require congressional approval), but Trump has been dismantling that.

jooksavage

Sounds like Mueller is about to flip Rick Gates. If he does, Manafort will surely be next - I can't see him holding out to face decades of jailtime to insulate Trump. If Manafort flips, Kushner and Don Jr. are in deep sh**. Mueller appears at least to be living up to his reputation as shrewd, deliberate investigator.

froog

the NRA did some job on america.

froog

jooksavage wrote: »

Sounds like Mueller is about to flip Rick Gates. If he does, Manafort will surely be next - I can't see him holding out to face decades of jailtime to insulate Trump. If Manafort flips, Kushner and Don Jr. are in deep sh**. Mueller appears at least to be living up to his reputation as shrewd, deliberate investigator.

apparently bannon has been talking to mueller for some 20 hours this last few weeks. can't be anything good for trump.

weisses

jooksavage wrote: »

Not true.

Clinton imposed an assault weapons ban that lapsed under the Bush administration. There's nothing preventing Trump from sponsoring a similar ban except his total enthrallment to the gun lobby.

Exactly 12 months ago, Trump himself reversed a measure imposed by Obama's administration designed to keep guns out of the hands of people with severe mental illnesses.

My point is that Presidents by themselves cannot solve this ...They can steer into a certain direction but that's about it ...Before Trump there was 8 years of Obama and there were still mass shootings

The country is sick its political system is sick

ECO_Mental

weisses wrote: »

Before Trump there was 8 years of Obama and there were still mass shootings

Obama tried plenty of times to get things done with Gun control, it was actually his biggest regret he dint get anything significant done with this.

The Republicans lets be honest here are to blame, they were in full control of the house and Senate in the majority of Obama's terms. If these spineless politicians didn't do anything after Sandy Hook where 20, six and seven year old kids (practically babies) were shot to death then there is no hope for America. The NRA have a lot to answer to as well...how that worm LaPierre gets a nights sleep is beyond me.

Whats really F**ked up as well the GOP/NRA with all their talk on being big on terrorism etc will not agree that anybody who is on a watch list be immediately banned form getting a gun......can you believe that:mad:

Christy42

weisses wrote: »

My point is that Presidents by themselves cannot solve this ...They can steer into a certain direction but that's about it ...Before Trump there was 8 years of Obama and there were still mass shootings

The country is sick its political system is sick

Indeed there were massive issues with this. The difference is that I see someone trying to make a difference in one period and one actively reversing any (minor admittedly) benefits the other one managed to do. Which do you think is better? Trump most certainly can't stop this. Especially with the Republicans having so much power but it would be nice to see him have a go instead of generic sympathy message.

UsedToWait

Christy42 wrote: »

Trump most certainly can't stop this. Especially with the Republicans having so much power but it would be nice to see him have a go instead of generic sympathy message.

Why would he go against the organisation who spent $30m on pro Trump / anti Hillary propaganda?

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-nra-politicians-20180215-story.html

weisses

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Obama tried plenty of times to get things done with Gun control, it was actually his biggest regret he dint get anything significant done with this.

The Republicans lets be honest here are to blame, they were in full control of the house and Senate in the majority of Obama's terms. If these spineless politicians didn't do anything after Sandy Hook where 20, six and seven year old kids (practically babies) were shot to death then there is no hope for America. The NRA have a lot to answer to as well...how that worm LaPierre gets a nights sleep is beyond me.

Whats really F**ked up as well the GOP/NRA with all their talk on being big on terrorism etc will not agree that anybody who is on a watch list be immediately banned form getting a gun......can you believe that:mad:

The point is that as a president you are pretty much powerless no matter what side of the aisle you are on ... the things tried by Obama did not make any difference ..but at least he tried If the american people are not willing to turn their back on the GOP regarding this issue absolutely nothing will change ... Lobbying only works when you are in office ....

