Cashless Society

Alun

I was in Iceland earlier in the year for a long weekend and didn't even bother getting any Icelandic cash out. Paid for absolutely everything with Android pay or card. Everybody takes card payments, even the hotdog stalls on the street. I'm not even sure I saw anyone pay with cash apart from some English tourists in our hotel at the bar. The barman actually looked a bit peeved that he had to mess around giving change rather than just letting them tap their cards.

jerseyman

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s already happening. I’m sure some few businesses are cash only. The fact that you’ve got to point to a specific pub that’s cash only as distinct from all the other pubs that take cards, demonstrates that it’s already well under way.

Whether things go completely 100% cashless is debatable. Right now I take out cash £30 each month and that’s all the cash I need. Everything else is digital. Rent, utilities, food, entertainment, online shopping, clothes are all digital. When one of the lads books match tickets for the group, about half the time they send around their bank account no. for everyone to pay through their phone rather than cash.

Money is mostly digital for me already.

the one pub was my experience, I'm sure there are others. I am all for using the card instead of cash but have had a few situations where the machine wasn't working, I paid cash then but would be curious to know what others do in this situation Customer side and Business side.

my poor tortured hands

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The state are unlikely to have declared that purpose when requesting the information.

If they didn't declare the purpose then using the data for that purpose would be illegal.

I accept though that the government routinely breaks the law and uses data in ways it's not supposed to.

jerseyman

murpho999 wrote: »

So you know of one pub and that means it's not happening.

Also, any business that deals in cash only and still accepts cheques (the most insecure form of payment) are really stupid as they are taking security risks have large amount of cash onsite and they are paying way more in bank charges to have cash handled by their banks than they would for electronic transactions.

one business I experienced, I'm sure there are more. was just saying that plenty of businesses still operate cash only. I just can't imagine it happening in Ireland anytime soon. yes cheques can bounce or be forged but can be handy in certain situations.

Alun wrote: »

I was in Iceland earlier in the year for a long weekend and didn't even bother getting any Icelandic cash out. Paid for absolutely everything with Android pay or card. Everybody takes card payments, even the hotdog stalls on the street. I'm not even sure I saw anyone pay with cash apart from some English tourists in our hotel at the bar. The barman actually looked a bit peeved that he had to mess around giving change rather than just letting them tap their cards.

I haven't been there but sounds alot like Sweden where you could pay the taxi with a credit card, was great (especially when different currency)

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

my poor tortured hands

We won't be completely cashless for a long time, if ever.

I deliberately use cash in preference to using tracked services like cards or phones.

Criminals and drug dealers will always have a use for cash. If cash was banned then some other medium of exchange would be developed, perhaps simply links from gold chains. Gold is undoubtedly a currency and it can't be easily banned.

If cash was banned a large paralell black market would develop.
What size would it be?
5% of the overall market?
10%?

Banning cash won't result in everybody giving up drugs and drug dealers can't accept cards.



Technology is allowing governments to track and to control their populations to a greater degree than ever before. People should rrecognise that and pay in cash as much as possible.

cnocbui

This may sound a bit far-fetched, but I think it would be very dangerous and stupid to have a cashless society. Apparently, North Korea/China have been very active in probing utilities in the US looking for the means to disrupt and damage their electricity grid. South Australia recently had a 24hr power blackout because the relied too much on renewables and a storm caused havoc. I read how supermarkets continued to function by torchlight and doing transactions manually with cash.

With cash, you can still buy stuff if the lights go out. Imagine a cashless society and having a week long power blackout - how about months?. I'm sure Costa Rica would have had a great old time after the Hurricane took out their grid for months.

Cash has worked fine for millenia and there is no reason whatsoever to do away with it.

K.Flyer

Like it or loathe it but cashless society has been in the planning for decades. The main reason is to facilitate governments investigating peoples lifestyle against their supposed incomes.
Not tinfoil hat stuff either. Over 30 years ago a retired Phillips engineer was telling me how they were developing the technology before he retired.
A book was written by Robert Hendrickson, called The Cashless Society, in 1972, I think this is the one the same engineer gave me to read in the mid 80s.

B.A._Baracus

If we did go to a cashless society and it was like sci-fi movies using your thumb print to pay .... Then erm yeah there would be a lot of thumbless people going around.

4068ac1elhodqr

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

If we did go to a cashless society and it was like sci-fi movies using your thumb print to pay .... Then erm yeah there would be a lot of thumbless people going around.

Thumb (right hand RFID impant) and forehead (Iris scan) actually.

Which would fit in with a few lines from the Book of Revelation, regarding cashless transactions.

