N3 - Virginia Bypass [route options published]

marno21

TII have confirmed that the Virginia bypass is back on the table and will be reactivated in 2018.

It is unclear whether this will be part of a wider Kells-Cavan town scheme or an isolated bypass

Either way, good news.

Freddypaccman

This will definitely be a help. Word on the street is that a Kells-Cavan dc could potentially run southwest of Lough Ramor and between Virginia and Oldcastle, possibly running parallel to the R154 to serve Ballyjamesduff and Kilnaleck before turning towards Cavan tying in with Cavan bypass via the N55 section that opened in 2006. If this is the case, a Virginia bypass could be just a relief I'd guess.

This is what is on the TII website re N3 Kells to Cavan. Quite vague with a northern tie in from South of Cavan to North of Butlersbridge. Possibly includes upgrading Cavan Bypass

The scheme involves the improvement / replacement of a section of the N3 from a location south of the Cavan / Meath County boundary (in the townland of Derver, County Meath), to an appropriate location on the existing network between the townlands of Thomas Court or Drumroosk and Kilnaleck, Butlersbridge County Cavan, a potential distance of 46km.

http://www.tii.ie/projects/road-schemes/#70

That would be long way off so any form of Virginia bp would be welcome if it could be built quick enough.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

TII have confirmed that the Virginia bypass is back on the table and will be reactivated in 2018.

It is unclear whether this will be part of a wider Kells-Cavan town scheme or an isolated bypass

Either way, good news.

Jesus Marno you are like santy this evening with all the good news your delivering!

Middle Man

Agree, Marno is doing a quite whopper tonight!

munchkin_utd

I cant see it being part of a (border-) Cavan - virginia investigation like it was before everything was stopped.

That was an opportunist stroke by Cavan County council (changing scope of virgina by pass to a Kells to Fermanagh super highway) which backfired

best get Virginia by pass built along with the needed roads north and south of the town itsself.

roadmaster

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I cant see it being part of a (border-) Cavan - virginia investigation like it was before everything was stopped.

That was an opportunist stroke by Cavan County council (changing scope of virgina by pass to a Kells to Fermanagh super highway) which backfired

best get Virginia by pass built along with the needed roads north and south of the town itsself.

Was it simply down to cost that we got Type 2 instead of motorway from kells to whitegate? when you say the super highway was Virginia originally included in the M3 project at some stage pre tender stage?

munchkin_utd

roadmaster wrote: »

Was it simply down to cost that we got Type 2 instead of motorway from kells to whitegate? when you say the super highway was Virginia originally included in the M3 project at some stage pre tender stage?

nah, the Virginia project was originally a relatively modest and digestable bypass on its own, but then Cavan Co Co had their speak and it was then changed to a 38km long scheme instead, starting from scratch!

Heres a thread I started on the matter, where you'll see that the council stated in 2009 that "The proposed Virginia Bypass Scheme is now superseded by the N3 Edenburt to Cavan Bypass Project. "
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64204573

The NRA project status at the time indicated the scale of the new project, and (lack of) progress.

N3 North of Kells to Cavan
Description: The proposed scheme involves the realignment of the existing N3 from Edenburt (Cavan.Meath County Boundary) to the Cavan Bypass.
Mainline Length (km): 38km
Current Project Phase: Feasibility Study

marno21

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/07/18/4159024-virginia-bypass-route-not-decided/

Article on the Virginia bypass in the Anglo Celt. Pre-appraisal of project to be complete for early 2019 (yes...)

road_high

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I cant see it being part of a (border-) Cavan - virginia investigation like it was before everything was stopped.

That was an opportunist stroke by Cavan County council (changing scope of virgina by pass to a Kells to Fermanagh super highway) which backfired

best get Virginia by pass built along with the needed roads north and south of the town itsself.

