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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

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    #4202
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    I really don't care about Clinton. IMO she would have been no better than the awful person the Americans elected. What a choice bad and bad.

    It's like both parties gutted themselves and each other by their choice of candidate, when each had more reasonsable options but chose the worst, leaving the voter with nothing but deeper entrenchment, which has blown away almost everything said to be good about the electoral system and the US, except for the saying that in America you can get to be president. Don may in the end have helped make MAGA become a reality by being booted out of office as well. It's all up to the electorate again.


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    #4203
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    I really don't care about Clinton. IMO she would have been no better than the awful person the Americans elected. What a choice bad and bad.

    I honestly can't believe people are still saying this. Does Trump actually have to flay puppies and eat them on live TV before people will get over their rather bizarre hangups about Hillary Clinton and admit that Trump is, by several orders of magnitude, a worse person than her in every conceivable way (apart from the specious metric of GOPness)?

    Hillary Clinton is your run-of-the-mill politician. She's not a particularly good person in many respects, but few good people can stomach what it takes to get elected.

    Donald Trump has no redeeming qualities. He's an appalling human being who became an appalling candidate and was elected to be an appalling president. The idea that one is as bad as the other is almost as insane as Trump is.


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    #4204
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,154 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The worst thing about the whole "they're as bad as each other" logic, is that it essentially normalises all of Trumps worse behaviour and chaotic actions. It legitimises everything he says and does, no matter how demonstrably awful it is, under the myth that somehow Clinton would also (say) blurt out about missile strikes over Twitter.


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    #4205
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I honestly can't believe people are still saying this. Does Trump actually have to flay puppies and eat them on live TV before people will get over their rather bizarre hangups about Hillary Clinton and admit that Trump is, by several orders of magnitude, a worse person than her in every conceivable way (apart from the specious metric of GOPness)?

    Hillary Clinton is your run-of-the-mill politician. She's not a particularly good person in many respects, but few good people can stomach what it takes to get elected.

    Donald Trump has no redeeming qualities. He's an appalling human being who became an appalling candidate and was elected to be an appalling president. The idea that one is as bad as the other is almost as insane as Trump is.

    No dispute here re Trump, I said he was bad, unique in that category.


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    #4206
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    pixelburp wrote: »
    The worst thing about the whole "they're as bad as each other" logic, is that it essentially normalises all of Trumps worse behaviour and chaotic actions. It legitimises everything he says and does, no matter how demonstrably awful it is, under the myth that somehow Clinton would also (say) blurt out about missile strikes over Twitter.

    I disagree. It does not normalise Trumps behaviour. An impossible task. Most of his personal speak, is his big mouth unacceptable rubbish, using Twitter and whatever. He has no idea how to behave as a politician. Clinton would not have been suitable either IMO, it does not mean she is the same as Trump. Two bad candidates, different in their own way. One had to be chosen.


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    #4207
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,182 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    I disagree. It does not normalise Trumps behaviour. An impossible task. Most of his personal speak, is his big mouth unacceptable rubbish, using Twitter and whatever. He has no idea how to behave as a politician. Clinton would not have suitable either, it does not mean she is the same as Trump. Two bad candidates, different in their own way. One had to be chosen.

    But his Twitter account has become the mouthpiece of the President of the United States. Hilary Clinton is an experienced stateswoman who was at the very least someone who could handle herself and represent the nation on the global stage. Other posters have listed Trump's deep and many, many flaws so I won't here but there is simply no comparison. Clinton as a candidate is pretty poor in that she doesn't seem to have any ideas and is very much part of a broken system but even at that, she was miles better than her opponent.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4208
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    But his Twitter account has become the mouthpiece of the President of the United States. Hilary Clinton is an experienced stateswoman who was at the very least someone who could handle herself and represent the nation on the global stage. Other posters have listed Trump's deep and many, many flaws so I won't here but there is simply no comparison. Clinton as a candidate is pretty poor in that she doesn't seem to have any ideas and is very much part of a broken system but even at that, she was miles better than her opponent.

    Trumps personality has superseded the role of President, so much so that is unrecognisable. The choice was vote for Clinton, because she is not like Trump. It does not make her better IMO. People will argue the choice of her would have been safer and wiser, but we are stuck with him alas.

    North Korea suspending nuclear arms development, Stock Markets all time high. Trump will claim the credit.


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    #4209
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,182 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Trumps personality has superseded the role of President, so much so that is unrecognisable. The choice was vote for Clinton, because she is not like Trump. It does not make her better IMO.

    North Korea suspending nuclear arms development, Stock Markets all time high. Trump will claim the credit.

    What Trump says is often the very opposite of facts so his claims can often be dismissed as nonsense spouted for the sole purpose of soothing and nourishing his frail ego.

    Clinton was better than Trump. Not being Trump or a neo-Nazi he seems to he so fond of makes her better than him.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4210
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Trump has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He's a serial cheater on his wives. He has zero experience of politics. He's a failed businessman. He is insulting and abusive. He's a hypocritical draft dodger. He is woefully uninformed. He is dangerously impulsive. He is a liar. In essence, he's taking a massive dump on the office of POTUS and US politics.


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    #4211
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Trump has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He's a serial cheater on his wives. He has zero experience of politics. He's a failed businessman. He is insulting and abusive. He's a hypocritical draft dodger. He is woefully uninformed. He is dangerously impulsive. He is a liar. In essence, he's taking a massive dump on the office of POTUS and US politics.

    What will future historians and political commentators make of this period in America history? If he survives the rest of his term what other secrets/skeletons in his closet will come to light after his unforgettable term?


