General Rugby Discussion II

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

Not sure if it's been mentioned anywhere but ROG to Crusaders has been confirmed.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/1122/921963-ronan/

Might be worth it's own thread...

Burkie1203

Townsend fears for Scotland team if players keep leaving. SRU in a weak position. They cant hope to compete financially and its unworkable to have a similar approach to IRFU either.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/42083604

errlloyd

I don't quite understand why Scotland can't afford to keep their players. They only have two clubs, and most of their players wouldn't be as sought after as ours so I reckon the average wage of their international 23 is less than ours too.

Given the provinces are funded by the union, and the union generates revenue through ticket sales, TV rights and a few sponsorship deals surely Scotland are in a similar position to us. They have a big stadium, they own, and they sell out regularly. (is the average ticket cheaper)? They're in all the same leagues as us, so get the same revenue share (we get slightly more from Europe per club I guess). Do we do much better with sponsorship than they do?

Wexfordboy89

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12321/11138972/george-north-to-leave-northampton-and-return-to-wales

George north on his way back to a welsh club good news for the league to have a big name coming bck

CatFromHue

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't quite understand why Scotland can't afford to keep their players. They only have two clubs, and most of their players wouldn't be as sought after as ours so I reckon the average wage of their international 23 is less than ours too.

Given the provinces are funded by the union, and the union generates revenue through ticket sales, TV rights and a few sponsorship deals surely Scotland are in a similar position to us. They have a big stadium, they own, and they sell out regularly. (is the average ticket cheaper)? They're in all the same leagues as us, so get the same revenue share (we get slightly more from Europe per club I guess). Do we do much better with sponsorship than they do?

The attendances for Edin and Glas were genuinely ****e (between 2 and 3K) up until recently, that's got to be a factor.

They do own Murrayfield but I thought, like Wales, they had a big debt on their books for a long time after they built it. In 2005 I think they still owed 20mil on it.

The Lost Sheep

CatFromHue wrote: »

The attendances for Edin and Glas were genuinely ****e (between 2 and 3K) up until recently, that's got to be a factor.

They do own Murrayfield but I thought, like Wales, they had a big debt on their books for a long time after they built it. In 2005 I think they still owed 20mil on it.

The Scottish Union still owe 5million or so on Murrayfield and attendances has to be a factor. Glasgow attendances are much better than what they were but its still only about an average of 7000 or so a game.

CIARAN_BOYLE

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't quite understand why Scotland can't afford to keep their players. They only have two clubs, and most of their players wouldn't be as sought after as ours so I reckon the average wage of their international 23 is less than ours too.

Given the provinces are funded by the union, and the union generates revenue through ticket sales, TV rights and a few sponsorship deals surely Scotland are in a similar position to us. They have a big stadium, they own, and they sell out regularly. (is the average ticket cheaper)? They're in all the same leagues as us, so get the same revenue share (we get slightly more from Europe per club I guess). Do we do much better with sponsorship than they do?

Do they try like we do?

They have only 2 teams so they need players outside Scotland to provide depth for the international team.

That said the Irish provinces get much better Attendance. More people would attend Leinster Munster than would attend all of Edinburgh or Glasgow home leage games in a season. Probably similar ticket prices too.

swiwi_

Interested Observer wrote: »

BBC suggesting Finn Russell will earn £700,000 per season in France. Absolutely mental.

One of the problems for the Irish Pro 14 teams (and NZ super rugby teams have the same problem, especially with their SA counterparts) is that it becomes less appealing if the opposition becomes too weak: losing Russell, and I see in the same article that Johnny Gray has also been targeted, weakens Glasgow quite a bit. On the other hand, a chance for a new player to put his hand up, I suppose.

connemara man

https://twitter.com/RugbyramaFR/status/933325849285283841

Mourad saying that Toulon will not play on Sundays anymore, will forfeit any games in the future.

pickarooney

A ploy to sign Euan Murray from Pau, no doubt.

I suppose the one draw back of suger daddies is if they turn out to be a little bit mad.

Interested Observer

What's the reasoning given for that?

irishbucsfan

I think it's because they claim they've been scheduled on Sunday too many times.

Buer

I can't imagine Scotland's sponsorship deals would be at the level of Ireland's nor would they make a fraction of what we'd make from merchandise. Most people in Ireland have a passing interest and would watch the national side. A lot of people who wouldn't be big fans might own some merchandise too whether it's a hat or a fleece or a gear bag etc.

Scotland is a football country. They've a fully functioning professional league with average attendance of about 15k for their top league (skewed by the Glasgow teams). Go outside of Edinburgh and Glasgow and there's no professional rugby team for about 3 million of their population. I've work mates from Aberdeen and Dunfermline and there's absolutely no interest whatsoever in rugby in those areas which would be some of the bigger urban centres in Scotland.

I would assume that Scottish rugby has navigated the potential financial collapse of a few years ago but I still expect they're surviving season to season as they try to consolidate.

swiwi_

Interested Observer wrote: »

What's the reasoning given for that?

It’s possibly because canal + was choosing the times to suit them and no one else

I happened to be at Toulon vs racing last weekend and the game was pushed back from Sunday early afternoon to Sunday early evening to suit the tv. It’s not great for the fans I suppose and in our case we got back Switzerland and into bed at 4am.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Buer wrote: »

I would assume that Scottish rugby has navigated the potential financial collapse of a few years ago but I still expect they're surviving season to season as they try to consolidate.

