The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

Stheno

tigerboon wrote: »

That's all ok but when it's moved there's a requirement for minimum post count, membership length and good behaviour. When all these are met you then are at the mercy of the mods and if they give you permission.
Why should any of this matter if there's a valid point being made and that point is legally sound and complies with the forum rules.

I agree it needs to change i said so earlier.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Discodog

Stheno wrote: »

A new solution is needed but i dont know what that is tbh.

Neither do I but at least I am willing to have a go at finding an answer. You can't easily modify human behaviour. AH has been getting more serious for years. Suddenly trying to change it won't work without an alternative.

The Cafe doesn't work so people post in AH. You close the posts & people go elsewhere. You move them to somewhere that's about Politics & half will run away. Why not try something new & make it easy to discuss the news - isn't that what Boards is for - or should be ?

Who knows, if you turn Boards into a respected news discussion site, it might start growing numbers.

Discodog

tigerboon wrote: »

That's all ok but when it's moved there's a requirement for minimum post count, membership length and good behaviour. When all these are met you then are at the mercy of the mods and if they give you permission.
Why should any of this matter if there's a valid point being made and that point is legally sound and complies with the forum rules.

You simply cannot invite people to join Boards, try to get new members & then say your opinion doesn't count until you meet these criteria

_Kaiser_

I genuinely don't see why Boards management (including mods, admins and staff under that) are so obsessed with trying to pigeon hole and redirect every other thread. Complaints that certain topics are too much effort for the mods is frankly ridiculous - that's the job is it not?

On the flip side are the agenda posters who seem to follow each other around the site and always show up in certain topics doing their best to bait, troll and derail from the topic at hand until such time as the mods DO have enough and lock it entirely - frustrating those posters who were actually trying to discuss it.

Then you have the realities.. AH is the most popular forum here, the user numbers are falling, and Irish society in general has become more politicised and polarised (reflecting trends elsewhere too) in the last few years and this is shown in the topics started in AH and elsewhere on the site.

Given that those other areas (where the management would prefer such topics to reside) are hampered by ridiculous access rules, notions of what is considered an "acceptable" level of debate, and heavy-handed moderation, it really shouldn't be a surprise that these subjects end up in AH.

There's also the perhaps uncomfortable truth that the remaining userbase is aging and with that comes more interest in current and political affairs rather than the fluff topics that dominated AH in the past.

A current affairs forum might be a good idea, but I don't think it'll do much for AH because of the above factors except to perhaps make the new/active thread lists shorter?

Discodog

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I genuinely don't see why Boards management (including mods, admins and staff under that) are so obsessed with trying to pigeon hole and redirect every other thread. Complaints that certain topics are too much effort for the mods is frankly ridiculous - that's the job is it not?

On the flip side are the agenda posters who seem to follow each other around the site and always show up in certain topics doing their best to bait, troll and derail from the topic at hand until such time as the mods DO have enough and lock it entirely - frustrating those posters who were actually trying to discuss it.

Then you have the realities.. AH is the most popular forum here, the user numbers are falling, and Irish society in general has become more politicised and polarised (reflecting trends elsewhere too) in the last few years and this is shown in the topics started in AH and elsewhere on the site.

Given that those other areas (which the management would prefer such topics to residents) are hampered by ridiculous access rules, notions of what is considered an "acceptable" level of debate, and heavy-handed moderation, it really shouldn't be a surprise that these subjects end up in AH.

There's also the perhaps uncomfortable truth that the remaining userbase is aging and with that comes more interest in current and political affairs rather than the fluff topics that dominated AH in the past.

A current affairs forum might be a good idea, but I don't think it'll do much for AH because of the above factors except to perhaps make the new/active thread lists shorter?

A good example is hunting, use of animals in circuses etc. The Animals & Pets forum ban such topics so posters have started threads in AH. The results have been really good discussions because, unlike in A&P, both sides can present their arguments.

_Kaiser_

Discodog wrote: »

A good example is hunting, use of animals in circuses etc. The Animals & Pets forum ban such topics so posters have started threads in AH. The results have been really good discussions because, unlike in A&P, both sides can present their arguments.

In my view, unless it's illegal or likely to result in legal difficulties for the site, no topics should be off limits for discussion.

