How to further fieldsports/hunting **[Split Thread]**

Grizzly 45

Don't worry...The second one is utter shte!All SFX and no storyline worth mentioning.
TBH, I still see hunting as going to be part of the future in some shape or form, even the Japanese tried scientific methods of boar and deer management and failed miserably.Hence the uptake and encouragement of hunters there.

Countries like Holland and Germany that have ultra land usage, still have a sustainable wild game population, and even the wild game is adaptable to mankind.I witness the way wild boar are moving into German city suburbs and making a hames of veg and fruit plots.

Holland with its burgeoning poupulation of Canada geese,is now rethinking slowly its wildfowl hunting ban,as again the green ways of pouplation control arent working either.
So I wouldn't be too bleak about it either.

useurowname

I think things have to change in Ireland for hunting to be sustainable. Having visited New Zealand a country absolutely enthralled with hunting and the outdoor lifestyle I am amazed that Ireland hasn't moved with the times on bag limits and more sensible seasons which reflect the modern pressures on species .These limits exist on game fishing so why not hunting? Are we still wedded to Edwardian notions of showing off big bags??

Cass

blackpearl wrote: »

What happened to starting of with the ould second hand single barrell not to dear ,if you really want to get into the sport it will not take a load of money.

Was the norm 40+ years ago (showing your age now ), but these days not so much to at all.

The other thing is how they are treated in dealers. I don't mean to vilify or apportion blame but i have seen first hand young lads in dealers being told to go for this gun or that gun and how it's great value for money. The price of the gun is not too dear the gun itself is not suitable. Young lads being pushed into €900, €1,100, €1,500 guns. Also they seem to have new guns pushed on them instead of second hand which i'd have thought dealers would bee happy to get rid off. A second Baikal, Yildiz, Lanber are all top notch starter guns and even regular guns.

However even a gun at say €300, a gun safe at €100 (second hand), €80 license, €50 competence course, and say €50 for cartridges and few other bits and bobs. Thats €580. Not a lot to some, but a shed load to others.

I think this is where the "maturity" level comes into it. Not to belittle young lads, but if they have the choice of getting into a sport that they may know nothing about or have any experience with and may be a passing phase this price while reasonable enough might put them off as they think of other, not so long term, uses for the money.

They need to look at it like an investment as opposed to a big lump sum payment.

useurowname wrote: »

Are we still wedded to Edwardian notions of showing off big bags??

We are stuck in our ways to some degree but i'm always weary of looking to another country, or two, for a platform from which to launch our own changes.

We have enough experience and history to actually sit down and hash out a great new system including legal things like seasons, ages for guns, etc. However the Government are no more interested in it than the man on the moon, and we [the various shooting bodies] cannot agree on the color of sh*t long enough for anything to get done.

Not being pessimistic and i'd love to see an overhaul done, but our first and biggest obstacle is the legal side of things and this means getting the various Government departments on board and actively working with us to get things done.

grassroot1

useurowname wrote: »

I think things have to change in Ireland for hunting to be sustainable. Having visited New Zealand a country absolutely enthralled with hunting and the outdoor lifestyle I am amazed that Ireland hasn't moved with the times on bag limits and more sensible seasons which reflect the modern pressures on species .These limits exist on game fishing so why not hunting? Are we still wedded to Edwardian notions of showing off big bags??

Which seasons and bag limits do you think need changing?

useurowname

grassroot1 wrote: »

Which seasons and bag limits do you think need changing?[/quote

Basically the entire thing needs to be looked at and appropriate limits put on the bag limit of all wild game species . Also I believe the season is too long for duck and snipe in particular. You look at areas like lough lee and the pressure that's on it for five months from shooting. And don't get me started about commercial woodcock shoots. We are lucky in Ireland to have the abundance and variety of game, but it is a finite resource and it is and will dwindle, it's not the fault of hunting but as hunters we appreciate game species more than anyone and will miss it the most when it's gone. Therefore we should do our bit to ensure it is maintained. The tourist hunters will move on to the next destination, I see the toffs on the glossies across the water spouting about doves in Argentina and neither themselves nor the "opening morning boys" here will be too bothered when it's gone.

