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N3 - Virginia Bypass [route options published]

marno21

TII have confirmed that the Virginia bypass is back on the table and will be reactivated in 2018.

It is unclear whether this will be part of a wider Kells-Cavan town scheme or an isolated bypass

Either way, good news.

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Freddypaccman

This will definitely be a help. Word on the street is that a Kells-Cavan dc could potentially run southwest of Lough Ramor and between Virginia and Oldcastle, possibly running parallel to the R154 to serve Ballyjamesduff and Kilnaleck before turning towards Cavan tying in with Cavan bypass via the N55 section that opened in 2006. If this is the case, a Virginia bypass could be just a relief I'd guess.

This is what is on the TII website re N3 Kells to Cavan. Quite vague with a northern tie in from South of Cavan to North of Butlersbridge. Possibly includes upgrading Cavan Bypass

The scheme involves the improvement / replacement of a section of the N3 from a location south of the Cavan / Meath County boundary (in the townland of Derver, County Meath), to an appropriate location on the existing network between the townlands of Thomas Court or Drumroosk and Kilnaleck, Butlersbridge County Cavan, a potential distance of 46km.

http://www.tii.ie/projects/road-schemes/#70

That would be long way off so any form of Virginia bp would be welcome if it could be built quick enough.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

TII have confirmed that the Virginia bypass is back on the table and will be reactivated in 2018.

It is unclear whether this will be part of a wider Kells-Cavan town scheme or an isolated bypass

Either way, good news.

Jesus Marno you are like santy this evening with all the good news your delivering!

Middle Man

Agree, Marno is doing a quite whopper tonight!

munchkin_utd

I cant see it being part of a (border-) Cavan - virginia investigation like it was before everything was stopped.

That was an opportunist stroke by Cavan County council (changing scope of virgina by pass to a Kells to Fermanagh super highway) which backfired

best get Virginia by pass built along with the needed roads north and south of the town itsself.

roadmaster

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I cant see it being part of a (border-) Cavan - virginia investigation like it was before everything was stopped.

That was an opportunist stroke by Cavan County council (changing scope of virgina by pass to a Kells to Fermanagh super highway) which backfired

best get Virginia by pass built along with the needed roads north and south of the town itsself.

Was it simply down to cost that we got Type 2 instead of motorway from kells to whitegate? when you say the super highway was Virginia originally included in the M3 project at some stage pre tender stage?

munchkin_utd

roadmaster wrote: »

Was it simply down to cost that we got Type 2 instead of motorway from kells to whitegate? when you say the super highway was Virginia originally included in the M3 project at some stage pre tender stage?

nah, the Virginia project was originally a relatively modest and digestable bypass on its own, but then Cavan Co Co had their speak and it was then changed to a 38km long scheme instead, starting from scratch!

Heres a thread I started on the matter, where you'll see that the council stated in 2009 that "The proposed Virginia Bypass Scheme is now superseded by the N3 Edenburt to Cavan Bypass Project. "
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64204573

The NRA project status at the time indicated the scale of the new project, and (lack of) progress.

N3 North of Kells to Cavan
Description: The proposed scheme involves the realignment of the existing N3 from Edenburt (Cavan.Meath County Boundary) to the Cavan Bypass.
Mainline Length (km): 38km
Current Project Phase: Feasibility Study

marno21

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/07/18/4159024-virginia-bypass-route-not-decided/

Article on the Virginia bypass in the Anglo Celt. Pre-appraisal of project to be complete for early 2019 (yes...)

road_high

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I cant see it being part of a (border-) Cavan - virginia investigation like it was before everything was stopped.

That was an opportunist stroke by Cavan County council (changing scope of virgina by pass to a Kells to Fermanagh super highway) which backfired

best get Virginia by pass built along with the needed roads north and south of the town itsself.

Beyond Virginia itself the N3 is very good to the Fermanagh border. All wide carriageway with hard shoulders. If they want to improve on things why not put in climbing lanes in places. The traffic volumes don’t appear all that heavy and this was a friday afternoon. Seemed far quieter than the N4 for example and no villages to pass through

roadmaster

Following on from Marno's update i see apart from the virginia bypass there is also a scheme for road between Virginia and Maghera which give or take a few meters will be a 5km project. i wonder why this has not being pulled as far as the end of the dual carriageway as it is only 3km away?

roadmaster

road_high wrote: »

Beyond Virginia itself the N3 is very good to the Fermanagh border. All wide carriageway with hard shoulders. If they want to improve on things why not put in climbing lanes in places. The traffic volumes don’t appear all that heavy and this was a friday afternoon. Seemed far quieter than the N4 for example and no villages to pass through

It can be very heavy at times, One reason i would make it 2+2 is there is generally enough room and it would stop the mad over taking.Its a miracle no serious crashes has happened.

