Age gap

Yellow pack crisps

So a 19 year old can vote, live independently, drink alcohol, can have sex with whom they choose to, can choose to live in Outer Mongolia if they so wish, can basically choose anything a 65 yr old person can! But they cannot choose who they want to date! Bizarre!

Op show this girl always respect and good manners and her mother will be fine eventually!

Ursus Horribilis

OP you've been put in an awkward position here. I think the wisest course of action is to let this young lady decide what to do. I can understand where her mother's coming from and I think I'd be similarly concerned if I was in her shoes. I'm also inclined to think that in time the age gap between ye will become an issue and this will come to a natural end. Having said that, I'm long enough around to know that relationships with age gaps can work out. Who are any of us to judge? 19 is young but she is legally an adult and free to make her own choices.

Emme

Not all 19 year olds have the same level of maturity. Somebody mentioned meeting a 19 year old with a child while he was much older with a child of his own. Having a child would have made the 19 year old girl grow up fast and she would probably have more in common with an older man with a child than with a childless man nearer her own age.

The 19 year old in question here is living with her parents and as far as I know has no children. She and the OP share an interest but she may not be as mature as a 19 year old with a child. The mother was wrong to interfere even though her concern is understandable. She should have let the relationship take its course because the older man is now forbidden and therefore more attractive.

The OP should ask himself what attracted him to this girl. Was it their shared interests or her youth? Would he be equally interested in a woman his own age if they had the same shared interests as he does with the younger woman?

Some older men like to date younger women and some younger women like to date older men. Sometimes it lasts, sometimes it doesn't. All the OP can do is go with the flow.

splinter65

Earlier in this thread I was summarily dismissed for suggesting that a 19 year girl is not the same person now as they once were.
I said that 19 year olds are a lot more cosseted then they were.
I can say this confidently because I have a 20 year old and was a 20 year old girl myself over 30 years ago.
30 years ago there’s a good chance that this girl would be living and working independently away from home, living like an adult and telling her parents EXACTLY what she thinks hey need to know, and her parents would be satisfied with that.
By the time she brought him home to meet them it would probably be in order to announce their engagement and once the chap had a decent job there would be very little conversation about an age gap.
There were far fewer single fathers 30 years ago too.
It’s very hard to tell your mother to mind her own business when your sleeping in a bed in her house and washing your clothes in her washing machine.

Yellow pack crisps

splinter65 wrote: »

Earlier in this thread I was summarily dismissed for suggesting that a 19 year girl is not the same person now as they once were.
I said that 19 year olds are a lot more cosseted then they were.
I can say this confidently because I have a 20 year old and was a 20 year old girl myself over 30 years ago.
30 years ago there’s a good chance that this girl would be living and working independently away from home, living like an adult and telling her parents EXACTLY what she thinks hey need to know, and her parents would be satisfied with that.
By the time she brought him home to meet them it would probably be in order to announce their engagement and once the chap had a decent job there would be very little conversation about an age gap.
There were far fewer single fathers 30 years ago too.
It’s very hard to tell your mother to mind her own business when your sleeping in a bed in her house and washing your clothes in her washing machine.

Lots of 19 year olds live outside of the home, lots pay ‘rent’ at home. Are you that delusional that just because they live at home they have to abide by your principles and Ethics? I went on a date with a 38 year old who still lived at home. Should she seek approval from her parents?

splinter65

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

Lots of 19 year olds live outside of the home, lots pay ‘rent’ at home. Are you that delusional that just because they live at home they have to abide by your principles and Ethics? I went on a date with a 38 year old who still lived at home. Should she seek approval from her parents?

If she’s not having to abide by the house rules then why did her mother feel free to come out to the car to admonish him?
It’s you that are delusional I you think any 19 year old still living at home has any privacy.
Yes some 19 year olds still do move out but not many.
Don’t forget I know loads!
Once again I will say, if she were living out of the home place , she, nor he, would have to answer to no one.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

So a 19 year old can vote, live independently, drink alcohol, can have sex with whom they choose to, can choose to live in Outer Mongolia if they so wish, can basically choose anything a 65 yr old person can! But they cannot choose who they want to date! Bizarre!

A) 19 year olds can do all that yes and many do, however this particular one is still at home with mammy. Mammy still feels it's appropriate to have a firm chat with boyfriends. That, imo, is a more solid foundation on which to assess the likely maturity of this 19 year old than any of amount of backpackers and tech wunderkinds.

nobody is saying they can't choose who to date. But young people very very often make bad choices. The world is absolutely littered with people who have degrees and tattoos and marriages and criminal records and lizards and debt which they bitterly regret and which seemed like a fantastic idea in late adolescence. People change hugely and quickly at that age, no not literally every single person but yes, most people.

