Why are so many Strong Gaelic football Counties in Decline?

Sonny678 · 11-01-2018 4:47pm #1

This is something I have been thinking about lately. I would be interested in hearing what people say. Particularly from the below named counties.

It's seems to me there is a pile of strong gaelic football counties going through a bad time. In the 90s and early 00s Cork Meath Derry Down Kildare Galway Laois Westmeath Armagh Offaly all had great teams. 20 years later the above have almost reached an All time low. What has gone wrong. For example what has gone wrong in Derry or Down. Why have they declined? . Why are so many Strong counties in the state they are in?. And why do the GAA not even care?. Below I will go through the counties. I might be wrong how low they have dropped but overall my general point has a truth to it. Am I on a nostalgia trip to 90s. Or is there a problem. I will give my reasons why I think Meath have declined. But what has happened to Armagh or Laois. What has happened on the ground in those counties. I hope I don't degrade any counties below. But I belive there is something wrong in so strong football counties.

1 Meath are going trough their worst decade since 1920s. Record defeat to Dublin in 2014. Knocked out of the championship 5 years in a row to Ulster opposition. First time loses to Westmeath Tyrone and Armagh in the championship. Division 2 permanently and knocked out of the championship in mid July yearly. Meath have never had such a poor period since they emerged on the national scene in the 30s.

2 Down is another powerhouse football county. But Down have not won an Ulster title in nearly quater of a century ( 24 years). They went on a 15 game losing streak in the last 12 months. And for periods in the last decade only Antrim were lower in Ulster. I know Down had bad periods in the 70s and 80s. But overall so far since 2010 this has been one of Downs worst periods since they emerged on the scene in the 1960s.

3 Cork. Since 2010 Cork have been in decline. In my lifetime 30 years of gaelic football, I have never seen Cork football so low. I cannot think any year in the last 50 years where Cork were not in the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. A division 1 county. It is the first time in 50 years that Cork play kerry in champuonship and there is very little hope of a Cork win. Tipp defeated Cork in the chamouinship recently, something that hasn't happened since 1950s. When Clare and Tipp play Cork now most people would not be surprised if Tipp or Clare won. I think you could say Cork football at the moment could be at its lowest since late 1950s early 1960s.

4 Galway another aristocrat of gaelic football. While Galway have some sucess recently and have potential the fact is Overall this has been a poor decade for Galway. No win in Croker in the championship in 16 years. If Galway do not reach an All Ireland final in the next 2 years. It will be the first decade since the foundation of the state that Galway have not reached a final. Bad defeats to Tipp and Roscommon in last two years. Galway overall have not been as low as they are in this decade since early 90s.

5 Derry. Derry were always strong in the 80s 90s and 00s. But are now in divsion 3. The last time Derry was as low as they are now could be 1960s. They had good teams in 70s and 80s. A great team in 90s. And where strong in the 00s

6 Armagh . Armagh are going to spend 3 of the last 4 years in div 3. When did that last happen to Armagh. Armagh had strong teams in the 70s 80s and 90s. And a great team in the 00s. This potentially has been Armaghs worst decade since 1960s.

7 Laois. Laois are a strong football county in divsion 4 . Laois had a very good team in the 80s. Lucky not to make the breakthrough. And an excellent team in the 00s. But since Laois have fallen. This decade has being Laois worst since 1970s.

8 Offaly. Offaly won 3 All Irelands in nearly ten years between 1971 to 1982. Since that Offaly with the exception of 1997 98 have been in divsion 3 or 4. Offaly had a very good team in the 60s reaching All Ireland finals. A great team in the 70s. A brillant team in the 80s. And had a very exciting team in 90s. In the 00s They were unsucessful but they did reach a leinster final. If Offaly don't reach a leinster final in the next two years. It would be the first time since the 50s.It would be their worst decade since 1950s when they emerged on the national scene.

9 Kildare. Kildare are a strong gaelic football county. While they improved last year and have potential. Both overall this had one of their poorest decades recently. It has been their worst period since Mick O arrived on the scene in the early 90s. 1 leinster final appearance in this decade . Record defeats to Kerry and Dublin. And a very bad record in Croker. 5 loses in the last 2 year's. Overall probaly along with the 80s this is Kildare worst decade in the last 60 or 70 years so far.

10 Louth and Westmeath . Louth had a strong team in the 90ss. In any other era would have won leinster title. They reached 6 leinster semi final in a row in the 90s. Since 2010 they have dropped to divsion 3 and 4. Westmeath had a great period of sucess in late 90s and early 00s. They won All Ireland minor title in late 90s. And won leinster title in early 00s. Westmeath are now in divsion 4.

So why are so many great and strong counties in such a bad state. From the high of the 90s and early 00s to the low of this decade. Do the GAA even care?.

mactheknife19 · 11-01-2018 5:05pm

I think it most of those counties your going to have peaks and troughs due to the size of the population, and couple that with emigration both from small counties to large, and then oversees you can see why that has happened. Doesn't really explain the Cork decline though. The ones that surprise me are the Dublin commuter belts of Meath and Kildare (although maybe there on the way back). They are the ones who have seen population growth in the last decade. One thing I know from following some Dublin underage teams (primarily the 21's) was the number of players on those team that were actually living in the likes of Ratoath, Ashbourne etc. They will still playing their club football in Dublin (Dublin parents I assume with connections to the clubs.

Sonny678 · 11-01-2018 5:15pm

Meath reasons for decline
1 Always going to dip after high of 80s and 90s
2 Not producing player of the calibre of the past
3 Any time a manger leaves after two decade in charge chaos follows. Look at Utd after Ferguson. The same with Meath after Boylan.
4 lack of underage sucess. No leinster minor title since 2008. No leinster under 21 title since 2001.
5 Changing manager over and over again. Meath had 1 manger for nearly 22 years. Since Meath have had 7 managers in the last 12 years. This leads to inconsistency of player selection and halting in development of tactics.
6 Meath have not had a top class manager since Boylan left.
7 Population growth had led to identity been diluted.
8 Very bad defeats to Dublin Kildare Westmeath have led to low confidence levels.
9 Problem with strenght and conditioning. Armagh had a strenght and conditioning coach in the early 00s. Meath only appointed one in the mid part of this decade. Meath lag behind other teams in the department of strenght and conditioning.
10 Meath have not produced a top class midfielder since McDermont. And a top class centre back since Liam Harnan.
11 Meath have had problems at centre field and the half back line.
12 Meath have lost potentially 3 top class midfielders eg Nash Gillespie and O Rourke
13 Meath have not adapted to change in modern tactics.
14 Meaths traditional kick and catch game does not work in the more modern posession game.
15 Meaths kick and catch game does not work well v blanket defences and sweepers.
16 Meath have a problem of deciding which way to play. A possession game or a kick and catch game. They fall between both stools . They havd neither.

