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Why are so many Strong Gaelic football Counties in Decline?

  • 11-01-2018 3:47pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    This is something I have been thinking about lately. I would be interested in hearing what people say. Particularly from the below named counties.

    It's seems to me there is a pile of strong gaelic football counties going through a bad time. In the 90s and early 00s Cork Meath Derry Down Kildare Galway Laois Westmeath Armagh Offaly all had great teams. 20 years later the above have almost reached an All time low. What has gone wrong. For example what has gone wrong in Derry or Down. Why have they declined? . Why are so many Strong counties in the state they are in?. And why do the GAA not even care?. Below I will go through the counties. I might be wrong how low they have dropped but overall my general point has a truth to it. Am I on a nostalgia trip to 90s. Or is there a problem. I will give my reasons why I think Meath have declined. But what has happened to Armagh or Laois. What has happened on the ground in those counties. I hope I don't degrade any counties below. But I belive there is something wrong in so strong football counties.

    1 Meath are going trough their worst decade since 1920s. Record defeat to Dublin in 2014. Knocked out of the championship 5 years in a row to Ulster opposition. First time loses to Westmeath Tyrone and Armagh in the championship. Division 2 permanently and knocked out of the championship in mid July yearly. Meath have never had such a poor period since they emerged on the national scene in the 30s.

    2 Down is another powerhouse football county. But Down have not won an Ulster title in nearly quater of a century ( 24 years). They went on a 15 game losing streak in the last 12 months. And for periods in the last decade only Antrim were lower in Ulster. I know Down had bad periods in the 70s and 80s. But overall so far since 2010 this has been one of Downs worst periods since they emerged on the scene in the 1960s.

    3 Cork. Since 2010 Cork have been in decline. In my lifetime 30 years of gaelic football, I have never seen Cork football so low. I cannot think any year in the last 50 years where Cork were not in the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. A division 1 county. It is the first time in 50 years that Cork play kerry in champuonship and there is very little hope of a Cork win. Tipp defeated Cork in the chamouinship recently, something that hasn't happened since 1950s. When Clare and Tipp play Cork now most people would not be surprised if Tipp or Clare won. I think you could say Cork football at the moment could be at its lowest since late 1950s early 1960s.

    4 Galway another aristocrat of gaelic football. While Galway have some sucess recently and have potential the fact is Overall this has been a poor decade for Galway. No win in Croker in the championship in 16 years. If Galway do not reach an All Ireland final in the next 2 years. It will be the first decade since the foundation of the state that Galway have not reached a final. Bad defeats to Tipp and Roscommon in last two years. Galway overall have not been as low as they are in this decade since early 90s.

    5 Derry. Derry were always strong in the 80s 90s and 00s. But are now in divsion 3. The last time Derry was as low as they are now could be 1960s. They had good teams in 70s and 80s. A great team in 90s. And where strong in the 00s

    6 Armagh . Armagh are going to spend 3 of the last 4 years in div 3. When did that last happen to Armagh. Armagh had strong teams in the 70s 80s and 90s. And a great team in the 00s. This potentially has been Armaghs worst decade since 1960s.

    7 Laois. Laois are a strong football county in divsion 4 . Laois had a very good team in the 80s. Lucky not to make the breakthrough. And an excellent team in the 00s. But since Laois have fallen. This decade has being Laois worst since 1970s.

    8 Offaly. Offaly won 3 All Irelands in nearly ten years between 1971 to 1982. Since that Offaly with the exception of 1997 98 have been in divsion 3 or 4. Offaly had a very good team in the 60s reaching All Ireland finals. A great team in the 70s. A brillant team in the 80s. And had a very exciting team in 90s. In the 00s They were unsucessful but they did reach a leinster final. If Offaly don't reach a leinster final in the next two years. It would be the first time since the 50s.It would be their worst decade since 1950s when they emerged on the national scene.

    9 Kildare. Kildare are a strong gaelic football county. While they improved last year and have potential. Both overall this had one of their poorest decades recently. It has been their worst period since Mick O arrived on the scene in the early 90s. 1 leinster final appearance in this decade . Record defeats to Kerry and Dublin. And a very bad record in Croker. 5 loses in the last 2 year's. Overall probaly along with the 80s this is Kildare worst decade in the last 60 or 70 years so far.

    10 Louth and Westmeath . Louth had a strong team in the 90ss. In any other era would have won leinster title. They reached 6 leinster semi final in a row in the 90s. Since 2010 they have dropped to divsion 3 and 4. Westmeath had a great period of sucess in late 90s and early 00s. They won All Ireland minor title in late 90s. And won leinster title in early 00s. Westmeath are now in divsion 4.