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    #4212
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    relax carry on wrote: »
    What will future historians and political commentators make of this period in America history? If he survives the rest of his term what other secrets/skeletons in his closet will come to light after his unforgettable term?

    I'd say what is known is only the tip of the iceberg. So far, he's making Nixon look like a classy guy so I would imagine that history will treat him unkindly.


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    #4213
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,298 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    In the very long term he might even be a force for good, he has shown a lot of politicians and politics up for what they are, and shaken up the system. Possibly it needed something like this to bring to light the racism, pseudo religiosity, and general contempt for one's fellow man that has been fermenting there.

    With apologies for the mangled metaphores!


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    #4214
    FingerDeKat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭FingerDeKat


    looksee wrote: »
    In the very long term he might even be a force for good
    This ^^^

    Americans cop on enough to go "never again "


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    #4215
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    looksee wrote: »
    In the very long term he might even be a force for good, he has shown a lot of politicians and politics up for what they are, and shaken up the system. Possibly it needed something like this to bring to light the racism, pseudo religiosity, and general contempt for one's fellow man that has been fermenting there.

    With apologies for the mangled metaphores!

    Maybe you're right. Maybe elements of American society needed to vent and he'll jus be a nasty little speed bump. However, I think the danger is that he has polarised America in such a way that the country will be split much more than it has been for decades.


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    #4216
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Those who voted for him are still firmly behind him so I don't see that happening.


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    #4217
    derm0j073
    Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭derm0j073


    looksee wrote: »
    In the very long term he might even be a force for good, he has shown a lot of politicians and politics up for what they are, and shaken up the system.
    Or he just lowered the bar and things could get worse.


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    #4218
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,146 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    I do find it amusing the entire conversation has been about whether Cohen will flip on Trump or not, like an acceptance that he has done wrong but whether or not he will get away with it or not is the catual question. Like it's a game, or more appropriately I suppose as if it's a TV show.

    They have begunt he row back though on that one, now the entire SDNY is a dodgy outfit who coach witness's to entrap subjects in perjury traps.

    The usual attack on Mueller and the investigation also and more now about how even if Trump hasn't done anything wrong somehow Cohen will be able to give evidence that he has simply to save his own skin.

    If it wasn't so serious it would be some of the funniest stuff possible

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #4219
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Cohen gave up Hannity within minutes doubt he'll stay loyal to trump if facing jail time. Trump reportedly treated him very badly and used to mock him all the time. Be nice on the way up because you meet all the same people again on the way down.


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    #4220
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,154 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The tattle I've heard is that Cohen basically idolises Trump (did he not use his own money for the Stormy payoff?), so honestly I'd be a little surprised if Cohen flipped on his client, no matter the legal threat placed at his door.


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    #4221
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭amandstu


    StringerBell wrote: »
    I do find it amusing the entire conversation has been about whether Cohen will flip on Trump or not, like an acceptance that he has done wrong but whether or not he will get away with it or not is the catual question. Like it's a game, or more appropriately I suppose as if it's a TV show.

    They have begunt he row back though on that one, now the entire SDNY is a dodgy outfit who coach witness's to entrap subjects in perjury traps.

    The usual attack on Mueller and the investigation also and more now about how even if Trump hasn't done anything wrong somehow Cohen will be able to give evidence that he has simply to save his own skin.

    If it wasn't so serious it would be some of the funniest stuff possible

    Has Cohen a sollicitor? If he had then it would be dynamite if it could be shown that the police were training him to lie.

    Last I heard he was representing himself......

    Are all Cohens liars?


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    #4222
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    20Cent wrote: »
    Cohen gave up Hannity within minutes doubt he'll stay loyal to trump if facing jail time.

    Huh? What do you mean?


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    #4223
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,342 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    In the proceedings arising out of the Mueller enquiry, Cohen is represented by Stephen Ryan of McDermott, Will and Emery.


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    #4224
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,146 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    20Cent wrote: »
    Cohen gave up Hannity within minutes doubt he'll stay loyal to trump if facing jail time. Trump reportedly treated him very badly and used to mock him all the time. Be nice on the way up because you meet all the same people again on the way down.

    A judge forced him to state the name to be fair to him.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #4225
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,146 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    amandstu wrote: »
    Has Cohen a sollicitor? If he had then it would be dynamite if it could be shown that the police were training him to lie.

    Last I heard he was representing himself......

    Are all Cohens liars?

    Pretty sure Cohen has a lawyer yeah.

    It's more of the funny, Trump's lawyers need lawyers etc

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #4226
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    StringerBell wrote: »
    A judge forced him to state the name to be fair to him.

    If he's not willing to face a contempt charge for Trump why would he face a prison term?


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    #4227
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭amandstu


    StringerBell wrote: »
    Pretty sure Cohen has a lawyer yeah.

    It's more of the funny, Trump's lawyers need lawyers etc

    Also funny (worryingly so)

    https://politics.myajc.com/blog/jay-bookman/opinion-right-there-the-middle-5th-avenue/9FjZnFT2c5Yv5qoGJzwlXP/


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    #4228
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,146 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    If he's not willing to face a contempt charge for Trump why would he face a prison term?

    I can see your point but there is a world of difference in giving up a name which on it's own is no harm and giving up an offence, particularly something with the magnitude of bringing down a president, potentially.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #4229
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    StringerBell wrote: »
    Pretty sure Cohen has a lawyer yeah

    Cohen has more lawyers than clients apparently


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    #4230
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭amandstu


    everlast75 wrote: »
    .


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    #4231
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,269 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    As Trump's divorce lawyer said, anyone facing jail tile flips.
    If you believe Cohen has done nothing wrong and has nothing to hide, he wont flip.


This discussion has been closed.
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