So there are my reasons. A reason I think people use which is not as important as people think is Meaths record at club level in leinster. People think Meath lack of sucess at club level in leinster, it is a reason for lack of sucess, it is not. The stats show not in my viewpoint . Between 1987 and 2001 Meath reached 9 All Ireland senior final including replays. In the same period a Meath club did not even reach a club senior All Ireland final. Meaths most sucessful period at club level was in the late 70s and early 80s.

Walterstown reached Meaths only All Ireland club final in 84. While Summerhill won leinster club title in 77 beating one of the greatest club teams ever St Vincent's by 5 goals. Meath club won 3 leinster club titles in 7 years between 1977 and 1984. It is Meath most sucessful period at club level. At the same time at inter county Meath in late 70s early 80s where heading to div 4 after championship defeats to longford and Wexford in 81 82. I think this shows Meath club form is not as big a reason for Meaths decline in football. Carlow and Wicklow have a better club record in leinster club then Meath Kildare or Offaly. It does not translate to inter county game. And when Meath won the All Ireland in 1996, they did this with 15 players from 15 different clubs. Which shows Meath sucess is not based on one or two strong clubs but based on a wide selection of players from different clubs in different parts of the county.

Anyway these are my overall reasons for Meaths decline . So what happened in other counties eg Down or Cork?. What are the reasons on the ground. I always thought Cork should have appointed John Cleary manager after his Under 21 sucesses with Cork. This seemed to be a mistake.

ArnoldJRimmer · 11-01-2018 5:21pm

Half of those counties you mention have a relatively small playing population (Derry, Louth, Offaly etc), so its expected that they will go through peaks and troughs. However there is no excuse for Cork, Meath and Kildare to have fallen so far behind. At least Kildare seem to be going in the right direction, as are Galway, but only time will tell.

The Leinster and Munster championships are crying out for Meath and Cork to get their houses in order, those championships have become almost unwatchable due to the inevitability of who wins (aside from Meath v Westmeath a few years ago, which was great stuff).

Sonny678 · 11-01-2018 5:26pm

mactheknife19 wrote:

I think it most of those counties your going to have peaks and troughs due to the size of the population, and couple that with emigration both from small counties to large, and then oversees you can see why that has happened. Doesn't really explain the Cork decline though. The ones that surprise me are the Dublin commuter belts of Meath and Kildare (although maybe there on the way back). They are the ones who have seen population growth in the last decade. One thing I know from following some Dublin underage teams (primarily the 21's) was the number of players on those team that were actually living in the likes of Ratoath, Ashbourne etc. They will still playing their club football in Dublin (Dublin parents I assume with connections to the clubs.

The growth in population has had the opposite effect. The counties identity is not as strong. And the people who have moved to the county either have no interest in Meath GAA as a whole or basically Dublin supporters who raise their kids to support and play for Dublin. People saying Kildare and Meath should be doing better with this population growth, it actually is the opposite effect on the ground. It has had a negative impact on football in both counties.

If populatuon growth led to football sucess. Why have Wicklow Louth and Antrim been largely unsucessful in the last 70 years?. All have big populations. Take Wicklow a big population. A strong club scene. Passionate gaa people. Yet have never won a leinster title and only won for the first time in Croker in the last 12 years. If population growth and a big population was the key to football sucess surely Wicklow blows that arguement out of the water. I know no team has won Sam with Pop below 10000 since Offaly in 82. So populatiob is important. But some of the evidence is contradictory. Wicklow Meath Kildare and Louth have shown population growth on Dublins border does not lead to sucess for those bordering counties. Meath actually could become a football nursery for Dublin football. But the GAA don't seem to care. Look how they turn a blind eye to Antrim and Wicklows lack of sucess.

jr86 · 11-01-2018 5:38pm

It's not all that long ago where plenty of Ireland Winners and Finalists failed to even defend their province (even losing the first match the year after)

Nowadays you have what Dublin, Mayo, Kerry (shadow of their 00's team), Tyrone (shadow of their 00's team) and who else realistically?

ArnoldJRimmer · 11-01-2018 5:55pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

The growth in population has had the opposite effect. The counties identity is not as strong. And the people who have moved to the county either have no interest in Meath GAA as a whole or basically Dublin supporters who raise their kids to support and play for Dublin. People saying Kildare and Meath should be doing better with this population growth, it actually is the opposite effect on the ground. It has had a negative impact on football in both counties.

If populatuon growth led to football sucess. Why have Wicklow Louth and Antrim been largely unsucessful in the last 70 years?. All have big populations. Take Wicklow a big population. A strong club scene. Passionate gaa people. Yet have never won a leinster title and only won for the first time in Croker in the last 12 years. If population growth and a big population was the key to football sucess surely Wicklow blows that arguement out of the water. I know no team has won Sam with Pop below 10000 since Offaly in 82. So populatiob is important. But some of the evidence is contradictory. Wicklow Meath Kildare and Louth have shown population growth on Dublins border does not lead to sucess for those bordering counties. Meath actually could become a football nursery for Dublin football. But the GAA don't seem to care. Look how they turn a blind eye to Antrim and Wicklows lack of sucess.

While there is definitely merit to your first point, you've picked some bad examples in your second one. You can take away 50% of the population of Antrim immediately, and on top of that, they are a dual county. However, I agree they should be doing a little better with the resources they have. The majority of people in Wicklow simply don't care about the GAA, and Louth has two League of Ireland soccer teams. Meath on the other hand, have a huge tradition in the GAA, and its not really acceptable how far they have fallen. Admittedly, the 'Dublin nursery' thing must be so frustrating, I don't know how that can be resolved

riemann · 11-01-2018 5:58pm

Most likely their decision to protect the health of their youth and not force them to take "magic shakes".

rossie1977 · 11-01-2018 7:12pm

How many counties have sustained success though outside Kerry and even Kerry went 9 years between 86 and 95 winning just one Munster championship. Meath won a Leinster title in 1970 and didn't win another until 1986. Mayo didn't win a single Connacht championship in the 1970s.

Success comes in cycles. Derry and Donegal had little to no success at senior level prior to 1990 and then they enjoyed five or six years of great success in ulster, league and both an all ireland. All Armagh had to show between 83 and 1998 was three defeats in ulster finals and then from 99 to 2006 they experienced the most successful period in their history.

Sonny678 · 11-01-2018 7:19pm

ArnoldJRimmer wrote:

While there is definitely merit to your first point, you've picked some bad examples in your second one. You can take away 50% of the population of Antrim immediately, and on top of that, they are a dual county. However, I agree they should be doing a little better with the resources they have. The majority of people in Wicklow simply don't care about the GAA, and Louth has two League of Ireland soccer teams. Meath on the other hand, have a huge tradition in the GAA, and its not really acceptable how far they have fallen. Admittedly, the 'Dublin nursery' thing must be so frustrating, I don't know how that can be resolved

What about limerick hurling. A great GAA county. I know rugby is strong. But it has a rich tradition. And great love of hurling. A good population with a big city. Yet Limerick have only won 1 senior hurling All Ireland in 78 years. It's 45 years since they last won a senior hurling All Ireland.