What genuinely, in good faith, is a good choice for her now may not be in a year, and the chances of that happening are higher than with someone older. As much for the OPs sake as hers, he needs to go into this relationship very very certain it's worth the inevitable family and social trouble and able to take the hurt if it comes. I'd also be wary of believing every fairytale age gap romance you read online. There are weird people in the world.

OP how would you react if say, she put off education plans to stay nearer to you? How do you think telling the mother of your child about her is likely to go? Age gap relationships can and do work, but relatively rarely. I really don't think this is a situation to go into with your heart leading you, you have to be more clear headed than you seem to be being.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I mean, after two dates with this super mature sensible grown woman, she's calling you in a state over a fight with her mother.

And you are saying to this super mature sensible grown woman words to the effect of "calm down, and go give your mother a hug, she's only looking out for you".

From what I can gather, plenty of posters think is just a normal dynamic in a relationship and people who wince at it are prudish busybodies but JFC.

Zaph

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Just to give an alternative viewpoint on this OP, Permabear's experience with his friends isn't necessarily a given. Like him, I'm a lot older than my wife (when we met I was 41 and she was 23. We're together 9 years, married over 5). However our friends and family were instantly accepting of the relationship and never expressed any concerns to either of us. Now I'm not sure which is the more typical experience, but I just felt it was worth pointing out that neither is a given. I do agree though that we probably got a few raised eyebrows when out in public in the early days, but whether they stopped or whether we just stopped noticing it's hard to say.

I'm in the fortunate position that my wife's family were friendly and welcoming from the first time I met them and I've always got on great with them, so I'm afraid I can't offer any specific advice on the issue with the mother. But I would suggest that if things develop further you make it as apparent as you can that you're not viewing her daughter as a notch on your bedpost, even if that means taking things more slowly than you both may like. If she sees her daughter being treated respectfully it may go some way towards allaying any concerns she has. However this may be something she never gets over and if that's the case you'll need to decide between you whether you can carry on a relationship under those circumstances. Unfortunately that's probably a discussion that should be had sooner rather than later if it doesn't look like the mother will change her mind.

Yellow pack crisps

splinter65 wrote: »

If she’s not having to abide by the house rules then why did her mother feel free to come out to the car to admonish him?
It’s you that are delusional I you think any 19 year old still living at home has any privacy.
Yes some 19 year olds still do move out but not many.
Don’t forget I know loads!
Once again I will say, if she were living out of the home place , she, nor he, would have to answer to no one.

Why did the mother do it? There could be a plethora of reasons! Again being 19 is an adult age it’s really none of a parents business to do what her mother did! And what house rules? This took place in the guys car and not her house so again the mother absolutely had no business confronting the guy she is dating! If she was that concerned she should have spoken to her daughter in the privacy of her home and gaged whether her daughter had a good handle on what she wanted. You know loads of 19 yr olds? So what? I know loads of over bearing mothers who ruin their relationship with their children because of such behavior.

Ursus Horribilis

Did Splinter65 hit a sore note with you or something? You're very angry over something that I think is realistic and does happen.

leggo

I wouldn’t say it’s gross or morally wrong at the ages given (now add 10 years to the OP and it starts to get into morally shady territory that’s case-by-case) but one thing I’d be wary of with girls this age, having recently entered my 30’s and attracted a lot of attention from younger women (more than I would’ve 2-3 years ago even), is that you have to be conscious that you may be part of a ‘phase’ in this person’s life, an experiment based on dating someone who’s at an age where a lot of people don’t know who they are or what they want. So be careful if it starts to get to a serious level for you: you may see this as going the distance whereas you may be far more disposable in her eyes than she is to you because she’s got the world to experience.

As for the mother? It could be a story you all sit around the kitchen table and laugh at one day. As some have said, this argument alone has likely made you 5x more attractive in the short term. But I’d also back off a bit and let this girl figure out what she wants. As someone alluded to already, the fact that the mother felt she could interfere directly and doesn’t trust her daughter’s judgement would also be worth taking a mental note. At face value it’d suggest that maybe this person isn’t as mature as she seems and perhaps has form for poor decisions with men (although the mother could just be interfering in general, too, though you note she was nice about it so that wouldn’t suggest she’s just a difficult person). Try figure out why that actually was in future interactions with her, if you guys keep going, and be brutally honest in your assessment rather than just believing her explanation because it’s what you want to believe.

In short: try not to put too much into this emotionally, stay guarded and keep a critical eye open for how this could go tits up.

