Limerick GAA Discussion Part 2

Quitelife

The biggest issue for limerick player wise would be if anything happens Nicky Quaid , he pulls the strings with puck outs and general control of the full back line .

Greasy Paw

I would not overplay the 'three losses in '19' argument. First, Cork had big wins in the first round in "10, '13,'14, '17 and '19 and heavily fell on their arses each year after and often to the same opposition. Against Tipp we left off Lynch, Hegary, Hannon and Mulcahy -absurd. The fact is we have beaten Tipp in seven of our last ten Championship games and we handed them one of them and they have ever backed up the 19 AIW against us

I also believe Hannon, who was ill on the day, should never have been played against the Cats or at least taken off a lot sooner.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467801#Comment_120467801

You are completely missing the point about 2019 I think. The point being made is that Limerick were relatively vulnerable in 2019 (and indeed in 2018 when they also lost) compared with now, and while it was considered a surprise at the time because people had gotten inappropriately excited after the Munster Final, it was in the overall context of the season not such an outlier.

They lost in 2019, maybe unluckily given the late incorrect call, but it was the kind of situation they could find themselves in back then. They'd possibly have 17 points racked up by half time these days but struggled to reach that score that day. (And, frankly, Declan Hannon was Limerick's call, nobody elses. Kilkenny didn't spike his soup)

Cork's first round result in 2010 is as irrelevant as it gets. The 2019 one in the Garlic Grounds is not though as it's the 2019 championship at issue. And Kilkenny have probably beaten Limerick more often than the other way around in the last 50 years but it means nothing on any individual day.

Fortunes change, and burying your head in Wikipedia before quoting records is no guarantee of anything good or bad. And not every negative result in the past has to be contextualised. Sometimes it's okay to lose. Limerick were not great in 2018/19 and got over the line in the first one but not in the second. It's okay to admit that. Limerick do not have to win every All-Ireland in the past as well.

rjoe90

Limerick were not great in 2018? Laughable as they won the all Ireland. Limerick were also the best team in 2019 and would have comfortably beaten tipp in the final as recent history has shown us.

Having said that, it is clear Limerick have gone up a few notches since then.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468760#Comment_120468760

Recent history has shown we would beat Kilkenny too. But we didn't.

We don't know what would have happened but it was clear that season that Sheedy was back to win the AI so I wouldn't read to much into our victory that year against Tipp as much as our defeat to them.

We were a young team who got caught out by an experienced Kilkenny so its absolute bollix to say we could not have been caught out a few weeks later instead.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468760#Comment_120468760

Your last sentence contradicts the point you wanted to make earlier in the post and makes my point well.

Limerick won 2 from 4 games in Munster in 2018, including a heavy loss against Clare. The AI semi-final against Cork looked out of reach near the end. Hard to imagine any of that with the 2023 team. (Though in the interests of humility it is no harm to remember that the team finished level with Clare after 70 minutes twice in the 2022 championship)

Limerick have come on in leaps and bounds since 2018/19. However, the other side of that is accepting that in 2018/19 the team was still developing and lost three championship games and was held to a draw twice with Cork (including the extra time semi final in Croke Park).

2018/19 is a long time ago in the development of all teams including Limerick. No harm to acknowledge that things were not always as they are right now.

rjoe90

Not bollox at all, we were caught early on by Kilkenny and still should have at least drawn that game if the linesman did his job. The fact we have beaten tipp out the gate every time over the last 4 years suggests we would have beaten them in the final also.

We lost to tipp that year with a second string team and then hammered them in the Munster final, don’t see anything to suggest the final wouldn’t have gone the same way.

rjoe90

Limerick have improved since then, however that doesn’t mean that they weren’t the best team in the country in 18/19 which they were.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470166#Comment_120470166

It means that the question of the best team is far more arguable in 2018 and 2019. For example, in 2018 Galway played 9 matches and lost one by a point. Limerick didn't even reach the Munster Final. So if you remove the link between winning the All-Ireland and being the "best" team (as you have done for 2019 by declaring Limerick the "best" team that year) the situation in 2018 becomes more arguable. Limerick played a good Munster Final in 2019 but other than that the year was patchier than people would like to acknowledge. Not obvious they were clearly the "best" team that year either. Sometimes teams just come up short and are not good enough. No crime in that

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470166#Comment_120470166

Funny that absolutely nobody called them the best team in 18 until half way through the final and most people called them the best in 19 but we lost a few games.

That's just sport. 19 was a very tight year where 2 very experienced teams beat 2 not so experienced ones in the semis.

rjoe90

We beat tipp, cork, Waterford, Kilkenny and Galway in 18. For anyone to say we weren’t the best team that year is laughable.

in 19 we won the league comfortably and hammered the all Ireland winners in the Munster final. Tipp were delighted they didn’t have to play us in the final.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471282#Comment_120471282

No one said it until after we won. By your metrics we were lucky Galway beat Clare in 18.

And look at Clare last year. Munster performances don't mean much if you can't do it in the real knockouts.