Sonny678 · 11-01-2018 8:11pm

rossie1977 wrote:

How many counties have sustained success though outside Kerry and even Kerry went 9 years between 86 and 95 winning just one Munster championship. Meath won a Leinster title in 1970 and didn't win another until 1986. Mayo didn't win a single Connacht championship in the 1970s.

rossie1977 wrote:

Success comes in cycles. Derry and Donegal had little to no success at senior level prior to 1990 and then they enjoyed five or six years of great success in ulster, league and both an all ireland. All Armagh had to show between 83 and 1998 was three defeats in ulster finals and then from 99 to 2006 they experienced the most successful period in their history.

That's 100% correct teams sucess go in cycles. Both there does seem to be so many at the same time. Like it unprecedented for 3rd 4th 5th and 6th most sucessful counties ( eg Galway Meath Cork and Down ) all at such lows. Never in the last hundred have Galway Meath Cork Down the above had such bad decade together. At least 1 of them would have been sucessful. Sometimes the 4.

]Simply put its not just counties going in cycles. It's so many all at the same time have all bottomed out together. All the 10 counties I named above had sucess ( majority of them had all time best sucess) in the 90s. But now they all together have reached all time lows, lows that they have not reached in a generation or two. There is general malaise agmost allot of strong gaelic football counties.

nice_guy80 · 11-01-2018 8:45pm

Westmeath have never been going so well!
two Leinster final appearances in a row

if that happened in any other decade it would be called a 'golden era'

Thich Nhat Hanh · 11-01-2018 9:00pm

I’d imagine it’s all Dublin’s fault somehow?

BENDYBINN · 11-01-2018 9:26pm

Blame the PlayStation and intendo boxes....no kids kickin ball anymore

Sonny678 · 11-01-2018 9:41pm

Thich Nhat Hanh wrote:

Iâ€™d imagine itâ€™s all Dublinâ€™s fault somehow?

I gave 16 reasons why Meath declined. Not 1 mention of Dublin. Counties like Down Cork Meath Armagh Derry Kildare Offaly Galway Laois decline have nothing to do with Dublin. There's many local factors that have a role in all these counties decline.

Martina1991 · 12-01-2018 12:13am

Sonny678 wrote:

7 Laois. Laois are a strong football county in divsion 4 . Laois had a very good team in the 80s. Lucky not to make the breakthrough. And an excellent team in the 00s. But since Laois have fallen. This decade has being Laois worst since 1970s.

Sonny678 wrote:

9 Kildare. Kildare are a strong gaelic football county. While they improved last year and have potential. Both overall this had one of their poorest decades recently. It has been their worst period since Mick O arrived on the scene in the early 90s. 1 leinster final appearance in this decade . Record defeats to Kerry and Dublin. And a very bad record in Croker. 5 loses in the last 2 year's. Overall probaly along with the 80s this is Kildare worst decade in the last 60 or 70 years so far.

I think Mick O Dwyer was the difference for Kildare and Laois in the 00s.

I think managers that come from great success generate more respect from players and the community.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 12:27am

I know this is a bit off topic. But in the sane kind of area. I was watching Irelands greatest moments sporting. They were looking at great GAA moments in 70s 80s and 90s. I was thinking in 20 years what would be the greatest moments in gaa in this decade. There will be only one true great GAA like the moments in the past. That is Dublin winning the three in a row . If they win a 4 in a row or even 5 in a row that will be the great GAA moment of the decade. Donegal winning Sam was brillant and Monaghan winning the Ulster after 30 year break. But overall we don't get the great GAA moments anymore. Moments that captured the nations attention like Clare in 85 or Offaly stopping the 5 in a row in 82. If Mayo win the All Ireland in the next two years it would be one of the greatest GAA moments ever.

Look at 90s into late 00s great GAA moments in football
Cork clinching the double in 1990.
1 1991 Meath v Dublin fourth game
1991 Down winning All Ireland, first All Ireland for Down and a Ulster team in 23 years
2 1992 Donegal winning their first All Ireland
3 1993 Derry winning their first All Ireland
1993 Leitrim winning their first connacht title in near 70 years
4 1997 Cavan winning their first Ulster in nearly 30 years
5 1998 Kildare winning their first leinster title in nearly 40 years
1998 Galway being the first team from Connacht and Galway to win an All Ireland in 28 years
6 2002 Armagh win first All Ireland titles ever
7 2003 Tyrone win first All Ireland ever
2003 Laois win first leinster title in over 45 years
8 2004 Westmeath win first ever leinster title.

They were great moments nearly every years where teams won their first All Ireland, or a football famine in a particular county ends. We don't get that anyone. We had 4 first time All Ireland winners in nearly 10 years. We haven't any since.

My favourites after Meath. Where Kildare in 98. The county went mental. Leitrim in 93 was a great GAA story especially when Declan D'Arcy lifted the cup with the last Leitrim winner. Donegal winning their first All Ireland . And Paudi O Se leading Westmeath to their first leinster title.

We have had some fine moment this decade. But in 20 or 30 years the standout moment in football has been Dublins three in a row.

I think maybe the GAA has become to slick almost to professional. Lost a bit of its amateur spirit . It the sky sports GAA now. I don't know. Maybe Im on a nostalgia trip.

zzfh · 12-01-2018 12:29am

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Blame the PlayStation and intendo boxes....no kids kickin ball anymore

Same as soccer,'kids aren't playing street football anymore'...Eamo D

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 1:00am

Martina1991 wrote:

I think Mick O Dwyer was the difference for Kildare and Laois in the 00s.

Martina1991 wrote:

I think managers that come from great success generate more respect from players and the community.

zzfh wrote:

Same as soccer,'kids aren't playing street football anymore'...Eamo D

Dwyer point is interesting. Laois leinster win and Kildares two wins were under Kerrys Mick Dwyer and Westmeaths win was under kerry Paudi O Se. The last time a leinster man managed a leinster team to win a leinster title outside Meath or Dublin was Eugene McGee with Offaly in 1982 nearly 36 years ago.

McGee was a Longford man. Leaving Meath and Dublin to one side the last time a leinster team won a leinster title managed by a man from their own county was who ever was coaching Offaly in 1972. So its nearly 45 years since a leinster manager managed his own county to victory in the leinster championship outside Meath Dublin. The list of leinster winning managers in the last 50 years

Meath managers ( Boylan 86 87 88 90 91 96 99 01 Barry 10 Fr Tully /McDernont 66 67)

Dublin mangers ( Heffernan 74 75 76 78 79 83 84 85 Hanohoe 77 Cullen 92 93 94 O Neill 95 Caffrey 05 06 07 08 Gilroy 11 12 Galvin 13 14 15 16 17)

Kerry managers ( Kildare 98 00 and laois 03 Dwyer and Paudi O Se Westmeath 04 )

Longford manager ( Offaly McGee 80 81 83)

Mayo manager ( Lyons Offaly 97 and Dublin 02)

Offaly manager ??? 1969 to 1972

Good point about playing on the streets. You just don't see youngsters out practising their football skills as much anymore. With the Internet, smartphones play stations etc there are more things to distract people then years ago.

