Why do we even bother??

Grizzly 45

Humpado Christ!!:mad::mad::mad: Read this and the judges comments and then consider all this BS we have to put up with as straight players.

So the HCAP and deer tags would, of course, sort out gob****es like this? Who literally have driven 3hours from Roscommon to Clare and get almost commended by the judge for good work?: mad:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/wildlife-service-should-kill-more-deer-says-judge-464005.html

Vegeta

Grizz, I know of two cases locally where people were caught red handed breaking wildlife laws, in possession of a deer with no deer license, and nothing was done about it. Quite frustrating.

But in fairness, with respect to the article you linked to, the relevant agencies were doing their jobs here. It was the judge who let the side down.

useurowname

Absolute nonsense, literally given a pat on the back by the judge for shooting deer by lamp and out of season with no permit. Well said op why do we bother, I was talking about regulation an bag limits in another thread and this is the reality .

cookimonster

I'm dumbfounded..... I taught this was going to be something like 'he shot a stag on the 1st of Jan....' but when it details the time of day, I can't believe it was delt with so poorly . This was no way poaching by mistake more like absolute premeditated.

Vegeta

This is exactly why we constantly object to knee jerk reactions aimed at preventing poaching. They will only impact the law abiding hunters.
This is what a modern poacher looks like, doesn't care what species, sex or time of day it is. Doesn't have a flippin license!

Will the HCAP stop any poaching? It will in me hoop, money grab plain and simple.

grassroot1

Words fail me, the BS we have to deal with day in and day out. These lads are bare faced poaching and caught red handed and an idiot judge who clearly disregards the facts of the case lets them off scott free.
I have in the past been critical of the authorities but why would the uphold the law and take a case when this is the outcome.

badaj0z

I wonder if he had his HCAP cert?

Grizzly 45

17;45 hrs today on Matt Cooper , the last word. WADI, Haley Rae[God help us!] and a recent claim of a 70% deer cull and the country Clare court case.

LATER.
A ten-minute slot with Hanigan of WADI making good points about the situation out there on the ground, and Haely Rae making his usual outlandish and bizarre statements.

Grizzly 45

Vegeta wrote: »

G
But in fairness, with respect to the article you linked to, the relevant agencies were doing their jobs here. It was the judge who let the side down.

But when you see comments like this on the WADI FB account then you really know Aughrim is lost!


Co Roscommon man pleads guilty to deer poaching in Co Clare but comments made during the case maybe unhelpful and misinformed in combating wildlife crime and deer management in Ireland. It is an offence to kill deer at night at any time of the year. The annual hunter cull returns shows the deer cull in Co Clare has declined in recent years, despite an increase in the number of hunters. Such illegal activity may have been responsible for this decline. NPWS are not responsible for deer management in Ireland, this is the responsibility of the landowner or person(s) with the shooting rights and the deer population of Co Clare or any other county is unknown.

feartuath

Unbelievable.
This goes on down here all the time and they are locals at it also.
There are not poacher, they are lads with deer licences and rifles who are commercial hunters.
All year round

ayagerard

Judge Durcan said that if the man was not three weeks late shooting the deer, he would not be guilty.

<mod snip>


if he was 3 hours or 3 minutes late he broke the law after dark with a lamp

Giving details about the case, Insp Kennedy said locals heard shots fired at Gortnaderra at around 10.30pm on January 21. He said Garda Hilda Moloney stopped a jeep with four occupants.

Judge Durcan said Mr Dolan is a decent man, had pleaded guilty at the first opportunity “and I am not going to criminalise him over this. He has done all the right things.”
i feel sorry for inspector kennedy on this one he done his part, that has to be acknowledged would the guard have confiscated mr dolans rifle as evidence at the time ?????? will the npws issue another deer licence to him if they doo it is a farce ... like wise a couple of cattle rustlers got of scot free on suspended sentences last week in kerry http://www.radiokerry.ie/three-men-given-suspended-sentences-mid-kerry-cattle-rustling-incident/ there seems to be no law for some

Birdnuts

Sets a very dangerous precedent!!:(

grassroot1

Birdnuts wrote: »

Sets a very dangerous precedent!!:(

Well I dont know why would any of us now bother doing everything the legal way?

useurowname

grassroot1 wrote: »

Well I dont know why would any of us now bother doing everything the legal way?

