Limerick GAA Discussion Part 2

mountgomery burns

So he was dropped for the 4 knockout games they played, that's pretty much the season let's be honest about it. I see your point, but in fairness what's the point in bringing back a panel player who could add disharmony and offers nothing on the field? Maybe from a Dublin perspective having just won 5 all Ireland in a row and having significant depth it's much of a muchness, but to Tipp dropping arguably their best defender from their weakest line was a major decision.

If Limerick drop Gillane for the championship next year, it'll be a big call. Just like Tipps was. And in fairness, be pretty stupid of any manager to decide to write off a young player based on his off the field stupidity and not give him a second chance to smarten up.

ProudDUB

mountgomery burns wrote: »

So he was dropped for the 4 knockout games they played, that's pretty much the season let's be honest about it. I see your point, but in fairness what's the point in bringing back a panel player who could add disharmony and offers nothing on the field? Maybe from a Dublin perspective having just won 5 all Ireland in a row and having significant depth it's much of a muchness, but to Tipp dropping arguably their best defender from their weakest line was a major decision.

If Limerick drop Gillane for the championship next year, it'll be a big call. Just like Tipps was. And in fairness, be pretty stupid of any manager to decide to write off a young player based on his off the field stupidity and not give him a second chance to smarten up.

G'wan away out of that. Tipp have been in 5 All Ireland's this decade - only 2 fewer than Dublin. Don't be playing the poor mouth now. It's Tipperary we're talking about, not Carlow or Leitrim.

On the writing players off and second chances, that would be directly proportional to the value that the player brings to the team imo. I'm just being realistic.

mountgomery burns

ProudDUB wrote: »

G'wan away out of that. Tipp have been in 5 All Ireland's this decade - only 2 fewer than Dublin. Don't be playing the poor mouth now. It's Tipperary we're talking about, not Carlow or Leitrim.

On the writing players off and second chances, that would be directly proportional to the value that the player brings to the team imo. I'm just being realistic.

For a key player, dropping him from the panel is always a big call regardless of the circumstances. My opinion anyway. All I'm saying about this situation is if they were too drop Gillane for the championship, their best forward, it would be a big decision for next year that they might look back on with regret. Maybe you took offense to the Dublin bit, you shouldn't and I'd point out there's a big difference between Tipp dropping Barrett and Dublin dropping Connolly relative to what was their to cover.

Agreed on the second part, though if a former fringe player was lighting up the club championship you'd likely see the second chance extended to him I reckon.

ProudDUB

mountgomery burns wrote: »

For a key player, dropping him from the panel is always a big call regardless of the circumstances. My opinion anyway. All I'm saying about this situation is if they were too drop Gillane for the championship, their best forward, it would be a big decision for next year that they might look back on with regret. Maybe you took offense to the Dublin bit, you shouldn't and I'd point out there's a big difference between Tipp dropping Barrett and Dublin dropping Connolly relative to what was their to cover.

Agreed on the second part, though if a former fringe player was lighting up the club championship you'd likely see the second chance extended to him I reckon.

No. I didn't take offense at all. Tipperary are one of the Big 3. It's a hurling obsessed county. I just don't think it's a valid comparison in terms of Dublin vs an up and coming county trying to make the breakthrough, especially as Tipp were already All Ireland champions when Barrett was dropped.

billyhead

Gillane wont be dropped. Too big of a call to make and if Limerick failed next year fans would be calling for Kielys head blaming dropping Gillane as one of the reasons. He will get a good bollicking it will be dealt with in house and that will be the end of it. ( I hope anyway);)

Powerhouse

ProudDUB wrote: »

He was dropped in May 2017 & rejoined the panel in October 2017. A five month banishment hardly constitutes serious punishment in the grand scheme of things. Would he have been welcomed back at all, if he wasn't such a good hurler? That is my point. Not having a go at Tipp or the lad in question btw. This happens in all counties imo, even my own.

The point I made was that he was dropped in the first place despite being an All Star which you neglected to mention explicitly and I think that's important. Here was a manager who made that call. Whether people agree with it or not is irrelevant. There was a manager who had the cojones to not instinctively go for the fudge solution.