Stoner · 12-01-2018 1:13am

Sonny678 wrote:

The growth in population has had the opposite effect. The counties identity is not as strong. And the people who have moved to the county either have no interest in Meath GAA as a whole or basically Dublin supporters who raise their kids to support and play for Dublin

Again I've a very good friend from Dublin. Played on our local team

Moved to Meath some years ago when his oldest was about 4.

He goes to the Dublin games with us.

One of his children, my godchild is from Dublin but plays underage for Meath.

The father lined out for their football team he was not a great footballer, he trained as a ref and has three kids with the club. He hurled with them too but not for long, he was on a Senior Hurling team in Dublin and was better than their average hurler

He said that there is a massive dislike of any of the parents from Dublin, they find out last about arrangements, they are kept out of the loop. He's never felt welcomed. They hold meetings, vote and make appointments without any of the Dublin members invited or present.

This year he has stopped helping out at the club, he's decided not to bring his kids training unless they kick up, so he's not encouraging them to play but will bring them if they want. He went as far to say that there is a horrible atmosphere in the club and he's beginning to hate it. It's the sport not the club that kept him going back.

I agree there are many Dublin supporters in these areas but some of the Meath clubs need to open their arms to the newcomers too.

He said you can wear any county top when training but kids are sent in to change if they have Dublin kit they are told to "show respect"

One of his lads is on an under 12s team. The club moved a local to run them this year without even telling the existing manager who was from Dublin and pushed to enter teams for two years as he was bring it through with his own kid. They haven't played a game in 4 months now but intend to enter the championship. His U12 son hasn't played a game against another team in months and is losing interest.

This was all arranged to put a local in charge of the team, the progress made was resented.

We'd lads from Clare, Cork and Laois on our team in the centre of the city. They wore their county tops at training.

I guess it's a complicated issue, there are no winners in these situations but they are not isolated incidents either. You haven't a hope of getting a city kid to identify with Meath in the current light, but you might if there was more of a compromise.

I've another friend from my area moved to Kildare, Newbridge. It was a completely different experience. This guy was soccer through and through his oldest was 10 when they moved and considered himself a Dub, he played GAA at school and joined a club, as a result the father helps out at the club now and the young lad has played U14 and U16 for Kildare.

Both of these guys lived on the same street in Dublin, one was welcomed by the local community and the other was not.

Both families have produced kids that have played county football, however I'm fairly sure that my godchild would transfer to Dublin if asked and "Kildare" kid would not.

piplip87 · 12-01-2018 1:33am

The country is so Dublin centric after the crash. So many young footballers living/working/studying in Dublin. Long commutes, not getting time off could all be reasons.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 1:48am

Firstly about country lads wearing the tops in Dublin. There has being a long tradition of country lads playing in Dublin. Sure up to the 1955 every All Ireland Dublin won was full of country lads. A few Clare jerseys amongst 1 and half million people is not going to matter either way.

You cannot judge the whole thing on one experience in Meath which was bad and one in Kildare that was good. Not every single person goes through the same experience. It's antidote nothing more nothing less.

Overall the movement of Dubs to Meath has had a negative impact on Meath GAA. Anyone who says not is involved in that much used modern term fake news. So many of the Dublin parents even though their kids go to Meath schools and play with Meath clubs they make sure their kids support Dublin and want to play for Dublin. That's their right. We live in a free country. But don't say this is not a negative for Meath GAA. And do not give the impression that Meath are the bad guys here. GAA always like to play the image or the card of big bad Meath boogie man scaring everyone. We are no different to any other county.

The only difference is this . In the latest census it was revealed that

In Donegal 10% of the people in Donegal are not from Donegal.
In Cork 15% of the people in Cork are not from Cork.
In Meath 66% of the people in Meath are not from Meath.

Most are Dubs who either have no interest in gaa . The Dublin GAA followers in Meath would include many Dublin parents who grew up in 80s and 90s and the idea of their offspring supporting Meath ( the county of Mick Lyons and Graham Geraghty) is not going to happen. This is an issue. Meath and Kildare becoming football nursery's for Dublin. But sure the GAA don't care.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 2:55am

There has been a couple example of how migration/ population can effect GAA in a county. There is negative and positive.

Meath and Kildare are current negative. There is many examples now of players in Meath with players playing with Meaths schools and Meath clubs and then switching to Dublin at adult level. This is a growing thread and will continue. It more then likely will grow and grow as a feature of Meath GAA. Meath and Kildare football nursery's for Dublin is a growing features on the ground in gaa circles in both counties

A positive example of migration is the current Dublin team. So many of the current Dublin have country parents. Many have Donegal parents . What has happened is there was migration from rural Ireland in the 60s 70s 80s to Dublin. The current players parents came up from the country and passed their love of GAA onto their kids. They settled in suburbia middle class Dublin. Children went to college. And instead of turning to rugby they turned to GAA. Look how Dalkey won All.Irelans hurling club title. That is unimaginable 30 years ago. Bonos club gaa champions. So Dublin have benefited greatly from this.

People thought the migration to Meath from the west helped Meath become a football.sucess. This is not really true. Because the land commission, the moment the people from the west migrates to Meath and Kildare was happening in the 30s 40s 50s and 60s. At the samw time Meath won All Ireland in the 40s 50s and 60s. So that migration had no impact on that sucess. It was more the teams of the 80s and 90s had west of Ireland parents eg Robbie O Malley Mayo. But again it wasn't the real reason for Meaths sucess because Kildare also had massive migration from the west . There is a massive Galway community in Kildare. But Kildare had no sucess as Meath were enjoying huge sucess.

What the migration brought was a love of gaelic football. The west of Ireland is a true gaelic football heartlands. There is a bit of soccer rugby even hurling. But overall it is strong passionate gaelic football provience. Connacht people are passionate gaa followers . That love of gaelic football spread the gospel of football throughout parish's in Meath and Kildare.

Gael85 · 12-01-2018 10:14am

Sonny678 wrote: »

I know this is a bit off topic. But in the sane kind of area. I was watching Irelands greatest moments sporting. They were looking at great GAA moments in 70s 80s and 90s. I was thinking in 20 years what would be the greatest moments in gaa in this decade. There will be only one true great GAA like the moments in the past. That is Dublin winning the three in a row . If they win a 4 in a row or even 5 in a row that will be the great GAA moment of the decade. Donegal winning Sam was brillant and Monaghan winning the Ulster after 30 year break. But overall we don't get the great GAA moments anymore. Moments that captured the nations attention like Clare in 85 or Offaly stopping the 5 in a row in 82. If Mayo win the All Ireland in the next two years it would be one of the greatest GAA moments ever.