Because we don't need to told when we are doing right or wrong, we know when we are doing the right thing . What bugs me is that judgements like this tells the cowboys they can do what they want and that laws and regulations are meaningless.

gunny123

This country must be the best in the world to commit crime, you are basically going to get a slap on the wrist no matter what shenanigans you get up to.

I wonder will the superintendent revoke this lads rifle licence, or would he have the power to ?

Nekarsulm

I don't know where you got Cavan from, Grizzly, as I see no mention of it in the article.
But two things I do know. That Judge is an idiot, and if a Guard or Wildlife Ranger in Cavan had caught them, it would probably take years and thousands of Euro to get your gun back.
Try duck shooting without a foreshore licence, (if you boat passes State/Coilte lands) and see how long you last.

Grizzly 45

100% right Neckersulm, should have been Roscommon. My bad.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

This country must be the best in the world to commit crime, you are basically going to get a slap on the wrist no matter what shenanigans you get up to.

I wonder will the superintendent revoke this lads rifle licence, or would he have the power to?

Very much so on both counts.
The super could justifiably say in this case he had good reason to revoke his license on the grounds of him violating his conditions.While cleared of the crime, he could state that there is a risk of re-offence by this person.
Whether he would do it or NPWS blacklist his name for any future[doubtful] applications is another matter.:mad:

solarwinds

Judge Durcan said that if the man was not three weeks late shooting the deer, he would not be guilty.


I dont even know where to start with that statement.
So does that mean if i am caught drink driving the judge will through it out because sure if the guards had done their job and bagged me 3 hours earlier i wouldnt have committed a crime so therefore im not a criminal.
I wonder was the judge in the actual courtroom at the time of this case.

Shooting deer with a lamp - Illegal

Shooting out of season without a valid deer licence - Illegal

And in my opinion wreckless discharge, noise pollution and down right dodginess all round.
And yet he done everything right for god sake its a joke.

These types of people ignore the laws already in place so who thinks that by introducing even more laws that this will stop poaching. Its just more laws and regulations for them to break and ignore while the rest of us should be given honourary degrees in law to make sure we dont slip up somewhere.

Grizzly 45

Notice the potential "disaster waiting to happen" RE Lamping comment at the end?? Sound familiar from a few months ago??



The IFA and the Wild Deer Association of Ireland call for tougher sentences for Illegal Deer Hunting. Following our interviews on Today FM and Radio Kerry, coverage of our joint interview with the IFA on Clare FM today.

We expect to see the highly successful Operation Bambi extended to Co Clare, a joint operation between the NPWS, An Garda Siochana and the Wild Deer Association of Ireland combating the illegal killing of wild deer. IFA and local landowners could also support this initiative which puts people living in rural at risk of injury or death.

ayagerard

OUTRAGE AS EIGHT DEER FOUND SLAUGHTERED NEAR ARDS FRIARY

i would like to hear judge durcans opinion on the above
there is 2000 euro involved here broad day light and it is rampant
any thing that will stop this must be considered

Well I dont know why would any of us now bother doing everything the legal way?
i think this will answer your question

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But when you see comments like this on the WADI FB account then you really know Aughrim is lost!


Co Roscommon man pleads guilty to deer poaching in Co Clare but comments made during the case maybe unhelpful and misinformed in combating wildlife crime and deer management in Ireland. It is an offence to kill deer at night at any time of the year. The annual hunter cull returns shows the deer cull in Co Clare has declined in recent years, despite an increase in the number of hunters. Such illegal activity may have been responsible for this decline. NPWS are not responsible for deer management in Ireland, this is the responsibility of the landowner or person(s) with the shooting rights and the deer population of Co Clare or any other county is unknown.

Funny how they claim the NPWS are not responsible for deer management but they claim responsibility for licensing, land checks, returns, etc.

If the land owner/sporting rights owner is responsible then surely they should issue licenses and then the WDAI, NPWS and the deer alliance crowd can all piss off with their hcap, for good.