Beyond Virginia itself the N3 is very good to the Fermanagh border. All wide carriageway with hard shoulders. If they want to improve on things why not put in climbing lanes in places. The traffic volumes don’t appear all that heavy and this was a friday afternoon. Seemed far quieter than the N4 for example and no villages to pass through

roadmaster

Following on from Marno's update i see apart from the virginia bypass there is also a scheme for road between Virginia and Maghera which give or take a few meters will be a 5km project. i wonder why this has not being pulled as far as the end of the dual carriageway as it is only 3km away?

roadmaster

road_high wrote: »

Beyond Virginia itself the N3 is very good to the Fermanagh border. All wide carriageway with hard shoulders. If they want to improve on things why not put in climbing lanes in places. The traffic volumes don’t appear all that heavy and this was a friday afternoon. Seemed far quieter than the N4 for example and no villages to pass through

It can be very heavy at times, One reason i would make it 2+2 is there is generally enough room and it would stop the mad over taking.Its a miracle no serious crashes has happened.

BelfastVanMan

roadmaster wrote: »

Following on from Marno's update i see apart from the virginia bypass there is also a scheme for road between Virginia and Maghera which give or take a few meters will be a 5km project. i wonder why this has not being pulled as far as the end of the dual carriageway as it is only 3km away?

I may be wrong, but from memory, the last 3kms of the N3 before the start of the 2+2 Kells Bypass is of Type 1 SC standard (or equivalent).

Can anyone else confirm this, or am I going senile? :-D

roadmaster

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

I may be wrong, but from memory, the last 3kms of the N3 before the start of the 2+2 Kells Bypass is of Type 1 SC standard (or equivalent).

Can anyone else confirm this, or am I going senile? :-D

yip its wide single carriageway with hard shoulders but between white gate and the roundabout going south is tight in places. when built it was nuts that the junction at the filling station was not some how incorporated back to the roundabout for safety

BelfastVanMan

roadmaster wrote: »

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

I may be wrong, but from memory, the last 3kms of the N3 before the start of the 2+2 Kells Bypass is of Type 1 SC standard (or equivalent).

Can anyone else confirm this, or am I going senile? :-D

yip its wide single carriageway with hard shoulders but between white gate and the roundabout going south is tight in places. when built it was nuts that the junction at the filling station was not some how incorporated back to the roundabout for safety

Right enough, I know exactly where you mean, now.
Hopefully some localised widening can solve this.
I won't holdy breath...

jhenno78

roadmaster wrote: »

when built it was nuts that the junction at the filling station was not some how incorporated back to the roundabout for safety

I've always suspected that when the M3 was planned the designers had it in their heads that HQDC would be built to Cavan at a later date along a more southernly route to bypass all the villages/accesses along the way and the built-up section of N3 coming into Cavan.
Something like this:


*not saying they should or that it would be justified BTW. While it would be a neater solution, there's obviously about 50 other projects more worthy of that kind of spend - just sharing my theory.

Freddypaccman

roadmaster wrote: »

Following on from Marno's update i see apart from the virginia bypass there is also a scheme for road between Virginia and Maghera which give or take a few meters will be a 5km project. i wonder why this has not being pulled as far as the end of the dual carriageway as it is only 3km away?

I reckon this Virginia to Maghera scheme would just add proper hard shoulders like the rest of the N3 in Co Cavan. Turning lanes would be needed for Glanbia, Lakeside Manor hotel and probably the turnoff for Fleetwood. There is also a fairly old looking bridge that needs widening or replacing.

I remember them doing work from Virginia to that bridge to add these cycle tracks or walkways (?) which seem pointless in 100km/h zone and usually end up over grown for the most part

jhenno78

Freddypaccman wrote: »

I remember them doing work from Virginia to that bridge to add these cycle tracks or walkways (?) which seem pointless in 100km/h zone and usually end up over grown for the most part

I don't know if you've been back there since, but you're spot on with the prediction. There's only about 30cm of space along most of those cycle-tracks.

Alkers

jhenno78 wrote:

I don't know if you've been back there since, but you're spot on with the prediction. There's only about 30cm of space along most of those cycle-tracks.

Are they actually cycle tracks? I thought they were just to narrow the carriageway with a hope of slowing speed?

Freddypaccman

Simona1986 wrote: »

Are they actually cycle tracks? I thought they were just to narrow the carriageway with a hope of slowing speed?

