Israel will imprison migrants if they dont leave

markodaly

end of the road wrote: »

only those of the "right stock" are allowed to vote in it.

You mean only Jews are allowed to vote?

i believe apartheid south africa was quite high up on that list back in the day also. just like the fact it wasn't a democracy, israel isn't a democracy unless you are of the right criteria.

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You would be wrong.

Odhinn

markodaly wrote: »

You mean only Jews are allowed to vote?

Specifically Israeli citizens. However nearly 5 million Palestinians are effectively ruled by Israel and get no vote.

markodaly

Odhinn wrote: »

Specifically Israeli citizens. However nearly 5 million Palestinians are effectively ruled by Israel and get no vote.

Oh I know that. Israeli citizens vote in their national elections just like Irish citizens vote in their national elections. I just think EOTR thinks that only Jews are allowed to vote, when in fact any Israeli citizen, Jew, Muslim, Arab or Christian is allowed to vote.

Palestinians vote in their own elections, well in the West Bank anyway. Those in Gaza are not so lucky.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

However nearly 5 million Palestinians are effectively ruled by Israel and get no vote.

So they were better off being illegally occupied by Jordan until 1967 then were they? :rolleyes:

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

Palestinians vote in their own elections, well in the West Bank anyway. Those in Gaza are not so lucky.

Mod note: Quit that rubbish now.

Buford T. Justice

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

One cannot rule millions in a brutal fashion and lay claim to that title, any more than apartheid south africa could.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/01/opinion/israels-charade-of-democracy.html
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/israel-palestine-democracy-apartheid-discrimination-settler-colonialism
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israel-is-supposedly-the-only-democracy-in-the-middle-east-yet-45-million-palestinians-under-its-10113950.html

Opinion pieces that just reinforce that Israel is a Democracy but a "bad" democracy.

end of the road wrote: »

only those of the "right stock" are allowed to vote in it.

i believe apartheid south africa was quite high up on that list back in the day also. just like the fact it wasn't a democracy, israel isn't a democracy unless you are of the right criteria.

But it is a democratic system for those who are, and it seeks to protect its citizens.

But basically, Israel is not a democracy because it doesn't pass your criteria. Poland is notoriously right-winged and anti-migrant. Are they also not a democracy?

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

<snip>/QUOTE]

Hamas of course.

Grayson

Israel does have a lot of problems. It's a democracy but hardly a liberal one.

Take their marriage laws for example. Since the founding of the state it's effectively illegal to get married outside of your religion. You can go abroad , and about 1 in 10 do, but inside Israel you can't.

Grayson

It's also worth mentioning that Israel also secretly gave birth control to black Jews who migrated there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseknutsen/2013/01/28/israel-foribly-injected-african-immigrant-women-with-birth-control/#6754077067b8

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

markodaly

Grayson wrote: »

It's also worth mentioning that Israel also secretly gave birth control to black Jews who migrated there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseknutsen/2013/01/28/israel-foribly-injected-african-immigrant-women-with-birth-control/#6754077067b8

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

All states have a past. Sweden, the benchmark for many when it comes to liberal democracies forcibly sterilised some of its citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilisation_in_Sweden

According to the 2000 governmental report, 21,000 were estimated to have been forcibly sterilised, 6,000 were coerced into a "voluntary" sterilisation while the nature of a further 4,000 cases could not be determined.[5]

We in Ireland have a dark past as well when it comes to treating illegitimate children, unmarried mothers and the mentally disabled.

markodaly

Grayson wrote: »

Israel does have a lot of problems. It's a democracy but hardly a liberal one.

See the democracy index stat I linked. It is 'more' of a democracy than Poland, Belgium and the Czech Republic according to that.

Grayson

markodaly wrote: »

All states have a past. Sweden, the benchmark for many when it comes to liberal democracies forcibly sterilised some of its citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilisation_in_Sweden



We in Ireland have a dark past as well when it comes to treating illegitimate children, unmarried mothers and the mentally disabled.

I don't know if you can refer to it as the "past" if it's very recently. This was only 4 years ago. That's pretty current. They still have the same people in power.

Odhinn

markodaly wrote: »

Oh I know that. Israeli citizens vote in their national elections just like Irish citizens vote in their national elections. I just think EOTR thinks that only Jews are allowed to vote, when in fact any Israeli citizen, Jew, Muslim, Arab or Christian is allowed to vote.

Palestinians vote in their own elections, well in the West Bank anyway. Those in Gaza are not so lucky.

As the West Bank is, essentially, under Israeli control thats really not that relevant.

markodaly wrote: »

All states have a past.

That article is just 4 years old. The occupation and its associated evils are on-going.

markodaly

Odhinn wrote: »

As the West Bank is, essentially, under Israeli control thats really not that relevant.

The Palestine Government actually has lots of control in the West Bank. Day to day running of the region is up this authority who exert executive powers over many aspects of daily life such as local taxation, education, health, utilities and so on.

Israel generally keeps a hands off approach, so yes, it is very relevant.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

The Palestine Government actually has lots of control in the West Bank. Day to day running of the region is up this authority who exert executive powers over many aspects of daily life such as local taxation, education, health, utilities and so on.

Israel generally keeps a hands off approach, so yes, it is very relevant.

Area A (under the governance of the PA only) is about 18% of the WB region, so in reality they have control of sweet f**k all of it.

zell12

Did Israel's proposed arbeit macht frei for asylum seekers not work out then?

Odhinn

markodaly wrote: »

The Palestine Government actually has lots of control in the West Bank. Day to day running of the region is up this authority who exert executive powers over many aspects of daily life such as local taxation, education, health, utilities and so on.

Israel generally keeps a hands off approach, so yes, it is very relevant.

I'd suggest you need to do a bit of reading.