Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

And there's the problem isn't it? It was a pathetic way to discuss women, no matter what act they were involved in.

It was a private conversation. I would be confident that the IRFU wouldn't have many players to chose from (possibly Andrew Trimble) if all private conversations were made public.

I don't think I'd have a job either tbh.

jm08

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe because they hadn't planned on having sex?
Kinda demolishes the story of predatory males waiting to take advantage.

Or just careless males who take advantage without consideration of the consequences.

DDC1990

Hurrache wrote:

And there's the problem isn't it? It was a pathetic way to discuss women, no matter what act they were involved in.

What exactly did Jackson say that was pathetic?

I've seen some pathetic **** from Olding and even Gilroy but as far as I could see Jackson's worst text went along the lines of: 'There was a lot of spitroasting going on last night'.

This was in response to a previous text of: 'There was a bit if spitroasting going on last night'.

Is that enough for him to lose his job?

Am going to try to 'jump' ahead to the next part in the conversation.

Ulster now (they did before anyway) definitely need a 10.

They can try and get an Irish 10 that will play for them for 5/6 years minimum, or they can try and get an NIQ 10 that can play for 2/3 years and shelter the development of McPhillips .

If McPhillips is going, then they need a couple of players. Has anyone heard anything concrete on his future yet?

jacothelad

Hurrache wrote: »

And there's the problem isn't it? It was a pathetic way to discuss women, no matter what act they were involved in.

Absolutely. Disgusting though mainly from McIlroy and Olding.

I hope the IRFU now insist on all contracted players making public the content of their text history and any What's App communications so we all know everything is being treated equitably and that there are no more 'misogynistic' players on the books. ......:D:D:D

That would be fun.

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

Absolutely. Disgusting though mainly from McIlroy and Olding.

I hope the IRFU now insist on all contracted players making public the content of their text history and any What's App communications so we all know everything is being treated equitably and that there are no more 'misogynistic' players on the books. ......:D:D:D

That would be fun.

We wouldn't even be able to field a 7s team.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Am going to try to 'jump' ahead to the next part in the conversation.

Ulster now (they did before anyway) definitely need a 10.

They can try and get an Irish 10 that will play for them for 5/6 years minimum, or they can try and get an NIQ 10 that can play for 2/3 years and shelter the development of McPhillips .

If McPhillips is going, then they need a couple of players. Has anyone heard anything concrete on his future yet?

I'd be shocked if they hadn't at least made a phone call to ask about Ross Byrne.

Bridge93

So ends the most sorry tale in Irish rugby that I can remember in my albeit short lifetime. Won't say anymore on anything to do with it as everything has been said. IRFU really must back Ulster completely and give them whatever funds necessary to get a decent 10 in (within reason of course, nothing outrageous)

bilston

I'm surprised they've been sacked. I thought it would have been more of a mutual arrangement. I don't think that will appease many Ulster fans.

DGRulz

How is it that Jackson says possibly the least controversial or offensive thing in that chat and gets fired and Gilroy says potentially the worst thing and he gets a 2 game ban? No way this was based just on WhatsApp messages.

awec

jm08 wrote: »

I thought I did. Maybe you better say what you meant.

That I await your calls for a current and soon-to-be former IRFU employee to receive their p45 for “poor lifestyle choices”.

Hurrache

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It was a private conversation. I would be confident that the IRFU wouldn't have many players to chose from (possibly Andrew Trimble) if all private conversations were made public.

I don't think I'd have a job either tbh.

It was, but as I said before, once it became public the fact it was initially private becomes irrelevant. History is littered with people losing jobs etc because of what they thought were private communications.

bilston

By the way does the IRFU have a direct line of communication to the White House?

They couldn't have timed this statement better if they tried.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

It was, but as I said before, once it became public the fact it was initially private becomes irrelevant. History is littered with people losing jobs etc because of what they thought were private communications.

There is absolutely nothing logical about this. It was a private conversation.

sydthebeat

Quad Cooper is lighting up the NRC at the moment

awec

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We wouldn't even be able to field a 7s team.

And that is the great hypocrisy in all of this.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

Or just careless males who take advantage without consideration of the consequences.

Everybody in that bedroom was behaving without regard for the consequences.

3 other women there took personal responsibility and managed to have an 'enjoyable' night.
Until the allegation of rape, the men believed they had had an 'enjoyable' night.

Bridge93

Could anyone amidst the carnage give me the lowdown on Matty Rea? Only seeing the game fully now and he looks a real find

Hurrache

awec wrote: »

And that is the great hypocrisy in all of this.

I somehow doubt the majority of rugby players, or men in general, discuss women in such a manner.

CommandoJack

Bridge93 wrote: »

Could anyone amidst the carnage give me the lowdown on Matty Rea? Only seeing the game fully now and he looks a real find

He's a beast. On the bench in Japan, at least.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

I'm surprised they've been sacked. I thought it would have been more of a mutual arrangement. I don't think that will appease many Ulster fans.