123shooter

useurowname wrote: »

grassroot1 wrote: »

Which seasons and bag limits do you think need changing?[/quote

Basically the entire thing needs to be looked at and appropriate limits put on the bag limit of all wild game species . Also I believe the season is too long for duck and snipe in particular. You look at areas like lough lee and the pressure that's on it for five months from shooting. And don't get me started about commercial woodcock shoots. We are lucky in Ireland to have the abundance and variety of game, but it is a finite resource and it is and will dwindle, it's not the fault of hunting but as hunters we appreciate game species more than anyone and will miss it the most when it's gone. Therefore we should do our bit to ensure it is maintained. The tourist hunters will move on to the next destination, I see the toffs on the glossies across the water spouting about doves in Argentina and neither themselves nor the "opening morning boys" here will be too bothered when it's gone.

Perhaps the problem here is that there is little rearing of game birds for shoots as in the UK.

Being a Tan (and an old one:)) I know that besides sporting businesses which rear birds of all kinds there a lot of shooting syndicates that do same and they both pay very well to rent land for this purpose.

All of this encourages people to take up shooting on a season or just a day basis.

Perhaps you should get away from the club clan way of doing things here and go the way that works in the UK.

useurowname

123shooter wrote: »

useurowname wrote: »

Perhaps the problem here is that there is little rearing of game birds for shoots as in the UK.

Being a Tan (and an old one:)) I know that besides sporting businesses which rear birds of all kinds there a lot of shooting syndicates that do same and they both pay very well to rent land for this purpose.

All of this encourages people to take up shooting on a season or just a day basis.

Perhaps you should get away from the club clan way of doing things here and go the way that works in the UK.

All very well, syndicates are great(if you've time and money to get in) and I've no truck with commercial duck or game shoots. The main difference between hunting here and in the uk is that here we have enjoyed an informality that generally is not prevalent in the uk. That informality though means that there is a large degree of responsibility on us to self regulate and while it was fine at one time to shoot a dozen snipe in a day we are now totally reliant on wintering birds which don't arrive until after sept. My point is that many if our game seasons are now outdated. They date back to when the landlord had the shooting rights and the tenant darent look sideways at a pheasant. In the case of the UK perhaps BASC would be an organisation I would have most interest in.

123shooter

useurowname wrote: »

123shooter wrote: »

All very well, syndicates are great(if you've time and money to get in) and I've no truck with commercial duck or game shoots. The main difference between hunting here and in the uk is that here we have enjoyed an informality that generally is not prevalent in the uk. That informality though means that there is a large degree of responsibility on us to self regulate and while it was fine at one time to shoot a dozen snipe in a day we are now totally reliant on wintering birds which don't arrive until after sept. My point is that many if our game seasons are now outdated. They date back to when the landlord had the shooting rights and the tenant darent look sideways at a pheasant. In the case of the UK perhaps BASC would be an organisation I would have most interest in.

Admittedly we didn't have a famine but until WW1 we had exactly the same kind of Land owning Lord and peasant system.

Somebody owns the land in the UK. If they can make a few bob by renting it out to a shooting syndicate they will.

So basically that could be your answer and I never ever joined the BASC or any other club either.

When aged 24 I used to pay to go to organised clay shoots every Sunday. I used to pay to go away for weekend or week with Mrs and go shooting on owners land.

To say 'you aint got the money' doesnt make the way it works wrong or not applicable to Ireland. It means you change your lifestyle (no fags and booze) and go shooting or try and improve your income.

When I was 24 there was a lot of things I couldn't afford. In fact my first gun (A pile of crap called a Midland I think) I had a loan for it. Equal to about 3 weeks wages.

Cass

I think bag limits are a poor/bad idea.