I know the the road like the back of my hand but I actually no idea what they're for

marno21

Based on a recent TII presentation where they outlined what was left out of the National Development Plan, it seems as if this scheme will be from the end of the N3/M3 dual carraigeway as far as The Poles. Which is good news. This is approx 30km of N3 up for dualling/replacement.

Standard Toaster

marno21 wrote: »

Based on a recent TII presentation where they outlined what was left out of the National Development Plan, it seems as if this scheme will be from the end of the N3/M3 dual carraigeway as far as The Poles. Which is good news. This is approx 30km of N3 up for dualling/replacement.

Any proposed routes/maps yet?
Still north of Lough Ramour?

betistuc

marno21 wrote: »

Based on a recent TII presentation where they outlined what was left out of the National Development Plan, it seems as if this scheme will be from the end of the N3/M3 dual carraigeway as far as The Poles. Which is good news. This is approx 30km of N3 up for dualling/replacement.

This is welcome news Marno! This is my route to Dublin. However it seems a bit strange they would terminate at the Poles ( I assume you are referring to the Poles co-op area) when just a few hills away is the Cavan bypass.

Are they planning flyovers or roundabouts at the junctions?

marno21

betistuc wrote: »

This is welcome news Marno! This is my route to Dublin. However it seems a bit strange they would terminate at the Poles ( I assume you are referring to the Poles co-op area) when just a few hills away is the Cavan bypass.

Are they planning flyovers or roundabouts at the junctions?

I presume it will terminate at the Cavan bypass, where Cavan traffic will drop off.

Details on alignment/junctions etc are a long way off. All we know so far is what stretches of road (not fully confirmed yet) are up for replacement.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

I presume it will terminate at the Cavan bypass, where Cavan traffic will drop off.

Details on alignment/junctions etc are a long way off. All we know so far is what stretches of road (not fully confirmed yet) are up for replacement.

I wonder if it is dual as far as poles is there a long term plan for a new road to veer right and tie in with the N3 up near buttlers bridge And bypass Cavan town all together

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

I wonder if it is dual as far as poles is there a long term plan for a new road to veer right and tie in with the N3 up near buttlers bridge And bypass Cavan town all together

Could very well be that. The Poles-Butlers Bridge is a post 2027 project by TII.

jhenno78

marno21 wrote: »

Based on a recent TII presentation where they outlined what was left out of the National Development Plan, it seems as if this scheme will be from the end of the N3/M3 dual carraigeway as far as The Poles. Which is good news. This is approx 30km of N3 up for dualling/replacement.

If they're going to dual it then won't they need a completely new alignment? Kind of surprised if they're planning such a major project for the stretch - the amount of one-off housing and general topography would make it a challenge.

The logic of not going past Poles would be that the 1.5km from there to the Dublin Road Roundabout is a built-up 50km zone and couldn't be upgraded with on the current alignment - so presumably not considered financially viable, but if that isn't then a new alignment for the other 30km isn't either...which suggests to me this going to be a virgina bypass with occasional realignments and maybe a stretch or two or 2+1 or climbing lane.

jhenno78

roadmaster wrote: »

I wonder if it is dual as far as poles is there a long term plan for a new road to veer right and tie in with the N3 up near buttlers bridge And bypass Cavan town all together

But Cavan is bypassed!

Anyway...a new alignment wouldn't need to go further North than the Cootehill Rd. overpass, it could go South either and tie in with the n55.

The n3 north of the Dublin Road Roundabout is all pretty good quality and doesn't really need improvement...though the turn from the n54 onto the n3 at Butlersbridge gives rise to some pants-stainingly bad driving.

Kermit.de.frog

The end of the M3 is designed to facilitate continuation of the motorway with a half built dumbell interchange currently.

So just continue the motorway to Poles.

BelfastVanMan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The end of the M3 is designed to facilitate continuation of the motorway with a half built dumbell interchange currently.

So just continue the motorway to Poles.