Igotadose

Well, in this week's Apprentice: WH edition, Friday closes with *yet another* paid off extramarital affair while POTUS was married to the FLOTUS. This time, the ex-Playboy Bunny mistress, was paid off by National Enquirer. They bought her story then didn't publish it. However, their agreement is nearing it's expiration date, and she hasn't renewed, so a tell-all might be upcoming. The family values POTUS will of course deny and sicc his sons on her via Twitter. Stay tuned next week for another week of chaos.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/donald-trump-a-playboy-model-and-a-system-for-concealing-infidelity-national-enquirer-karen-mcdougal

In more serious news, Tillerson's in the Middle East meeting with leaders who aren't sure why they're wasting time with him.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/middleeast/ben-wedeman-rex-tillerson-mideast-intl/index.html

demfad

NRA have payed over 24 GOP over a million Dollars,

Rubio(R) Fla., got $3,303,355.00 (Received from NRA)

Rubio: "Florida Sen. Marco Rubio on gun control debate after Parkland school shooting: "I'm trying to be clear and honest here, someone who has decided to commit this crime, they will find a way to get the gun to do it."

These are NRA talking points. The massacre happened in his own State. Is there a word for this?

(Others: McCain $7,740,521.00
Richard Burr(R) got $6,986,620.00
Rob Portman got $3,061,941.00
Thom Tillis (R) NC got $4,418,021.00
Todd Young (R) IN $2,896,732.00
Trump campaign received over $30 million from the NRA.)

everlast75

demfad wrote: »

NRA have payed over 24 GOP over a million Dollars,

Rubio(R) Fla., got $3,303,355.00 (Received from NRA)

Rubio: "Florida Sen. Marco Rubio on gun control debate after Parkland school shooting: "I'm trying to be clear and honest here, someone who has decided to commit this crime, they will find a way to get the gun to do it."

These are NRA talking points. The massacre happened in his own State. Is there a word for this?

(Others: McCain $7,740,521.00
Richard Burr(R) got $6,986,620.00
Rob Portman got $3,061,941.00
Thom Tillis (R) NC got $4,418,021.00
Todd Young (R) IN $2,896,732.00
Trump campaign received over $30 million from the NRA.)

In the interests of balance, here is a link to all donations to both parties.
Interesting to see that over time, with the exception of about 4 years in and around 2010, the percentage for Dems has fallen significantly

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=d000000082&cycle=2014

jooksavage

weisses wrote: »

The point is that as a president you are pretty much powerless no matter what side of the aisle you are on ... the things tried by Obama did not make any difference ..but at least he tried If the american people are not willing to turn their back on the GOP regarding this issue absolutely nothing will change ... Lobbying only works when you are in office ....

I think that's somewhat letting Trump off the hook. His party holds sway in congress and the Senate. He's in a unique position to bring about substantial reform and he's squandering it.

Water John

As some one pointed out the last night, this young fellow couldn't legally buy a drink in Florida but he could buy an assault rifle.
Some of these right wing supporters are very anti abortion but seem to have little problem with children being killed.

Overheal

Water John wrote: »

As some one pointed out the last night, this young fellow couldn't legally buy a drink in Florida but he could buy an assault rifle.
Some of these right wing supporters are very anti abortion but seem to have little problem with children being killed.

Not to mention the shooter was born an orphan apparently. Adopted at an early age anyway.

recedite

Overheal wrote: »

Not to mention the shooter was born an orphan apparently. Adopted at an early age anyway.

Abort all orphans! Let God sort 'em out.

mcmoustache

Mueller just dropped a hammer all over that nothingburger.

13 Russian individuals and 3 organisations indicted.

You know, it's starting to look like Russians may have interfered in the election to promote Trump and sow discord.

mcmoustache

Defendant ORGANIZATION had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") and disparaging Hillary Clinton.
Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates.
Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities.

This doesn't imply collusion, see the word "Unwitting".

By 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used their fictitious online personas to interfere with the 2016 U.S. presidential election. They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.

Specialists were instructed to post content that focused on "politics in the USA" and to "use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump-we support them)."

Defendants and their co-conspirators thereafter destroyed evidence for the purpose of impeding the investigation. On or about September 13, 2017, KAVERZINA wrote in an email to a family member: "We had a slight crisis here at work: the FBI busted our activity (not a joke). So, I got preoccupied with covering tracks together with the colleagues." KAVERZINA further wrote, "I created all these pictures and posts, and the Americans believed that it was written by their people."

There's a lot to digest

Itssoeasy

It's a fairly poor looking hoax Donald. It doesn't show knowing cooperation between the trump campaign but the Russian lads seemed to play the American people like a fiddle.

Hurrache

Obvious and logical question then must be asked, why? What was in it for them?