    So why are so many great and strong counties in such a bad state. From the high of the 90s and early 00s to the low of this decade. Do the GAA even care?.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭ mactheknife19


    I think it most of those counties your going to have peaks and troughs due to the size of the population, and couple that with emigration both from small counties to large, and then oversees you can see why that has happened. Doesn't really explain the Cork decline though. The ones that surprise me are the Dublin commuter belts of Meath and Kildare (although maybe there on the way back). They are the ones who have seen population growth in the last decade. One thing I know from following some Dublin underage teams (primarily the 21's) was the number of players on those team that were actually living in the likes of Ratoath, Ashbourne etc. They will still playing their club football in Dublin (Dublin parents I assume with connections to the clubs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Meath reasons for decline
    1 Always going to dip after high of 80s and 90s
    2 Not producing player of the calibre of the past
    3 Any time a manger leaves after two decade in charge chaos follows. Look at Utd after Ferguson. The same with Meath after Boylan.
    4 lack of underage sucess. No leinster minor title since 2008. No leinster under 21 title since 2001.
    5 Changing manager over and over again. Meath had 1 manger for nearly 22 years. Since Meath have had 7 managers in the last 12 years. This leads to inconsistency of player selection and halting in development of tactics.
    6 Meath have not had a top class manager since Boylan left.
    7 Population growth had led to identity been diluted.
    8 Very bad defeats to Dublin Kildare Westmeath have led to low confidence levels.
    9 Problem with strenght and conditioning. Armagh had a strenght and conditioning coach in the early 00s. Meath only appointed one in the mid part of this decade. Meath lag behind other teams in the department of strenght and conditioning.
    10 Meath have not produced a top class midfielder since McDermont. And a top class centre back since Liam Harnan.
    11 Meath have had problems at centre field and the half back line.
    12 Meath have lost potentially 3 top class midfielders eg Nash Gillespie and O Rourke
    13 Meath have not adapted to change in modern tactics.
    14 Meaths traditional kick and catch game does not work in the more modern posession game.
    15 Meaths kick and catch game does not work well v blanket defences and sweepers.
    16 Meath have a problem of deciding which way to play. A possession game or a kick and catch game. They fall between both stools . They havd neither.

    So there are my reasons. A reason I think people use which is not as important as people think is Meaths record at club level in leinster. People think Meath lack of sucess at club level in leinster, it is a reason for lack of sucess, it is not. The stats show not in my viewpoint . Between 1987 and 2001 Meath reached 9 All Ireland senior final including replays. In the same period a Meath club did not even reach a club senior All Ireland final. Meaths most sucessful period at club level was in the late 70s and early 80s.

    Walterstown reached Meaths only All Ireland club final in 84. While Summerhill won leinster club title in 77 beating one of the greatest club teams ever St Vincent's by 5 goals. Meath club won 3 leinster club titles in 7 years between 1977 and 1984. It is Meath most sucessful period at club level. At the same time at inter county Meath in late 70s early 80s where heading to div 4 after championship defeats to longford and Wexford in 81 82. I think this shows Meath club form is not as big a reason for Meaths decline in football. Carlow and Wicklow have a better club record in leinster club then Meath Kildare or Offaly. It does not translate to inter county game. And when Meath won the All Ireland in 1996, they did this with 15 players from 15 different clubs. Which shows Meath sucess is not based on one or two strong clubs but based on a wide selection of players from different clubs in different parts of the county.

    Anyway these are my overall reasons for Meaths decline . So what happened in other counties eg Down or Cork?. What are the reasons on the ground. I always thought Cork should have appointed John Cleary manager after his Under 21 sucesses with Cork. This seemed to be a mistake.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭ ArnoldJRimmer


    Half of those counties you mention have a relatively small playing population (Derry, Louth, Offaly etc), so its expected that they will go through peaks and troughs. However there is no excuse for Cork, Meath and Kildare to have fallen so far behind. At least Kildare seem to be going in the right direction, as are Galway, but only time will tell.

    The Leinster and Munster championships are crying out for Meath and Cork to get their houses in order, those championships have become almost unwatchable due to the inevitability of who wins (aside from Meath v Westmeath a few years ago, which was great stuff).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    I think it most of those counties your going to have peaks and troughs due to the size of the population, and couple that with emigration both from small counties to large, and then oversees you can see why that has happened. Doesn't really explain the Cork decline though. The ones that surprise me are the Dublin commuter belts of Meath and Kildare (although maybe there on the way back). They are the ones who have seen population growth in the last decade. One thing I know from following some Dublin underage teams (primarily the 21's) was the number of players on those team that were actually living in the likes of Ratoath, Ashbourne etc. They will still playing their club football in Dublin (Dublin parents I assume with connections to the clubs.