I often wondered why it was built this way; I mean, if you're going to bother continuing the road as a Type 2 DC, why have the terminus of the M3 like this?
Why didn't they continue the Motorway to DC as a freeflow, and utilise the full junction?

roadmaster

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

I often wondered why it was built this way; I mean, if you're going to bother continuing the road as a Type 2 DC, why have the terminus of the M3 like this?
Why didn't they continue the Motorway to DC as a freeflow, and utilise the full junction?

How they did not incorporate the junction at whitegate in to a safe design is beyond me when they where building the road. I would say penny pinching would have a lot to do with non motorway for this section. They would have had to build a full overpass and slip roads where the N52 meets the N3/M3 instead they got away with a couple of roundabouts . This could have being solved by pulling junction ten further down and it could of being used for both access to the M3/N52 and access to kells north and south. it would have being awkward with land take but it still would have being achievable

marno21

It's too early to say for sure but I imagine it'll be Type 2 DC from Whitegate to the Poles. Only to the Poles because any future dualling north of there won't be going any closer to Cavan.

It's ridiculous that they built a half dumbell junction at the end of the M3 yet a few miles up the road there's an at grade roundabout to service an R road.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

It's too early to say for sure but I imagine it'll be Type 2 DC from Whitegate to the Poles. Only to the Poles because any future dualling north of there won't be going any closer to Cavan.

It's ridiculous that they built a half dumbell junction at the end of the M3 yet a few miles up the road there's an at grade roundabout to service an R road.

If its the R163 you are talking about i believe there was a lot pressure from industry in the area to have access on to the then new N3/M3 . The likes of Floods and Kelletts have a serious amount of HGVS coming from the oldcastle direction

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

If its the R163 you are talking about i believe there was a lot pressure from industry in the area to have access on to the then new N3/M3 . The likes of Floods and Kelletts have a serious amount of HGVS coming from the oldcastle direction

I agree with there being a N3/R163 junction to be fair, but I don't see the point of half building a future grade seperated junction at one location and then throwing in an at grade roundabout a few miles up the road. The N3/R163 junction should have been grade seperated, the roundabout further up at Whitegate can be dealt with as part of this scheme.

BelfastVanMan

marno21 wrote: »

roadmaster wrote: »

If its the R163 you are talking about i believe there was a lot pressure from industry in the area to have access on to the then new N3/M3 . The likes of Floods and Kelletts have a serious amount of HGVS coming from the oldcastle direction

I agree with there being a N3/R163 junction to be fair, but I don't see the point of half building a future grade seperated junction at one location and then throwing in an at grade roundabout a few miles up the road. The N3/R163 junction should have been grade seperated, the roundabout further up at Whitegate can be dealt with as part of this scheme.

This is exactly what I was thinking...

Bummer1234

Hi Guys, Seen on the celt wasn't sure if it was last week or the week before about all the plans that so far have been put together had to be thrown out and restarted....Anyone know much about this?

(It was on the hard copy of the celt...I can;t find anything online about it)

marno21

Shane Ross wrote:

I can advise that the continuation of the M3 motorway to Cavan Town it is not referred to in the pipeline of projects outlined in the National Development Plan (NDP).

However, the N3 Virginia Bypass Scheme is included among the pre-appraisal/early planning pipeline of projects in the NDP This scheme has been identified as a Strategic Investment Priority in the National Planning Framework (NPF) and NDP.

The proposed scheme will seek to remove the current inefficiencies of the existing road in terms of safety, capacity, and travel times. It is envisaged that it would also have a number of important benefits including:

- Support economic growth by increasing network capacity and reducing travel times between Dublin and the Northwest;

- Improved Road Safety by reducing frequency and severity of collisions thereby contributing to the Road Safety Authority target of no more than 25 fatalities per million population by 2020;

- Environmental improvements in noise, air and water quality for Virginia Town and Lough Ramor (proposed Natural Heritage Area);

- Improved access to the National Road network for the towns of Ballyjamesduff and Bailieborough.

