Brexit discussion thread III

blanch152

steddyeddy wrote: »

Does the border negatively affect any cross border co-operation? I don't think you have the first clue about the Good Friday agreement and the spirit of the agreement.

The spirit of the agreement has nothing to do with legal discussions.

Call me Al

Bar_Prop wrote: »

Watching Dodds on the UTV news now I cannot fail but conclude that the DUP intention is a hard border.

Bar prop.. if that crowd could pick up their 6 counties and move them lock stock and barrel up into the sea beside the north pole to get away from us "papists" they'd do so. It must galling in the extreme to them right now to have the indifference from Westminster towards them and their belief system laid bare for all the world to see.

I don't believe a word of Arlene's recent assertions. She's in damage limitation mode. It's everyone else's fault.

Water John

No way should the Irish side engage in any tit for tat replying to Foster. She's UK's problem and wouldn't dignify the nonsense they are spouting with a reply.

tomwaterford

steddyeddy wrote: »

Does the border negatively affect any cross border co-operation? I don't think you have the first clue about the Good Friday agreement and the spirit of the agreement.

Be brilliant if this collapsed the British government:D:D. .... (also a possibilty of DUP being forever sidelined by a tory/labour party type coalition)

steddyeddy

blanch152 wrote: »

The spirit of the agreement has nothing to do with legal discussions.

One of the legalities of the GFA is cross border co-operation. Do you think the reintroduction of a hard border will negatively or positively affect that?

Are you only concerned with the letter of the law in the GFA, which was made purposely ambiguous by the way or are you concerned about the affect a hard border might have on peace?

4068ac1elhodqr

Tomorrow's potential newspaper headlines:

a. "Come on Eileen"
b. The 'Conservative Cluster____ Continues'
c. You've been 'Dup'ed' (again)
d. Countdown to Corbyn
e. Fostering Isolation on the Island

Water John

funny watching Tommy Gorman interview her, and all his body language and voice says, 'I don't believe you', when she says the Irish Govn't insisted that the UK did not show the DUP, the wording.

munsterlegend

Dario Melted Sunlamp wrote: »

Tomorrow's potential newspaper headlines:

a. "Come on Eileen"
b. The 'Conservative Cluster____ Continues'
c. You've been 'Dup'ed' (again)
d. Countdown to Corbyn
e. Fostering Isolation on the Island

May'hem. She has just been one disaster after another since she took over. On a human level you'd almost feel sorry for her but she is a Tory prime minister so no!

pc7

Genuine question, is Arlene touched? To come with her latest statement about the Irish government is bonkers. It can’t possibly be true (can it?) stating it just makes her like some crazy cat lady in a vox pop.

4068ac1elhodqr

tomwaterford wrote: »

Be brilliant if this collapsed the British government:D:D. .... (also a possibilty of DUP being forever sidelined by a tory/labour party type coalition)

That holds strong potential for an early bet for 2018, 5 is a bit low for JC to be the saviour, will wait for live election event and double digit returns.



(By the way, I also cleaned up on Trump and Brexit also :pac:).

Beechwoodspark

So another day has passed and more time wasting and chaos in London.

The clock is ticking and it looks (if we are to take the DUP at their word) as if agreement to get to phase 2 will not happen.

It's going to be a sad old Christmas for Teresa and co.

munsterlegend

Water John wrote: »

funny watching Tommy Gorman interview her, and all his body language and voice says, 'I don't believe you', when she says the Irish Govn't insisted that the UK did not show the DUP, the wording.

Foster was even dubious of it herself saying that's what we were told! Only one side telling lies here and it isn't the irish govt.

4068ac1elhodqr

munsterlegend wrote: »

May'hem. She has just been one disaster after another since she took over. On a human level you'd almost feel sorry for her but she is a Tory prime minister so no!

The conservatives have cluster____d the last 5yrs.

Broken apart Europe (just wait for Italy signal leaving next summer). They lost their clear majority (and £2bn). Now Scotland, Wales and even London want out of the UK :pac:

Itssoeasy

Arlene foster would want to have proof of her claim of the UK government telling them the Irish government blocked them from seeing the draft. That's a big claim to make. This could go badly for her and the DUP.

LeinsterDub

solodeogloria wrote: »

. This isn't ideal. I would have been keen on much more control but if it doesn't mean the UK joining the customs union and single market formally it could work as the UK could regain control of immigration and have scope for FTAs on a more limited basis.

So control isn't been taken back? In fact control is being lost with no seat at the table. Honestly what is left? Why doesn't the UK just stay in the EU but pull a Sinn Féin and refuse to attend it's institutions. Same basic outcome, cheaper and if the UK ever comes to its senses much easier to undo?

Beechwoodspark

Water John wrote: »

No way should the Irish side engage in any tit for tat replying to Foster. She's UK's problem and wouldn't dignify the nonsense they are spouting with a reply.

Dead right.

ROI graciously assented to a solution to the Brexiteers border puzzle.

The UK then completely messed around both the EU and ROI.

Absolutely ridiculous and farcical behaviour by May and her sometime allies in the dup.

The deal is there to be signed off on if the UK can get its act together -and I very much doubt that. Let them at it.