    The growth in population has had the opposite effect. The counties identity is not as strong. And the people who have moved to the county either have no interest in Meath GAA as a whole or basically Dublin supporters who raise their kids to support and play for Dublin. People saying Kildare and Meath should be doing better with this population growth, it actually is the opposite effect on the ground. It has had a negative impact on football in both counties.

    If populatuon growth led to football sucess. Why have Wicklow Louth and Antrim been largely unsucessful in the last 70 years?. All have big populations. Take Wicklow a big population. A strong club scene. Passionate gaa people. Yet have never won a leinster title and only won for the first time in Croker in the last 12 years. If population growth and a big population was the key to football sucess surely Wicklow blows that arguement out of the water. I know no team has won Sam with Pop below 10000 since Offaly in 82. So populatiob is important. But some of the evidence is contradictory. Wicklow Meath Kildare and Louth have shown population growth on Dublins border does not lead to sucess for those bordering counties. Meath actually could become a football nursery for Dublin football. But the GAA don't seem to care. Look how they turn a blind eye to Antrim and Wicklows lack of sucess.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 jr86


    It's not all that long ago where plenty of Ireland Winners and Finalists failed to even defend their province (even losing the first match the year after)

    Nowadays you have what Dublin, Mayo, Kerry (shadow of their 00's team), Tyrone (shadow of their 00's team) and who else realistically?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭ ArnoldJRimmer


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    The growth in population has had the opposite effect. The counties identity is not as strong. And the people who have moved to the county either have no interest in Meath GAA as a whole or basically Dublin supporters who raise their kids to support and play for Dublin. People saying Kildare and Meath should be doing better with this population growth, it actually is the opposite effect on the ground. It has had a negative impact on football in both counties.

    If populatuon growth led to football sucess. Why have Wicklow Louth and Antrim been largely unsucessful in the last 70 years?. All have big populations. Take Wicklow a big population. A strong club scene. Passionate gaa people. Yet have never won a leinster title and only won for the first time in Croker in the last 12 years. If population growth and a big population was the key to football sucess surely Wicklow blows that arguement out of the water. I know no team has won Sam with Pop below 10000 since Offaly in 82. So populatiob is important. But some of the evidence is contradictory. Wicklow Meath Kildare and Louth have shown population growth on Dublins border does not lead to sucess for those bordering counties. Meath actually could become a football nursery for Dublin football. But the GAA don't seem to care. Look how they turn a blind eye to Antrim and Wicklows lack of sucess.

    While there is definitely merit to your first point, you've picked some bad examples in your second one. You can take away 50% of the population of Antrim immediately, and on top of that, they are a dual county. However, I agree they should be doing a little better with the resources they have. The majority of people in Wicklow simply don't care about the GAA, and Louth has two League of Ireland soccer teams. Meath on the other hand, have a huge tradition in the GAA, and its not really acceptable how far they have fallen. Admittedly, the 'Dublin nursery' thing must be so frustrating, I don't know how that can be resolved


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭ riemann


    Most likely their decision to protect the health of their youth and not force them to take "magic shakes".


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,197 ✭✭✭✭ rossie1977


    How many counties have sustained success though outside Kerry and even Kerry went 9 years between 86 and 95 winning just one Munster championship. Meath won a Leinster title in 1970 and didn't win another until 1986. Mayo didn't win a single Connacht championship in the 1970s.

    Success comes in cycles. Derry and Donegal had little to no success at senior level prior to 1990 and then they enjoyed five or six years of great success in ulster, league and both an all ireland. All Armagh had to show between 83 and 1998 was three defeats in ulster finals and then from 99 to 2006 they experienced the most successful period in their history.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    While there is definitely merit to your first point, you've picked some bad examples in your second one. You can take away 50% of the population of Antrim immediately, and on top of that, they are a dual county. However, I agree they should be doing a little better with the resources they have. The majority of people in Wicklow simply don't care about the GAA, and Louth has two League of Ireland soccer teams. Meath on the other hand, have a huge tradition in the GAA, and its not really acceptable how far they have fallen. Admittedly, the 'Dublin nursery' thing must be so frustrating, I don't know how that can be resolved


    What about limerick hurling. A great GAA county. I know rugby is strong. But it has a rich tradition. And great love of hurling. A good population with a big city. Yet Limerick have only won 1 senior hurling All Ireland in 78 years. It's 45 years since they last won a senior hurling All Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    rossie1977 wrote:
    How many counties have sustained success though outside Kerry and even Kerry went 9 years between 86 and 95 winning just one Munster championship. Meath won a Leinster title in 1970 and didn't win another until 1986. Mayo didn't win a single Connacht championship in the 1970s.

    rossie1977 wrote:
    Success comes in cycles. Derry and Donegal had little to no success at senior level prior to 1990 and then they enjoyed five or six years of great success in ulster, league and both an all ireland. All Armagh had to show between 83 and 1998 was three defeats in ulster finals and then from 99 to 2006 they experienced the most successful period in their history.