Would he have been welcomed back if he wasn't such a talent? That's a strange question really considering that presumably Tipp choose all their players on ability. Why should Cathal Barrett be different?

Grats

Plus Barrett was injured!

Supporters would abhor what players, like Barrett, get up to. But all is soon forgotten when success comes. The same will apply to Limerick. Whether, or not, players serious misdemeanours should be forgotten so quickly is another matter.

ProudDUB

Powerhouse wrote: »

The point I made was that he was dropped in the first place despite being an All Star which you neglected to mention explicitly and I think that's important. Here was a manager who made that call. Whether people agree with it or not is irrelevant. There was a manager who had the cojones to not instinctively go for the fudge solution.

Would he have been welcomed back if he wasn't such a talent? That's a strange question really considering that presumably Tipp choose all their players on ability. Why should Cathal Barrett be different?

I said he was an All Star in my very first post on all this. Not sure what you think I'm deliberately neglecting to mention.

mountgomery burns

ProudDUB wrote: »

No. I didn't take offense at all. Tipperary are one of the Big 3. It's a hurling obsessed county. I just don't think it's a valid comparison in terms of Dublin vs an up and coming county trying to make the breakthrough, especially as Tipp were already All Ireland champions when Barrett was dropped.

Right but I never mentioned an up and coming county, note they haven't won back to back all Ireland's since the 60s and that was their 2nd in 15 years it's valid I think. It was a massive call at the time and it's grand in hindsight, they won an all Ireland a couple of years later sure no harm done but they might have won an all Ireland with him and that's the call Michael Ryan had to make. I'd say it was the right call in hindsight in that he's back hurling brilliantly for them, but who could have known that then?

Imagine one of yer prominent players was dropped this year for disciplinary issues and ye lost the final by point, losing out on 5 in a row. Do you not think people would be debating it as a major call for years to come?

Regardless of Tipp or Dublin, I'll say again dropping Gillane for any part of next year's championship purely for what happened in New York would be a massive call. But I agree with you, I'd say he'll serve penance before the real hurling starts and it'll all be forgotten about in time.

Powerhouse

billyhead wrote: »

Gillane wont be dropped. Too big of a call to make and if Limerick failed next year fans would be calling for Kielys head blaming dropping Gillane as one of the reasons. He will get a good bollicking it will be dealt with in house and that will be the end of it. ( I hope anyway);)

I think Kiely would be very foolish to make an issue of this with Gillane and he won't either. The problem from a management perspective is that like the Cathal Barrett situation it would always be there in the background waiting to pounce on you once you are beaten. Tipp lost an All Ireland semi final by one point without Barrett. Inevitably there are those who would still maintain that he might have made to that much difference at least. So the manager has little to gain by dropping the player.

Also it's November now, next June it'll be like the Cathal Barrett one, people will have to take to Google to remind themselves of the detail. If he's dropped that won't be the case. But if course there are other issues facing the Limerick squad anyway. In the longer run a gob****e probably addicted to social media who sacrificed his team to feed that need might be small beer.

Powerhouse

ProudDUB wrote: »

I said he was an All Star in my very first post on all this. Not sure what you think I'm deliberately neglecting to mention.

Never said you neglected to mention he was an All Star. When asking if he would have been allowed back if he wasn't a star player you neglected the obvious point that his star status didn't prevent him being dropped in the first instance. That rendered you question null and void in my view as your implied questioning of the manager's stomach for a difficult decision had been answered already.

billyhead

Gillane was just immature and naive. He will learn his lesson from this and that will be the end of the matter.Next years a big year for the team. So much competition now in Munster and Galway and the Cats are waiting in the long grass.

