BIK on EVs.

Robotfarmer

EV's cost more. You could end up spending 4-5k per annum BIK. Is there an fuel savings if you charge 75% at home? Or does having to charge every second day at home outweigh the benefits?

hold my beer

Robotfarmer wrote: »

EV's cost more. You could end up spending 4-5k per annum BIK. Is there an fuel savings if you charge 75% at home? Or does having to charge every second day at home outweigh the benefits?

I only have to charge my ID4 about once a week so far

sh81722

Robotfarmer wrote: »

EV's cost more. You could end up spending 4-5k per annum BIK. Is there an fuel savings if you charge 75% at home? Or does having to charge every second day at home outweigh the benefits?

Home charging at night rate costs us approx 1.50/100 km regardless how often you charge. We tend to charge as a matter of fact when the car has less than 50% at the end of the day unless we are certain that the car definitely won't be used the following day. On the other hand if we are certain there will lots of driving the following day we charge even if the car is almost full.


We tend to charge twice or three times a week for our use case.


If you currently pay for fuel for any car it will be most definitely be cheaper to drive an EV if can charge at home for most of the driving. Even for longer day trips both the initial and end of the day charging can be at home so in practice the usage of public charging will be minimal on most of the current crop of EVs on sale even for a really high mile driver.

kop-end

sh81722 wrote: »

Home charging at night rate costs us approx 1.50/100 km regardless how often you charge. We tend to charge as a matter of fact when the car has less than 50% at the end of the day unless we are certain that the car definitely won't be used the following day. On the other hand if we are certain there will lots of driving the following day we charge even if the car is almost full.


We tend to charge twice or three times a week for our use case.


If you currently pay for fuel for any car it will be most definitely be cheaper to drive an EV if can charge at home for most of the driving. Even for longer day trips both the initial and end of the day charging can be at home so in practice the usage of public charging will be minimal on most of the current crop of EVs on sale even for a really high mile driver.

Most company BIK drivers will have access to a fuel card so would have never paid for fuel from their own pocket so charging at home is a new cost for them wether the cost is minimal or not. This additional cost added on to a possible 22% BIK charge from 2023 makes the decision from now very difficult for the driver.

sh81722

kop-end wrote: »

Most company BIK drivers will have access to a fuel card so would have never paid for fuel from their own pocket so charging at home is a new cost for them wether the cost is minimal or not. This additional cost added on to a possible 22% BIK charge from 2023 makes the decision from now very difficult for the driver.

That's why I mentioned the "if you currently pay for fuel". For BEVs it will makes lot of sense to claim for mileage instead of getting a company car as a BIK.

rocketspocket

kop-end wrote: »

Most company BIK drivers will have access to a fuel card so would have never paid for fuel from their own pocket so charging at home is a new cost for them wether the cost is minimal or not. This additional cost added on to a possible 22% BIK charge from 2023 makes the decision from now very difficult for the driver.

A lot of people will go for PHEV or a low Co2 car from 2023 - a 2L diesel BMW X5 xdrive 45e hybrid (32g/km Co2) or Mercedes-Benz GLE 350de 2L Diesel (23g/km Co2) will incur the same BIK cost as a fully electric EV - i've raised this silliness with my TD as what incentive would there be to go all electric from then - these cars maybe 'cleaner' but still burn diesel ..

kop-end

rocketspocket wrote: »

A lot of people will go for PHEV or a low Co2 car from 2023 - a 2L diesel BMW X5 xdrive 45e hybrid (32g/km Co2) or Mercedes-Benz GLE 350de 2L Diesel (23g/km Co2) will incur the same BIK cost as a fully electric EV - i've raised this silliness with my TD as what incentive would there be to go all electric from then - these cars maybe 'cleaner' but still burn diesel ..

The fact that this situation may arise is complete madness, where is the joined up thinking? PHEV enjoying the same benefit as a BEV.....
Why would you bother with full electric from 2023?

Robotfarmer

kop-end wrote: »

The fact that this situation may arise is complete madness, where is the joined up thinking? PHEV enjoying the same benefit as a BEV.....
Why would you bother with full electric from 2023?

Look at all the hybrid buses bought by NTA. Always running on diesel. Policies need to be put in my Green party. Has to start from the top.

jordan191

i'm wondering after 2022 would there be BIK due on a commercial EV like say a pick up truck, or would it be 5% similar to the BIK rate on commercial vans currently

jordan191

jordan191 wrote: »

i'm wondering after 2022 would there be BIK due on a commercial EV like say a pick up truck, or would it be 5% similar to the BIK rate on commercial vans currently

I asked my Friend again about how he and his colleagues avoid the BIK on vans and I think it's to do with them using the van for work where as the Chap that sits in the office all day uses it to drive to work and back and he's hit with the BIK so if anyone is paying BIK for a van do really check it out.