    That's 100% correct teams sucess go in cycles. Both there does seem to be so many at the same time. Like it unprecedented for 3rd 4th 5th and 6th most sucessful counties ( eg Galway Meath Cork and Down ) all at such lows. Never in the last hundred have Galway Meath Cork Down the above had such bad decade together. At least 1 of them would have been sucessful. Sometimes the 4.

    ]Simply put its not just counties going in cycles. It's so many all at the same time have all bottomed out together. All the 10 counties I named above had sucess ( majority of them had all time best sucess) in the 90s. But now they all together have reached all time lows, lows that they have not reached in a generation or two. There is general malaise agmost allot of strong gaelic football counties.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    Westmeath have never been going so well!
    two Leinster final appearances in a row

    if that happened in any other decade it would be called a 'golden era'


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ Thich Nhat Hanh


    I’d imagine it’s all Dublin’s fault somehow?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭ BENDYBINN


    Blame the PlayStation and intendo boxes....no kids kickin ball anymore


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    I’d imagine it’s all Dublin’s fault somehow?


    I gave 16 reasons why Meath declined. Not 1 mention of Dublin. Counties like Down Cork Meath Armagh Derry Kildare Offaly Galway Laois decline have nothing to do with Dublin. There's many local factors that have a role in all these counties decline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭ Martina1991


    Sonny678 wrote:
    7 Laois. Laois are a strong football county in divsion 4 . Laois had a very good team in the 80s. Lucky not to make the breakthrough. And an excellent team in the 00s. But since Laois have fallen. This decade has being Laois worst since 1970s.

    Sonny678 wrote:
    9 Kildare. Kildare are a strong gaelic football county. While they improved last year and have potential. Both overall this had one of their poorest decades recently. It has been their worst period since Mick O arrived on the scene in the early 90s. 1 leinster final appearance in this decade . Record defeats to Kerry and Dublin. And a very bad record in Croker. 5 loses in the last 2 year's. Overall probaly along with the 80s this is Kildare worst decade in the last 60 or 70 years so far.


    I think Mick O Dwyer was the difference for Kildare and Laois in the 00s.

    I think managers that come from great success generate more respect from players and the community.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    I know this is a bit off topic. But in the sane kind of area. I was watching Irelands greatest moments sporting. They were looking at great GAA moments in 70s 80s and 90s. I was thinking in 20 years what would be the greatest moments in gaa in this decade. There will be only one true great GAA like the moments in the past. That is Dublin winning the three in a row . If they win a 4 in a row or even 5 in a row that will be the great GAA moment of the decade. Donegal winning Sam was brillant and Monaghan winning the Ulster after 30 year break. But overall we don't get the great GAA moments anymore. Moments that captured the nations attention like Clare in 85 or Offaly stopping the 5 in a row in 82. If Mayo win the All Ireland in the next two years it would be one of the greatest GAA moments ever.


    Look at 90s into late 00s great GAA moments in football
    Cork clinching the double in 1990.
    1 1991 Meath v Dublin fourth game
    1991 Down winning All Ireland, first All Ireland for Down and a Ulster team in 23 years
    2 1992 Donegal winning their first All Ireland
    3 1993 Derry winning their first All Ireland
    1993 Leitrim winning their first connacht title in near 70 years
    4 1997 Cavan winning their first Ulster in nearly 30 years
    5 1998 Kildare winning their first leinster title in nearly 40 years
    1998 Galway being the first team from Connacht and Galway to win an All Ireland in 28 years
    6 2002 Armagh win first All Ireland titles ever
    7 2003 Tyrone win first All Ireland ever
    2003 Laois win first leinster title in over 45 years
    8 2004 Westmeath win first ever leinster title.

    They were great moments nearly every years where teams won their first All Ireland, or a football famine in a particular county ends. We don't get that anyone. We had 4 first time All Ireland winners in nearly 10 years. We haven't any since.

    My favourites after Meath. Where Kildare in 98. The county went mental. Leitrim in 93 was a great GAA story especially when Declan D'Arcy lifted the cup with the last Leitrim winner. Donegal winning their first All Ireland . And Paudi O Se leading Westmeath to their first leinster title.

    We have had some fine moment this decade. But in 20 or 30 years the standout moment in football has been Dublins three in a row.