BelfastVanMan

roadmaster wrote: »

Following on from Marno's update i see apart from the virginia bypass there is also a scheme for road between Virginia and Maghera which give or take a few meters will be a 5km project. i wonder why this has not being pulled as far as the end of the dual carriageway as it is only 3km away?

I may be wrong, but from memory, the last 3kms of the N3 before the start of the 2+2 Kells Bypass is of Type 1 SC standard (or equivalent).

Can anyone else confirm this, or am I going senile? :-D

roadmaster

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

I may be wrong, but from memory, the last 3kms of the N3 before the start of the 2+2 Kells Bypass is of Type 1 SC standard (or equivalent).

Can anyone else confirm this, or am I going senile? :-D

yip its wide single carriageway with hard shoulders but between white gate and the roundabout going south is tight in places. when built it was nuts that the junction at the filling station was not some how incorporated back to the roundabout for safety

BelfastVanMan

roadmaster wrote: »

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

I may be wrong, but from memory, the last 3kms of the N3 before the start of the 2+2 Kells Bypass is of Type 1 SC standard (or equivalent).

Can anyone else confirm this, or am I going senile? :-D

yip its wide single carriageway with hard shoulders but between white gate and the roundabout going south is tight in places. when built it was nuts that the junction at the filling station was not some how incorporated back to the roundabout for safety

Right enough, I know exactly where you mean, now.
Hopefully some localised widening can solve this.
I won't holdy breath...

jhenno78

roadmaster wrote: »

when built it was nuts that the junction at the filling station was not some how incorporated back to the roundabout for safety

I've always suspected that when the M3 was planned the designers had it in their heads that HQDC would be built to Cavan at a later date along a more southernly route to bypass all the villages/accesses along the way and the built-up section of N3 coming into Cavan.
Something like this:

*not saying they should or that it would be justified BTW. While it would be a neater solution, there's obviously about 50 other projects more worthy of that kind of spend - just sharing my theory.

Freddypaccman

roadmaster wrote: »

Following on from Marno's update i see apart from the virginia bypass there is also a scheme for road between Virginia and Maghera which give or take a few meters will be a 5km project. i wonder why this has not being pulled as far as the end of the dual carriageway as it is only 3km away?

I reckon this Virginia to Maghera scheme would just add proper hard shoulders like the rest of the N3 in Co Cavan. Turning lanes would be needed for Glanbia, Lakeside Manor hotel and probably the turnoff for Fleetwood. There is also a fairly old looking bridge that needs widening or replacing.

I remember them doing work from Virginia to that bridge to add these cycle tracks or walkways (?) which seem pointless in 100km/h zone and usually end up over grown for the most part

jhenno78

Freddypaccman wrote: »

I remember them doing work from Virginia to that bridge to add these cycle tracks or walkways (?) which seem pointless in 100km/h zone and usually end up over grown for the most part

I don't know if you've been back there since, but you're spot on with the prediction. There's only about 30cm of space along most of those cycle-tracks.

Alkers

jhenno78 wrote:

I don't know if you've been back there since, but you're spot on with the prediction. There's only about 30cm of space along most of those cycle-tracks.

Are they actually cycle tracks? I thought they were just to narrow the carriageway with a hope of slowing speed?

Freddypaccman

Simona1986 wrote: »

Are they actually cycle tracks? I thought they were just to narrow the carriageway with a hope of slowing speed?

I know the the road like the back of my hand but I actually no idea what they're for

marno21

Based on a recent TII presentation where they outlined what was left out of the National Development Plan, it seems as if this scheme will be from the end of the N3/M3 dual carraigeway as far as The Poles. Which is good news. This is approx 30km of N3 up for dualling/replacement.

Standard Toaster

marno21 wrote: »

Based on a recent TII presentation where they outlined what was left out of the National Development Plan, it seems as if this scheme will be from the end of the N3/M3 dual carraigeway as far as The Poles. Which is good news. This is approx 30km of N3 up for dualling/replacement.