Mc-BigE

Friend of mine was about to pull the trigger on a company car ID4 last week, I told him about the 22% bik coming in Jan 23.
He didn't know it was ending, the dealership was mad selling the 0% bik and 3 year pcp and lease options available. Completely backward step by the government, the UK system is much fairer. 1% bik , increasing over time slowly, not a 22% jump like us.

I don't think he is going ahead with the EV now. Probably stick with this Diesel vAn or get a crew cab pickup

Buddy Bubs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I asked my Friend again about how he and his colleagues avoid the BIK on vans and I think it's to do with them using the van for work where as the Chap that sits in the office all day uses it to drive to work and back and he's hit with the BIK so if anyone is paying BIK for a van do really check it out.

I was my companies representative during a revenue audit a good few years ago, they brought up BIK on the 20 or so vans we have. They said it was OK not to BIK them if they were using vans to go straight to jobs away from our premises every morning and leaving from jobs away from premises every evening. Which they do most days. So we have no BIK on company vans.

This country is pure joke, the Taxes in general are ridiculous.

rocketspocket

Mc-BigE wrote: »

Friend of mine was about to pull the trigger on a company car ID4 last week, I told him about the 22% bik coming in Jan 23.
He didn't know it was ending, the dealership was mad selling the 0% bik and 3 year pcp and lease options available. Completely backward step by the government, the UK system is much fairer. 1% bik , increasing over time slowly, not a 22% jump like us.

I don't think he is going ahead with the EV now. Probably stick with this Diesel vAn or get a crew cab pickup

I wouldn't have went near an EV had it been how it is was the 2023 rule- its a backward step - more interested in short term revenue vs long term goal. from 0 to 22% is just crazy - the UK are doing 1% incremental annual increases which makes sense.

putting diesel cars in the same bracket as pure evs is simply crazy...

Buddy Bubs

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

I was my companies representative during a revenue audit a good few years ago, they brought up BIK on the 20 or so vans we have. They said it was OK not to BIK them if they were using vans to go straight to jobs away from our premises every morning and leaving from jobs away from premises every evening. Which they do most days. So we have no BIK on company vans.

Yes that must be it, makes no sense to charge BIK to van drivers.

Robotfarmer

I think there will be BIK on EV's in 2023, but I think it will be more like 10%.

Don't take it for granted. Time to lobby is now.

kop-end

Robotfarmer wrote: »

I think there will be BIK on EV's in 2023, but I think it will be more like 10%.

Don't take it for granted. Time to lobby is now.

Good point, I think we still have a long way to go before the proposed 22% BIK in 2023. I would be surprised if this what actually happens. Somewhere in the middle may be easy for all involved to swallow, especially those company car drivers who may be facing the decision between now and December 2022.

Casati

kop-end wrote: »

Good point, I think we still have a long way to go before the proposed 22% BIK in 2023. I would be surprised if this what actually happens. Somewhere in the middle may be easy for all involved to swallow, especially those company car drivers who may be facing the decision between now and December 2022.

A way to go to work out what Covid has cost the country

Casati

Casati wrote: »

A way to go to work out what Covid has cost the country

More like what our Government has cost the Country!

Mc-BigE

Robotfarmer wrote: »

I think there will be BIK on EV's in 2023, but I think it will be more like 10%.

Don't take it for granted. Time to lobby is now.

Very hard for a business to make a decision on financing a new company car EV without certainty on the overall cost over the next 3 to 5 years. Just like all the companies suffering at the moment due to covid, they need certainty. Also the employee needs certainty for the same reason

wassie

I take your point, but in reality businesses make decision based on uncertainty all the time. Likewise Govt can make policy decisions removing what was once 'certainty' overnight.

For me I knew that I would get 2 years @ 0% until 2023, so I would be far in front over an ICE even when the new BIK rate for BEVs is introduced. You need to look at the total cost over the life of the lease.

I also doubt very much we are going to be faced with a 22% rate. However if I am wrong, I still think we will be better off as the 2030 emissions target is going to require either a carrot or stick approach to get us in emissions free cars.

kop-end

wassie wrote: »

I take your point, but in reality businesses make decision based on uncertainty all the time. Likewise Govt can make policy decisions removing what was once 'certainty' overnight.

For me I knew that I would get 2 years @ 0% until 2023, so I would be far in front over an ICE even when the new BIK rate for BEVs is introduced. You need to look at the total cost over the life of the lease.

I also doubt very much we are going to be faced with a 22% rate. However if I am wrong, I still think we will be better off as the 2030 emissions target is going to require either a carrot or stick approach to get us in emissions free cars.