Firstly there is no way to enforce them other than clubs trying to enforce it themselves and if its a law/legal thing then they have no authority to enforce it only the NPWS/An Gardaí can. If they cannot currently curtail poaching what chance have they of stopping high bags on multiple game/species? There simply is not the interest of man power to do it.

Secondly what kind of club would it turn into if people were afraid of their own members reporting them if they shot one more than they should? It would cause distrust and fracture the club. Might as well be a club of 50 individuals rather than a single entity.

Thirdly you need something that based on current man power is self policing. A change to seasons would be a better option. Changing the months or shortening/breaking up the season would work. Now i'm only throwing it out there and have not thought through all the consequences, if any, of such a move. Also does it only apply to bird species. What about deer? Shooting stags for two months up to and during the rut. Then for another two more months till Christmas. I understand and agree with the need for herd management, but even when does come into season you still see a lot of top quality stags and bucks being taken. What would happen if a two, five, or per person bag limit was put on these?

Fourthly is breeding programs. How many clubs are actively breeding game species or releasing them? We had two guys in our club that complained about bag limits, but we released hundreds, and some years over a thousand per year, each year. As a small club we knew even with high bag limits and allowing for bird migration to other club grounds and natural predation we'd still have a healthy population. Not a year has gone by where anyone complained about no birds or even low bird count.

Lastly any changes must be done through in depth and exhaustive consultation with all hunting, game and even tentatively linked parties (target clubs with a cross pollination of hunters). These ideas about season changes must be tailored to each species and cannot simply be a moving of all the seasons which may suit some, but not others. IOW shift the problem down the road for some species.

It won't be an easy process but like most laws they are horribly outdated. While we have the 2000, and 2010 amendment act to the Wildlife acts they alter the principal act that much. Only amend and tighten up on some laws and expand on others. That means nothing substantive in the last 41 years. As there is no census of deer, and no regualtion/registration of breeding programs to track numbers it means the laws are based on best guess and not actual numbers.

The one caveat i'd mention is this. Be careful what you wish for/push for. We only just survived an attack on our sport by those that thought their wishes superseded that of everyone else. If you look for "A, B, C" you might also find yourself getting "D, E, F, G, H, I ,J ,K............ " without wanting or asking for it.

Grizzly 45

Basically the entire thing needs to be looked at and appropriate limits put on the bag limit of all wild game species

.
Going by the farcical deer hunting returns, who and how will that be implemented?One way could be and this would "proably" ringfence monies is by buying like in the US the so-called "Duck stamps" to validate your liscense...

Therefore we should do our bit to ensure it is maintained. The tourist hunters will move on to the next destination, I see the toffs on the glossies across the water spouting about doves in Argentina and neither themselves nor the "opening morning boys" here will be too bothered when it's gone.

Abit hard to compare dove hunting in Argentina and woodcock hunting in Ireland.In fact, tourist hunters are what can keep a rural economy going.I have hunted pheasants in Hungary for the last few years ,in a place all of 20 mins West of Rumania and there is SFA in work there bar, hunting and growing maize, by the square mile.The syndicates there employ the left off-farm labourers as beaters, dog men, butchers, pluckers, tractor drivers.And part-time in the roe deer season as well. However,they raise and release over 700,000 birds per season between 4 syndicates in one locality,and supply a supermarket chain with pheasent and deer when the season begins.So not a viable option with woodcock

Thing is, done right with woodcock, you could employ a whole bunch of people locally, but locals do have to lower their sights a bit too in what they can expect in payment as well for a day's good exercise.It has to become a high value,high experiance shoot to justify the high money.IOW a syndicate run right can actually be beneficial to the native game population as well.

123shooter

As Grizzly says ........ 'It works elsewhere'.........so why can't it work here.

I know it isnt a popular thing to say here and you won't like it.........but you get what you pay for.

If there is cash missing from a sport then this is a sure way to raise it........this would support jobs and local rural economies as Grizzly says................and encourage more people to show an interest and take up the sport and the spin off would be giving you a stronger voice.