Rather than mods taking action against the topic, simply sanction those who can't reasonably discuss the subject at hand.. There's more than enough tools to do so - cards, bans, thread edits etc

Also, stop pandering to the lowest common denominator. If you just don't agree with or have no interest in a topic, don't open it.. Or accept that you're likely to encounter opinions that may upset/anger you if you do.

Discodog

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

In my view, unless it's illegal or likely to result in legal difficulties for the site, no topics should be off limits for discussion.

Rather than mods taking action against the topic, simply sanction those who can't reasonably discuss the subject at hand.. There's more than enough tools to do so - cards, bans, thread edits etc

Also, stop pandering to the lowest common denominator. If you just don't agree with or have no interest in a topic, don't open it.. Or accept that you're likely to encounter opinions that may upset/anger you if you do.

That's far too common sense :pac:
Maybe make acceptance of this as part of signing up in the first place

10000maniacs

Stheno wrote: »

A new solution is needed but i dont know what that is tbh.

You could start by not using the word "dick" in the Cafe rules. It is profane and childish.

Stheno

10000maniacs wrote: »

You could start by not using the word "dick" in the Cafe rules. It is profane and childish.

Thats a rule across the whole of boards tbh

super_furry

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agreed, but I would argue that those starting these posts are almost exclusively on one side of the 'debate'. There's no-one creating posts decrying 'the patriarchy' or anything like that.

What it seems to be to me, is people reacting to inflammatory red-pill, PUA, nonsense.

10000maniacs

Stheno wrote: »

Thats a rule across the whole of boards tbh

You need to change it to "Express your point with manners and courtesy". Not "Don't be a dick" surely? Its a family forum.

end of the road

10000maniacs wrote: »

You could start by not using the word "dick" in the Cafe rules. It is profane and childish.

it also makes no sense because one man's dick isn't necessarily another man's dick. it's to much open to interpretation depending on the view of an individual.

Skylinehead

10000maniacs wrote: »

You need to change it to "Express your point with manners and courtesy". Not "Don't be a dick" surely? Its a family forum.

Is this what we're reduced to arguing? Little to be at.

Stheno

10000maniacs wrote: »

You need to change it to "Express your point with manners and courtesy". Not "Don't be a dick" surely? Its a family forum.

You could start a thread in feedback and ask for it to be changed sitewide?

I wouldnt say boards is a family forum you have to be 13 to sign up

dudara

10000maniacs wrote: »

You need to change it to "Express your point with manners and courtesy". Not "Don't be a dick" surely? Its a family forum.

To be fair “don’t be a d*ck” has been a core tenet of Boards for many years, and I don’t see a need to change it or sanitise the message. It’s a pretty simple way of summing up how to post

In terms of Boards being a family site, it’s actually not. Children under 13 are not permitted, and those between 13 & 18 are requested to have parental permission. In reality I’m well aware we have sub-18 year old posters, but I honestly don’t think “don’t be a d*ck” is a problem for them. If it is, they can tell Boards.

10000maniacs

dudara wrote: »

To be fair “don’t be a d*ck” has been a core tenet of Boards for many years, and I don’t see a need to change it or sanitise the message. It’s a pretty simple way of summing up how to post

In terms of Boards being a family site, it’s actually not. Children under 13 are not permitted, and those between 13 & 18 are requested to have parental permission. In reality I’m well aware we have sub-18 year old posters, but I honestly don’t think “don’t be a d*ck” is a problem for them. If it is, they can tell Boards.

"Don't be a dick" is a core tenet? LOL
I am literally folding up laughing here.

Discodog

10000maniacs wrote: »

"Don't be a dick" is a core tenet. LOL
I am literally folding up laughing here.

Friendly advice mate you are beginning to sound like a tenet

Jack Kanoff

dudara wrote: »

To be fair “don’t be a d*ck” has been a core tenet of Boards for many years, and I don’t see a need to change it or sanitise the message. It’s a pretty simple way of summing up how to post

In terms of Boards being a family site, it’s actually not. Children under 13 are not permitted, and those between 13 & 18 are requested to have parental permission. In reality I’m well aware we have sub-18 year old posters, but I honestly don’t think “don’t be a d*ck” is a problem for them. If it is, they can tell Boards.