    I think maybe the GAA has become to slick almost to professional. Lost a bit of its amateur spirit . It the sky sports GAA now. I don't know. Maybe Im on a nostalgia trip.


  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭ zzfh


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Blame the PlayStation and intendo boxes....no kids kickin ball anymore

    Same as soccer,'kids aren't playing street football anymore'...Eamo D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    I think Mick O Dwyer was the difference for Kildare and Laois in the 00s.

    I think managers that come from great success generate more respect from players and the community.

    zzfh wrote:
    Same as soccer,'kids aren't playing street football anymore'...Eamo D

    Dwyer point is interesting. Laois leinster win and Kildares two wins were under Kerrys Mick Dwyer and Westmeaths win was under kerry Paudi O Se. The last time a leinster man managed a leinster team to win a leinster title outside Meath or Dublin was Eugene McGee with Offaly in 1982 nearly 36 years ago.

    McGee was a Longford man. Leaving Meath and Dublin to one side the last time a leinster team won a leinster title managed by a man from their own county was who ever was coaching Offaly in 1972. So its nearly 45 years since a leinster manager managed his own county to victory in the leinster championship outside Meath Dublin. The list of leinster winning managers in the last 50 years

    Meath managers ( Boylan 86 87 88 90 91 96 99 01 Barry 10 Fr Tully /McDernont 66 67)

    Dublin mangers ( Heffernan 74 75 76 78 79 83 84 85 Hanohoe 77 Cullen 92 93 94 O Neill 95 Caffrey 05 06 07 08 Gilroy 11 12 Galvin 13 14 15 16 17)

    Kerry managers ( Kildare 98 00 and laois 03 Dwyer and Paudi O Se Westmeath 04 )

    Longford manager ( Offaly McGee 80 81 83)

    Mayo manager ( Lyons Offaly 97 and Dublin 02)

    Offaly manager ??? 1969 to 1972

    Good point about playing on the streets. You just don't see youngsters out practising their football skills as much anymore. With the Internet, smartphones play stations etc there are more things to distract people then years ago.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    Sonny678 wrote:
    The growth in population has had the opposite effect. The counties identity is not as strong. And the people who have moved to the county either have no interest in Meath GAA as a whole or basically Dublin supporters who raise their kids to support and play for Dublin

    Again I've a very good friend from Dublin. Played on our local team

    Moved to Meath some years ago when his oldest was about 4.

    He goes to the Dublin games with us.

    One of his children, my godchild is from Dublin but plays underage for Meath.

    The father lined out for their football team he was not a great footballer, he trained as a ref and has three kids with the club. He hurled with them too but not for long, he was on a Senior Hurling team in Dublin and was better than their average hurler

    He said that there is a massive dislike of any of the parents from Dublin, they find out last about arrangements, they are kept out of the loop. He's never felt welcomed. They hold meetings, vote and make appointments without any of the Dublin members invited or present.

    This year he has stopped helping out at the club, he's decided not to bring his kids training unless they kick up, so he's not encouraging them to play but will bring them if they want. He went as far to say that there is a horrible atmosphere in the club and he's beginning to hate it. It's the sport not the club that kept him going back.

    I agree there are many Dublin supporters in these areas but some of the Meath clubs need to open their arms to the newcomers too.

    He said you can wear any county top when training but kids are sent in to change if they have Dublin kit they are told to "show respect"

    One of his lads is on an under 12s team. The club moved a local to run them this year without even telling the existing manager who was from Dublin and pushed to enter teams for two years as he was bring it through with his own kid. They haven't played a game in 4 months now but intend to enter the championship. His U12 son hasn't played a game against another team in months and is losing interest.

    This was all arranged to put a local in charge of the team, the progress made was resented.

    We'd lads from Clare, Cork and Laois on our team in the centre of the city. They wore their county tops at training.

    I guess it's a complicated issue, there are no winners in these situations but they are not isolated incidents either. You haven't a hope of getting a city kid to identify with Meath in the current light, but you might if there was more of a compromise.

    I've another friend from my area moved to Kildare, Newbridge. It was a completely different experience. This guy was soccer through and through his oldest was 10 when they moved and considered himself a Dub, he played GAA at school and joined a club, as a result the father helps out at the club now and the young lad has played U14 and U16 for Kildare.

    Both of these guys lived on the same street in Dublin, one was welcomed by the local community and the other was not.

    Both families have produced kids that have played county football, however I'm fairly sure that my godchild would transfer to Dublin if asked and "Kildare" kid would not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭ piplip87


    The country is so Dublin centric after the crash. So many young footballers living/working/studying in Dublin. Long commutes, not getting time off could all be reasons.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Firstly about country lads wearing the tops in Dublin. There has being a long tradition of country lads playing in Dublin. Sure up to the 1955 every All Ireland Dublin won was full of country lads. A few Clare jerseys amongst 1 and half million people is not going to matter either way.

