Should Ireland recognize Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel?

realitykeeper

Jerusalem is the historic Capital of Israel and should Ireland therefore recognize this fact and it`s present day reality just like the USA. After all, Israel`s parliament, the Knesset and other main government offices are in the city. Lest we forget, God gave Israel to the Jews so should this not be acknowledged by respecting the right of the Israeli people to choose their own capital?

How would the Dubs like it if every country in the world were to recognize Cork`s rightful status as the real Capital of Ireland?

The Palestinian desire for a Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem could perhaps be entertained by the State of Israel if the international community were to recognize Jerusalem as Israel`s capital.

My own view is that the world in general and Ireland in particular should recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel but the Palestinians really ought to refrain from the appalling behavior they displayed following President Trump`s decision on the matter. These things need to be talked out and there is no excuse for burning flags and rioting because of it.

seiphil

No.

tayto lover

Definitely not.

TheQuietFella

We should recognise it as the capital of Palestine!

Bubbaclaus

No

Oops69

TheQuietFella wrote: »

We should recognise it as the capital of Palestine!

Palestine doesnt exist as a state so that would be a bit daft wouldn't it .

TheQuietFella

Oops69 wrote: »

Palestine doesnt exist as a state so that would be a bit daft wouldn't it .

Only in some people's mind it doesn't!
Thousands of Palestinians and Arabs think otherwise!

W0LFMAN

Cork is the Capital right?

Avatar MIA

realitykeeper wrote: »

My own view is that the world in general and Ireland in particular should recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel but the Palestinians really ought to refrain from the appalling behavior they displayed following President Trump`s decision on the matter. These things need to be talked out and there is no excuse for burning flags and rioting because of it.

And the bait is set...

Owryan

If we do will it bring about the now overdue economic collapse?

Varik

Reality recognised Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel, and Israel doesn't give a **** what the UN thinks as they're used to it.

First Israeli ambassador Abba Eban wrote:

If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions

Arthur Daley

Ireland would disgrace itself with such a move. But the Irish political class has whored itself at the feet of the zionists over the last decade or two. At the expense of the Irish worker. So nothing would surprise me.

Manic Moran

[mod]This thread surely belongs in “politics”[/mod]

Moving...

One More Toy

No. Israel is not a state.

shaunr68

realitykeeper wrote: »

Jerusalem is the historic Capital of Israel and should Ireland therefore recognize this fact

Ireland is a historic imperial possession of Great Britain, perhaps we should recognise that reality too?

I think they should give Jerusalem back to the Babylonians.

Brego888

Can anyone provide a link to an article or explainer about why trumps declaration was so controversial. My knowledge of Israel/Palestine is limited and I'd like to get a grasp on the significance of Jerusalem.

phater phagan

I respect Israel's right to exist, but Trump's actions are only done to create dangerous situations. I don't condone Jew bashing, or Muslim bashing.

AnGaelach

Israel doesn't exactly do itself any favours in trying to win support by calling us the most anti-Semitic country in Europe or using Irish passports for its spies to get around the world.

No, the Israelis can get t'fúck.

AnGaelach

Brego888 wrote: »

Can anyone provide a link to an article or explainer about why trumps declaration was so controversial. My knowledge of Israel/Palestine is limited and I'd like to get a grasp on the significance of Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is an important religious city to Christians, Jews and Muslims. Jerusalem was originally divided between Israelis and Palestinians, but after the various Arab-Israeli wars the Israelis took the entire city. Israel's de facto capital has been long recognised internationally as Tel Aviv, by recognising it as Jerusalem they're effectively just cementing Israeli claims to the city. It makes a peace settlement between Palestine and Israel that little bit less realistic.

phater phagan

Brego888 wrote: »

Can anyone provide a link to an article or explainer about why trumps declaration was so controversial. My knowledge of Israel/Palestine is limited and I'd like to get a grasp on the significance of Jerusalem.