Yellow pack crisps

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Did Splinter65 hit a sore note with you or something? You're very angry over something that I think is realistic and does

Not at all! And I’m not angry in the least! Just giving my point of view. Personally I have a 4 year age gap rule. But each to their own. I think the OP is being made out to be creepy for no good reason. They are both adults and that is the reality of it. And if I had a 19 year old daughter I wouldn’t be happy about it at all, but rather than shame her like that I would talk to her privately in a non judgemental way.

splinter65

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

Why did the mother do it? There could be a plethora of reasons! Again being 19 is an adult age it’s really none of a parents business to do what her mother did! And what house rules? This took place in the guys car and not her house so again the mother absolutely had no business confronting the guy she is dating! If she was that concerned she should have spoken to her daughter in the privacy of her home and gaged whether her daughter had a good handle on what she wanted. You know loads of 19 yr olds? So what? I know loads of over bearing mothers who ruin their relationship with their children because of such behavior.

Your missing the point.
You’re not independent if you can’t afford to or don’t want to move out of home,
If this girl had her own place she could invite the guy in or not and could definitley be dropped off in his car without her parents knowing diddley squat about him or anything.
They don’t need to know.
She’s involving them by simply relying on them for a roof over her head.
When I was 19 I was out already a year to either sink or swim on my own.
I could bring home the Yorkshire Ripper to my flat if I wanted to.
You don’t see that so much any more.

Yellow pack crisps

splinter65 wrote: »

Your missing the point.
You’re not independent if you can’t afford to or don’t want to move out of home,
If this girl had her own place she could invite the guy in or not and could definitley be dropped off in his car without her parents knowing diddley squat about him or anything.
They don’t need to know.
She’s involving them by simply relying on them for a roof over her head.
When I was 19 I was out already a year to either sink or swim on my own.
I could bring home the Yorkshire Ripper to my flat if I wanted to.
You don’t see that so much any more.

Ok, so if your in your 30’s and living at home is it the same deal?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

splinter65

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

Ok, so if your in your 30’s and living at home is it the same deal?

If you’re in your 30s and still/back living at home then I deeply sympathize with you.
Maybe your parents can grit their teeth and resist enquiring about your plans for NYE or any Saturday night, or maybe they feel they deserve to know if you are going to arrive home at 4.10am pissed again putting on your Robbie Williams CD to have a boogie around the sitting room?
Maybe they have a right to know if you plan to hook up with a strange guy and bring him back to their house to shag at top volume for 2 hours?
Because it is , you know , their house and they have a right to peace and to feel safe?
Personally I would live in a tent in the park rather than live with my mother either now or at any age since I first left, and she feels EXACTLY the same about me.

splinter65

Both of my best friends married guys 15 years older then them.
Neither were living at home when they met.
Actually both mothers were dead, funnily enough.
One guy had been married and divorced with 2 very angry teenage children , the other was a batchelor.
Both marriages are long lasting and happy thank God.
Both my bridesmaids are married to pensioners!

Yellow pack crisps

splinter65 wrote: »

If you’re in your 30s and still/back living at home then I deeply sympathize with you.
Maybe your parents can grit their teeth and resist enquiring about your plans for NYE or any Saturday night, or maybe they feel they deserve to know if you are going to arrive home at 4.10am pissed again putting on your Robbie Williams CD to have a boogie around the sitting room?
Maybe they have a right to know if you plan to hook up with a strange guy and bring him back to their house to shag at top volume for 2 hours?
Because it is , you know , their house and they have a right to peace and to feel safe?
Personally I would live in a tent in the park rather than live with my mother either now or at any age since I first left, and she feels EXACTLY the same about me.

Sure. But I don’t mean that. Again the 19 yr old didn’t bring the guy back to her house. She/they got confronted outside. According to you if a son/daughter will not or does not have the means to move out then does give the parent the right to interfere in their life choices?

Ursus Horribilis

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

Ok, so if you're in your 30’s and living at home is it the same deal?

I would be very worried if anyone in their 30s, still at home, was like a 19 year old. The difference between the two should be like night and day. These days, with kids starting school at 5 and there being a transition year, many 19 year olds are only just sitting their leaving cert or have barely finished school. In other word they have feck all life experience under their belt. 20 years ago, your average 19 year old was already 2 years finished school and either at college or working. And while we all know 19 year olds are legally adults, those lines get very blurred when it comes to their parents. I've relatives/colleagues who have children of that age and they're living a very different life to the ones myself and my peers did 20 years ago.