The project pre-appraisal plan for the Virginia Bypass has been approved by the economic evaluation unit within my Department and TII has provided an allocation of €600k to Cavan County Council this year to progress planning and design work on the project. Cavan County Council has advertised the tender competition for Technical Consultancy Services to progress the scheme through phases 1-4 of the Project Management Guidelines and expect to receive the tenders on 21st May 2019.

This was scheduled to occur yesterday and my Department will receive an up-date on the outcome of that process in due course.

Design & planning to start on this imminently.

I still don't understand how long the scheme will be or where it will start and end.

Pete_Cavan

marno21 wrote: »

I still don't understand how long the scheme will be or where it will start and end.

Would that not be determined as part of the consultancy appointment referred to above?

annfield1978

project is out to tender for consultants for Phase 1 to 4 at present

Nidgeweasel

marno21 wrote: »

Design & planning to start on this imminently.

I still don't understand how long the scheme will be or where it will start and end.

Donegal would do.

roadmaster

I believe at the moment a tender is being worked on for safety improvements around Glanbia. If that is the case could the bypass be along time away yet?

road_high

roadmaster wrote: »

I believe at the moment a tender is being worked on for safety improvements around Glanbia. If that is the case could the bypass be along time away yet?

It is a long time off. May as well make the most of the existing road in the meantime

Nidgeweasel

Has a consultant been appointed yet?

marno21

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Has a consultant been appointed yet?

There hasn’t been any official announcement on it yet

annfield1978

marno21 wrote: »

There hasn’t been any official announcement on it yet

One from Arup, Atkins, Fehily Timoney, TOBIN or AECOM/ ROD

munchkin_utd

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Has a consultant been appointed yet?

yep !
https://www.northernsound.ie/consultant-appointed-begin-planning-design-viriginia-bypass/

A consultant has been appointed to begin the planning and design of the Viriginia Bypass.

JB Barry Transportation will act as technical advisors on the scheme for Cavan County Council.

They will provide the engineering, environmental, economic and appraisal services to deliver the project.

Cavan County Council has previously said the new bypass will be essential in relieving congestion in Virginia, and will also open up the whole county for development.

roady rhodes

Anyone know what sort of time frame till completion?

I mean are we talking a couple of years or 5-10 years?

Jegger

roady rhodes wrote: »

Anyone know what sort of time frame till completion?

I mean are we talking a couple of years or 5-10 years?

10 years

2019-10-05 14.22.26-1.jpg

marno21

Looks like this will be a fairly simple 2+2 extension of the N3 from the end of the Clonee-Kells scheme to north of Virginia, around 15km in length. If that’s the case, the big ticket scheme all the way to Cavan has been binned.

Nidgeweasel

marno21 wrote: »

Looks like this will be a fairly simple 2+2 extension of the N3 from the end of the Clonee-Kells scheme to north of Virginia, around 15km in length. If that’s the case, the big ticket scheme all the way to Cavan has been binned.

Very frustrating if that is the case. The Cavan - Virginia road as a single lane carriageway is shocking and quite frankly dangerous. It's a busy road with freight transport.

marno21

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Very frustrating if that is the case. The Cavan - Virginia road as a single lane carriageway is shocking and quite frankly dangerous. It's a busy road with freight transport.

Indeed. The big ticket project is 46km and would cost €500m or so.

It could be the case that TII are being pragmatic and see more chance of a 15km scheme going ahead in the medium term

There’s also 70km of N2 upgrades planned and 70km of N4 upgrades so they may also have been seeking more geographic distribution of funds

BelfastVanMan

marno21 wrote: »

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Very frustrating if that is the case. The Cavan - Virginia road as a single lane carriageway is shocking and quite frankly dangerous. It's a busy road with freight transport.

Indeed. The big ticket project is 46km and would cost €500m or so.

It could be the case that TII are being pragmatic and see more chance of a 15km scheme going ahead in the medium term

There’s also 70km of N2 upgrades planned and 70km of N4 upgrades so they may also have been seeking more geographic distribution of funds

Certainly sounds plausible.

And as well, with so much substandard N2 and N4 to replace, the Type 1 SC and WS2 that makes up the N3 from north of Virginia as far as the border really looks like rather good standard road by comparison.