To say you have no cash or I haven't ever paid before.........well nothing stays the same and if it happens that someone starts renting all your farmers shooting land for their paid business or syndicate shooting and now you have none..........well the farmer has to eat as well and it is his land after all.

Once one farmer starts doing this you will find others quickly follow and the amount of birds will massively increase and the options for vermin control may mushroom for you all on a freebie basis as the businesses/syndicates would only be too pleased to keep their costs down.

useurowname

123shooter wrote: »

As Grizzly says ........ 'It works elsewhere'.........so why can't it work here.

I know it isnt a popular thing to say here and you won't like it.........but you get what you pay for.

If there is cash missing from a sport then this is a sure way to raise it........this would support jobs and local rural economies as Grizzly says................and encourage more people to show an interest and take up the sport and the spin off would be giving you a stronger voice.

To say you have no cash or I haven't ever paid before.........well nothing stays the same and if it happens that someone starts renting all your farmers shooting land for their paid business or syndicate shooting and now you have none..........well the farmer has to eat as well and it is his land after all.

Once one farmer starts doing this you will find others quickly follow and the amount of birds will massively increase and the options for vermin control may mushroom for you all on a freebie basis as the businesses/syndicates would only be too pleased to keep their costs down.

So ye think a more pragmatic solution is to have more syndicates (a club by any other name, effectively) and high value shoots for money bags tourists and this will create jobs and the farmers will make more money and we'll all have better shooting ..ah lads, bless ye, there nice thoughts but ye are reading too much Shooters Times.

123shooter

useurowname wrote: »

So ye think a more pragmatic solution is to have more syndicates (a club by any other name, effectively) and high value shoots for money bags tourists and this will create jobs and the farmers will make more money and we'll all have better shooting ..ah lads, bless ye, there nice thoughts but ye are reading too much Shooters Times.

Weston Park Country Game Fair was in it's infancy then same as others and some which hadn't even been thought of. It was the likes of us going there that made those places take off. We went there because by 'paying' at the newly organised shoots, it encouraged us and others to take up the sport and then go along with our girlfriends/wives to the game fairs and other places.

Point is 'money' means clout/power and the possibility to get things done. In other words investment and jobs.

Syndicates are clubs yes but with real money not 25.00 euro subscription fees. Syndicates may have fees of high 4 figures of each member per year.

Why do you think that system will not work here?

grassroot1

Where to start
Changing the seasons or bringing in bag limits is a prime example of what I like to call LAZY conservation.It is a paper excercise yet we have done nothing to preserve game stocks.
Game and other species are preserved by habitat protection, targeted predator control and where possible the release of extra stock into suitable habitat.
They are not protected by ministerial dictate or changes to the game seasons eg Curlew.
We have seen here arguments regarding bag sizes the reality is that what you harvest is either sustainable or it is not. We are sportsmen and value or quarry and our sport and rely on only taking a sustainable harvest. In short it is about education and personal restraint especially with non put and take species.Who is the better conservationist the guy that shoots 3 birds a day but is involved in releasing 200 birds with a club or the guy who shoots 3 a year but releases none.
Money is not the key to saving shooting rather it is involvement by individuals in the necessary work required to ensure a surplus of game that can be harvested.
A large part of the enjoyment of our sport is in the work that must take place in the off season. This work is vital if gameshooting is to take place and it engenders a respect for our game species.
Please dont ask for changes to seasons or laws we have far too many already.