Look at 90s into late 00s great GAA moments in football
Cork clinching the double in 1990.
1 1991 Meath v Dublin fourth game
1991 Down winning All Ireland, first All Ireland for Down and a Ulster team in 23 years
2 1992 Donegal winning their first All Ireland
3 1993 Derry winning their first All Ireland
1993 Leitrim winning their first connacht title in near 70 years
4 1997 Cavan winning their first Ulster in nearly 30 years
5 1998 Kildare winning their first leinster title in nearly 40 years
1998 Galway being the first team from Connacht and Galway to win an All Ireland in 28 years
6 2002 Armagh win first All Ireland titles ever
7 2003 Tyrone win first All Ireland ever
2003 Laois win first leinster title in over 45 years
8 2004 Westmeath win first ever leinster title.

They were great moments nearly every years where teams won their first All Ireland, or a football famine in a particular county ends. We don't get that anyone. We had 4 first time All Ireland winners in nearly 10 years. We haven't any since.

My favourites after Meath. Where Kildare in 98. The county went mental. Leitrim in 93 was a great GAA story especially when Declan D'Arcy lifted the cup with the last Leitrim winner. Donegal winning their first All Ireland . And Paudi O Se leading Westmeath to their first leinster title.

We have had some fine moment this decade. But in 20 or 30 years the standout moment in football has been Dublins three in a row.

I think maybe the GAA has become to slick almost to professional. Lost a bit of its amateur spirit . It the sky sports GAA now. I don't know. Maybe Im on a nostalgia trip.

You left out out Clare beating Kerry which was a great moment. That was 92. Leitrim won Connacht in 1994

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 10:32am

Gael85 wrote:

You left out out Clare beating Kerry which was a great moment. That was 92. Leitrim won Connacht in 1994

Thanks. Your right. Leitrim was 94. And yes Clare v Kerry was another great moment . How of course could I forget the line "they're wouldn't be a cow milked In clare". The Clare game was the beginning of that great run of football moments. Both played Dublin in the semi finals in 92 Clare and in 94 Leitrim. I wonder with the super 8 will we ever see a Clare or Leitrim play in a semi final v Dublin ever again. Very doubtful. I would add Clare v Kerry to my list of favs gaa moments in that period. Loughnane always said that win by the footballers was an inspiration to the Clare hurlers. Even though he was never a football fan. Thanks again .

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 11:42am

I was at the final Donegal v Dublin in 92. One of the great finals to be at . Great occasion to be at. Donegal winning would be like Sligo or Fermanagh wining Sam in 2022. No one gave Donegal a chance. The roar of the Donegal supporters when the team came on the field was something else.

Probaly Laois would be next on the list for counties to win Sam that haven't. They're win in 2003 was great also. Should have built on that win. They had a serious forward line Eg Beano Fitzgerald Lawlor Parkinson. But Paudi and Westmeath in 2004 was one of the last great GAA moments. People forget how great a manager Paudi was. Ending the Kerry famine in 97 and winning Westmeaths first title.

bucketybuck · 12-01-2018 12:27pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Overall the movement of Dubs to Meath has had a negative impact on Meath GAA. Anyone who says not is involved in that much used modern term fake news. So many of the Dublin parents even though their kids go to Meath schools and play with Meath clubs they make sure their kids support Dublin and want to play for Dublin. That's their right. We live in a free country. But don't say this is not a negative for Meath GAA. And do not give the impression that Meath are the bad guys here. GAA always like to play the image or the card of big bad Meath boogie man scaring everyone. We are no different to any other county.

The only difference is this . In the latest census it was revealed that

In Donegal 10% of the people in Donegal are not from Donegal.
In Cork 15% of the people in Cork are not from Cork.
In Meath 66% of the people in Meath are not from Meath.

Most are Dubs who either have no interest in gaa

Honestly, it sounds as if Meath GAA has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about all these "blow-ins", they would be better to accept the reality of those figures and work on how to embrace them rather than giving them the cold shoulder.

They might be Dubs, but embrace them now, create a welcoming club culture and Meath GAA might actually find that it would pay off in 10/20 years.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 1:02pm

bucketybuck wrote:

Honestly, it sounds as if Meath GAA has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about all these "blow-ins", they would be better to accept the reality of those figures and work on how to embrace them rather than giving them the cold shoulder.

bucketybuck wrote:

They might be Dubs, but embrace them now, create a welcoming club culture and Meath GAA might actually find that it would pay off in 10/20 years.

I didn't say it hasn't to within blowins. I'm just saying rural Ireland this is a term that is used in every county from Kerry to Cavan.
Meath are welcoming all these players. Know one giving any cold shoulder.

UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVEABLE. Meath are to blame for parents of Dublin encouranging young players who play for Meath clubs all the age grades and then transfer to Dublin. You can support and play for who you want. But don't be saying that Meath are to blame. That is unreal. Dreadful carry on.

Parents who settle in Meath who grew up in the 80s and 90s are not going to encourage their kids to play for Meath. It's a free country. But dont blame Meath. I don't see a mass exodus of young players from Meath schools and clubs. The issue is players playing for Meath clubs all the way throughout the grades and then when it comes to more adult grades wanting to play for Dublin. Good luck to them . But I have heard it all. When we are to blame. Dreadful.

MfMan · 12-01-2018 1:26pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

How many counties have sustained success though outside Kerry and even Kerry went 9 years between 86 and 95 winning just one Munster championship. Meath won a Leinster title in 1970 and didn't win another until 1986. Mayo didn't win a single Connacht championship in the 1970s.

Success comes in cycles. Derry and Donegal had little to no success at senior level prior to 1990 and then they enjoyed five or six years of great success in ulster, league and both an all ireland. All Armagh had to show between 83 and 1998 was three defeats in ulster finals and then from 99 to 2006 they experienced the most successful period in their history.

Agree that success does indeed come in cycles. Been that way for Galway football historically also. However, their current malaise is a 'recession' that's gone on much longer than previous ones, perhaps for a variety of reasons, including;

* the decline of the game in north Galway somewhat. Tuam used be a great football hub, helped greatly because of the school rivalries there. Now CBS has closed, amalgamated with St. Jarlaths, who no longer take boarders. They haven't won a Hogan Cup since 2002.

* the current structure of the club scene. Once upon a time the leagues were clearly defined and relevant because a club could gain promotion to Senior or be relegated from it in this way. Now, this must only be done through championship, making the leagues largely redundant, fixtures only being filled for their sake. Corofin's domestic dominance has exacerbated this. Some clubs only play 2 meaningful championship games a year and there are too many (20+) senior clubs. Moves are underway to address this however.

* just no good players coming along. Michael Meehan was the only world class player produced since 2001. (98-01 was a happy freak anyway, a confluence of
a number of great players coming together at the right time.)

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 1:27pm

bucketybuck wrote:

Honestly, it sounds as if Meath GAA has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about all these "blow-ins", they would be better to accept the reality of those figures and work on how to embrace them rather than giving them the cold shoulder.

bucketybuck wrote:

They might be Dubs, but embrace them now, create a welcoming club culture and Meath GAA might actually find that it would pay off in 10/20 years.

