General Rugby Discussion II

I suppose the one draw back of suger daddies is if they turn out to be a little bit mad.

What's the reasoning given for that?

irishbucsfan

I think it's because they claim they've been scheduled on Sunday too many times.

Buer

I can't imagine Scotland's sponsorship deals would be at the level of Ireland's nor would they make a fraction of what we'd make from merchandise. Most people in Ireland have a passing interest and would watch the national side. A lot of people who wouldn't be big fans might own some merchandise too whether it's a hat or a fleece or a gear bag etc.

Scotland is a football country. They've a fully functioning professional league with average attendance of about 15k for their top league (skewed by the Glasgow teams). Go outside of Edinburgh and Glasgow and there's no professional rugby team for about 3 million of their population. I've work mates from Aberdeen and Dunfermline and there's absolutely no interest whatsoever in rugby in those areas which would be some of the bigger urban centres in Scotland.

I would assume that Scottish rugby has navigated the potential financial collapse of a few years ago but I still expect they're surviving season to season as they try to consolidate.

swiwi_

Jazlyn Victorious Vessel wrote: »

What's the reasoning given for that?

It’s possibly because canal + was choosing the times to suit them and no one else

I happened to be at Toulon vs racing last weekend and the game was pushed back from Sunday early afternoon to Sunday early evening to suit the tv. It’s not great for the fans I suppose and in our case we got back Switzerland and into bed at 4am.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Buer wrote: »

I would assume that Scottish rugby has navigated the potential financial collapse of a few years ago but I still expect they're surviving season to season as they try to consolidate.

Agreed. One of the reasons for them backing France is an extra international (with Italy arranged by France) and their share of the extra money offered by France.

Look at Scotland summer tours and compare them to Ireland. We almost always go to a tier 1 country during a non lions non world cup year. Scotland may have to make due with tier 2 nations some summers despite having a full squad available.

The Scotish Rugby Union are planning on building a centre of excellence for the Scottish Rugby academy in the north of the country which would also provide pitches for local clubs to have matches of significance.

The planned cost of this project is £4,000,000

Yeah_Right

I can't remember the last time Scotland toured NZ. From my foggy memory, any time they go to Aus or SA it's for 1 or 2 matches. They don't seem to do 3 match tours. And they don't seem to generate the public interest down south that the other Home Nations and France do. I guess it's because they've been a bit crap for the last 20 odd years.

The Lost Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I can't remember the last time Scotland toured NZ. From my foggy memory, any time they go to Aus or SA it's for 1 or 2 matches. They don't seem to do 3 match tours. And they don't seem to generate the public interest down south that the other Home Nations and France do. I guess it's because they've been a bit crap for the last 20 odd years.

They haven't played in New Zealand since 2000.
They probably don't do 3 match tours for depth reasons and being bit crap

Buer

It's still surprising that they haven't toured NZ at all in so long even in conjunction with a game against Fiji or Samoa given the sizeable population in NZ with Scottish heritage.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I can't remember the last time Scotland toured NZ. From my foggy memory, any time they go to Aus or SA it's for 1 or 2 matches. They don't seem to do 3 match tours. And they don't seem to generate the public interest down south that the other Home Nations and France do. I guess it's because they've been a bit crap for the last 20 odd years.

I think the majority of times they've been to South Africa and Australia have been outside their summer tours as extra internationals. Ie Scotland are touring USA and Canada and ask South Africa to host them. Or during the lions Scotland took part in a mini tournament in Australia (with Italy Australia and a tier ii team).

England Ireland France and Wales seem to monopolize tours to Argentina South Africa Australia and New Zealand leaving Scotland and Italy picking at scraps.

The Lost Sheep

Buer wrote: »

It's still surprising that they haven't toured NZ at all in so long even in conjunction with a game against Fiji or Samoa given the sizeable population in NZ with Scottish heritage.

Its a slight surprise but then again we last toured New Zealand in 2012 and wont be there again until 2024 at the earliest

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Its a slight surprise but then again we last toured New Zealand in 2012 and wont be there again until 2024 at the earliest

Wut

How has that happened? Someone has to go there every summer, how have we managed a 12 year gap!?