    You cannot judge the whole thing on one experience in Meath which was bad and one in Kildare that was good. Not every single person goes through the same experience. It's antidote nothing more nothing less.

    Overall the movement of Dubs to Meath has had a negative impact on Meath GAA. Anyone who says not is involved in that much used modern term fake news. So many of the Dublin parents even though their kids go to Meath schools and play with Meath clubs they make sure their kids support Dublin and want to play for Dublin. That's their right. We live in a free country. But don't say this is not a negative for Meath GAA. And do not give the impression that Meath are the bad guys here. GAA always like to play the image or the card of big bad Meath boogie man scaring everyone. We are no different to any other county.

    The only difference is this . In the latest census it was revealed that

    In Donegal 10% of the people in Donegal are not from Donegal.
    In Cork 15% of the people in Cork are not from Cork.
    In Meath 66% of the people in Meath are not from Meath.

    Most are Dubs who either have no interest in gaa . The Dublin GAA followers in Meath would include many Dublin parents who grew up in 80s and 90s and the idea of their offspring supporting Meath ( the county of Mick Lyons and Graham Geraghty) is not going to happen. This is an issue. Meath and Kildare becoming football nursery's for Dublin. But sure the GAA don't care.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    There has been a couple example of how migration/ population can effect GAA in a county. There is negative and positive.

    Meath and Kildare are current negative. There is many examples now of players in Meath with players playing with Meaths schools and Meath clubs and then switching to Dublin at adult level. This is a growing thread and will continue. It more then likely will grow and grow as a feature of Meath GAA. Meath and Kildare football nursery's for Dublin is a growing features on the ground in gaa circles in both counties

    A positive example of migration is the current Dublin team. So many of the current Dublin have country parents. Many have Donegal parents . What has happened is there was migration from rural Ireland in the 60s 70s 80s to Dublin. The current players parents came up from the country and passed their love of GAA onto their kids. They settled in suburbia middle class Dublin. Children went to college. And instead of turning to rugby they turned to GAA. Look how Dalkey won All.Irelans hurling club title. That is unimaginable 30 years ago. Bonos club gaa champions. So Dublin have benefited greatly from this.

    People thought the migration to Meath from the west helped Meath become a football.sucess. This is not really true. Because the land commission, the moment the people from the west migrates to Meath and Kildare was happening in the 30s 40s 50s and 60s. At the samw time Meath won All Ireland in the 40s 50s and 60s. So that migration had no impact on that sucess. It was more the teams of the 80s and 90s had west of Ireland parents eg Robbie O Malley Mayo. But again it wasn't the real reason for Meaths sucess because Kildare also had massive migration from the west . There is a massive Galway community in Kildare. But Kildare had no sucess as Meath were enjoying huge sucess.

    What the migration brought was a love of gaelic football. The west of Ireland is a true gaelic football heartlands. There is a bit of soccer rugby even hurling. But overall it is strong passionate gaelic football provience. Connacht people are passionate gaa followers . That love of gaelic football spread the gospel of football throughout parish's in Meath and Kildare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭ Gael85


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    I know this is a bit off topic. But in the sane kind of area. I was watching Irelands greatest moments sporting. They were looking at great GAA moments in 70s 80s and 90s. I was thinking in 20 years what would be the greatest moments in gaa in this decade. There will be only one true great GAA like the moments in the past. That is Dublin winning the three in a row . If they win a 4 in a row or even 5 in a row that will be the great GAA moment of the decade. Donegal winning Sam was brillant and Monaghan winning the Ulster after 30 year break. But overall we don't get the great GAA moments anymore. Moments that captured the nations attention like Clare in 85 or Offaly stopping the 5 in a row in 82. If Mayo win the All Ireland in the next two years it would be one of the greatest GAA moments ever.


    Look at 90s into late 00s great GAA moments in football
    Cork clinching the double in 1990.
    1 1991 Meath v Dublin fourth game
    1991 Down winning All Ireland, first All Ireland for Down and a Ulster team in 23 years
    2 1992 Donegal winning their first All Ireland
    3 1993 Derry winning their first All Ireland
    1993 Leitrim winning their first connacht title in near 70 years
    4 1997 Cavan winning their first Ulster in nearly 30 years
    5 1998 Kildare winning their first leinster title in nearly 40 years
    1998 Galway being the first team from Connacht and Galway to win an All Ireland in 28 years
    6 2002 Armagh win first All Ireland titles ever
    7 2003 Tyrone win first All Ireland ever
    2003 Laois win first leinster title in over 45 years
    8 2004 Westmeath win first ever leinster title.

