Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

pjohnson

Giovinazzi is guaranteed to replace Leclerc imo.

Could see Kimi moving to the other Sauber if he want's to stay in F1. Or does Ericsson bring a lot of money with him?

vectra

chicorytip wrote: »

The reasons why he needs to be replaced were blatantly evident yesterday. Lack of speed overall and lack of energy in the latter stages of races. He was unable to open up more than a one second lead over Hamilton in the earlier stages and should have quickly overtaken Bottas in the latter stages and then driven on to victory. He is no longer capable of winning races as opposed to finishing second or third. Even Bottas chips in with the odd victory as do the Red Bull duo. If Seb has an off day his colleague needs to be of comparable standard to maximise the competitiveness of the team. In fairness to Raikkonen not many drivers on the grid seem to have this level of capability. Alonso, certainly, but he's leaving. Verstappen, certainly. Ricciardo, possibly. Hamilton, obviously. Leclerc would be a mistake. He's too inexperienced. Grosjean would be the best available choice.

Just a second.
You are saying the Merc had to pace to keep withing a second of Kimi
Kimi couldn't pass Bottas
You seemed to forget that Bottas struggled big time to pass a much slower Red Bull.
How did that happen?

GarIT

pjohnson wrote: »

Giovinazzi is guaranteed to replace Leclerc imo.

Could see Kimi moving to the other Sauber if he want's to stay in F1. Or does Ericsson bring a lot of money with him?

Don't think he brings much money directly but he has invested 2m in the company that owns sauber and his dad is friends with the other owners.

flexcon

vectra wrote: »

Just a second.
You are saying the Merc had to pace to keep withing a second of Kimi
Kimi couldn't pass Bottas
You seemed to forget that Bottas struggled big time to pass a much slower Red Bull.
How did that happen?

Looking forward to the answer of this also.

You must also look at what Kimi was told to do after pitting. These tyres do not like to be pushed like crazy for the first 2 laps. They need that thermal heat right through before you can pound lap after lap from them. In Kimi case, he was told to go flat out since Hamilton wasn't pitting and was in fact slightly faster, therefore Hamilton would come out in front.

The weird thing though, is that there doesn't seem to have been another call from ferrari to Kimi after 4 laps to say " Ok cool off now, come down by 5% and let those types breath, you have a 4 second gap". Instead looking at the lap times he kept pushing very very hard right up against Bottas. Looking at the lap times, I don't think being stuck behind Bottas killed the tyres - It looks like those first 3 laps just caused blistering as the surface got to hot, and the core was still like jelly. Once he achieved this undesirable scenario, he was a goner.

I still ponder though if he had come off the gas a few laps previous to have a gap of maybe 2 seconds and slowly get on the tail of Bottas, his tyres may have hung on longer.Who knows.

Harika

McLaren re-hires Pat Fry, who worked before then with them and then Manor.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-rehires-fry-to-bolster-technical-team/3170988/?nrt=54

The James Key saga is also ongoing with McLaren not willing to pay enough for him

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138461/mclaren-not-interested-in-red-bull-key-terms

Interesting bit from before Landos announcement, Marko said that Lando had to be signed by McLaren as race driver for 2019 by end of September, else he would have been free agent, free to join whatever team he wants.

eviltimeban

Jeez, what do McLaren have to do to get it right? Feel sorry for Alonso but at least he was loyal to the team. Shame is rep in the paddock has been tarnished as someone difficult to work with; I'm sure all top drivers are / were difficult a some stage. Such massive pressure, ego, money, expectations, etc.

Hope Lando does well. McLaren isn't the best place for a rookie I fear.

skipper_G

Harika wrote: »

McLaren re-hires Pat Fry, who worked before then with them and then Manor.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-rehires-fry-to-bolster-technical-team/3170988/?nrt=54

The James Key saga is also ongoing with McLaren not willing to pay enough for him

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138461/mclaren-not-interested-in-red-bull-key-terms

Interesting bit from before Landos announcement, Marko said that Lando had to be signed by McLaren as race driver for 2019 by end of September, else he would have been free agent, free to join whatever team he wants.

They had to sign somebody to lead the work on the 2019 car with a few people having already been shown the door this season and the options are very limited when you're looking for a free agent with the required expertise. I wouldn't expect much for next year's car at this rate.