Ursus Horribilis

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

Sure. But I don’t mean that. Again the 19 yr old didn’t bring the guy back to her house. She/they got confronted outside. According to you if a son/daughter will not or does not have the means to move out then does give the parent the right to interfere in their life choices?

The parents might not have the right to interfere but they will.

Did you live at home at 19 and did you ever bring someone home to shag?

splinter65

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

Sure. But I don’t mean that. Again the 19 yr old didn’t bring the guy back to her house. She/they got confronted outside. According to you if a son/daughter will not or does not have the means to move out then does give the parent the right to interfere in their life choices?

It’s not that it gives them the “right”.
It’s just absolutely inevitable.
There’s no way the relationship between the parent and child can be “equal”.
The parents have a right to enjoy peaceful occupation of the home they have worked to pay for.
They have a right to set rules which would typically not suit a 19 year old single person.
They are deeply concerned for their daughter . Wether you like it or not that is perfectly natural.
She chose to involve them in this romance by telling them about her boyfriends circumstances
AND
Allowing him to drop her home thus presenting her mother with the perfect opportunity to make her feelings known.
She can’t complain now.

Yellow pack crisps

splinter65 wrote: »

It’s not that it gives them the “right”.
It’s just absolutely inevitable.
There’s no way the relationship between the parent and child can be “equal”.
The parents have a right to enjoy peaceful occupation of the home they have worked to pay for.
They have a right to set rules which would typically not suit a 19 year old single person.
They are deeply concerned for their daughter . Wether you like it or not that is perfectly natural.
She chose to involve them in this romance by telling them about her boyfriends circumstances
AND
Allowing him to drop her home thus presenting her mother with the perfect opportunity to make her feelings known.
She can’t complain now.

Right! Of course. I would be concerned also. But here is the thing, you say 19 years old today are not as capable as 19 yr olds of 20 years ago right? Is that their fault or their parents so? Why did the mother have to treat the 19 year old as a child and confront the older guy in the manner she did? Would it of not been better and better fir the 19 year old to have a conversation about it just the parents and her and discuss it as three adults? (Mother,father, daughter) is it really fair for you and horrible to pre determine 19yrd olds as being not as mature or street smart as you both evidently were at that age and then declare they need to be treated more as children than as adults? Is that not part of the problem of what you see as the apparent lacking of maturity in 19 year olds ‘these days’

splinter65

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

Right! Of course. I would be concerned also. But here is the thing, you say 19 years old today are not as capable as 19 yr olds of 20 years ago right? Is that their fault or their parents so? Why did the mother have to treat the 19 year old as a child and confront the older guy in the manner she did? Would it of not been better and better fir the 19 year old to have a conversation about it just the parents and her and discuss it as three adults? (Mother,father, daughter) is it really fair for you and horrible to pre determine 19yrd olds as being not as mature or street smart as you both evidently were at that age and then declare they need to be treated more as children than as adults? Is that not part of the problem of what you see as the apparent lacking of maturity in 19 year olds ‘these days’

I’m entirely to blame for my daughters immaturity and lack of personal responsibility.
I’m painting her as a feckless idiot and of course she’s not but she isn’t anything like as independent or self contained as I was at her age, or as I would have liked her to be.
I’m working hard on my own personal issues surrounding control, which is ironic, as we all fled from my mothers home due to her controlling ways.
I don’t seem to be able to cope with the concept of allowing her to make mistakes and learn from them.
I know this means that deep down I don’t trust her ability to cope with stress or pressure.
I’m working on this as I said, I possibly even need help with this.
When I left home it was well pre the era when we started worrying if our children were “happy” or not.
I don’t know how old you are but there was a time in Ireland where parents were not concerned about their kids “happiness”.
I don’t know when it started but I can tell you it’s resultingvin some pretty entitled privileged young people, which doesn’t necessarily lead to happiness at all, quite the opposite.

Ursus Horribilis

I think the later age at which youngsters sit the Leaving Cert has caused something of a time lag in youngsters. They're older in some ways but they're still very much kids in others. Seeing as most people were sitting the Leaving Cert at 17 back in the day, they'd have had more edges knocked off them by the time they were 19. The biggest problem here is that the OP's 19 year old has not yet had a chance to define the boundary between her and her parents. Parents continue to see their children as kids even when the date on their birth cert says otherwise. In time that gets sorted but that hasn't happened in this particular home.

splinter65

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I think the later age at which youngsters sit the Leaving Cert has caused something of a time lag in youngsters. They're older in some ways but they're still very much kids in others. Seeing as most people were sitting the Leaving Cert at 17 back in the day, they'd have had more edges knocked off them by the time they were 19. The biggest problem here is that the OP's 19 year old has not yet had a chance to define the boundary between her and her parents. Parents continue to see their children as kids even when the date on their birth cert says otherwise. In time that gets sorted but that hasn't happened in this particular home.