Agreed. One of the reasons for them backing France is an extra international (with Italy arranged by France) and their share of the extra money offered by France.

Look at Scotland summer tours and compare them to Ireland. We almost always go to a tier 1 country during a non lions non world cup year. Scotland may have to make due with tier 2 nations some summers despite having a full squad available.

The Scotish Rugby Union are planning on building a centre of excellence for the Scottish Rugby academy in the north of the country which would also provide pitches for local clubs to have matches of significance.

The planned cost of this project is £4,000,000

Yeah_Right

I can't remember the last time Scotland toured NZ. From my foggy memory, any time they go to Aus or SA it's for 1 or 2 matches. They don't seem to do 3 match tours. And they don't seem to generate the public interest down south that the other Home Nations and France do. I guess it's because they've been a bit crap for the last 20 odd years.

The Lost Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I can't remember the last time Scotland toured NZ. From my foggy memory, any time they go to Aus or SA it's for 1 or 2 matches. They don't seem to do 3 match tours. And they don't seem to generate the public interest down south that the other Home Nations and France do. I guess it's because they've been a bit crap for the last 20 odd years.

They haven't played in New Zealand since 2000.
They probably don't do 3 match tours for depth reasons and being bit crap

Buer

It's still surprising that they haven't toured NZ at all in so long even in conjunction with a game against Fiji or Samoa given the sizeable population in NZ with Scottish heritage.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I can't remember the last time Scotland toured NZ. From my foggy memory, any time they go to Aus or SA it's for 1 or 2 matches. They don't seem to do 3 match tours. And they don't seem to generate the public interest down south that the other Home Nations and France do. I guess it's because they've been a bit crap for the last 20 odd years.

I think the majority of times they've been to South Africa and Australia have been outside their summer tours as extra internationals. Ie Scotland are touring USA and Canada and ask South Africa to host them. Or during the lions Scotland took part in a mini tournament in Australia (with Italy Australia and a tier ii team).

England Ireland France and Wales seem to monopolize tours to Argentina South Africa Australia and New Zealand leaving Scotland and Italy picking at scraps.

The Lost Sheep

Buer wrote: »

It's still surprising that they haven't toured NZ at all in so long even in conjunction with a game against Fiji or Samoa given the sizeable population in NZ with Scottish heritage.

Its a slight surprise but then again we last toured New Zealand in 2012 and wont be there again until 2024 at the earliest

Interested Observer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Its a slight surprise but then again we last toured New Zealand in 2012 and wont be there again until 2024 at the earliest

Wut

How has that happened? Someone has to go there every summer, how have we managed a 12 year gap!?

Also - do we know who we're playing all the summers up to then? Next summer is Aus, 2019 and 2023 are RWCs, what about otherwise?

The Lost Sheep

Interested Observer wrote: »

Wut

How has that happened? Someone has to go there every summer, how have we managed a 12 year gap!?

Also - do we know who we're playing all the summers up to then? Next summer is Aus, 2019 and 2023 are RWCs, what about otherwise?

There is a world rugby tours schedule that all countries follow

Welsh schedule from 2013 was
2013: Wales tour Japan (British & Irish Lions in Australia)
2014: Wales tour South Africa
2015: Rugby World Cup (England)
2016: Wales are due to make a three-Test tour of New Zealand
2017: Wales tour Pacific Islands (British & Irish Lions in New Zealand)
2018: Wales tour Argentina
2019: Rugby World Cup (Japan)

Ours is
2013 North America - Lions
2014 Argentina
2015 RWC (England)
2016 South Africa
2017 Japan - Lions
2018 Australia
2019 RWC (Japan)
2020 Argentina
2021 Pacific Islands - Lions
2022 Australia
2023 RWC No Summer Tours

Englands is/was
2010 – Australia (and NZ Maori)
2011 – Rugby World cup (New Zealand)
2012 – South Africa
2013 – British and Irish Lions / Argentina
2014 – New Zealand
2015 – Rugby World cup (England)
2016 – Australia
2017 – British and Irish Lions / Argentina
2018 – South Africa
2019 – Rugby World cup (Japan)

Interested Observer

Sure I forgot about the Lions too. So with those and the RWC it's really only a proper tour for Ireland every other year.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Interested Observer wrote: »

Sure I forgot about the Lions too. So with those and the RWC it's really only a proper tour for Ireland every other year.

So in 11 years we have 6 real tours

2x Argentina
3x Australia
1x South Africa

I suppose England and France are pretty much the top draws while ourselves and Wales are middle of the road and Scotland and Italy are bottom of the pile.

Buer

We had an incredbily consistent run of tours of NZ. 2002, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012....I doubt any other northern hemisphere nation had so many visits down there. A 12 year gap is a long time but we probably squeezed in 25 years worth in 10 years.

CatFromHue

Today is the end of International, and probably all, rugby on RTE for a year, assuming RTE show next year's AIs.

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

Today is the end of International, and probably all, rugby on RTE for a year, assuming RTE show next year's AIs.

Aren't they showing the u20s and women's 6 Nations?

CatFromHue

I don't think so, I thought they were a part of the overall 6N package

determinations

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't think so, I thought they were a part of the overall 6N package

I was under the same impression.