Harika

skipper_G wrote: »

They had to sign somebody to lead the work on the 2019 car with a few people having already been shown the door this season and the options are very limited when you're looking for a free agent with the required expertise. I wouldn't expect much for next year's car at this rate.

Next year will be another transition year. Sainz is not known to be a troublemaker within the team, (Yeah I know the Verstappen feud) and Norris will be happy to be in F1. Key will working for them, if no solution is found, in 2019 only.

skipper_G

Harika wrote: »

Next year will be another transition year. Sainz is not known to be a troublemaker within the team, (Yeah I know the Verstappen feud) and Norris will be happy to be in F1. Key will working for them, if no solution is found, in 2019 only.

Yeah I think the driver lineup is in their favour, the expectations are going to be more in line with what the team has delivered for the last few seasons. I don’t think either of them will be going in looking for race wins anytime soon. Get Key in and then he will have time to make changes and it will be building for the 2020 season

chicorytip

vectra wrote:

Just a second. You are saying the Merc had to pace to keep withing a second of Kimi Kimi couldn't pass Bottas You seemed to forget that Bottas struggled big time to pass a much slower Red Bull. How did that happen?

Your comments only serve to bolster my argument. It was Kimi who lacked the pace and failed to extract the maximum performance from his car. The Mercs were racing flat out. If Vettel had ended up leading after the first lap he would have won by half a mile.

chicorytip

flexcon wrote:

The weird thing though, is that there doesn't seem to have been another call from ferrari to Kimi after 4 laps to say " Ok cool off now, come down by 5% and let those types breath, you have a 4 second gap". Instead looking at the lap times he kept pushing very very hard right up against Bottas. Looking at the lap times, I don't think being stuck behind Bottas killed the tyres - It looks like those first 3 laps just caused blistering as the surface got to hot, and the core was still like jelly. Once he achieved this undesirable scenario, he was a goner.

flexcon wrote:

I still ponder though if he had come off the gas a few laps previous to have a gap of maybe 2 seconds and slowly get on the tail of Bottas, his tyres may have hung on longer.Who knows.

He's around long enough to realise that and has the relevant information displayed on the dash in front of him. As far as I know he did not express any concerns over the radio. He was clearly fired up for the race and was going all out for victory but it was not failing tyres that ultimately cost him victory but rather his own lack of staying power.

vectra

chicorytip wrote: »

Your comments only serve to bolster my argument. It was Kimi who lacked the pace and failed to extract the maximum performance from his car. The Mercs were racing flat out. If Vettel had ended up leading after the first lap he would have won by half a mile.

Kimi is ahead of Bottas in the standings
Kimi has had 3 retirements this season to Bottas 1
Yet he is still ahead.

How can you say my comment only bolsters what you said??
Kimi was told to push when Hamilton pitted, which he did and built up almost a 6 second gap to Hamilton who was on fresher tyres.
Bottas acting like a road block destroyed Kimis lead and his tyres as a result.

What else would you expect Kimi to do?

If Bottas was as good as you say then how come he couldnt pass Max when Kimi in fact did pass Hamilton?

Also
You have absolutely zero evidence that Vettel would build up a half a lap had he been in front, the way he is performing at the moment there is a good chance he would have crashed ( again )

Inviere

I don't think Kimi could have done much differently than what he did. I think they stopped him too early, pushed him too hard on pit release, and put him straight behind Bottas on pit release too.

All things being equal, Kimi would have blown both Mercs away in this race...Ferrari blew it this weekend, not Kimi.

vectra

Inviere wrote: »

I don't think Kimi could have done much differently than what he did. I think they stopped him too early, pushed him too hard on pit release, and put him straight behind Bottas on pit release too.

All things being equal, Kimi would have blown both Mercs away in this race...Ferrari blew it this weekend, not Kimi.

Thank god you agree with me for once :pac::pac::pac:

Inviere

vectra wrote: »

Thank god you agree with me for once :pac::pac::pac:

What can I say, I call it as I see it Kimi didn't fail Ferrari at Monza, Ferrari failed him. I think the Ferrari car is a step ahead of Merc still, and I think Lewis is only leading because he's capitalising (and is an elite driver), while Ferrari are throwing points away.