I know at least 4 Dublin parents in Meath. Children playing in Meath clubs. And their fathers told me. They will never support Meath. Always Dublin. And would never play for Meath. And two told me they would sure their kids will hate Meath football as much as he does himself. No problem. Nothing wrong with that. Free country. But don't make it out to be Meaths fault. Those parents viewpoint would be the majority viewpoint.

Dublin GAA supporters with children in Meath club are going to rather their kids support Dublin and play for Dublin. That is a fact. To say otherwise Donald Trump wouldn't even come up with such nonsense. Many will encourage their children to be part of Meath clubs and then support and play Dublin. There is thousands upon thousands of examples of this. Nothing wrong. You can do what you like. There is many examples.

But do not say that Meath had caused this. It's not right. It's playing the Meath are the bad guys card and Dublin are the good guys card. There are no bad guys. It is just modern Ireland. People are moving out to the sticks. Culturally socially economically it's bringing a great energy and vibrancy to Meath and Kildare. It is a positive impact on the county of Meath socially culturally economically.

But in GAA terms it has had a negative effect on Meath GAA. Meath producing future Dublin players is not Meaths fault. To blame us it's not right. It pretty bad form.

Simple put everyone who knows anything about gaa would understand this. Dubs want their kids to support and play Dublin. They are 100% their right. But don't blame Meath for this. That is Not right. Whatsoever.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 1:35pm

MfMan wrote:

Agree that success does indeed come in cycles. Been that way for Galway football historically also. However, their current malaise is a 'recession' that's gone on much longer than previous ones, perhaps for a variety of reasons, including;

MfMan wrote:

* the decline of the game in north Galway somewhat. Tuam used be a great football hub, helped greatly because of the school rivalries there. Now CBS has closed, amalgamated with St. Jarlaths, who no longer take boarders. They haven't won a Hogan Cup since 2002.

MfMan wrote:

* the current structure of the club scene. Once upon a time the leagues were clearly defined and relevant because a club could gain promotion to Senior or be relegated from it in this way. Now, this must only be done through championship, making the leagues largely redundant, fixtures only being filled for their sake. Corofin's domestic dominance has exacerbated this. Some clubs only play 2 meaningful championship games a year and there are too many (20+) senior clubs. Moves are underway to address this however.

Anyway away from the Meath and Dublin row. ( How do I always end up fighting with the Dubs on this site).

I heard that also that Tuam CBS was a great nursery for Galway football.

Galway used to play their games in Tuam. Has moving out to Pearse stadium had an impact. I don't know. But I think I read somewhere moving games from Tuam was not good.

But Meath Galway Down have been in a long recession. I think all these counties are kick and catch counties. And none of them really been able to deal with new modern tactics eg blanket defence sweeper system. It is extraordinary since 01 All Ireland final how both Meath and Galway went into decline.

Seth Brundle · 12-01-2018 1:47pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Meath and Kildare are current negative. There is many examples now of players in Meath with players playing with Meaths schools and Meath clubs and then switching to Dublin at adult level. This is a growing thread and will continue. It more then likely will grow and grow as a feature of Meath GAA. Meath and Kildare football nursery's for Dublin is a growing features on the ground in gaa circles in both counties

I grew up in Dublin (never really got the opportuinty to play unfortunately) but would support Dublin. I now live in Leixlip.
My children have lived in Leixlip all their lives and would always support Kildare (they would happily support anyone but Dublin).
My son proudly plays for his club and has proudly represented his county. I think it is the same for all of this team mates and for most other players whose parents I've chatted with (many of whom are originally from Dublin). The lads love watching the county and cheering them on (especially cheering whomever may be playing from our club).

If Dublin parents living in Meath have children who aren't proud of where they live then this is down to the both parents and the club. The parents will obviously influence the kids but should this be any greater than the infludence that they're getting from their friends and classmates and community? However, the club should also be influencing the kids. Is there no pride in their county? Do they not feel it's their county? Is there not enough engagement with the kids at county level?
Why is my experience in Kidare different to the previous posters in Meath?
I know there was always a bit of rivallry between Dublin and Meath but I really don't understand why there appears to be such a difference.

Bonniedog · 12-01-2018 1:48pm

Sonny, perhaps Meath is unique in that many of Dub "emigrants" are from north county where rivalry is intense, to say the least!

I have nieces and nephews in Cork and Kildare of Dub parents and out of 8, only one supports Dublin. She makes quite a virtue of it in fact. Rest have all played with local clubs and support own county. Don't mind Cork so much but Kildare, the shame .....

(BTW, hadn't read above post, but seems similar. Kildare nephews hate Dubs with a passion, much to embarrassment of my brother!)

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 1:57pm

What has happened to Down football. Someone told me there is couple of strong Down clubs now. While in the 60s every year there was new county champions and there was a better spread of clubs and better system. I don't know if that is true.

What about Armagh . Armagh had strong teams in 70s 80s and 90s. And great 1 in the 00s. I remeber Meath playing Armagh in 2014. I was so impressed with Armagh. I was thinking they could be future All Ireland champions by the end of the decade. Is Crossmaglen influence to strong?

Laois a strong football county. To see Laois in div 4 with an old team is not nice to see . You hear stories of player indiscipline. Is that true or other factors.

Offaly another great GAA county. How Offaly declined since 82 had been a massive pity for leinster football.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 2:12pm

kbannon wrote:

If Dublin parents living in Meath have children who aren't proud of where they live then this is down to the both parents and the club. The parents will obviously influence the kids but should this be any greater than the infludence that they're getting from their friends and classmates and community? However, the club should also be influencing the kids. Is there no pride in their county? Do they not feel it's their county? Is there not enough engagement with the kids at county level? Why is my experience in Kidare different to the previous posters in Meath? I know there was always a bit of rivallry between Dublin and Meath but I really don't understand why there appears to be such a difference.

You answered the question in the last line. The Meath v Dublin rivalry. Most parents settling with kids now in Meath grew up in the 80s and 90s. What was going on in Dublin GAA in 90s. Yearly battles with Meaths. And nearly yearly victories for Meath.

There is no real rivalry between Kildare and Dublin. It's a muted rivalry. Kildare don't like Dublin. But there is a lack of bite . Something you could never accuse Meath and Dublin of not having. Meath defeated Dublin in 8 leinster finals in over 10 years in the 80s and 90s. Kildare have only beaten Dublin 1 time in a leinster final in 100 years. That's the reason. Meath v Dublin is a rivalry. One of if not the biggest rivalry in GAA.