123shooter

grassroot1 wrote: »

Where to start
Changing the seasons or bringing in bag limits is a prime example of what I like to call LAZY conservation.It is a paper excercise yet we have done nothing to preserve game stocks.
Game and other species are preserved by habitat protection, targeted predator control and where possible the release of extra stock into suitable habitat.
They are not protected by ministerial dictate or changes to the game seasons eg Curlew.
We have seen here arguments regarding bag sizes the reality is that what you harvest is either sustainable or it is not. We are sportsmen and value or quarry and our sport and rely on only taking a sustainable harvest. In short it is about education and personal restraint especially with non put and take species.Who is the better conservationist the guy that shoots 3 birds a day but is involved in releasing 200 birds with a club or the guy who shoots 3 a year but releases none.
Money is not the key to saving shooting rather it is involvement by individuals in the necessary work required to ensure a surplus of game that can be harvested.
A large part of the enjoyment of our sport is in the work that must take place in the off season. This work is vital if gameshooting is to take place and it engenders a respect for our game species.
Please dont ask for changes to seasons or laws we have far too many already.

Well if money and investment is not the way then you are limiting yourself to a few enthusiastic individuals who might be able to do something if they have the time so basically you are finished.

grassroot1

No I dont think you are correct, labour is the scarce commodity not finance.
I am sure you aware of the swing to DIY shoots in the UK.

Grizzly 45

Probably won't work here as us "furriners" have quare ideas above our station.;)

Driven pheasant shoots and syndicates based on that are not going to work well here in Ireland.Especially ones with quaint ideas straight out of Dowtown Abbey on how you should appear dressed in knickerbockers, tweed, and a tie and producing a bespoke SXS rather than any of those "new-fangled killing machines the Yanks use".:P And that will be 5grand per DAY with a bag limit of 50 birds per gun!

5 grand OTOH get me a return flight to Budapest, airport collection,3nights in a B&B, inc 3 squares [and a lot of Palinka:)] Hunting license,4 dog men a tractor& trailer, a very decent field lunch,10 beaters and about 80 birds per man for THREE,and they don't care if you mosey up to the shoot toting a SAIGA12 and a 20 round drum under it.

We are not even the big spenders there. [Being tight Krauts:D]
Two seasons ago 4 Italian guns, one of them a woman, spent a week there and shot over 600 birds PER DAY!And bought their ammo there in Hungary..Which is prohibitively expensive

So guess where the tourist shooters will go?How many birds do we release here in Ireland in all 26 counties in toto?How many birds could we manage to get airborne on the best drive here today?[Best I ever saw when I worked in Dromoland an age ago was 60/80] We would have a long way to go before we could consider ourselves in any sort of league even with the UK, where even over there shoots are supplying restaurants and local markets with an in-season game.Our big problem here is cost in this country,on everything.So it would take at least a decade before a syndicate shoot on par with the EU or UK would even break even here on pheasants etc.

Woodcock ,even Red deer OTOH is our pearl, and if it is managed properly and advertised properly.People will pay big money, very big money, in fact, to hunt it here.But it has to be done right attitude of "shure they will be the same amount here next year" and "Go ahead and flake away in the bog there for yourselves lads, while giving me a bundle." Won't work at all.Done right "the lean and profitless bog" of much of this country, could indeed be making decent money for some localities.

Rural communities need to start thinking collectively outside the box if they want to survive.They cant rely on the local TD and the magnificence of IDA and the Dail to provide "jobs" to keep them and their families in bread.

If there is an asset there,[Woodcock in the bog, fine stags on the hill]Why not manage it to the best possible advantage for the benefit of the community?.Google Hawes in Yorkshire to see what people can do in communities which we have the length and breath of Ireland.

123shooter

grassroot1 wrote: »

No I dont think you are correct, labour is the scarce commodity not finance.
I am sure you aware of the swing to DIY shoots in the UK.

No but that's how we started.

Trouble was regards clays........... not all would go and pick up their wads and cartridges so eventually everybody preferred to pay, kids don't turn up to pull traps or the farmer got fed up of the mess.

Regards rough shooting..........birds stray and get shot so no birds on the day and farmer is unsure who is shooting etc.

Pay..........and birds will be there and farmer has cheque in bank and has no worries on who is there as all is taken care off.

It really is a no brainer.

Can I ask why you think your 'special' system is revolutionary over what is seen/known/proven to work elsewhere.

123shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Probably won't work here as us "furriners" have quare ideas above our station.;)

Driven pheasant shoots and syndicates based on that are not going to work well here in Ireland.Especially ones with quaint ideas straight out of Dowtown Abbey on how you should appear dressed in knickerbockers, tweed, and a tie and producing a bespoke SXS rather than any of those "new-fangled killing machines the Yanks use".:P And that will be 5grand per DAY with a bag limit of 50 birds per gun!

5 grand OTOH get me a return flight to Budapest, airport collection,3nights in a B&B, inc 3 squares [and a lot of Palinka:)] Hunting license,4 dog men a tractor& trailer, a very decent field lunch,10 beaters and about 80 birds per man for THREE,and they don't care if you mosey up to the shoot toting a SAIGA12 and a 20 round drum under it.

.

If everybody thought like that Grizzly no tourist hotspot would have every got off the ground and 'CenterParcs' I think it is wouldn't be spending hundreds of millions in Longford of all places........ Afterall you are gaurenteed cheap grog and sun for 200 euro in Spain.

Then Delphi Lodge for example wouldn't be the success it is........afterall you can get Salmon up in Scottyland or even from Tesco and I believe John West will even catch it and put it in a tin for you.

Grizzly 45

grassroot1 wrote: »

No I dont think you are correct, labour is the scarce commodity not finance.
I am sure you aware of the swing to DIY shoots in the UK.

And that brings us back to the craic element.Even before I could legally hunt, I was dragooned into the beaters as a young fellah, as are most. That could be as much fun as hunting betimes.[like loudly proclaiming the bird to spent cartridge ratio of the guns,etc.]Payment was pub grub and some rounds on the huntmasters and shooters tab.How many people are willing to do that nowadays?Or go and feed deer in the middle of January with a bale of hay in the 4foot deep snow, so you could get a proper headcount??

Or working the dogs.Some people never want to shoot anything and just spend their time training and working their dogs, and enjoy the opportunity to do so on a shoot. So how many people are willing to put in the 365 in running a shoot?DIY or otherwise?Actually shooting anything is one-tenth of a nine tenth process and lifestyle.Why I keep saying in Europe it's a lifestyle choice to be a hunter, not a hobby like here.

TBH IMO those "Sept1st and Nov1st" lads would be much better off served with a commercial shoot.They could pay the same money and get to shoot as many birds as they could afford and want, without all the effort of rearing, vermin control, pen building etc.

grassroot1

123shooter wrote: »

No but that's how we started.

Trouble was regards clays........... not all would go and pick up their wads and cartridges so eventually everybody preferred to pay, kids don't turn up to pull traps or the farmer got fed up of the mess.

Regards rough shooting..........birds stray and get shot so no birds on the day and farmer is unsure who is shooting etc.

Pay..........and birds will be there and farmer has cheque in bank and has no worries on who is there as all is taken care off.

It really is a no brainer.

Can I ask why you think your 'special' system is revolutionary over what is seen/known/proven to work elsewhere.

I dont think my special system is any better that yours but it teaches respect for the quarry and is open to a greater number as it is not dependant on the size of your pocket.
If you want to shoot driven birds and can afford it good luck to you

123shooter

grassroot1 wrote: »

I dont think my special system is any better that yours but it teaches respect for the quarry and is open to a greater number as it is not dependant on the size of your pocket.
If you want to shoot driven birds and can afford it good luck to you

The shoots I refer too aren't all driven shoots. A lot of syndicate shoots are walked up/rough shooting. Obviously these are the cheaper ones but the game is usually reared and maintained in situ.

Grizzly 45

123shooter wrote: »

If everybody thought like that Grizzly no tourist hotspot would have every got off the ground and 'CenterParcs' I think it is wouldn't be spending hundreds of millions in Longford of all places........ Afterall you are gaurenteed cheap grog and sun for 200 euro in Spain.