Tipp beat Cork, Waterford, Clare, Limerick, Wexford (Leinster champs) and Kilkenny (by a record final loss for KK)

Greengrass53

They were robbed of that game by a stupid linesman who is still refereeing matches. Unbelievable.

rjoe90

Beat limericks second string team in the round robin & also beat kk with the harshest sending off in all Ireland final history. Limerick hammered them in the Munster final.

pajoguy

I was walking out of Thurles in 2019 after being beaten by Tipp in the round robin and 2 tipp lads in front of me were saying shure they probably got a handy All Ireland last year!!!! We beat Tipp in a tight battle, drew with cork in cork, hammered waterford, didnt show up in Ennis, were much the better tam against KK with Murphy having a MOTM performance in goals and when we went behind we dug it out. Beat cork after extra time having being 6 points down. Mush better team in final only for James Owens to try and make a game of it.

We got what we deserved in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and we will get what we deserve in 2023. A bit simplistic I know but thats life.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471868#Comment_120471868

Second string? The only starting players who played in the 2018 final who did not feature in Thurles that day were Hegarty and Hannon. Limerick probably started weaker last Sunday in Cork. They won the All Ireland in 2022 without Lynch. That's how much the team has come on.

The reference to the sending off in the 2019 All Ireland final (beyond argument the correct decision of course, what sport allows an elbow to the head?) implies that you're driven by a different agenda than discussing Limerick. Limerick didn't play in the 2019 All Ireland final so it's of no relevance is discussing what years they were the best team.

Limerick played a great Munster Final (second half anyway) in 2019 but that's just one game. Being called the best team is difficult considering they lost to both Cork and Kilkenny too. Anyway, enough has been said. Time has moved on since 2018/19.

rjoe90

Lynch and mulcahy also didn’t start that day in Thurles. I’m not saying the team hasn’t improved a lot which it clearly has, however my point is we were the best team in 2018 & also arguably in 2019 as we hammered the all Ireland champions.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471868#Comment_120471868

It wasn't harsh at all. Hogan went in with serious power and viciousness for a revenge tackle. Deserved everything was coming to the dirty fuker.

And a 14 point hammering pulling up can't just be put down to a red card.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471932#Comment_120471932

Dead right we got what we deserved. And we didn't deserve to beat Kilkenny with the performance we put in.

rjoe90

Agreed, the narrative that we weren’t the best team in 2018 seems crazy to me.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472140#Comment_120472140

I remember the majority of the season previews had Galway favourites and with Limerick as a breakthrough/dark horse/one to watch team.

I don't think we were favourites for any game we played.

Mad in hindsight but nobody would have disagreed at the time.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472173#Comment_120472173

Yeah, Galway were 13 championship games unbeaten going into that final. That seems to be forgotten at this stage. Very much the form team of 2018.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472467#Comment_120472467

They had a few stutters getting to the line though. There were hints that something was gonna go wrong.

I had an awful fear we were the same last year.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472535#Comment_120472535

There were stutters alright. They looked untouchable in the first half of the Leinster Final replay. Never quite got that back but it was the highest standard of the year.

My fear this year is that, like Galway, the number of games might catch up. If only there was a handy four game run including Offaly and Wexford like Kilkenny enjoyed back in the day.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472136#Comment_120472136

Only problem there is that if "hammering the All Ireland champions" and losing an All Ireland semi final narrowly is an accepted metric for the "best team" (as cited by you in the case of Limerick 2019) the there's a cast-iron argument for Clare as the best team of 2018. Wouldn't be a case I'd be arguing but it's consistent with your theory.

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472582#Comment_120472582

Galway were a little careless in 2018. Were three points up in the drawn Leinster final, late in the game, but didn't put it to bed. Similarly, on a scalding day in Thurles, gave an absolute lesson to Kilkenny in the first half of the replay, stuttered for a while after half time, before putting a spurt on again to win pulling up. The drawn semi' with Clare that year was one of the most underrated matches of the decade; the quality of score taking was epic at times. Again, Galway led late in the match but got careless with a lineball in the last minute of extra-time, giving Clare an opportunity to equalise. Galway won the replay through sheer luck and muscle memory (and one of Canning's best-ever sidelines). By now though tiredness and accumulated injuries was catching up. The final was probably at least one game too much that year.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473540#Comment_120473540

The Galway Clare game was unreal.

Don't think my nerves could have taken a Limerick Clare final back then.

Rosita

Reid's equaliser in the Leinster Final was arguably a disaster for both Galway and Kilkenny. It gave Kilkenny a replay which they just were not good enough to win but meant that they were out three weeks running (Limerick in the third week), while Galway also had an extra game when they needed less.

rjoe90

Over that two year period limerick were the best team in the country, correct?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473777#Comment_120473777

Which 2 years.

18/19, 19/20, 20/21

There is no such thing as a 2 year All Ireland so now you are just moving goal posts.

rjoe90

I’m not moving any goal posts and I don’t see why you are constantly trying to argue back on it. An earlier comment stated limerick weren’t great in 2018/19. I am stating how that is clearly bollox as we were the best team in the country over them two years.