Kildare and Dublin is not really. In the last 45 years Kildare have beaten Dublin twice and no draws. In the last 35 years Meaths have beaten Dublin 9 times and 5 draws. That's why. It's a rivalry. Man City parents are not going to bring their kids up to support Man Utd. Celtic parents are not going to bring their kids up to support Rangers. Kilkenny parents are not going to bring their kids up to support Tipp. It's the same with Meath and Dubllin. There will be the few who will. But the vast majority of Dublin parents would rather their kids support and play for Dublin not Meath. I think that makes obvious sense. Surely that is no surprise.

bucketybuck · 12-01-2018 2:16pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVEABLE. Meath are to blame for parents of Dublin encouranging young players who play for Meath clubs all the age grades and then transfer to Dublin. You can support and play for who you want. But don't be saying that Meath are to blame. That is unreal. Dreadful carry on.

I never said that.

I did say that Meath GAA seems to have a large chip on its shoulder, and all you have done is reinforce that suspicion.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 2:29pm

Bonniedog wrote:

Sonny, perhaps Meath is unique in that many of Dub "emigrants" are from north county where rivalry is intense, to say the least!

Bonniedog wrote:

I have nieces and nephews in Cork and Kildare of Dub parents and out of 8, only one supports Dublin. She makes quite a virtue of it in fact. Rest have all played with local clubs and support own county. Don't mind Cork so much but Kildare, the shame .....

Bonniedog wrote:

(BTW, hadn't read above post, but seems similar. Kildare nephews hate Dubs with a passion, much to embarrassment of my brother!)

Bonniedog North side element could be a reason. But Kildare and Cork didn't have the rivalry Meath had with Dublin. It's the rivalry. I have seen it all my life.

DJIMI TRARORE · 12-01-2018 2:30pm

I'd say the biggest reason is that people realised that playing GAA is not the be all and end all of sport in Ireland any more. More and more sporting clubs setting up all the time,in cavan we now have swimming,triathlon,archery,cricket running,athletic etc etc. Imagine if someone suggested a cricket club in cavan in 1997 they would be shot. More and more people are finding the training and the roughness of gaa off putting,plus the attitude that if ur not winning every competition u enter that u are sh1te. U8 are been drilled for 1-3 hrs every weekend, u must do this,u must do that,no joy in them any more. Even feile,u14 competition, players on diets and not allowed eat buns or cakes after games,even bringing their own chefs FFS

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 2:33pm

bucketybuck wrote:

I never said that.

bucketybuck wrote:

I did say that Meath GAA seems to have a large chip on its shoulder, and all you have done is reinforce that suspicion.

OK Bucketybuck. If you didn't say it. I apologise. Yes we do have a everyone hates us chip on our shoulder. But that because everyone did hate in the us in the 80s and 90s.
But the reality of the situation is the reality of the situation.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 2:39pm

DJIMI TRARORE wrote:

I'd say the biggest reason is that people realised that playing GAA is not the be all and end all of sport in Ireland any more. More and more sporting clubs setting up all the time,in cavan we now have swimming,triathlon,archery,cricket running,athletic etc etc. Imagine if someone suggested a cricket club in cavan in 1997 they would be shot. More and more people are finding the training and the roughness of gaa off putting,plus the attitude that if ur not winning every competition u enter that u are sh1te. U8 are been drilled for 1-3 hrs every weekend, u must do this,u must do that,no joy in them any more. Even feile,u14 competition, players on diets and not allowed eat buns or cakes after games,even bringing their own chefs FFS

Cavan is a great GAA county. I know u hate us in Meath. But always like Cavan GAA. Hard-core supporters follow the team through thick and thin. But it seems to me that GAA don't look at counties like Cavan and say we need to prioritize a county with such tradition as Cavan. They dont seem to care. The scenes in 97 where unreal. I was going with a Cavan girl at the time and I was at the Ulster final and the scenes afterwards were amazing. It hard to believe that is Cavans only Ulster title in nearly half a century. More should be done to help counties like Cavan.

Bonniedog · 12-01-2018 2:41pm

Can we all agree to just hate Kildare?

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 2:45pm

Bonniedog wrote:

Can we all agree to just hate Kildare?

But deep down you don't. It those white jerseys. They are just to daz white. It makes them look so innocent clean and nice. The green and gold of Meath and Kerry is a different story all together and it brings the real hate and bile from the Dubs. Offaly had green and gold colours as well. The Jackeens don't like boggers in green and gold.

Bonniedog · 12-01-2018 2:58pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

But deep down you don't. It those white jerseys. They are just to daz white. It makes them look so innocent clean and nice. The green and gold of Meath and Kerry is a different story all together and it brings the real hate and bile from the Dubs. Offaly had green and gold colours as well. The Jackeens don't like boggers in green and gold.

"Jackeens" replaced the crown flag with the green and gold, so don't see that as issue.

Dislike of Kildare was more in line with outrage - there is Latin phrase that I can't recall - about being beaten by them. Like Barcelona being beaten by Villareal or Yankees by Colorado. Not natural!

Gael85 · 12-01-2018 3:02pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Thanks. Your right. Leitrim was 94. And yes Clare v Kerry was another great moment . How of course could I forget the line "they're wouldn't be a cow milked In clare". The Clare game was the beginning of that great run of football moments. Both played Dublin in the semi finals in 92 Clare and in 94 Leitrim. I wonder with the super 8 will we ever see a Clare or Leitrim play in a semi final v Dublin ever again. Very doubtful. I would add Clare v Kerry to my list of favs gaa moments in that period. Loughnane always said that win by the footballers was an inspiration to the Clare hurlers. Even though he was never a football fan. Thanks again .

Agree very hard to see minnows qualify for last 8. Think the backdoor suits the big teams. The super 8 will widen the gap further. Loved 92 & 94 as mother from Leitrim and father from Clare.

rossie1977 · 12-01-2018 3:09pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Cavan is a great GAA county. I know u hate us in Meath. But always like Cavan GAA. Hard-core supporters follow the team through thick and thin. But it seems to me that GAA don't look at counties like Cavan and say we need to prioritize a county with such tradition as Cavan. They dont seem to care. The scenes in 97 where unreal. I was going with a Cavan girl at the time and I was at the Ulster final and the scenes afterwards were amazing. It hard to believe that is Cavans only Ulster title in nearly half a century. More should be done to help counties like Cavan.

Cavan had an excellent underage system in place and produced some of the best minor and under 21 teams in Ireland between 2010 and 2015. I was at this game in 2014, a game Cavan could have and probably should have won with one of the best counter attacking displays I have seen at that level. Eight of the Dublin team I believe played championship football last year just to indicate how strong their opponents were http://www.the42.ie/live-dublin-cavan-u21-1423566-Apr2014/

At the end of the day it's up to the county board and management to incorporate those players and tactics at senior level. Dublin have done it flawlessly since 2010.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 3:20pm

rossie1977 wrote:

Cavan had an excellent underage system in place and produced some of the best minor and under 21 teams in Ireland between 2010 and 2015. I was at this game in 2014, a game Cavan could have and probably should have won with one of the best counter attacking displays I have seen at that level. Eight of the Dublin team I believe played championship football last year just to indicate how strong their opponents were

rossie1977 wrote:

At the end of the day it's up to the county board and management to incorporate those players and tactics at senior level. Dublin have done it flawlessly since 2010.