    They were great moments nearly every years where teams won their first All Ireland, or a football famine in a particular county ends. We don't get that anyone. We had 4 first time All Ireland winners in nearly 10 years. We haven't any since.

    My favourites after Meath. Where Kildare in 98. The county went mental. Leitrim in 93 was a great GAA story especially when Declan D'Arcy lifted the cup with the last Leitrim winner. Donegal winning their first All Ireland . And Paudi O Se leading Westmeath to their first leinster title.

    We have had some fine moment this decade. But in 20 or 30 years the standout moment in football has been Dublins three in a row.

    I think maybe the GAA has become to slick almost to professional. Lost a bit of its amateur spirit . It the sky sports GAA now. I don't know. Maybe Im on a nostalgia trip.

    You left out out Clare beating Kerry which was a great moment. That was 92. Leitrim won Connacht in 1994


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Gael85 wrote:
    You left out out Clare beating Kerry which was a great moment. That was 92. Leitrim won Connacht in 1994


    Thanks. Your right. Leitrim was 94. And yes Clare v Kerry was another great moment . How of course could I forget the line "they're wouldn't be a cow milked In clare". The Clare game was the beginning of that great run of football moments. Both played Dublin in the semi finals in 92 Clare and in 94 Leitrim. I wonder with the super 8 will we ever see a Clare or Leitrim play in a semi final v Dublin ever again. Very doubtful. I would add Clare v Kerry to my list of favs gaa moments in that period. Loughnane always said that win by the footballers was an inspiration to the Clare hurlers. Even though he was never a football fan. Thanks again .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    I was at the final Donegal v Dublin in 92. One of the great finals to be at . Great occasion to be at. Donegal winning would be like Sligo or Fermanagh wining Sam in 2022. No one gave Donegal a chance. The roar of the Donegal supporters when the team came on the field was something else.

    Probaly Laois would be next on the list for counties to win Sam that haven't. They're win in 2003 was great also. Should have built on that win. They had a serious forward line Eg Beano Fitzgerald Lawlor Parkinson. But Paudi and Westmeath in 2004 was one of the last great GAA moments. People forget how great a manager Paudi was. Ending the Kerry famine in 97 and winning Westmeaths first title.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,280 ✭✭✭✭ bucketybuck


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    Overall the movement of Dubs to Meath has had a negative impact on Meath GAA. Anyone who says not is involved in that much used modern term fake news. So many of the Dublin parents even though their kids go to Meath schools and play with Meath clubs they make sure their kids support Dublin and want to play for Dublin. That's their right. We live in a free country. But don't say this is not a negative for Meath GAA. And do not give the impression that Meath are the bad guys here. GAA always like to play the image or the card of big bad Meath boogie man scaring everyone. We are no different to any other county.

    The only difference is this . In the latest census it was revealed that

    In Donegal 10% of the people in Donegal are not from Donegal.
    In Cork 15% of the people in Cork are not from Cork.
    In Meath 66% of the people in Meath are not from Meath.

    Most are Dubs who either have no interest in gaa

    Honestly, it sounds as if Meath GAA has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about all these "blow-ins", they would be better to accept the reality of those figures and work on how to embrace them rather than giving them the cold shoulder.

    They might be Dubs, but embrace them now, create a welcoming club culture and Meath GAA might actually find that it would pay off in 10/20 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Honestly, it sounds as if Meath GAA has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about all these "blow-ins", they would be better to accept the reality of those figures and work on how to embrace them rather than giving them the cold shoulder.

    They might be Dubs, but embrace them now, create a welcoming club culture and Meath GAA might actually find that it would pay off in 10/20 years.


    I didn't say it hasn't to within blowins. I'm just saying rural Ireland this is a term that is used in every county from Kerry to Cavan.
    Meath are welcoming all these players. Know one giving any cold shoulder.

    UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVEABLE. Meath are to blame for parents of Dublin encouranging young players who play for Meath clubs all the age grades and then transfer to Dublin. You can support and play for who you want. But don't be saying that Meath are to blame. That is unreal. Dreadful carry on.

    Parents who settle in Meath who grew up in the 80s and 90s are not going to encourage their kids to play for Meath. It's a free country. But dont blame Meath. I don't see a mass exodus of young players from Meath schools and clubs. The issue is players playing for Meath clubs all the way throughout the grades and then when it comes to more adult grades wanting to play for Dublin. Good luck to them . But I have heard it all. When we are to blame. Dreadful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,069 ✭✭✭ MfMan


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    How many counties have sustained success though outside Kerry and even Kerry went 9 years between 86 and 95 winning just one Munster championship. Meath won a Leinster title in 1970 and didn't win another until 1986. Mayo didn't win a single Connacht championship in the 1970s.

