Brexit discussion thread III

lawred2

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf the dup are part of a coalition....begs the question of what's the point....if they are continuesly being excluded through?

They are not in a coalition. It is confidence and supply arrangement. There are no DUP positions in government.

Enzokk

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf the dup are part of a coalition....begs the question of what's the point....if they are continuesly being excluded through?

I can be corrected but they are not part of a coalition. They have a supply and confidence agreement only. They do not get to tell the Conservatives how to run the country, although that seems to be the way it is right now. They got paid their silver and they need to uphold their end of the contract.

Conservatives agree pact with DUP to support May government

I find it interesting that the DUP have agreed to support the Conservatives in any votes on exiting the EU,

Other key points of the agreement include:
The DUP will support the Tories on all Brexit and security legislation

What if the vote is for NI to have a special deal? Does that not mean they have to support it?

4068ac1elhodqr

I smell a 'public referendum' on the 'shape of the future border' for the North, may as well get the politicians out for a day's work, megaphones, doorstepping, flyposting etc.

Average Joe may just be concerned with getting their flight out of DUB with as little fuss as possible for the annual week on a sun holiday. Remain was 56% on the last count.

lawred2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh, but are we not seeing one of the most pathetic and desparate clings to power we have ever seen?

Most PM's would have thrown the towel in by now and one so fabulously embarrassed as she was yesterday would have be gone before supper last night.

Theresa May is amoral. An anti Brexit campaigner leading the Brexit charge. She wants power above all.

steddyeddy

Enzokk wrote: »

I can be corrected but they are not part of a coalition. They have a supply and confidence agreement only. They do not get to tell the Conservatives how to run the country, although that seems to be the way it is right now. They got paid their silver and they need to uphold their end of the contract.

Conservatives agree pact with DUP to support May government

I find it interesting that the DUP have agreed to support the Conservatives in any votes on exiting the EU,



What if the vote is for NI to have a special deal? Does that not mean they have to support it?

Well what they have done will have a bigger economic consequence than any budget decision they could have made. The DUP pulling the plug on the Brexit deal seen the pound take a further tumble.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/5060443/pound-dollar-exchange-rate-sterling-falls-theresa-may-jean-claude-juncker-brexit-deal/

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh, but are we not seeing one of the most pathetic and desparate clings to power we have ever seen?

Most PM's would have thrown the towel in by now and one so fabulously embarrassed as she was yesterday would have be gone before supper last night.

We are, but it's funny to watch. I used to feel sorry for May, that is until she got into a deal with the DUP which ruins the required rigorous impartiality required by the Good Friday agreement.

Speaking of which, I think there's a fair point to be made the the DUP-Tory deal is breaking the GFA. She's letting the DUP decide on the future of the North without taking into account the views communities other than loyalists living there.

Bar_Prop

Dario Melted Sunlamp wrote: »

I smell a 'public referendum' on the 'shape of the future border' for the North, may as well get the politicians out for a day's work, megaphones, doorstepping, flyposting etc.

Average Joe may just be concerned with getting their flight out of DUB with as little fuss as possible for the annual week on a sun holiday. Remain was 56% on the last count.

Can't see there being a referendum on any topic in any part of the UK for a generation at the very least.

Tiger20

Imagine, in talks about your future after a hard won struggle for independence, you face a bitter compromise that proposes to separate 1/4 of your country from the rest and that will never satisfy the hardliners at home. Is this the U.K. 2017 or Ireland 1921! If seems history does repeat itself, and it has a large dose of irony about it

Un1corn

The Irish government should probably just pretend to be unhappy even if they get the deal they want. The DUP will instinctively reject anything that the Irish government likes. Honestly, for the sake of the country somebody should cop on and re run the referendum with a clearer more precise question. "Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union? " is simply not precise enough and it is a hugely complex issue.

Nobody has really thought about the impact and now the collective **** is hitting the fan the very union is in grave danger. As an Irish man it's hard not to find the whole thing entertaining, but lets not kid ourselves. The United Kingdom is our best friend and trading partner and we don't want them to collapse.