FrancieBrady

I have no doubt that Dublin may have asked that 'No Party' (as opposed to the 'No' Party ) got to see the document. Which makes sense. The DUP no more deserved to see than SF.
Can you imagine the moaning if Leo was liasing with SF on it!

tomwaterford

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have no doubt that Dublin may have asked that 'No Party' (as opposed to the 'No' Party ) got to see the document. Which makes sense. The DUP no more deserved to see than SF.
Can you imagine the moaning if Leo was liasing with SF on it!

Tbf the dup are part of a coalition....begs the question of what's the point....if they are continuesly being excluded through?

Enzokk

solodeogloria wrote: »

It's also interesting that the appetite amongst the EU27 is waning on taking away Euro derivatives clearing from London with a number of regulators saying they feel hosting central counterparties for OTC derivatives is too risky in their member states.

I find this quote interesting in your link about the clearing houses.

Then, there are the pragmatists. In a speech in Frankfurt on Wednesday, Andreas Dombret, member of the executive board of the Bundesbank, set out a path to “obviate the need for a large-scale relocation of clearing business, at least from an economic standpoint.” The alternative would rely on “intensive cooperation between U.K. and EU supervisory authorities,” and would also have to include “far-reaching powers of information and intervention” for EU supervision relating to U.K. CCPs, he said.

Would you accept that the EU supervising authorities have far reaching powers of UK clearing houses if it is kept in the UK?

steddyeddy

pc7 wrote: »

Genuine question, is Arlene touched? To come with her latest statement about the Irish government is bonkers. It can’t possibly be true (can it?) stating it just makes her like some crazy cat lady in a vox pop.

Some members of the DUP believe that Earth is 5000 thousand years old. They are not to be taken seriously.

FrancieBrady

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf the dup are part of a coalition....begs the question of what's the point....if they are continuesly being excluded through?

Then that was Theresa's call.
A request from Dublin that no party see it was a fair enough call.

Ewan Hoosarmi

I've just watcher that Foster interview on the news. My gut feeling is that she was told, by the British team, that the Irish team told them to keep the text of the agreement from her. Judging by her body language and her choice of words, she no more believes that than she believes in Santa Claus.

So, does she now feel angry about being lied to by the British? Or would she forgive them any wrongdoing? Interesting times.

Beechwoodspark

steddyeddy wrote: »

Some members of the DUP believe that Earth is 5000 thousand years old. They are not to be taken seriously.

Judging by her cash for ash alleged behaviour she certainly isn't "all there" in the head.

Itssoeasy

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf the dup are part of a coalition....begs the question of what's the point....if they are continuesly being excluded through?

The DUP aren't in coalition tom. They are in a supply and confidence agreement. The lib dems and the conservstives was a coalition government this deal the DUP have isn't a coalition.

swampgas

Water John wrote: »

funny watching Tommy Gorman interview her, and all his body language and voice says, 'I don't believe you', when she says the Irish Govn't insisted that the UK did not show the DUP, the wording.

If the UK team kept it from the DUP, then tried to cover for themselves by hinting that it was because Ireland was nervous about it ... well that's the kind of lie that grows legs and runs away from you. Even if Ireland was nervous about sharing it with the DUP, the British should never have let the DUP know that.

They really are amateurs. And these are supposed to be the people who will negotiate wonderful new trade deals? The mind boggles.

steddyeddy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The DUP aren't in coalition tom. They are in a supply and confidence agreement. The lib dems and the conservstives was a coalition government this deal the DUP have isn't a coalition.

But they still decide the fate of the UK. I don't remember the Lib Dems having this much power.

tomwaterford

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The DUP aren't in coalition tom. They are in a supply and confidence agreement. The lib dems and the conservstives was a coalition government this deal the DUP have isn't a coalition.

Oh....I was of opioions it was :pac:



@FrancieBrady: noone is going to sign off until they see something......however I really hope all this collapses Westminster

steddyeddy

swampgas wrote: »

If the UK team kept it from the DUP, then tried to cover for themselves by hinting that it was because Ireland was nervous about it ... well that's the kind of lie that grows legs and runs away from you. Even if Ireland was nervous about sharing it with the DUP, the British should never have let the DUP know that.

They really are amateurs. And these are supposed to be the people who will negotiate wonderful new trade deals? The mind boggles.

Let's say it was true. Then as you say, the UK government told that to the DUP..... I mean that's all levels of stupidity. I'm looking forward to hearing the UK's response to this.

Phonehead

Enzokk wrote: »

I find this quote interesting in your link about the clearing houses.




Would you accept that the EU supervising authorities have far reaching powers of UK clearing houses if it is kept in the UK?

Exactly, that's pretty much what I don't understand about Brexit supporters using articles like this to support their view that they hold all the cards, you only hold the cards if you cede power to the EU. Once again we are back to being beholden to the EU authorities but not involved in the decision making, surely this is a huge loss from where you currently are.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

But they still decide the fate of the UK. I don't remember the Lib Dems having this much power.

Yeh, but are we not seeing one of the most pathetic and desparate clings to power we have ever seen?

Most PM's would have thrown the towel in by now and one so fabulously embarrassed as she was yesterday would have be gone before supper last night.