Yes but what about the 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. What does the GAA really do for county like Cavan. Roscommon would be yes have great underage sucess recently . And an excellent young team. After Tyrone the best young team in the country. The next few years look very promising for Roscommon. They seem to be on the beginning of new era of sucess.

But before this decade Roscomon would be similar to Cavan. Both last wins in the 40s and 50s. Both strong gaelic football counties. Great supporters. A strong club system in the county. Yet sucess lacking overall. Both left to their own devices.

Both Cavan and Roscomon are gaa heartlands. There is very little soccer rugby it's just gaelic football. I cannot understand how GAA look at counties like Cavan, an aristocrat of the game. And say it's good enough that they have won 1 Ulster title in 50 years. Clearly more outside help needs to be done. They dont give a **** in HQ.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 3:54pm

kbannon wrote:

If Dublin parents living in Meath have children who aren't proud of where they live then this is down to the both parents and the club. The parents will obviously influence the kids but should this be any greater than the infludence that they're getting from their friends and classmates and community? However, the club should also be influencing the kids. Is there no pride in their county? Do they not feel it's their county? Is there not enough engagement with the kids at county level? Why is my experience in Kidare different to the previous posters in Meath? I know there was always a bit of rivallry between Dublin and Meath but I really don't understand why there appears to be such a difference.

To blame the club is unfair. The parents have a role here. I grew up in an area there would have been migration from west to Meath. You would have neighbours who never joined a Meath club or played football. Would arrived in Meath when they were 7 or 8. They would be in their 70s or 80s now. They dont consider themselves Meath they consider themselves Kerry or Clare. Not only that they hate Meath football with a passion.

I know a chap who did thesis on migration and he interviewed many of the above. He asked them. Why they hated Meath.? Was it a bad experience living in the county? They said no it was a nice place to live. Bad experiences with local clubs or school? No kids loved the clubs and schools. The reason was they justed hated Meath footballers. They hated Mick Lyons and co. We are not a popular gaa county.

I knew 5 fellas growing up. All parents from the west came with the land commission. Known of them played GAA did not join. Weren't good enough. But did like sports and gaa. And because their parents hated the Meath football team they hated the Meath football team. This was passed on.

Ask any Meath person and they will tell you there has always been people living in the county who hate our footballers. It wouldn't be anything to do with a club or school. Simply put because of Meaths sucessful footballers. Players like Lyons and a Geraghty were hate figures . We were hated up and down the country . Of course the Dubs and other people are going to continue hating us even if they live in the county and have a positive experience in the county.

Sonny678 · 12-01-2018 4:31pm

To continue from the above.
The guy who did the thesis was from Offaly. It was about migration to Meath from the west. He was shocked at the level of hate to Meath footballers. He interviewed around 12 elderly men who migrated from the west coast at the age of 7 or 8 or 9 . There family was given a farm in Meath. They were all over 65 now.

They would live in Meath and rear a family. He said they said they had a very positive experience in Meath. A very nice life in Meath for them and their family. They all had positive experiences in schools and Meath clubs. But when the topic of Meath football team came up, things changed. Every single one of them hated Meath footballers. They were dirty so and sos. And all the usual. The chap I knew was shocked and surprised but I wasn't. That would have been my experience growing up.

I grew up in rural Meath. The area I lived there was my family who would have been in the area for generations. Then 7 land commission families. Basically families that would have migrated from the western seaboard under De Valera policies in the 30s 40s 50s 60s. My experience was most of their kids did not support Meath. And every one of the fathers supported their county of birth and the Mayo or kerry flag would come out before big games for Mayo or kerry. And they all hated Meath footballers with a passion.

That is my experience. We have always had people in the county who lived happily for decades but hated our football team. Dublin supporters are just latest examples of that.

rossie1977 · 12-01-2018 4:57pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Yes but what about the 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. What does the GAA really do for county like Cavan. Roscommon would be yes have great underage sucess recently . And an excellent young team. After Tyrone the best young team in the country. The next few years look very promising for Roscommon. They seem to be on the beginning of new era of sucess.

But before this decade Roscomon would be similar to Cavan. Both last wins in the 40s and 50s. Both strong gaelic football counties. Great supporters. A strong club system in the county. Yet sucess lacking overall. Both left to their own devices.

Both Cavan and Roscomon are gaa heartlands. There is very little soccer rugby it's just gaelic football. I cannot understand how GAA look at counties like Cavan, an aristocrat of the game. And say it's good enough that they have won 1 Ulster title in 50 years. Clearly more outside help needs to be done. They dont give a **** in HQ.

There is actually quite a bit of rugby in South Roscommon. We have lost a number of players to rugby in recent years such as Jack Carty and Danny Qualter both standouts at minor level having since represented Ireland at under 20 and Connacht.

Roscommon had quite a few barren years post 2001 at senior level for a number of reasons. We didn't produce anything at underage level and would get hammered by Mayo/Galway and lose to Leitrim and Sligo consistently at minor and under 21 and that followed then at senior. There was also alot of poor managerial appointments where they tried to totally tear up the team and build from scratch and there simply wasn't enough players in the county to undertake such a task. I can't blame the GAA on any of that. That's the Roscommon county boards own fault. Since 2005-06 Roscommon has developed a top class grass-roots program which brought success at underage (seven Connacht finals in a row at under 21 between 2010 and 2016) and it's now starting to show signs at senior level. But again any success Roscommon has at senior level going forward will be on them not what the GAA does.

Obviously we are miles behind the likes of Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo in terms of professional setup. It would be lovely if the GAA built a nice big centre of excellence in the county but beggars can't be choosers.

Stoner · 12-01-2018 5:00pm

Sonny678 wrote:

Firstly about country lads wearing the tops in Dublin. There has being a long tradition of country lads playing in Dublin. Sure up to the 1955 every All Ireland Dublin won was full of country lads. A few Clare jerseys amongst 1 and half million people is not going to matter either way.

And did you enjoy the 50's Sonny?

You have a very backward view imo.

If you think its a few Clare jerseys then it's shows how far off the mark you are.

There are a huge amount of country lads playing in Dublin, and they don't always get a good run either.

It cuts both ways, you'll just have to deal with it or remain bitter. Things change Sonny that's life.

Either embrace it or it will only get worse imo.

slegs · 12-01-2018 5:03pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

What about limerick hurling. A great GAA county. I know rugby is strong. But it has a rich tradition. And great love of hurling. A good population with a big city. Yet Limerick have only won 1 senior hurling All Ireland in 78 years. It's 45 years since they last won a senior hurling All Ireland.

Limerick have been a failure at senior but have been relatively successful at underage in recent years particularly in schools hurling and U21. You could say that a decline has been halted if anything and hurling is alive again in Limerick city. I think Limerick are a good example of the argument against the OP's view. Ultimately it has to lead to an All Ireland to be proven but the building blocks are there.

Why are so many Strong Gaelic football Counties in Decline?

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