Talk about passing the buck.

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Very much so on both counts.
The super could justifiably say in this case he had good reason to revoke his license on the grounds of him violating his conditions.While cleared of the crime, he could state that there is a risk of re-offence by this person.
Whether he would do it or NPWS blacklist his name for any future[doubtful] applications is another matter.:mad:

Not so sure Grizz.

There was case in the paper last week about the gardai turning up at a house with a warrant to search. An old boy in the house refused them entry, as the case was concerning his son and not him, he told them he had a legally held gun in the house, the garda retreated and did not search.

The guy had his firearms licences revolked, but he went to court and the judge said the licences should be returned.

ayagerard

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Notice the potential "disaster waiting to happen" RE Lamping comment at the end?? Sound familiar from a few months ago??



The IFA and the Wild Deer Association of Ireland call for tougher sentences for Illegal Deer Hunting. Following our interviews on Today FM and Radio Kerry, coverage of our joint interview with the IFA on Clare FM today.

We expect to see the highly successful Operation Bambi extended to Co Clare, a joint operation between the NPWS, An Garda Siochana and the Wild Deer Association of Ireland combating the illegal killing of wild deer. IFA and local landowners could also support this initiative which puts people living in rural at risk of injury or death.

shure wouldn't you think it was their job what are they payed for

nation wide i would think to be better , i don't think you would see lads shooting foxes 50 miles from their residence at all hours of the night if they had work in the morning , but maybe this is their job a 222 in the front for the odd fox with a 308 moderated with night vision behind the seat, wouldn't it be great to hear of a few jeeps being confiscated as evidence that would raise a few eyebrows they aint driving clapped out 06-08

solarwinds

NPWS are not responsible for deer management in Ireland, this is the responsibility of the landowner or person(s) with the shooting rights 


So does this mean a farmer who has a problem with deer can call on anyone to shoot the vermin on his own land.
And if the npws have no responsibility over the deer how can they say that and then in the next breath demand evidence of a non legitimate course in order to get a licence.
Somebody needs to clarify with them what exactly their role is. They have responsibility or they dont.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

Not so sure Grizz.

There was case in the paper last week about the gardai turning up at a house with a warrant to search. An old boy in the house refused them entry, as the case was concerning his son and not him, he told them he had a legally held gun in the house, the garda retreated and did not search.

The guy had his firearms licences revoked, but he went to court and the judge said the licences should be returned.

Like everything here in this country.There is no consistency in what goes on.Try that in Limerick and you could be assured the old coot would have found himself staring down a half dozen HK MP5 barrels being wielded by the AGS Ninja squad [AKA ERU], within the hour.
Of course, he could go back to court and try to reclaim it, but it could be a hard sell to a district court judge,where a Super could prove criminal intent.But then again maybe not...As I said consistency, we don't do it much here on issues like this.

Nekarsulm

gunny123 wrote: »

Not so sure Grizz.

There was case in the paper last week about the gardai turning up at a house with a warrant to search. An old boy in the house refused them entry, as the case was concerning his son and not him, he told them he had a legally held gun in the house, the garda retreated and did not search.

The guy had his firearms licences revolked, but he went to court and the judge said the licences should be returned.

http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-pensioner-3723479-Nov2017/

ayagerard

Nekarsulm wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-pensioner-3723479-Nov2017/

Supt John Galvin said that the incident involved Danaher being trapped in a container which caught fire. He said that there was no allegation that Danaher used the gun or threatened to use it on any occasion. Supt Galvin said that he made the decision to revoke the licence as a result of public safety concerns.