When you tell someone to not be a dick..it's insulting.. argumentative...and will quite often have the opposite effect.... normally I find the individual using the term should perhaps take their own advice.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

dudara wrote: »

To be fair “don’t be a d*ck” has been a core tenet of Boards for many years, and I don’t see a need to change it or sanitise the message. It’s a pretty simple way of summing up how to post

In terms of Boards being a family site, it’s actually not. Children under 13 are not permitted, and those between 13 & 18 are requested to have parental permission. In reality I’m well aware we have sub-18 year old posters, but I honestly don’t think “don’t be a d*ck” is a problem for them. If it is, they can tell Boards.

I abhor the phrase and cringe when I see. It's confrontational and immature, as well as disrespectful.

dudara

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

When you tell someone to not be a dick..it's insulting.. argumentative...and will quite often have the opposite effect.... normally I find the individual using the term should perhaps take their own advice.

It’s not a term I’d hugely use myself, it’s not my personal style, but I do think it’s got a certain aptness at times. Some people are just... well d*cks.

For me, this point goes back to something I said earlier, the apparent increasing sanitation of Boards. Do posters really want that?

Jack Kanoff

dudara wrote: »

It’s not a term I’d hugely use myself, it’s not my personal style, but I do think it’s got a certain aptness at times. Some people are just... well d*cks.

For me, this point goes back to something I said earlier, the apparent increasing sanitation of Boards. Do posters really want that?

It's not sanitisation...it's totally counter productive...in this day and age it's an insult... nothing more... maybe it has had the desired effect in threads....I've not witnessed them personally....and tbh...it's not needed...
replace don't be a dick...with next time a card in bold... something that won't antagonise someone who's passions are inflamed already to make a mistake and rise to the insult of being called a dick

muffler

Maybe Im getting too old for all this shit but with some current proposals/suggestions combined with previous changes and possibly more to come Im getting a feeling that there is an attempted element of rejigging everything we have come to love and appreciate. Leaving legal issues etc aside (which needed changing) what was wrong or bad about Boards or the way it was run and modded going back 5, 10 or 15 years ago? Very little would be be my opinion. To pull a quote from Dermot Bannon - it worked!

Back in the day we stood up to the few trolls and clowns and give as good as we got and if they didnt tow the line or tone it down then we got rid of them where necessary and in doing so made the place more enjoyable for the many, many decent posters out there. Regular low level trolls had the feedback forum as their little play area and how did that end up? They got their way and the forum is all but closed. The genuine posters who not only would have a query, complaint, feedback etc but would need others to help put their case forward on occasions are denied this now because of the actions of a few.

Sure, there are some basic areas and situations where modding could and should be more streamlined but there is no one size fits all and I personally dont see any rule book covering every situation that could arise in every forum or come remotely close to it. I believe we are merely pandering to the whims of a few in attempting to make the changes they are looking for. Certainly, there would be the odd thing that needs brushed up on but are we really seeing the tail wagging the dog here?

Instead of the pandering I think that we should (in a lot of situations) take a more of a "our house, our rules" stand and in the nicest possible way just tell these whingers that if they're not happy they can feck off and find somewhere else to vent. Yes, thats a crude way to put it but the underlying message would be along the lines of "here's a privately owned discussion site (for sensible and respectful discussions) and if you play nice you are more than welcome to stay. Play nasty...well dont let the door hit you on the arse on the way out"

devnull

Zoey Famous Aftershave wrote: »

I abhor the phrase and cringe when I see. It's confrontational and immature, as well as disrespectful.

It's been there as long as I can remember using Boards and I don't see a huge problem with it myself, neither as a poster before I came a moderator, or a moderator as I am now.

It's pretty obvious what it means and I'm fairly sure that everyone knows what it means and they are not complying with the rules and that is the idea as far as I'm concerned.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

devnull wrote: »

It's been there as long as I can remember using Boards and I don't see a huge problem with it myself, neither as a poster before I came a moderator, or a moderator as I am now.

It's pretty obvious what it means and I'm fairly sure that everyone knows what it means and they are not complying with the rules and that is the idea as far as I'm concerned.

And the aim can be achieved without resorting to it, as well.

But, I'm not getting into an argument over it. It was a feedback on the phrase, that's all.