Apples and Nectarines there.....
Those are places you take the missus and sprogs to for the Hols,[although I wonder aboutCentre parcs Longford.....Sounds like that Chinese city that was going to be built in Athlone awhile back]

Shooting is a different bucket of guts.You are going there to hunt something and are going to be peeved if you don't get something for your money.Thusly telling all your mates what a waste of money it is. Put it like this , how many commercial shoots that have been in expensive World known Irish hotels are now gone?I can name two off the top of my head, and a third one that had an excellent trout and salmon river,[soon to re open in Adare] has no plans of developing it again. Not because of lack of demand, but because the bean counters said "it's a loss maker!Golf courses are cheaper and there are more golfers than shooters." That is the thing somebody told me when I started my own business, is "You have to run it as a business first, your passion second."

Yes start a shoot by all means, but don't go into it with the idea, it's easy, and that you will be in profit by the end of year 0ne, or even decade one.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

IOW a syndicate run right can actually be beneficial to the native game population as well.

There is the problem right there. Run right.

123shooter wrote: »

Syndicates may have fees of high 4 figures of each member per year.

Why do you think that system will not work here?

The two i have encountered have been a complete bunch of so and so's with nothing more on their mind than to sabotage and interfere with others shooting than developing their own.

Cass

I've split off the discussion about furthing the sport into this thread.

All posts regarding how to rejuvenate the sport go into the original thread - HERE.

meathstevie

123shooter wrote: »

Weston Park Country Game Fair was in it's infancy then same as others and some which hadn't even been thought of. It was the likes of us going there that made those places take off. We went there because by 'paying' at the newly organised shoots, it encouraged us and others to take up the sport and then go along with our girlfriends/wives to the game fairs and other places.

Point is 'money' means clout/power and the possibility to get things done. In other words investment and jobs.

Syndicates are clubs yes but with real money not 25.00 euro subscription fees. Syndicates may have fees of high 4 figures of each member per year.

Why do you think that system will not work here?

The UK system is ridiculously expensive for the ordinary lad to enjoy a bit of shooting unless you want to stick to foxes and rabbits. You'll be licking the back of mylords bag all season and consider yourself lucky to be allowed a few shots on a beaters day or something. That's definitely not the way forward. In fact it would be a regressive step.

If I would look anywhere for a system to implement I'd be looking towards the likes of Belgium and France. Clubs get exclusive written permissions ( exclusive in the sense that it's landowner and club members only ) from farmers/landowners and often cover several towns. In return the landowner gets a small reward, often a brace of pheasants or a few rabbits ready for the table although recently money has started to creep in. On a weekend day the lads meet up in the morning and have a walk up hunt in a certain area. The following week another area for the duration of the season. In that way a club covers a larger area and no over hunting of a particular area happens.

123shooter

meathstevie wrote: »

The UK system is ridiculously expensive for the ordinary lad to enjoy a bit of shooting unless you want to stick to foxes and rabbits. You'll be licking the back of mylords bag all season and consider yourself lucky to be allowed a few shots on a beaters day or something. That's definitely not the way forward. In fact it would be a regressive step.

:rolleyes:

If I would look anywhere for a system to implement I'd be looking towards the likes of Belgium and France. Clubs get exclusive written permissions ( exclusive in the sense that it's landowner and club members only ) from farmers/landowners and often cover several towns. In return the landowner gets a small reward, often a brace of pheasants or a few rabbits ready for the table although recently money has started to creep in. On a weekend day the lads meet up in the morning and have a walk up hunt in a certain area. The following week another area for the duration of the season. In that way a club covers a larger area and no over hunting of a particular area happens.

That't what a syndicate does........the lads pay their money in which goes to pay the farmers for the right to shoot on their land and only they shoot that land..............more money paid into the syndicate would pay for rearing of game on that land.

It all depends what kind of syndicate you join/pay into and what kind of shooting you require.

Some farmers would regard a bottle of whiskey at xmas and a brace of game as not being worth the hassle............but farmers are better tempted with hard cash.

Is the problem with some shooters that they want everything for just a few quid and resent or fear others coming along and them paying more for their shooting land?

useurowname

What does an average syndicate charge in Ireland?

grassroot1

useurowname wrote: »

What does an average syndicate charge in Ireland?