I HEREBY SOLEMNLY AND SINCERELY DECLARE BEFORE GOD THAT_

I WILL FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES OF A MEMBER OF THE GARDA SIOCHANA WITH FAIRNESS, INTEGRITY, REGARD FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, DILIGENCE AND IMPARTIALITY, UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAW AND ACCORDING EQUAL RESPECT TO ALL PEOPLE.

how many guards does it take to change a light bulb if 3 guards could not restrain an old age pensioner forget it p45 i think not fit for purpose
if supt john galvin had safety concerns , he could have accompanied to over see the proceedings, danaher might have recognized his nice uniform and cap and would have been on hand to ring for the ambulance for any scrapes received the 3 guards while carrying out their duty , no one mentioned the firearm but the guards , typical response on all occasions the local guard should have be on hand if only for identification purposes , on the wording of the above and what i have read fair play to danaher on this one he kept the thugs out single handed what ever other issues the man may have

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-pensioner-3723479-Nov2017/

Same Judge...What a coincidence:P...However, in this case, I have to agree with both him and the old duffer in this story. Three goons show up, driving a car beloved of both AGS and lower-ranking criminals alike and claim they are Gardai and do the patented"quick flip ID" used by police worldwide and claim they have a warrant.,of which there was no mention was it shown to the farmer...In the middle of nowhere... Yeah, justified enough reaction.

But that's Clare for you.Home of the most anti-gun Cheif super who stated publically in court under oath, that he believes no one should have large calibre firearms ,bar police and military personnel.In one of the handgun cases in Kerry a few years ago.There are a few folks on boards here who can easily verify that statement from hands-on experience,[inc myself]

garrettod

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

....Home of the most anti-gun Cheif super who stated publically in court under oath, that he believes no one should have large calibre firearms ,bar police and military personnel....

Sounds like he's a great fella, but what specifically is he doing to stop all the criminals from having whatever large calibre firearms they fancy ?


He needs to open his eyes to the reality of the situation.... If guns are made criminal, only criminals will have guns !


Those of us who do the paperwork, willingly subject ourselves to scrutiny from the Gardai, accept delays in getting a firearm for a genuine purpose and then even pay another indirect tax every three years (per firearm !) for the pleasure of all this, should be the very least of his worries and in fact, be the people he holds in the highest regard !


.
.

Grizzly 45

Seriously???Shooting deer in a Christmas display...
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-5210083/Children-told-dead-reindeer-returned-North-Pole.html

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Seriously???Shooting deer in a Christmas display...
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-5210083/Children-told-dead-reindeer-returned-North-Pole.html

Charming. Everyone working hard to improve the public perception of hunting and legal gun ownership, and a couple of toe-rags undo it all for a few measly quid. :mad:

Capercaillie

Cass wrote: »

Funny how they claim the NPWS are not responsible for deer management but they claim responsibility for licensing, land checks, returns, etc.

If the land owner/sporting rights owner is responsible then surely they should issue licenses and then the WDAI, NPWS and the deer alliance crowd can all piss off with their hcap, for good.

Talk about passing the buck.

NPWS budget has been drastically cut in the last 10 years and has chronic staff shortages.

Grizzly 45

Understandable,but then why claim they are not responsible for deer management in the state,but still issue lics,sect 42s etc?

John_Rambo

useurowname wrote: »

Absolute nonsense, literally given a pat on the back by the judge for shooting deer by lamp and out of season with no permit. Well said op why do we bother, I was talking about regulation an bag limits in another thread and this is the reality .

Could be something to do with our post-colonial hangover. A legacy issue where poachers were traditionally hard-done-by working men trying to "put food on the plate" in a Robin Hood fashion whilst the lord of the manor feasts on guinea foul, boar, snipe and rainbow trout.

I'd be very unsurprised if the judge see's things this way. Most of them live in la-la land.

Merry xmas folks, hope 2018 fares well for you.

Cass

Capercaillie wrote: »

NPWS budget has been drastically cut in the last 10 years and has chronic staff shortages.

I know, i've said it umpteen times over the years, but its no excuse for inaction over the last 40 years or trying to pass the buck.

Capercaillie

Cass wrote: »

I know, i've said it umpteen times over the years, but its no excuse for inaction over the last 40 years or trying to pass the buck.

Deer numbers except Red Deer are not a priority. NPWS have far more important species and habitats to attend to.

Cass

Capercaillie wrote: »

Deer numbers except Red Deer are not a priority.

According to you, unless you work for the NPWS and can speak, officially, on their behalf this is only supposition.

NPWS have far more important species and habitats to attend to.