This is just off the top of my head, so I'm not a hundred percent certain. But when the state of Israel was created in the 1920's, Jerusalem was considered to be designated as a place to be off limits politically to any of the constituents in the area. Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Christians et al. A sort of no-man's-land to maintain peace in the region. I think that is the crux of it.

Snake Plisken

Absolutely we should! Will it happen I’d say It won’t!

Snake Plisken

AnGaelach wrote: »

Israel doesn't exactly do itself any favours in trying to win support by calling us the most anti-Semitic country in Europe or using Irish passports for its spies to get around the world.

No, the Israelis can get t'fúck.

Yeah they are probably right about the amount of anti-Semitic crap that goes on here. Sure they just have to look at all the hate towards it on boards as a good example.

armaghlad

F**k Israel. I’m reluctant to recognise them as human beings, nevermind Jerusalem as their capital.

Snake Plisken

armaghlad wrote: »

F**k Israel. I’m reluctant to recognise them as human beings, nevermind Jerusalem as their capital.

I rest my case!

phater phagan

Hatred is a self-destructive thing. It's better to give it up for body and soul.

One More Toy

Re:anti-semiticism

I hate the state of Israel and the atrocities committed. I do not have Jews or the Israeli people.

Snickers Man

realitykeeper wrote: »

Jerusalem is the historic Capital of Israel

Historic? Israel has only been in existence since 1948.

realitykeeper wrote: »

My own view is that the world in general and Ireland in particular should recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel but the Palestinians really ought to refrain from the appalling behavior they displayed following President Trump`s decision on the matter. These things need to be talked out and there is no excuse for burning flags and rioting because of it.

Yes. Just what the region needs. More humiliation of the Palestinian people.

Larbre34

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Yeah they are probably right about the amount of anti-Semitic crap that goes on here. Sure they just have to look at all the hate towards it on boards as a good example.

Ah the auld anti-semitism. The very thing the jewish right wing politicians and media are on a hair trigger to accuse all and sundry of, when they might dare to call out blatant human rights abuses and extreme policy emanating from officialdom in Israel.

I'll put it this way, if you wrote down the policies and behaviours of Israel since the late 90's, in hypothetical terms by leaving out all the names, places and participants, a cold analysis in comparison with history would show up some very uncomfortable parallels with fascism and ultra nationalism. How ironic. Netanyahu is really no different to Putin or Erdogan or Órban.

I recognise Israel's right to exist because we are where we are, but the clumsy actions of the victorious powers post WWII by bulldozing one people out of the way to try and compensate for the holocaust and set up a turn-key homeland for another, was the worst bit of diplomatic policy the world has seen in about 2 centuries, apart from perhaps appeasement.

No, Ireland is right to remain with the majority of nations in not recognising Israeli pre-eminence over Jerusalem, because the enlightened view is that the 2-state solution is the only one with a lasting chance.

phater phagan

It is indeed an intractable situation. It might possibly have worked better if Bavaria had been designated as the Jewish Homeland ( as some of the players had suggested at the time).

dok_golf

AnGaelach wrote: »

Jerusalem is an important religious city to Christians, Jews and Muslims. Jerusalem was originally divided between Israelis and Palestinians, but after the various Arab-Israeli wars the Israelis took the entire city. Israel's de facto capital has been long recognised internationally as Tel Aviv, by recognising it as Jerusalem they're effectively just cementing Israeli claims to the city. It makes a peace settlement between Palestine and Israel that little bit less realistic.

That 2 state peace solution will never happen. It is quite deliberate that Israel have allowed some autonomy in two distinctly SEPARATE areas. The Palestinians are easier to control this way. No way will they allow a joined up country. ( Sorry for going off topic)

salmocab

realitykeeper wrote: »

Lest we forget, God gave Israel to the Jews
.

No he didn't and even if he had it wasn't his to give

phater phagan

I do think that Israel should stop it's occupation and settlement construction program.

phater phagan

Sorry about that apostrophe, by the way ( if any pedants are watching). time for bed. Good night.

Arthur Daley

phater phagan wrote: »

It is indeed an intractable situation. It might possibly have worked better if Bavaria had been designated as the Jewish Homeland ( as some of the players had suggested at the time).