Interestingly, during development of processor speeds, many processors such as the intel Pentium 3 were 'hacked up slightly' to 667mhz, instead of the natural 666 MHz. Perhaps modern Corei7's etc. run on a multiplication of that 666 signature, well pending amount of decimal places.

B.A._Baracus

So you're telling me I have to chop off their finger and take an eye?

... Bit messy. I'm a classy criminal.

cnocbui

K.Flyer wrote: »

Like it or loathe it but cashless society has been in the planning for decades. The main reason is to facilitate governments investigating peoples lifestyle against their supposed incomes.
Not tinfoil hat stuff either. Over 30 years ago a retired Phillips engineer was telling me how they were developing the technology before he retired.
A book was written by Robert Hendrickson, called The Cashless Society, in 1972, I think this is the one the same engineer gave me to read in the mid 80s.

Ah, yes, that old stalking horse bollocks of the old illegal activity and tax evasion. I have a theory that the measures currently being used to try and prevent these actually cost governments more in lost revenue through stifling and prevention of economic activity, than they end up collecting.

Modi in India trumpeted this garbage long and load as a justification for him imposing immense suffering and inconvenience on the Indian people, and look what happened, the Treasury reported that, almost all the notes in circulation were deposited to accounts, and were accounted for, so it was all for nothing. Therr either was nothing like as much illegal money as claimed or everyone worked out a way to legitimise it.

100 people are said to have died from exhaustion while standing in lines trying to get the new notes and an inestimable an far greater number of farmers are said to have committed suicide because they could not buy seed as they could not exchange their notes.

Ginger83

Readies...yer only man, wouldn't be without. And the nokia 3310

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

This is the kind of stuff that really creeps me out. Like is it really worth getting a micro chip implanted in your body so you can scan your hand over a vending machine to get a bar of chocolate? Why like?
I really love technology. But there is a point or line where it's not only not needed, it will actually become inconvenient, unnecessary and too intrusive.

El_Duderino 09

cnocbui wrote: »

Ah, yes, that old stalking horse bollocks of the old illegal activity and tax evasion. I have a theory that the measures currently being used to try and prevent these actually cost governments more in lost revenue through stifling and prevention of economic activity, than they end up collecting

There are always some burdens put on business to comply with tax legislation. Especially with small business where they have to pay an accountant to make sure they’re tax compliant. But on the other hand small and medium sized businesses make up half of the official tax gap (uncollected tax) in the uk. So it’s a balancing act.

Generally the money spent on recouping unpaid tax is repaid about 7 fold. Depends on which group the campaign is aimed at. Tax avoidance has been the most recent focus.

Capt'n Midnight

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

If we did go to a cashless society and it was like sci-fi movies using your thumb print to pay .... Then erm yeah there would be a lot of thumbless people going around.

From 2005 Malaysia car thieves steal finger

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

This is the kind of stuff that really creeps me out. Like is it really worth getting a micro chip implanted in your body so you can scan your hand over a vending machine to get a bar of chocolate?

From 2006 Video surveillance outfit chips workers

A lot of people who worry about the future without realising it became a reality a long time ago.

Atoms for Peace

Give me convenience or death!

LaVidaEsAsi

Interesting to see the opinions on either side in this thread. I've been thinking about this recently, as I've realised I'm spending more these days and need to rein it in. I used to be pretty good at limiting card use and found by withdrawing a certain budgeted amount of cash weekly, I appreciated it more and spent it consciously and carefully. Even though I paid with card occasionally when necessary, I particularly resisted those <30euro contactless payments, both because I didn't really trust contactless and because it might lead to poor spending habits. Then, as contactless became more popular, there were one or two occasions when I just didn't have cash and actually shop assistants decided to tap the card for me (I'm sure other people have experienced this).

I developed a lazy habit of overusing contactless and this is the biggest issue for me. All those small <30euro payments and associated charges add up and while others have said they can track their spending more when they use card, I'm definitely in the camp of people who find the opposite. I don't easily recall small card payments, but I'm very aware of parting with cash. In fact, not only do I track spending better using cash, I will also be more likely to forgo unnecessary/impulse purchases if I have to part with cash. It's just a bit throw-away, I think, when you're using a piece of plastic instead. So, without even getting into the privacy issues others have (i.e. the idea of being refused health insurance because of my tracked consumption habits), I am not a big fan and will be returning to my old cash ways, purely to spend less. The one exception being leap cards, which another poster mentioned. Those I can get behind, not even for the savings (which are a good thing) but for removing the need for *exact* change. Hopefully we won't become a totally cashless society as I think what is best is not cashless, but options (including cash).

Dohnjoe

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

A lot of people who worry about the future without realising it became a reality a long time ago.

With two isolated cases over 10 years ago? It's not something that should worry people in the slightest, but this is the internet, never miss a chance for fear-mongering and exaggeration