4068ac1elhodqr

Bar_Prop wrote: »

Can't see there being a referendum on any topic in any part of the UK for a generation at the very least.

When Scotland sees it's post-brexit export spreadsheet for whisky, sheep or whatever they send out, they'll want another one, and certainly won't wait a generation.

The current stance (hard border) from the owners of 28% FPVotes, is probably slightly offensive to the majority of the North's people, who don't even want a Brexit.

J Mysterio

breatheme wrote: »

The deadlines are enshrined in Article 50. The UK has triggered said article with no plan or positions and only started half-baking them way into after the negotiating period started.

steddyeddy

Scotland should do the sensible thing and get away from the UK. Currently a government of little Englanders backed up by a loyalist party are making the decisions for the whole UK. This can't go on.

Bar_Prop

Dario Melted Sunlamp wrote: »

Bar_Prop wrote: »

Can't see there being a referendum on any topic in any part of the UK for a generation at the very least.

When Scotland sees it's post-brexit export spreadsheet for whisky, sheep or whatever they send out, they'll want another one, and certainly won't wait a generation.

The current stance (hard border) from the owners of 28% FPVotes, is probably slightly offensive to the majority of the North's people, who don't even want a Brexit.

I dare say you're right in both cases but Scotland has to wait until 2021 before they can ask again, and in NI?  "Secretary of State's discretion". I won't be holding my breath.

Beechwoodspark

It was farcical yesterday seeing Scotland, then the bould mayor of London, then Wales all clamouring to try get the same deal as was being offered to NI.

My Patience is wearing thin with this level of idiocy. Brexit Britain =long term national decline.

Odhinn

Dario Melted Sunlamp wrote: »

That holds strong potential for an early bet for 2018, 5 is a bit low for JC to be the saviour, will wait for live election event and double digit returns.



(By the way, I also cleaned up on Trump and Brexit also :pac:).

I'm amazed and somewhat appalled at the odds given rees mogg to take over from may. I would have thought him more a fringe figure.

FrancieBrady

Bar_Prop wrote: »

I dare say you're right in both cases but Scotland has to wait until 2021 before they can ask again, and in NI?  "Secretary of State's discretion". I won't be holding my breath.

After yesterday the Secretary might be easily persuaded.

4068ac1elhodqr

Odhinn wrote: »

I'm amazed and somewhat appalled at the odds given rees mogg to take over from may. I would have thought him more a fringe figure.

Most people think he's a 'cartoon sketch figure': of a typified conservative by a sketch artist from the 1950's, and not actually a living entity.

That of the 'where's wally' comic character.

The Rape of Lucretia

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good evening!
Davis said that the regulatory alignment was intended to be for the whole of the UK.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

In what way can it be argued that becoming an regulatory dependency of the EU improves the current UK situation ?

Surely he is dissembling, and that was not the intention yesterday morning. They only meant to make NI such a dependency and cleave it away from the part of the UK that he sees matters - GB. NI is a troublesome 'Irish Problem' that is getting in the way of the real UK getting on with its Brexit plans.

And just a hypothetical curio, if anyone knows the answer - does Westminster have the power to jettison NI from the UK ?

Odhinn

Dario Melted Sunlamp wrote: »

Most people think he's a 'cartoon sketch figure': of a typified conservative by a sketch artist from the 1950's, and not actually a living entity.

That of the 'where's wally' comic character.

That's it. A Thatcher-era spitting image character. I've heard him on the radio numerous times, and the prospect of him in charge of a nation anywhere near us is worrisome. He's like Tebbit without the charm.

Beechwoodspark

Dario Melted Sunlamp wrote: »

Most people think he's a 'cartoon sketch figure': of a typified conservative by a sketch artist from the 1950's, and not actually a living entity.

That of the 'where's wally' comic character.

He's a stiff upper lip aristocrat type that the great British public wet themselves over every so often.

Bulldog spirit yadda yadda.

He's also extremely rich.