Indeed. The zionists could also have gone down to Argentina at the time, and I think the Seycelles were also an option. But Jerusulam hits such a nerve with Christians and Arabs.

It is also shocking to find many leading founders of Zionism were atheists. So how much does all of this aggression, aggrevation and terrorism have anything to do with Judaism or any religion. That is used almost like a flag of convenience by the perpetrators.

George Galloway on talk radio had an excellent hour on this a few weeks back. It is up on youtube. He maintains the Christian evangelical lobby were heavily behind this stunt by Trump, not just AIPAC.

The pope condemed the move and it has little or nothing to do with the Irish people themselves. Many Irish people can see this through the eyes of the Palestinians.

Odhinn

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Absolutely we should!

Why, might I ask?

recedite

"The Two State Solution" is a mantra that is constantly trotted out by UN bureaucrats.
Can anyone who thinks it this is a runner, spell out how it would work?

Currently there are several separate and disconnected Palestinian arab territories. Gaza, West Bank, east bank (kingdom of Jordan) east Jerusalem.

Gaza is adjacent to Egypt. West bank is adjacent to "Jordan" on the other side of the river.
Would you make one country out of all these? Maybe leave Jordan out of it and connect the others up with tunnels?

How would Jerusalem work as city divided up between two different states? Maybe like Berlin after WW2? That kind of thing just does not seem realistic in the long term.

Bubbaclaus

recedite wrote: »

"The Two State Solution"
Gaza is adjacent to Egypt. West bank is adjacent to "Jordan" on the other side of the river.
Would you make one country out of all these? Maybe leave Jordan out of it and connect the others up with tunnels?

Plenty of countries are like this already. The USA have Alaska. Russia has territory by the Baltic Sea.

johnnyskeleton

armaghlad wrote: »

F**k Israel. I’m reluctant to recognise them as human beings, nevermind Jerusalem as their capital.

Mod note:

This forum is for serious political discussion. More importantly, if you want to suggest that certain groups of humans are not, in fact, humans, this is hate speech and against boards.ie terms of use.

Inquitus

No we should not, the rest of the world should never stop working towards a 2 state solution to the Palestinian question.

Terrlock

I think the whole thing is very interesting.

It is interesting to see so many countries in the world outraged with this action.

So many people against it.

I wonder if it was any other nation any other country would we feel the same way?

Do people reject Israel because the reject the idea that they have been chosen by God?

Is it more a rejection of the idea that there is a God so if there is no God then Israel does not have this God given right to claim Jerusalem for it's capital?

The book of revelation from the Bible talks about a time when all the countries of the world would come against Israel.

Do you think that Trump is purposely setting up this kind of scenario.

Is religious beliefs more behind this rather then political ideas.

BuilderPlumber

Not at the moment. Israel is ruled by a corrupt leader and a flawed system. Jerusalem could some day be the capital of an inclusive Israel/Palestine state. Can't see any major changes soon (any moderate Israeli leader was somehow either shot or had a sudden stroke when they were about to make a deal). So leave things as they are and tell America's new rookie government to stop making silly mistakes all the time.

BuilderPlumber

I feel that the world needs proper leadership to settle the Israel/Palestine issue. Each side needs moderate and intelligent leadership. Conflicts like Northern Ireland and South Africa were largely resolved thanks to good leadership. Sadly, that is lacking today wrt Israel/Palestine:

Israel has a corrupt hardliner Netanyahu at the head. America is lead by a hardline regime with a faceless leader hiding behind a puppet. They are NOT interested in a two state solution or a South Africa-style Israel/Palestine single state solution. In turn, this can only mean hardline 'Islamists' will cash in on the Palestine cause and then a vicious circle exists.

In general, wars and conflicts keep going because the powers that be want them to. Netanyahu and the hidden president of America clearly are friends and then Netanyahu's abysmal treatment of his people is tolerated. If America got tough on Netanyahu and told him to make peace, that would be the start. The whole world should demand a fair and just country or countries to settle this nearly 70 year old conflict.

armaghlad

armaghlad wrote: »

F**k Israel. I’m reluctant to recognise them as human beings, nevermind Jerusalem as their capital.

