Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

FACECUTTR

A few of these lads have been getting senior game time so that experience will be unreal for them.

Squidgy Black

Irish Times are reporting that Carbery has rejected the Ulster move and is looking at Munster now for a 1 year deal.

So Keatley to Ulster then if that happens I'm assuming?

irishbucsfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Irish Times are reporting that Carbery has rejected the Ulster move and is looking at Munster now for a 1 year deal.

So Keatley to Ulster then if that happens I'm assuming?

Makes the most sense to me

awec

It makes more sense than Ulster signing Carbery but seeing as Keatley has a zero percent chance of ever playing for Ireland again it seems odd to deny a NIQ in these circumstances.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

It makes more sense than Ulster signing Carbery but seeing as Keatley has a zero percent chance of ever playing for Ireland again it seems odd to deny a NIQ in these circumstances.

It kills me to say this, but I have a horrible feeling we'll see him in a Irish jersey again.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

It makes more sense than Ulster signing Carbery but seeing as Keatley has a zero percent chance of ever playing for Ireland again it seems odd to deny a NIQ in these circumstances.

Seemingly he’s on the plane to Australia, maybe that’s Joe trying to sweeten the deal. He certainly owes nothing to Munster.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

It makes more sense than Ulster signing Carbery but seeing as Keatley has a zero percent chance of ever playing for Ireland again it seems odd to deny a NIQ in these circumstances.

I think most NIQs are only going to travel here because they are starter material, or because they're journeymen desperate for contracts who are barely good enough to play for Ulster A. I don't think there'd be many who are Pro 14 material who would travel and not sit in front of McPhillips. Maybe a couple in the Currie Cup.

Also I'd say Keatley is certainly ahead of McPhillips in the Ireland pecking order. Without a doubt.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

It makes more sense than Ulster signing Carbery but seeing as Keatley has a zero percent chance of ever playing for Ireland again it seems odd to deny a NIQ in these circumstances.

That probably depends on the NIQ I suppose. We don't know that the IRFU have out and out refused any and every NIQ option. We suspect they said no to Jantjies. Which only makes sense to be honest, and was probably doing Ulster a favour anyway. I'd hope that if Ulster presented an option of a more experienced 10 who was willing to share starts so that they could develop McPhillips, then the IRFU would be supportive of that. They've shown adaptability in that regard before (Taute at Munster for example).

Buer

As horrified as some Ulster fans will be I'm sure, this is a relatively good work around for them. They get a player who isn't a world beater but is experienced and provide a good option at 10 (and other positions) allowing McPhillips to develop and gain significant game time.

It also allows them to use a NIQ spot elsewhere and strengthen the team.

From an Irish rugby perspective, I'm actually quite pleased at this solution if it comes to pass. We could conceivably have Byrne (23), Carbery (23), Carty (26) and McPhillips (21) starting at outhalf for the four provinces next season on any given European weekend.

From a Leinster perspective, I hope Carbery gets plenty of game time and develops strongly before returning home.

He can have all the experience in the world but it's irrelevant when he goes into meltdown, as happens regularly. This is a terrible outcome for Ulster.

Buer

Hadassah CoolS Backside wrote: »

He can have all the experience in the world but it's irrelevant when he goes into meltdown, as happens regularly. This is a terrible outcome for Ulster.

But the approach would be that McPhillips gets the exposure in the big games and develops. He has already played a few of them this season. Keatley would be there to share the load and provide another option if needed. He turns 32 next season and should be in a position to step back into a lesser role for a team.

It's going to be very hard to find someone that isn't going to block McPhillips but is still a high class player. Given that Keatley isn't NIQ, he's ticking more boxes than any other players I've seen suggested.



Aside from Billy Burns.

Hands Like Flippers

No doubt IK is a fine fella but he isn't great. I would rather bide our time. Sure not many thought mcphillips was up to it yet here we are. Give the younger guys a crack.

thomond2006

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

No doubt IK is a fine fella but he isn't great. I would rather bide our time. Sure not many thought mcphillips was up to it yet here we are. Give the younger guys a crack.

Bide your time to do what? Ulster need another body in the door. Keatley fits the bill.

Podge_irl

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

No doubt IK is a fine fella but he isn't great. I would rather bide our time. Sure not many thought mcphillips was up to it yet here we are. Give the younger guys a crack.

Which is exactly what the signing of Keatley would allow.

prawnsambo

Hadassah CoolS Backside wrote: »

He can have all the experience in the world but it's irrelevant when he goes into meltdown, as happens regularly. This is a terrible outcome for Ulster.

Some of that meltdown stuff is over-exaggerated. He was being blamed for stuff in the Racing game that was actually down to Murray making the wrong decision. He blows hot and cold on his kicking, but his overall stats are pretty good. In addition, he's a very useful inside centre and could be a good option there. Also, the IT article doesn't specifically say that Keatley would be going north. They mentioned all three as well as Bill Johnston.

But it's pure speculation again. There's more than a bit of adding two and two and getting five in it.

awec

Ruan Pienaar would actually be the perfect player for Ulster right now.