    Success comes in cycles. Derry and Donegal had little to no success at senior level prior to 1990 and then they enjoyed five or six years of great success in ulster, league and both an all ireland. All Armagh had to show between 83 and 1998 was three defeats in ulster finals and then from 99 to 2006 they experienced the most successful period in their history.


    Agree that success does indeed come in cycles. Been that way for Galway football historically also. However, their current malaise is a 'recession' that's gone on much longer than previous ones, perhaps for a variety of reasons, including;

    * the decline of the game in north Galway somewhat. Tuam used be a great football hub, helped greatly because of the school rivalries there. Now CBS has closed, amalgamated with St. Jarlaths, who no longer take boarders. They haven't won a Hogan Cup since 2002.

    * the current structure of the club scene. Once upon a time the leagues were clearly defined and relevant because a club could gain promotion to Senior or be relegated from it in this way. Now, this must only be done through championship, making the leagues largely redundant, fixtures only being filled for their sake. Corofin's domestic dominance has exacerbated this. Some clubs only play 2 meaningful championship games a year and there are too many (20+) senior clubs. Moves are underway to address this however.

    * just no good players coming along. Michael Meehan was the only world class player produced since 2001. (98-01 was a happy freak anyway, a confluence of
    a number of great players coming together at the right time.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Honestly, it sounds as if Meath GAA has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about all these "blow-ins", they would be better to accept the reality of those figures and work on how to embrace them rather than giving them the cold shoulder.

    They might be Dubs, but embrace them now, create a welcoming club culture and Meath GAA might actually find that it would pay off in 10/20 years.

    I know at least 4 Dublin parents in Meath. Children playing in Meath clubs. And their fathers told me. They will never support Meath. Always Dublin. And would never play for Meath. And two told me they would sure their kids will hate Meath football as much as he does himself. No problem. Nothing wrong with that. Free country. But don't make it out to be Meaths fault. Those parents viewpoint would be the majority viewpoint.

    Dublin GAA supporters with children in Meath club are going to rather their kids support Dublin and play for Dublin. That is a fact. To say otherwise Donald Trump wouldn't even come up with such nonsense. Many will encourage their children to be part of Meath clubs and then support and play Dublin. There is thousands upon thousands of examples of this. Nothing wrong. You can do what you like. There is many examples.

    But do not say that Meath had caused this. It's not right. It's playing the Meath are the bad guys card and Dublin are the good guys card. There are no bad guys. It is just modern Ireland. People are moving out to the sticks. Culturally socially economically it's bringing a great energy and vibrancy to Meath and Kildare. It is a positive impact on the county of Meath socially culturally economically.

    But in GAA terms it has had a negative effect on Meath GAA. Meath producing future Dublin players is not Meaths fault. To blame us it's not right. It pretty bad form.

    Simple put everyone who knows anything about gaa would understand this. Dubs want their kids to support and play Dublin. They are 100% their right. But don't blame Meath for this. That is Not right. Whatsoever.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    MfMan wrote:
    Agree that success does indeed come in cycles. Been that way for Galway football historically also. However, their current malaise is a 'recession' that's gone on much longer than previous ones, perhaps for a variety of reasons, including;

    MfMan wrote:
    * the decline of the game in north Galway somewhat. Tuam used be a great football hub, helped greatly because of the school rivalries there. Now CBS has closed, amalgamated with St. Jarlaths, who no longer take boarders. They haven't won a Hogan Cup since 2002.

    MfMan wrote:
    * the current structure of the club scene. Once upon a time the leagues were clearly defined and relevant because a club could gain promotion to Senior or be relegated from it in this way. Now, this must only be done through championship, making the leagues largely redundant, fixtures only being filled for their sake. Corofin's domestic dominance has exacerbated this. Some clubs only play 2 meaningful championship games a year and there are too many (20+) senior clubs. Moves are underway to address this however.

    Anyway away from the Meath and Dublin row. ( How do I always end up fighting with the Dubs on this site).

    I heard that also that Tuam CBS was a great nursery for Galway football.

    Galway used to play their games in Tuam. Has moving out to Pearse stadium had an impact. I don't know. But I think I read somewhere moving games from Tuam was not good.

    But Meath Galway Down have been in a long recession. I think all these counties are kick and catch counties. And none of them really been able to deal with new modern tactics eg blanket defence sweeper system. It is extraordinary since 01 All Ireland final how both Meath and Galway went into decline.


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