There seems to be a big hatred for Israel in Ireland and its always typically from Sinn Feinn supporters.

I have always liked Israel and I think that Jerusalem should be reconized as their capital

Doltanian

Yes we should recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Palestine is a terror state and we should not recognise it. It was a great political decision by President Trump.

The state of Israel, is the only country in the middle east which gives rights to Women, Christians, Gay people and the only democracy in the region.

We should be supporting and assisting Israel as much as possible, the Israeli Jewish people have a much older and deserving claim to the region than the Arabic Muslim Palestinians who are driven by anti-Semitism and also persecutes Christians. There is a huge similarity between the Israelis and the Irish, Northern Ireland is occupied by the British and Israel has to share the West Bank and Gaza with the Palestinians.

Tayschren

Doltanian wrote: »

Yes we should recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Palestine is a terror state and we should not recognise it. It was a great political decision by President Trump.

The state of Israel, is the only country in the middle east which gives rights to Women, Christians, Gay people and the only democracy in the region.

We should be supporting and assisting Israel as much as possible, the Israeli Jewish people have a much older and deserving claim to the region than the Arabic Muslim Palestinians who are driven by anti-Semitism and also persecutes Christians. There is a huge similarity between the Israelis and the Irish, Northern Ireland is occupied by the British and Israel has to share the West Bank and Gaza with the Palestinians.

Being ignorant is not an excuse. As another poster pointed out this is a political forum and lies, propaganda and hate speeches are against the rules...

TonyM.

[QU

We should be supporting and assisting Israel as much as possible, the Israeli Jewish people have a much older and deserving claim to the region than the Arabic Muslim Palestinians who are driven by anti-Semitism and also persecutes Christians. There is a huge similarity between the Israelis and the Irish, Northern Ireland is occupied by the British and Israel has to share the West Bank and Gaza with the Palestinians.[/QUOTE]

Do you also support the view American Jews should give their property back to
the Native American tribes who have a more deserving claim to it.

Doltanian

Tayschren wrote: »

Being ignorant is not an excuse. As another poster pointed out this is a political forum and lies, propaganda and hate speeches are against the rules...

Its called having an opinion, you can call it lies, propaganda or whatever you like but that reflects badly on you and not me.

VonZan

No we should not recognise Jerusalem as the capital just to appease the US or Israel. The right thing to do at this point would be to support a two state solution with Jerusalem as a shared capital with special status. Any other solution will just lead to long term problems.

Manic Moran

So did the UN slap Guatemala for saying they would move their embassy to Jerusalem, or is that a US only thing?

ancapailldorcha

Posts deleted. This is a forum for serious discussion, not one liners and link dumps.

Odhinn

Doltanian wrote: »

Yes we should recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Palestine is a terror state and we should not recognise it. It was a great political decision by President Trump.

There is no "Palestine state" as such. The Palestinian authority is run by Fatah, which has been - to no visible result - not involved in violence for many years.

Doltanian wrote: »

The state of Israel, is the only country in the middle east which gives rights to Women, Christians, Gay people and the only democracy in the region.

....which, given the occupation, is like saying Apartheid South Africa was democratic, as it allowed white people to vote.

Doltanian wrote: »

We should be supporting and assisting Israel as much as possible, the Israeli Jewish people have a much older and deserving claim to the region than the Arabic Muslim Palestinians who are driven by anti-Semitism and also persecutes Christians.

Palestinians and jews share a common genetic heritage, so thats rather nonsensical.

You do realise that Palestinian christians are treated much as Palestinian muslims by the Israelis?

Manic Moran wrote:

So did the UN slap Guatemala for saying they would move their embassy to Jerusalem, or is that a US only thing?

Doubtless private remarks have been made, but given US influence over Guatemala and some other states a public condemnation at this point would be akin to scolding the tail for wagging rather than the dog.