PhilOssophy

Think everything being blown out of proportion. Young lads go away for a weekend, after a few pints somebody gets in a row with somebody, sometimes even their close friends. This happens the length and breath of the country and sometimes people do things they later regret.
Recording it was wrong, and it is a real problem in our society that for so many people the default is to reach for the phone rather than stop the fight. Posting it on social media is idiotic, people need to stop recording stuff and cop on.
Gillane should absolutely be hurling from Limerick next year. As should the rest of them. I saw a message earlier which mentioned a row between a players mother and John Kiely, FFS who goes to the bother of penning this stuff? Whether or not it is true is irrelevant, and good on the mother for sticking up for her son - I would do the same.
If players are in trouble for assault, let the authorities deal with it and they should do just that.
But for me, all this sharing stuff that goes on online, whether true or not, is unfair to those involved where there may not be truth, may be exaggerations, etc.
Yes the players need to be educated as to their conduct. Yes they should not record and share. But seriously, people need to get a grip.
(I am not from Limerick by the way and probably don't know the full story, but I know one thing, I was young once and am glad there was no phones around because while I never hit anybody, I did plenty of stupid things when I was drunk which would now be recorded and shared rather than laughed at for the fun that they were).

ProudDUB

Powerhouse wrote: »

Never said you neglected to mention he was an All Star. When asking if he would have been allowed back if he wasn't a star player you neglected the obvious point that his star status didn't prevent him being dropped in the first instance. That rendered you question null and void in my view as your implied questioning of the manager's stomach for a difficult decision had been answered already.

Boy, that's a lot of over the top conclusions you are jumping to based on very little.

I didn't say or imply that manager lacked the stomach to drop him. Nor did I say that dropping Barrett wasn't a big deal. Please don't put words in my mouth. Regardless of what did or did not happen in Tipp's 2017 campaign, a 5 month suspension is not a long time, compared to a player that is dropped for good. That is what I said.

Whether a player that gets involved in off the field stuff is dropped for good, or just part of a season, will be dictated by how good he is & how much value he brings to the squad. That is also what I said. Not really sure how I can be any clearer.

seligehgit

Powerhouse wrote: »

In my experience other counties tend to argue that commentary or nature of the reportage is sometimes unfair. You appear to be claiming that some of the actual actions are okay. I think that is different alright. Might be a good time for a little contriteness and humility instead.

To reiterate another poster's commentary nowhere did the poster you quoted state any of the actions were acceptable.

Please desist from the trolling.

Powerhouse

ProudDUB wrote: »

Whether a player that gets involved in off the field stuff is dropped for good, or just part of a season, will be dictated by how good he is & how much value he brings to the squad. .

Not sure why you keep saying that - that's stupid-obvious stuff. Any player is called into a squad on day one based on how good he is and the perceived value he brings to the squad. Why on earth is it even a talking point when the same criteria are used to judge his retention on the squad or his recall if he has been outside the camp.

In considering the value of a player to a squad even in the context of a disciplinary issue a manager is being entirely consistent. Should there be any other measure considered?

Powerhouse

seligehgit wrote: »

To reiterate another poster's commentary nowhere did the poster you quoted state any of the actions were acceptable.

Please desist from the trolling.

I'll desist from the posting altogether instead if some report from a snowflake makes my comment amount to trolling.

seligehgit

Walter.White wrote: »

People can go over and back about whats the worst thing that happened , stuff happened and at the end of the day these lads are amateurs and I'm sure management will take appropriate action in each case and they'll face consequences. They've left management down and I'm sure They'll be punished, some have already. Whether the players from new York will get a league ban or a ban for the year. They'll learn lessons. The whole group got punished with the cancelling of the medals presentation.

It's upto other lads to stake a place in the team and push on with the opportunities that will be available. The lads will realise their mistakes when they are watching on from the crowd and hopefully will better themselves in the future.

A most welcome and grounded in sense post.