I wonder is feedback wanted at all at times.

devnull

Zoey Famous Aftershave wrote: »

I wonder is feedback wanted at all at times.

I have no problem with feedback whatsoever personally, although life experience has shown me that whilst some feedback is genuine and well meaning, others have an axe to grind for various reasons and are bitter or have a chip on their shoulder.

If I have feedback from a member who has 8 yellow, 4 reds and 2 bans and a poster who has not racked up any of these, I know which one I would place the most value in and it wouldn't be the one who has racked up the sanctions.

KERSPLAT!

Zoey Famous Aftershave wrote: »

And the aim can be achieved without resorting to it, as well.

But, I'm not getting into an argument over it. It was a feedback on the phrase, that's all.


I wonder is feedback wanted at all at times.

In fairness, if you provide feedback you can expect feedback or a rebuttal on that which is all that was done above.

I do agree with your point that at times it seems like feedback is unwanted but it's hardly the case in the above??

Discodog

Zoey Famous Aftershave wrote: »

And the aim can be achieved without resorting to it, as well.

But, I'm not getting into an argument over it. It was a feedback on the phrase, that's all.


I wonder is feedback wanted at all at times.

The whole point is that Boards said they wanted feedback. Contrary to some opinion a lot of the feedback has been from respected, long serving Boards members. Some of them held up little chance of any real change & maybe they were right.

Boards sound like Phillip & Liz being told that the monarchy need to open up the Palace & embrace social media. The thought of having to discuss things with dicks like us.

What has emerged is that Boards are a divided organisation. Some still see it as their private members club where people can either follow the rules or get lost. Others are realising that, heaven forbid, Boards needs customers - those adverts need clicks.

But whether we are dicks or not we are the enemy because we dare to suggest change. As dicks we are just doing this to cause trouble, it couldn't possibly be because we have contributed years to the site & want it to survive.

Boards will end up like the two old men in the Muppets reminiscing over the good old days when you just reached for the "Ban Hammer"

Franz Von Peppercorn

10000maniacs wrote: »

You need to change it to "Express your point with manners and courtesy". Not "Don't be a dick" surely? Its a family forum.

Is it a family site? News to me. A family site would indicate that the entire family peruses together.

Personally I’d prefer if there were an age limit, albeit hard to enforce. The problem with the don’t be a dick rule is it’s a pretty arbitrary rule, and can be applied inconsistently and with bias. And we are all biased.

Discodog

muffler wrote: »

Maybe Im getting too old for all this shit but with some current proposals/suggestions combined with previous changes and possibly more to come Im getting a feeling that there is an attempted element of rejigging everything we have come to love and appreciate. Leaving legal issues etc aside (which needed changing) what was wrong or bad about Boards or the way it was run and modded going back 5, 10 or 15 years ago? Very little would be be my opinion. To pull a quote from Dermot Bannon - it worked!

Back in the day we stood up to the few trolls and clowns and give as good as we got and if they didnt tow the line or tone it down then we got rid of them where necessary and in doing so made the place more enjoyable for the many, many decent posters out there. Regular low level trolls had the feedback forum as their little play area and how did that end up? They got their way and the forum is all but closed. The genuine posters who not only would have a query, complaint, feedback etc but would need others to help put their case forward on occasions are denied this now because of the actions of a few.

Sure, there are some basic areas and situations where modding could and should be more streamlined but there is no one size fits all and I personally dont see any rule book covering every situation that could arise in every forum or come remotely close to it. I believe we are merely pandering to the whims of a few in attempting to make the changes they are looking for. Certainly, there would be the odd thing that needs brushed up on but are we really seeing the tail wagging the dog here?

Instead of the pandering I think that we should (in a lot of situations) take a more of a "our house, our rules" stand and in the nicest possible way just tell these whingers that if they're not happy they can feck off and find somewhere else to vent. Yes, thats a crude way to put it but the underlying message would be along the lines of "here's a privately owned discussion site (for sensible and respectful discussions) and if you play nice you are more than welcome to stay. Play nasty...well dont let the door hit you on the arse on the way out"

Beasty. You thanked this post & you are the one who has been leading & guiding most of the feedback over the past three months. Do you believe that Boards are pandering to the whims of the few ? Do you believe that it's the tail wagging the dog ?