I was talking to a guy from a syndicate in the next village it is costing them 35 euro a bird shot to rear the game.
if you say 16 members 8 shoot and 8 beat then swap
Shooting 60 birds a day on 8 shoots = 480 birds by 35 euro = 16800 euro
16800 divided by 16 = 1050 euro per member
I dont know if they are paying the landowner, he is a member of the syndicate.
First year would be dearer I would guess with large set up costs.

useurowname

Had you been asked to join?

123shooter

grassroot1 wrote: »

I was talking to a guy from a syndicate in the next village it is costing them 35 euro a bird shot to rear the game.
if you say 16 members 8 shoot and 8 beat then swap
Shooting 60 birds a day on 8 shoots = 480 birds by 35 euro = 16800 euro
16800 divided by 16 = 1050 euro per member
I dont know if they are paying the landowner, he is a member of the syndicate.
First year would be dearer I would guess with large set up costs.

So basically 20 euro per week throughout the year.

I used to pay more than that on a Sunday morning in the 1980's just for 30 and 50 clays!!!!!

You think a grand or two a year is too much?

grassroot1

useurowname wrote: »

Had you been asked to join?

No I have not but I have been looking at a similar project on a far lesser scale

grassroot1

123shooter wrote: »

So basically 20 euro per week throughout the year.

I used to pay more than that on a Sunday morning in the 1980's just for 30 and 50 clays!!!!!

You think a grand or two a year is too much?

I dont know to be honest per week its a small sum 4 pints a week. Its a DIY shoot of course so you are expected to muck in.(no objection there either) for 8 shoots of course.
But if you look at the 100 euro to my gunclub for 30 days shooting including NARGC compensation cover for 30 head of game/wildfowl.I dont know
If I was asked I would probably jump at it.

useurowname

123shooter wrote: »

So basically 20 euro per week throughout the year.

I used to pay more than that on a Sunday morning in the 1980's just for 30 and 50 clays!!!!!

You think a grand or two a year is too much?

Depends on the quality if the shooting. I'd sooner 5 quality birds than 20 flappers

123shooter

useurowname wrote: »

Depends on the quality if the shooting. I'd sooner 5 quality birds than 20 flappers

Thats a bit like being asked if paying to watch your favorite football team and saying ok I will pay if they win but not if they lose or draw.

I think shooting in Ireland is doomed.:rolleyes:

useurowname

No, it's like saying I'd pay €1050 for a season ticket to watch Real Madrid , but I wouldn't to watch Longford Town.
I've been on bad shoots, Micky mouse efforts tbh, in boring surroundings shooting at tame chickens . I'm no crack shot but a lot of the birds I'd have taken with a catapult. Give me a half decent days rough shooting anytime.

123shooter

useurowname wrote: »

No, it's like saying I'd pay €1050 for a season ticket to watch Real Madrid , but I wouldn't to watch Longford Town.
I've been on bad shoots, Micky mouse efforts tbh, in boring surroundings shooting at tame chickens . I'm no crack shot but a lot of the birds I'd have taken with a catapult. Give me a half decent days rough shooting anytime.

But that applies everywhere and in every part of life. So you scout around and look at reviews before you buy or in this case join a syndicate.

You dont use it as an excuse/reason not to do something.

If people wont spend money then there is no investment or point to anything.

If its 'free free free' you want then its soon gone or not good quality.

Grizzly 45

"Show me your books first on bag returns over five years and the heads your let has produced.Then I'll know if it's value for money or not." Would be a good adage in these cases.
Have heard of some shoots demanding stupid money for really nothing at all.Claims of huge stags when asked, amount to no photographs or "ah well the lad that shot it is unavailable for [basically ever]. Anywhere else people would be ripping the mount off the wall to get it in to show the prospective client.
Like anything else, while they are saying "show me the money,"you should be saying" show me what you got."