Mehapoy

An awful lot of posters have just decided to pop up and all know chapter and verse on every issue in limerick hurling, not one post when the limerick club championship was in train though since last August!
Anyway i'd like to wish Paul Browne the best in his retirement, a great servant who got his start in the bad old days of Justin McCartys reign. Was an ever present as Limerick got back to winning munster and appearimg in all ireland semis, would have been part of the 2018 starting team only for injury.

windy shepard henderson

Mehapoy wrote: »

An awful lot of posters have just decided to pop up and all know chapter and verse on every issue in limerick hurling, not one post when the limerick club championship was in train though since last August!
Anyway i'd like to wish Paul Browne the best in his retirement, a great servant who got his start in the bad old days of Justin McCartys reign. Was an ever present as Limerick got back to winning munster and appearimg in all ireland semis, would have been part of the 2018 starting team only for injury.

i felt he picked the best time to go , when the spotlight was somewhere else , he was never a player for it but got on with his job brilliantly and an excellent midfielder

in relation to the weeks events , i think limerick are in fairly good hands to deal with the situation with kiely in charge , this will be well forgotten about next may in fairness

conor05

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i felt he picked the best time to go , when the spotlight was somewhere else , he was never a player for it but got on with his job brilliantly and an excellent midfielder

in relation to the weeks events , i think limerick are in fairly good hands to deal with the situation with kiely in charge , this will be well forgotten about next may in fairness

Only time will tell. If they have a poor year you can be sure as hell it won’t be forgotten about

djfern84

Gillane has to go broke the trust of his team mates how can they rely on him if they cant trust him . Might sound stupid but trusting your team mates is on of the most important aspects of being a team who's gonna trust that lad now

billyhead

djfern84 wrote: »

Gillane has to go broke the trust of his team mates how can they rely on him if they cant trust him . Might sound stupid but trusting your team mates is on of the most important aspects of being a team who's gonna trust that lad now

He will be made apologize to the whole squad and they ill move on. He would be a bog loss if he was booted from the panel so I don't think that will happen. He will learn from this.

BloodyBill

billyhead wrote: »

He will be made apologize to the whole squad and they ill move on. He would be a bog loss if he was booted from the panel so I don't think that will happen. He will learn from this.

Gillane will be dropped and deserves what he gets. If he gets the entire year or not I do not know. We as Irish people are great at starting trouble but not so great at taking the consequences. It's like our politicians who refuse to resign. Take your medicine and set a precedent. You can come back down the line but there must be punishment.
If the Limerick boys were part of the Munster academy they'd be let go. The Limerick rugby teams never let themselves down like this. But I do recognize that every team need risk takers and fighters. So it will be forgotten in time but the hurlers have to be made an example of now.

threeball

Is Kyle Hayes in bother now for an assault in a limerick nightclub. Bad week for the limerick Hurlers if true. Pictures I saw of the other lad weren't good.

bigdaddymac

Feel sorry for the supporters of limerick and those players that tried their best but never got the even chance to wear the jersey and have to watch clowns undermine people’s graft and sacrifice.

John Kiely seems like a very honorable intelligent man and I really hope these players are disciplined severely why? This behavior can become engrained for years to come Tipperary comes to mind.

grimbergen

BloodyBill wrote: »

Gillane will be dropped and deserves what he gets. If he gets the entire year or not I do not know. We as Irish people are great at starting trouble but not so great at taking the consequences. It's like our politicians who refuse to resign. Take your medicine and set a precedent. You can come back down the line but there must be punishment.
If the Limerick boys were part of the Munster academy they'd be let go. The Limerick rugby teams never let themselves down like this. But I do recognize that every team need risk takers and fighters. So it will be forgotten in time but the hurlers have to be made an example of now.

Rugby teams never let themselves down like that?? That has to be the most ludicrous comment yet

grimbergen

Some of the hyperbole on this whole thing has been ridiculous. Young fellas in New York got up to no good. But they're young fellas and they're amateurs. I'm sure they're more embarrassed than anybody.

It doesn't undo the fact they've given Limerick supporters their best days in 45 years and that they've been brilliant ambassadors for the jersey since then, on and off the field. Lets tone down the condemnation talk.

Grats

grimbergen wrote: »

Rugby teams never let themselves down like that?? That has to be the most ludicrous comment yet

Absolutely. Ask some publicans, and others!

threeball

grimbergen wrote: »

Rugby teams never let themselves down like that?? That has to be the most ludicrous comment yet

Course they do. They just have enough cop on not to post their team mates indiscretions which is actually the biggest problem here besides the Hayes thing which is pure thuggery.