Should there be a call out charge for mountain rescue?

Wanderer78

ThisRegard wrote: »

Let's go for something like the monstrosity that is the boardwalk on Cuilcagh Mountain. Keep everyone safe.

jaysis, that looks dreadful

the_pen_turner

ThisRegard wrote: »

Let's go for something like the monstrosity that is the boardwalk on Cuilcagh Mountain. Keep everyone safe.

in a few years that will be a death trap.
I believe some kind of gravel path would help a lot of less experienced or even lazy walkers (like myself)to go up the mountain. surely that's a good thing.
if you want to rough it up the mountain then go up a different side .
how many accidents that happen in these situations are with inexperienced people. if you an make it safer for them then there should be less accidents and less likelihood that help has to be called in.
also having a trail up the mountain will keep the majority of people near it and if there is an accident or someone going missing then they will be found and helped faster.

Orion

Wanderer78 wrote: »

jaysis, that looks dreadful

It really does. I hate those boardwalks and avoid them. They do serve a purpose tho. E.g. the one in Glendalough. Means that families can go for a walk in a beautiful area without navigation skills and keeps the hills open to all. Personally I'll stick to cross country though with a map and compass though.

ThisRegard

It's a real Disneyland type of thing in terms of hillwalking.

However some boardwalks do serve a purpose of environmental protection and preservation.

Alun

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's a real Disneyland type of thing in terms of hillwalking.

However some boardwalks do serve a purpose of environmental protection and preservation.

There was an article in the latest Mountain Log about the Cuilcagh boardwalk, and indeed, it's primary purpose was in fact conservation, not safety.

Any measure like that always has unwanted consequences along with the intended ones, and it's often a difficult choice. Using that as an excuse to not do anything at all is a lazy way out though.

hmmm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Let's go for something like the monstrosity that is the boardwalk on Cuilcagh Mountain. Keep everyone safe.

The thing about Cuilcagh is that it has been a huge success for those who built it - in fact it's been too much of a success, they are having trouble managing the numbers. It shows just how much of a latent demand there is for safe ways to get into the mountains.

The Cuilcagh eyesore could have been prevented if there was engagement with the council and support for their plans. The demand is there, we can either fight it and be on the losing side or engage and be part of a compromise.

ThisRegard

Indeed. I believe the public carpark was closed for some time which basically meant public access by car was gone.

I do wonder how much of the attraction was due to curiosity of how it looked over people thinking great, we now have a path and handrail to the top of a mountain.

AndrewJRenko

Orion wrote: »

It really does. I hate those boardwalks and avoid them. They do serve a purpose tho. E.g. the one in Glendalough. Means that families can go for a walk in a beautiful area without navigation skills and keeps the hills open to all. Personally I'll stick to cross country though with a map and compass though.

The Glendalough boardwalk is much more than just navigation. It opens up the environment for parents pushing buggies, wheelchair users, people using rollators and more.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The Glendalough boardwalk is much more than just navigation. It opens up the environment for parents pushing buggies, wheelchair users, people using rollators and more.

The Spinc boardwalk (Glendalough) is absolutely not to be considered wheelchair accessible and you can't safely push a buggy along it either.

Alun

There's another, low-level, boardwalk that runs from the upper car park along the northern side of the lower lake to join the green road just before the monastic village which could be considered as wheelchair accessible. Maybe that's the one he meant?

Alun

Alun wrote: »

There's another, low-level, boardwalk that runs from the upper car park along the northern side of the lower lake to join the green road just before the monastic village which could be considered as wheelchair accessible. Maybe that's the one he meant?

You're quite right and my apologies to Andrew if that's the case.