It could well have been a mutual agreement part of which being that the IRFU can say they sacked them.

If it wasn't they can take them to the EAT or the UK equivalent depending on jurisdiction.

I doubt we'll hear much more from them to be honest, they'll be announced as signed for a Prem or French team in a few months and a few people will get upset about it and then that will be the end of it.

Bridge93

Hurrache wrote: »

I somehow doubt the majority of rugby players, or men in general, discuss women in such a manner.

You'd be in for a nasty shock if you saw most WhatsApp groups. It's also far from just men

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

I somehow doubt the majority of rugby players, or men in general, discuss women in such a manner.

https://www.joe.ie/life-style/anatomy-of-a-night-out-read-the-whatsapp-and-text-messages-sent-by-jackson-olding-mciiroy-harrison-and-others-as-heard-by-the-jury-618032

PJ : "There was a lot of spit roast last night."
.

Buer

I'm beginning to realise that a large section of our society is incredibly sheltered If they don't think these converstaions aren't had by thousands of men and women on WhatsApp in this country every day.

I'm bewildered that people could still be so naive in this day.

Bridge93

CommandoJack wrote: »

He's a beast. On the bench in Japan, at least.

He's ferocious. The difference in his game now to the odd snippet I saw of him a few months ago his incredible

Hurrache

Bridge93 wrote: »

You'd be in for a nasty shock if you saw most WhatsApp groups. It's also far from just men

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.joe.ie/life-style/anatomy-of-a-night-out-read-the-whatsapp-and-text-messages-sent-by-jackson-olding-mciiroy-harrison-and-others-as-heard-by-the-jury-618032

PJ : "There was a lot of spit roast last night."
.

Buer wrote: »

I'm beginning to realise that a large section of our society is incredibly sheltered If they don't think these converstaions aren't had by thousands of men and women on WhatsApp in this country every day.

I'm bewildered that people could still be so naive in this day.

I didn't say it doesn't happen.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It could well have been a mutual agreement part of which being that the IRFU can say they sacked them.

If it wasn't they can take them to the EAT or the UK equivalent depending on jurisdiction.

I doubt we'll hear much more from them to be honest, they'll be announced as signed for a Prem or French team in a few months and a few people will get upset about it and then that will be the end of it.

Yes I would think so, but with zero evidence, just a feeling.

There may be 'what has happened' and 'what we both can say has happened'.

irishbucsfan

DGRulz wrote: »

How is it that Jackson says possibly the least controversial or offensive thing in that chat and gets fired and Gilroy says potentially the worst thing and he gets a 2 game ban? No way this was based just on WhatsApp messages.

Well, if all the IRFU have to do is make a reasonable conclusion that the reputation of the players has been damaged, they never have to decide that it was the WhatsApp messages or the rape charges or anything else. In that case, they just need to decide reasonably that their reputations have been sufficiently damaged.

For that they could use a letter from a major sponsor or... say... a public statement from a major sponsor. There's no way that wouldn't be considered sufficient evidence.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Nobody is overly bothered by the LOI footballer because it doesn't have much political gain as such. Therein is the big problem.

People were quite bothered by Luke Rossiter's tweet and he was smart enough to apologise the next day.

The acceptability of the attitudes displayed by PJ/SO/etc has changed very quickly even in the last few years. How quickly have attitudes toward consent changed? Even laws look like they're changing even though it's an issue that only became visible in the last 3 or 4 years.

I'd say most of us grew up in a culture toward women and sex that is almost unrecognisable to today's, but the people, media and organisations we interact with have helped us change with social norms.

Unfortunately for PJ et al, their attitudes were rooted in 10-20 years ago and not today.

If the IRFU follow through with what their statement says, we can hope that the attitude of many other rugby players will become a bit more contemporary not to mention rugby supporters (I'm sure I'm not the only person who became aware that pictures of Dara Florence being erroneously named as the complainant were being passed around Rugby WhatsApp groups slutshaming her and implying that someone who looked like that couldn't be raped).

Anyway! Again, a good few posters in their rush to defend PJ/SO and using the claim that IRFU were just sweeping the issue under the carpet, that the IRFU were paying them off and wouldn't commit to anything about the wider issue in rugby were wrong again.

I've seen a lot of posters take a more nuanced and neutral view (ibf for example) and some with more extreme views not tooooo dissimilar to mine, but the people being proven wrong time and time again are those who have been vociferously defending PJ/SO since before the trial even started. That says something quite meaningful.

Ah well, other than what club they're going to I guess this part of the topic is essentially done thank god!

jm08

awec wrote: »

That I await your calls for a current and soon-to-be former IRFU employee to receive their p45 for “poor lifestyle choices”.

I don't recall hearing about any derogatory text messages/whatsapp messages about women from either of the two players involved.

Who knows how they were reprimanded by the IRFU/Munster which if they were, it was effective as they cleaned up their act bigtime.