Inviere

^^ That said, I still see Seb lifting the WDC this year. I know 30 points behind isn't ideal for him, but that can be zapped by a reliability issue or somesuch. Lewis still can't afford 2nd places for the remaining races yet

vectra

Inviere wrote: »

^^ That said, I still see Seb lifting the WDC this year. I know 30 points behind isn't ideal for him, but that can be zapped by a reliability issue or somesuch. Lewis still can't afford 2nd places for the remaining races yet

I dearly would love to see Seb taking the wdc number 5 before Lewis.

But yes,
30 points is not ideal, but if Ferrari sit down and clam Seb down, get their act together, It is only a matter of 3 races with a Ferrari 1/2 with Lewis 3rd to wipe that out..

muckwarrior

Vettel is quick but Hamilton is the better racer. Vettel has always been good when he was in front and able to put in quick laps unhindered, but he really isn't great when it comes to fighting for a place. Certainly not on Hamilton or Alonso's level anyway.

chicorytip

vectra wrote:

Kimi is ahead of Bottas in the standings Kimi has had 3 retirements this season to Bottas 1 Yet he is still ahead.

Yes, by a few points, but the most telling figures are sixty two (the number of points he trails Vettel by) and zero (the number of races he has won over the past five seasons).

vectra

chicorytip wrote: »

Yes, by a few points, but the most telling figures are sixty two (the number of points he trails Vettel by) and zero (the number of races he has won over the past five seasons).

And as a matter of interest
How many times did Kimi have to hand the win to Vettel to increase his points?
How many DNF's did Vettel have this season?

Who is quite obviously the number one driver that gets preference.

Inviere

chicorytip wrote: »

Yes, by a few points, but the most telling figures are sixty two (the number of points he trails Vettel by) and zero (the number of races he has won over the past five seasons).

I'd have to agree with Vectra here (again!), it's hard to win races when you're #2. Ask Bottas! Kimi has had issues in Quali of late (up until Monza anyway)...that he seems to have ironed out. The guy has the speed and consistency. His points aren't indicative of the whole picture

ayux4rj6zql2ph

The 2 main races that Kimi could have won were Monaco 2017 & Italy 2018, both victories taken away from him by Ferrari strategy.

Monaco to give the win to Vettel & Monza they were dummied.

vectra

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

The 2 main races that Kimi could have won were Monaco 2017 & Italy 2018, both victories taken away from him by Ferrari strategy.

Monaco to give the win to Vettel & Monza they were dummied.

Don't forget spa 2018 where again the team let him down.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

vectra wrote: »

Don't forget spa 2018 where again the team let him down.

I'd love to know where he would have qualified.

Jordan 199

vectra wrote: »

I dearly would love to see Lewis taking the wdc number 5 before Seb.

I agree


Great to see you're a Lewis fan.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Jordan 199 wrote: »

I agree


Great to see you're a Lewis fan.

Boo boo boooo

g1983d

I don't get the argument that Kimi has a lack of staying power, if the car/tyres were able for it Kimi would've done it.
I think saying Kimi is not able for it because of age is like when everyone was say Eddie Irvine's party lifestyle was making him unfit, the same year he did the drivers fitness test and was the fittest of the lot.

Have people forgotten quali the day before where had the fastest F1 lap of all time?
I know he had the benefit of a tow but he still had to do it

pjohnson

Hasn't Kimi also made the podium for every race he finished this year bar 1 2 (forgot he got 4th only in Monaco)?

vectra

Jordan 199 wrote: »

I agree


Great to see you're a Kimi fan.

Always

rock22

chicorytip wrote: »

Your comments only serve to bolster my argument. It was Kimi who lacked the pace and failed to extract the maximum performance from his car. The Mercs were racing flat out. If Vettel had ended up leading after the first lap he would have won by half a mile.

Interesting. Are Ferrari not focussed on the championship? Vettel is their only realistic chance of winning the drivers championship. Yet it appears they went along with an arrangement to give Kimi the benefit of the tow in qualification.
Kimi starts on Pole, blocks Vettel at the first turn, next backs him up into Hamilton and then Vettel touches Hamilton ( admittedly more Vittel's fault than Hamilton's). But , as you say, If Vettel had been leaving after the first lap he would have won the race.


Contrast this with Mercedes being happy to compromise Bottas's race to aid Hamilton.

With everything in their favour, Ferrari threw away the chance of victory at Monza. And almost certainly the drivers championship.

Or am I reading this all wrong