Harika

Those wooden paths are a bit of an exception, on Carrauntoohil something like you find in the alps might already be helpful.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/wandern-der-markierung-63132598.jpg

Went walking with a hiking group and got lost up there, an experience hiking group that got lost on an introduction walk for beginners. Snow storm hit and the inexperienced people got tired what lead to a broken ankle and the mountain rescue had to come up and carry the poor guy over a river as the helicopter couldn't do anything there.
Still those markings won't help in poor visibility but at least you have something to follow and orientate. Oh yes there were maps.

hmmm

Harika wrote: »

Those wooden paths are a bit of an exception, on Carrauntoohil something like you find in the alps might already be helpful.

The occasional splash of red & white paint, or some substantial cairns, aren't going to change the character of the mountain massively. I've seen zigzag paths going up slopes in the Alps which match the steepness of O'Sheas, and the current zigzag path on the other side should easily accommodate a more robust path construction.

BarryD2

Alun wrote: »

There was an article in the latest Mountain Log about the Cuilcagh boardwalk, and indeed, it's primary purpose was in fact conservation, not safety.

Read that article, but the situation was a bit more complex as I understood it. The rationale for the Cuilcagh boardwalk seemed to start with a tourism initiative and the Ulster Way etc. directing a route to the top. It was relatively little used, but people who did use it were causing some issues with damage to the blanket bog - hence the conservation measure of the boardwalk, which in turn vastly increased the recreational pressure. A case maybe of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing.

hmmm wrote: »

The occasional splash of red & white paint, or some substantial cairns, aren't going to change the character of the mountain massively. I've seen zigzag paths going up slopes in the Alps which match the steepness of O'Sheas, and the current zigzag path on the other side should easily accommodate a more robust path construction.

They certainly do have high level signposted routes in the Alps and Pyrenees etc., but these signposted routes are still relatively low level compared to the mountains there. The scale of the mountains is different, 4000m there, 1000m here. The alpine routes link huts and go over passes etc. You don't find waymarked signposted trails to the tops of the high mountains there. So in the Irish context, the general line of thought as I understand it is that waymarked routes are not appropriate above about 300 metres. That keeps them appropriately scaled to the heights of our hills.

Incidentally, did you seen the splashes of red & white paint littered across Cooley - vandalism. Torc Mountain outside Killarney has a built & signposted track to the top. This type of development is there to satisfy the needs of the area and to act as a honey pot for those who want simple trails to the top of hills, whilst leaving the higher hills without such infrastructure.

Orion

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The Glendalough boardwalk is much more than just navigation. It opens up the environment for parents pushing buggies, wheelchair users, people using rollators and more.

I said that it opens it up to families. Didn't say it was just for navigation.

hmmm

BarryD2 wrote: »

They certainly do have high level signposted routes in the Alps and Pyrenees etc., but these signposted routes are still relatively low level compared to the mountains there.

I've been on blue Alpinwegs in Switzerland crossing glaciers - they can go very high. But I agree, the paths stop usually at the point where you need technical equipment - we have few places in Ireland where a path would need to end short of the summit. The Swiss are a good example of a well-run country where they have no problem doing what they can to make the mountains accessible by all, and as a consequence the entire nation seems to love their mountains.

Incidentally, did you seen the splashes of red & white paint littered across Cooley - vandalism.

Yes vandalism - but inevitable vandalism as we will forever be fighting a losing battle if we are trying to keep people away from the relatively small Irish mountains. The Cooleys are a good example of an area with several low level marked trails, but where you'll still find inexperienced hikers stumbling around blindly on top with a few dangerous areas and difficult navigation in poor visibility.

BarryD2

The best solution is for people to take responsibility for themselves on the higher parts of our hills. For them to invest a little in learning basic navigation and routefinding skills and how to mind themselves in changing weather. There's too much emphasis these days on 'holding people's hands', imho anyway

my3cents

BarryD2 wrote: »

The best solution is for people to take responsibility for themselves on the higher parts of our hills. For them to invest a little in learning basic navigation and routefinding skills and how to mind themselves in changing weather. There's too much emphasis these days on 'holding people's hands', imho anyway

Map reading and use of a compass should be taught at schools - not that many people ever use a real map or compass nowadays.