Can cover both 9 and 10, which is what we need.

Scythica

awec wrote: »

Ruan Pienaar would actually be the perfect player for Ulster right now.

Can cover both 9 and 10, which is what we need.

And I believe he's actually asked if he can come back in a player coach capacity.

Would be a bit of a red face for IRFU to accept but Jesus wept what a crowd pleaser it would be

Scythica

Scythica wrote: »

And I believe he's actually asked if he can come back in a player coach capacity.

Would be a bit of a red face for IRFU to accept but Jesus wept what a crowd pleaser it would be

I wonder had the IRFU line of site on how the Jackson situation was going to evolve would they have jettisoned Pienaar?

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder had the IRFU line of site on how the Jackson situation was going to evolve would they have jettisoned Pienaar?

Probably not, but in fairness it was hard to predict.

I don't see him coming back because it would be pretty embarrassing for the IRFU, but a player like that would actually be the perfect signing.

Can cover 10, but wouldn't be ahead of McPhillips, and wouldn't be ahead of Cooney at 9 either. Great bench option, and would hopefully offer a lot in a coaching capacity as well.

irishbucsfan

Scythica wrote: »

And I believe he's actually asked if he can come back in a player coach capacity.

Would be a bit of a red face for IRFU to accept but Jesus wept what a crowd pleaser it would be

He has in his hole asked if he can come back. He's under contract to another club.

awec

If Ulster had any wit they'd take Keatley and use this as leverage to get carte blanche on a proper loosehead, a position where Ireland are well stocked.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He has in his hole asked if he can come back. He's under contract to another club.

This. Also, the idea that Ulster would sign Peinaar to be second choice 9 and second choice 10 at the same time, given the payout they'd need to release him from Monty, doesn't seem realistic to me.

awec wrote: »

If Ulster had any wit they'd take Keatley and use this as leverage to get carte blanche on a proper loosehead, a position where Ireland are well stocked.

Absolutely. And I'd imagine the IRFU would be willing to play ball with them on it if Ulster are playing ball on the 10 issue. It only makes sense.

bilston

awec wrote: »

If Ulster had any wit they'd take Keatley and use this as leverage to get carte blanche on a proper loosehead, a position where Ireland are well stocked.

Yeah it makes sense..

But then who are we going to get at this time of year?

Clegg

Peter Dooley just signed a 2 year contract with Leinster. Currently he's our 4th choice loose head.

Obviously he's needed as Healy and McGrath are unavailable most of the time. But he'd be exposed to a much greater level of competition if he signed for Ulster as their starting/back up loosehead.

launish116

Clegg wrote: »

Peter Dooley just signed a 2 year contract with Leinster. Currently he's our 4th choice loose head.

Obviously he's needed as Healy and McGrath are unavailable most of the time But he'd be exposed to a much greater level of competition if he signed for Ulster as their starting/back up loosehead.

Nucifora should be trying to make players like this see the benefit of moving! 
Potentially Ulster could of went after Dooley, O'Connel, Coulson. One of them would of been a drastic improvement and supplemented the squad greatly. Our recruitment policy ****s me off some times!
We Haven't even ended this season and a crisis is already brewing for next season. Rumour has it Ludik & Marshall gonna miss a good portion of the season. Deysel potentially has a knee injury as well? are squad is looking thin already and we haven't even begun.

Buer

The bloke you should have gone for is Michael Bent. Wouldn't have cost a huge amount. Brings a massive wealth of experience. Has packed down on both sides in the HEC/ECC and been fairly comfortable. Is basically never injured.

Alas, he signed a new contract with Leinster last week and having turned 32 a few weeks ago, will probably see out his career in Dublin now.

launish116

Buer wrote: »

The bloke you should have gone for is Michael Bent. Wouldn't have cost a huge amount. Brings a massive wealth of experience. Has packed down on both sides in the HEC/ECC and been fairly comfortable. Is basically never injured.

Alas, he signed a new contract with Leinster last week and having turned 32 a few weeks ago, will probably see out his career in Dublin now.

Think it's hard to grab players winding down in their career in a club like Leinster.
Reckon O'Toole would of made a good Loosehead. But we're gifted with his abilities on tighthead, mobility, scrummaging improving etc. I do wonder with Kane, O'Toole and no sign of Herbst/Ah You moving on was there a real need for Moore. 

Am i right in thinking Ah you converted from Loosehead? he's powerful enough, just immobile, never fit and no handling.

Buer

launish116 wrote: »

Am i right in thinking Ah you converted from Loosehead? he's powerful enough, just immobile, never fit and no handling.

Played there underage for NZ.

bilston

Has Paddy McAlistair another year to go at Gloucester?

launish116

bilston wrote: »

Has Paddy McAlistair another year to go at Gloucester?

Believe so and no intension on returning an time soon. Sadly, he seems to be 2nd choice there also.
Looking at our squad and departure/injuries along the back line. Times like this wishing we never let Scholes, farrell, Arnold go.