Any proposed routes/maps yet?
Still north of Lough Ramour?

betistuc

marno21 wrote: »

Based on a recent TII presentation where they outlined what was left out of the National Development Plan, it seems as if this scheme will be from the end of the N3/M3 dual carraigeway as far as The Poles. Which is good news. This is approx 30km of N3 up for dualling/replacement.

This is welcome news Marno! This is my route to Dublin. However it seems a bit strange they would terminate at the Poles ( I assume you are referring to the Poles co-op area) when just a few hills away is the Cavan bypass.

Are they planning flyovers or roundabouts at the junctions?

marno21

betistuc wrote: »

This is welcome news Marno! This is my route to Dublin. However it seems a bit strange they would terminate at the Poles ( I assume you are referring to the Poles co-op area) when just a few hills away is the Cavan bypass.

Are they planning flyovers or roundabouts at the junctions?

I presume it will terminate at the Cavan bypass, where Cavan traffic will drop off.

Details on alignment/junctions etc are a long way off. All we know so far is what stretches of road (not fully confirmed yet) are up for replacement.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

I presume it will terminate at the Cavan bypass, where Cavan traffic will drop off.

Details on alignment/junctions etc are a long way off. All we know so far is what stretches of road (not fully confirmed yet) are up for replacement.

I wonder if it is dual as far as poles is there a long term plan for a new road to veer right and tie in with the N3 up near buttlers bridge And bypass Cavan town all together

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

I wonder if it is dual as far as poles is there a long term plan for a new road to veer right and tie in with the N3 up near buttlers bridge And bypass Cavan town all together

Could very well be that. The Poles-Butlers Bridge is a post 2027 project by TII.

jhenno78

marno21 wrote: »

Based on a recent TII presentation where they outlined what was left out of the National Development Plan, it seems as if this scheme will be from the end of the N3/M3 dual carraigeway as far as The Poles. Which is good news. This is approx 30km of N3 up for dualling/replacement.

If they're going to dual it then won't they need a completely new alignment? Kind of surprised if they're planning such a major project for the stretch - the amount of one-off housing and general topography would make it a challenge.

The logic of not going past Poles would be that the 1.5km from there to the Dublin Road Roundabout is a built-up 50km zone and couldn't be upgraded with on the current alignment - so presumably not considered financially viable, but if that isn't then a new alignment for the other 30km isn't either...which suggests to me this going to be a virgina bypass with occasional realignments and maybe a stretch or two or 2+1 or climbing lane.

jhenno78

roadmaster wrote: »

I wonder if it is dual as far as poles is there a long term plan for a new road to veer right and tie in with the N3 up near buttlers bridge And bypass Cavan town all together

But Cavan is bypassed!

Anyway...a new alignment wouldn't need to go further North than the Cootehill Rd. overpass, it could go South either and tie in with the n55.

The n3 north of the Dublin Road Roundabout is all pretty good quality and doesn't really need improvement...though the turn from the n54 onto the n3 at Butlersbridge gives rise to some pants-stainingly bad driving.

Kermit.de.frog

The end of the M3 is designed to facilitate continuation of the motorway with a half built dumbell interchange currently.

So just continue the motorway to Poles.

BelfastVanMan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The end of the M3 is designed to facilitate continuation of the motorway with a half built dumbell interchange currently.

So just continue the motorway to Poles.

I often wondered why it was built this way; I mean, if you're going to bother continuing the road as a Type 2 DC, why have the terminus of the M3 like this?
Why didn't they continue the Motorway to DC as a freeflow, and utilise the full junction?

roadmaster

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

I often wondered why it was built this way; I mean, if you're going to bother continuing the road as a Type 2 DC, why have the terminus of the M3 like this?
Why didn't they continue the Motorway to DC as a freeflow, and utilise the full junction?

How they did not incorporate the junction at whitegate in to a safe design is beyond me when they where building the road. I would say penny pinching would have a lot to do with non motorway for this section. They would have had to build a full overpass and slip roads where the N52 meets the N3/M3 instead they got away with a couple of roundabouts . This could have being solved by pulling junction ten further down and it could of being used for both access to the M3/N52 and access to kells north and south. it would have being awkward with land take but it still would have being achievable

marno21

It's too early to say for sure but I imagine it'll be Type 2 DC from Whitegate to the Poles. Only to the Poles because any future dualling north of there won't be going any closer to Cavan.

It's ridiculous that they built a half dumbell junction at the end of the M3 yet a few miles up the road there's an at grade roundabout to service an R road.