My 40 year old batchelor neighbor takes his turn to stay with his parents 100 miles away about 1 weekend per month.
Even for those two nights his mother reverts to his teenage years, “where are you going “ “I hope your not meeting so and so he’s such a bad influence” “ what time will you be home” “ please don’t drink and drive” “ you need a coat”.
My daughter was 19 doing her leaving and going away to college.
Her first year in college was a disaster because she couldn’t cope with having to look after herself at all.
She’s our only child and I did absolutely everything for her.
She’s getting on much better this year but still needs and demands a lot of help .

Yellow pack crisps

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m entirely to blame for my daughters immaturity and lack of personal responsibility.
I’m painting her as a feckless idiot and of course she’s not but she isn’t anything like as independent or self contained as I was at her age, or as I would have liked her to be.
I’m working hard on my own personal issues surrounding control, which is ironic, as we all fled from my mothers home due to her controlling ways.
I don’t seem to be able to cope with the concept of allowing her to make mistakes and learn from them.
I know this means that deep down I don’t trust her ability to cope with stress or pressure.
I’m working on this as I said, I possibly even need help with this.
When I left home it was well pre the era when we started worrying if our children were “happy” or not.
I don’t know how old you are but there was a time in Ireland where parents were not concerned about their kids “happiness”.
I don’t know when it started but I can tell you it’s resultingvin some pretty entitled privileged young people, which doesn’t necessarily lead to happiness at all, quite the opposite.

I admire your honesty. But none of us know the circumstances or maturity levels of this girl, she could be mature and have an overbearing mother who tries to smother her rather than nurture her or she could be very immature. I think in today’s Ireland living at home shouldn’t be seen as lacking the fiber to leave the nest so to speak as a lot of mature, hardworking people of all ages struggle to pay rent or buy a house. You could be most mature 19 yr old intte world and still have to live at home because there is a rental crisis in Ireland right now. My point is everyone seems to point to the 19 year old as the immature one purely for living at home! But as you admitted yourself a lot of parents have control issues and won’t let their children live their own life and make their own mistakes and then bizzarely blame their children for being immature. I’m probably from a similar era to you and yes parents were not the all involved specimen they are today but to be honest both sets of values seem as bad as each other.

Ursus Horribilis

I think we're all wandering off-point now. Problem for our OP is that this young lady's mammy felt it was OK to come out and warn him off. And that she isn't yet at the stage where she can tell the mammy to mind her own business. This suggests that there's still a lot to trash out between her and her parents.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

LegacyUser

I'll go anon for this , I don't expect a positive reaction just a viewpoint of someone who was there. At 38 I met a girl at a wedding she had just turned 17 the day previous (I had no idea) we ended up at the same table for the meal and just hit it off , danced away that night she was smoking and drinking I considered her an adult never asked age , she told me later that night she was 17 I was shocked BUT its legal she stayed with me that night in my room we had sex , she was a virgin I later found out.

We swapped numbers and met up a couple of days later , I had a house , she was living at home with her parents . Her parents were not happy you could tell by there faces but they didn't comment ever to me about it , she was in 5th year in school and I often collected her from school and brought her back to mine , I received a lot of abuse off almost everyone even good friends didn't want to meet us as a couple , I was called a pedo at the school and other stuff. We stayed together for 2 years but I never went to any events , any parties , weddings , debs etc she attended with her best mate from school.

I didn't go out looking for a 17 year old I knew she was a lot younger than me , in my mind I did nothing wrong the relationship was normal outside the stuff like collecting her from school , she had her own mind , we argued about the same thing I argue with with women my own age. It wasn't like I had control over her , one of the biggest things we would argue about it her low sex drive she didn't want it more than once a week ( this might be TMI) but I have added it for context as people used to assume I brought her back in her school uniform as a sexual fantasy and had my way whenever I wanted , she was head strong and would push you away. She was more mature than older women I have been with but the age gap finally told and when she went to college she start going out with girls and fellas her own age and ended up with one of these guys. I don't think I've done her any harm I think we both knew that this wasn't going to be longterm she was on the pill and we used condoms also to be double sure the last thing we both wanted was a child. Her parents letting it go probably did her a favour , they let her find her own way.

Before anyone starts calling me a pedo or sick , just remember I am not breaking the law , I think if most men in there 30's and 40's are honest they would love to be doing the same.