Bar_Prop

FrancieBrady wrote: »

After yesterday the Secretary might be easily persuaded.

The last two major referenda in the UK have resulted in this mess and a ship (not) being called Boaty McBoat Face.

devnull

Being reported by David Blevins on Sky News that a Government spokesperson has contacted him and dismissed the suggestion by the DUP that the Government played a role in holding back documents from them.

The spokesperson said that the Irish government had no role between EU and British Government so could not have any involvement about which documents were released to the DUP.

unit 1

This whole brexit thing is going on far too long. Remember Cameron was supposed to trigger article 50 "within days" if they voted to leave.

The eu and ourselves should calmly stand back and let the clock run down, without any further negotiations with the uk. Whether we like it or not the uk, and that includes ni voted to leave.
The only deal accecptable is a rethink of the referendum, which can come about when the uk look over the precipice.
If they do not do so within the timeframe then the negotiations can start on trade deals, with financial assistance from the eu to us to eleviate any problems (given our size not a problem)
If a rethink is supportive of staying in then article 50 can be ignored, (personally I would be in favour as long as sterling goes and is replaced by the euro) if assurances are given regarding good behaviour.
If they still want out then let them, the eu and ourselves will survive, even with a hard border.
Contrary to what many people say ni is a different country, ie the uk. If their own self determination wants them to leave them the consequences lie with them. Any consequneces for us will given our size be offset by assistance from europe.
For far too long the uk has been a truculent member with ideas above its station and the root cause of our troubles letting them keep sterling, and hence the exit door available was a mistake. Given the size and diversity of europe I doubt very much if they would be missed.

lawred2

devnull wrote: »

Being reported by David Blevins on Sky News that a Government spokesperson has contacted him and dismissed the suggestion by the DUP that the Government played a role in holding back documents from them.

The spokesperson said that the Irish government had no role between EU and British Government so could not have any involvement about which documents were released to the DUP.

lol

For the first time in history, the DUP tactic of lies and bluster is being laid bare for all to see.

Beechwoodspark

devnull wrote: »

Being reported by David Blevins on Sky News that a Government spokesperson has contacted him and dismissed the suggestion by the DUP that the Government played a role in holding back documents from them.

The spokesperson said that the Irish government had no role between EU and British Government so could not have any involvement about which documents were released to the DUP.

If true -what a cack handed move by Arlene.

I wonder which genius in the DUP came up with this little conspiracy theory that was exposed as BS within a matter of minutes. Clowns!!

The Rape of Lucretia

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its clear that no matter what the Irish did the DUP was never going to agree to this and it lies totally at the feet of May to have made it sound like she could make a deal when she hadn't got it signed off by the cabinet.

Maybe the Irish leak did everyone concerned a service by blowing it out of the water before it went further, sourced relations even further, and ended up wasting even more time as the parties tried to back out of this blind alley.
Arleen owes the Irish team a bank thanks methinks.

For Forks Sake

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It was farcical yesterday seeing Scotland, then the bould mayor of London, then Wales all clamouring to try get the same deal as was being offered to NI.

My Patience is wearing thin with this level of idiocy. Brexit Britain =long term national decline.

Whatever about the Scots and London (and I think Khan was being somewhat tongue in cheek), the Brexit-supporting Welsh can do one.

steddyeddy

devnull wrote: »

Being reported by David Blevins on Sky News that a Government spokesperson has contacted him and dismissed the suggestion by the DUP that the Government played a role in holding back documents from them.

The spokesperson said that the Irish government had no role between EU and British Government so could not have any involvement about which documents were released to the DUP.

Jesus that's damning and embarrassing. It doesn't matter to the DUP though. They'll only rationalise it that they're the victims in all this and it's Dublin bullying the UK.

4068ac1elhodqr

Only a matter of time before Blair comes out of the woodwork, just to crank things up a bit and fill the comment sections on the Dailymail's website.

The Rape of Lucretia

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Vaguely. Squirelly little man?

Thats the one. Lovely hair. Lovely.