I have no information that proves that wrong, but considering the NPWS have pulled rangers from other counties to "police" counties with higher deer poaching, the fact they have joined the unelected representative group known as the deer management forum, and that they are solely and directly responsible for the issuing of licenses and prosecution of illegal hunting of deer means the buck stops with them.

Deer poaching and illegal hunting of deer is the most publicized i have ever heard of. I've either rarely or never heard of the same level of policing/prosecution of poaching of Curlew, Partridge, Geese, Duck, Hare, etc, etc, etc.

So if there are more important species to attend to then why not simply admit they are overburdened, cannot handle their duties, hand over the reins to another, properly elected/appointed, group that can and stop trying to control it via more unnecessary legislation whose only purpose is to try make up for their short comings?

Grizzly 45

John_Rambo wrote: »

Cwhilst the lord of the manor feasts on guinea foul, boar, snipe and rainbow trout.

Dunno would you be doing much feasting on that lot.But you are right about the Guinea Foul[Sic] They are rather "foul" alright.Tough as aul boots,the last one I ate in Hungary.:D

Capercaillie

Cass wrote: »

According to you, unless you work for the NPWS and can speak, officially, on their behalf this is only supposition.

I have no information that proves that wrong, but considering the NPWS have pulled rangers from other counties to "police" counties with higher deer poaching, the fact they have joined the unelected representative group known as the deer management forum, and that they are solely and directly responsible for the issuing of licenses and prosecution of illegal hunting of deer means the buck stops with them.

Deer poaching and illegal hunting of deer is the most publicized i have ever heard of. I've either rarely or never heard of the same level of policing/prosecution of poaching of Curlew, Partridge, Geese, Duck, Hare, etc, etc, etc.

So if there are more important species to attend to then why not simply admit they are overburdened, cannot handle their duties, hand over the reins to another, properly elected/appointed, group that can and stop trying to control it via more unnecessary legislation whose only purpose is to try make up for their short comings?

Deer poaching is much less a priorty than conservation efforts on the species you mentioned (curlew, grey partridge, Geese etc).I would agree with you that (if possible) duties could be delegated on deer management, with exception of Kerry Red deer.
Non-native deer need to be managed so that deer number do not have an effect on habitats such as native forestry. Any groups that would take over management must not keep deer levels at high levels that would cause habitat damage.

Cass

Capercaillie wrote: »

Any groups that would take over management must not keep deer levels at high levels that would cause habitat damage.

A catch-22 situation because i dread the thoughts of one of the vested interests groups getting their hands on deer management and being able to enforce it with any sort of authority.

Just look to the hcap debacle to see where their priorities are.

Capercaillie

Cass wrote: »

A catch-22 situation because i dread the thoughts of one of the vested interests groups getting their hands on deer management and being able to enforce it with any sort of authority.

Just look to the hcap debacle to see where their priorities are.

Who are the "vested interest groups"?

Cass

All laid out in this thread.

gunny123

Anyone else around the country see any of the "go vegan" billboards ? A few have popped up near me in dublin.

Cass

If they make Broccoli more fun to hunt than a deer, and cauliflower taste like bacon i'll consider it.

John_Rambo

gunny123 wrote: »

Anyone else around the country see any of the "go vegan" billboards ? A few have popped up near me in dublin.

Go graffiti and spray

"More stuff for us to shoot!!"

Underneath it.

Grizzly 45

Supposedly in Limerick???https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=vegan%20turkey%20ad

gozunda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Supposedly in Limerick???https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=vegan%20turkey%20ad

Linky not working? If thats the one with the cooked turkey from Aldi and another go vegan vegan advert showing a live Turkey put up by that stupid go vegan campaign on a rolling electronic billboard - yes it was situated o Gerald Griffith Street in the city afaik.

Daftest thing ever - reckon the vegans delibertly targeted the Aldi cooked turkey advert..

Kat1170

My Aldi turkey was feckin' lovely :D:D

gunny123

Kat1170 wrote: »

My Aldi turkey was feckin' lovely :D:D

Got to be better than the Tesco's ones.

ayagerard

Kat1170 wrote: »

My Aldi turkey was feckin' lovely :D:D

Fekin dear bag of spuds Hope they were dry at that price