I take your point and I agree that when you made your decision you had a window of comfort knowing you had a minimum of 24 months of 0% BIK driving. Anyone changing now will be looking at an 18month window, after December 2022, who knows? this translates into most decisions for company car EV leases will be looked at less favourably by the driver With the fear of a big BIK bill in 2023, especially if their company allows them to choose a higher value EV than the comparable ICE car as the savings will be picked up via fuels cards, ACG, tolls, etc.....

wassie

My point was look at the total BIK cost over the life of the lease. I took a 4 year lease, knowing at least 50% will be BIK free and am extremely confident that I will be in front than if I went an ICE over the same period.

Anyone taking a 3 year lease on an EV now will also still be 50% BIK free during the BIK term and will only have a further 18 months at what ever the new BIK rate is. At present we are all looking at 22%. Still less than an ICE over the corresponding period.

The uncertainty lies around will the rate be reduced below 22% to incentivise the uptake of EVs. My guess is we will find out at the next budget, which will be 15 months out for the end of 2022. Expect lobbying from industry and green groups in support of our desire for a lower BIK.

Uptake of EVs has been slow to date, in part I would say due to primarily cost and it would make sense to have some kind of BIK incentive going forward to encourage this. 2030 emissions targets are not going away. However 2021 is a watershed year for EVs with most manufacturers bringing models to the market so we will see more choice, competition and lower prices.

The reality is as we shift away from ICE cars, BIK will be normalised on EVs. What we are speculating about here is the rate at which this change occurs.

innrain

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but my understanding is that the BIK changes coming from 2023 have been published as law already. They are not proposed or discussions.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showpost.php?p=116290746&postcount=288

Unless there is a change of heart, which I seriously doubt it (VRT increase in some cases, grant removal), the signals are they want to limit the "fast" pace of EV adoption.

kop-end

Here’s a question which is not made very clear on the revenue website. When the new proposed BIK rate of 22% is introduced, will the OMV be based on the private buyer value or the commercial buyer value? Using the ID4 as an example, the difference could be +€5k on the same models
Thanks

rocketspocket

kop-end wrote: »

Here’s a question which is not made very clear on the revenue website. When the new proposed BIK rate of 22% is introduced, will the OMV be based on the private buyer value or the commercial buyer value? Using the ID4 as an example, the difference could be +€5k on the same models
Thanks

My understanding is OMV is against the commercial price given that the 5K is from SEAI and commercial purchase never receive this

Zenith74

kop-end wrote: »

Here’s a question which is not made very clear on the revenue website. When the new proposed BIK rate of 22% is introduced, will the OMV be based on the private buyer value or the commercial buyer value? Using the ID4 as an example, the difference could be +€5k on the same models
Thanks

What accounts for that €5k difference, the SEAI grant? If so then Revenue state "As Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI) grants are paid after the
registration of the vehicle, the OMV is not reduced by the value of the SEAI grant.". So it's the list price of the car including whatever VAT and VRT was payable on it.

R.O.R

innrain wrote: »

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but my understanding is that the BIK changes coming from 2023 have been published as law already. They are not proposed or discussions.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showpost.php?p=116290746&postcount=288

Unless there is a change of heart, which I seriously doubt it (VRT increase in some cases, grant removal), the signals are they want to limit the "fast" pace of EV adoption.

The changes were published in the 2019 finance act - https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2019/45/eng/enacted/a4519.pdf - pages 10-12 of the PDF.

kop-end wrote: »

Here’s a question which is not made very clear on the revenue website. When the new proposed BIK rate of 22% is introduced, will the OMV be based on the private buyer value or the commercial buyer value? Using the ID4 as an example, the difference could be +€5k on the same models
Thanks

BIK is based on the retail price. There aren't 2 different retail prices for the vehicle. There is the Retail Price (commercial) and the Retail Price less Grant (private).

BIK is based on the retail price of the vehicle before any grant/rebate is applied - I got confirmation from Revenue on that point a few years ago.

kop-end

R.O.R wrote: »

The changes were published in the 2019 finance act - https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2019/45/eng/enacted/a4519.pdf - pages 10-12 of the PDF.



BIK is based on the retail price. There aren't 2 different retail prices for the vehicle. There is the Retail Price (commercial) and the Retail Price less Grant (private).

BIK is based on the retail price of the vehicle before any grant/rebate is applied - I got confirmation from Revenue on that point a few years ago.

Well that certainly clears up that question. Thanks

Zenith74

R.O.R wrote: »

BIK is based on the retail price of the vehicle before any grant/rebate is applied - I got confirmation from Revenue on that point a few years ago.

Before the SEAI grant but after the VRT "grant"/exemption right?