Also - do we know who we're playing all the summers up to then? Next summer is Aus, 2019 and 2023 are RWCs, what about otherwise?

The Lost Sheep

Jazlyn Victorious Vessel wrote: »

Wut

How has that happened? Someone has to go there every summer, how have we managed a 12 year gap!?

Also - do we know who we're playing all the summers up to then? Next summer is Aus, 2019 and 2023 are RWCs, what about otherwise?

There is a world rugby tours schedule that all countries follow

Welsh schedule from 2013 was
2013: Wales tour Japan (British & Irish Lions in Australia)
2014: Wales tour South Africa
2015: Rugby World Cup (England)
2016: Wales are due to make a three-Test tour of New Zealand
2017: Wales tour Pacific Islands (British & Irish Lions in New Zealand)
2018: Wales tour Argentina
2019: Rugby World Cup (Japan)

Ours is
2013 North America - Lions
2014 Argentina
2015 RWC (England)
2016 South Africa
2017 Japan - Lions
2018 Australia
2019 RWC (Japan)
2020 Argentina
2021 Pacific Islands - Lions
2022 Australia
2023 RWC No Summer Tours

Englands is/was
2010 – Australia (and NZ Maori)
2011 – Rugby World cup (New Zealand)
2012 – South Africa
2013 – British and Irish Lions / Argentina
2014 – New Zealand
2015 – Rugby World cup (England)
2016 – Australia
2017 – British and Irish Lions / Argentina
2018 – South Africa
2019 – Rugby World cup (Japan)

Sure I forgot about the Lions too. So with those and the RWC it's really only a proper tour for Ireland every other year.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Jazlyn Victorious Vessel wrote: »

Sure I forgot about the Lions too. So with those and the RWC it's really only a proper tour for Ireland every other year.

So in 11 years we have 6 real tours

2x Argentina
3x Australia
1x South Africa

I suppose England and France are pretty much the top draws while ourselves and Wales are middle of the road and Scotland and Italy are bottom of the pile.

Buer

We had an incredbily consistent run of tours of NZ. 2002, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012....I doubt any other northern hemisphere nation had so many visits down there. A 12 year gap is a long time but we probably squeezed in 25 years worth in 10 years.

CatFromHue

Today is the end of International, and probably all, rugby on RTE for a year, assuming RTE show next year's AIs.

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

Today is the end of International, and probably all, rugby on RTE for a year, assuming RTE show next year's AIs.

Aren't they showing the u20s and women's 6 Nations?

CatFromHue

I don't think so, I thought they were a part of the overall 6N package

determinations

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't think so, I thought they were a part of the overall 6N package

I was under the same impression.

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't think so, I thought they were a part of the overall 6N package

Then why are RTE negoatiating with the IRFU about the scheduling?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/irfu-rejects-rt%C3%A9-offer-of-prime-time-slot-for-women-s-rugby-1.3290639

EDIT: My understanding is that the u20 and women's 6 Nations being shown on RTE are a pre-requisite of the AIs being shown.

irishbucsfan

Montpellier getting hockeyed 21-0.

I don't understand French rugby. Why are teams so atrocious away from home.

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Montpellier getting hockeyed 21-0.

I don't understand French rugby. Why are teams so atrocious away from home.

Is it the firsts? If there is a deep squad and everyone sends the seconds away (except 2-3 games that are targetted) then teams going away are going to be slaughtered.

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Is it the firsts? If there is a deep squad and everyone sends the seconds away (except 2-3 games that are targetted) then teams going away are going to be slaughtered.

It's a strong team.

Missing internationals so their pack is a little depleted but their back line is:

Paillauge, Cruden, Tomane, Steyn, Dumoulin, Fall, Mogg

And they're losing 26-0

wavehopper1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's a strong team.

Missing internationals so their pack is a little depleted but their back line is:

Paillauge, Cruden, Tomane, Steyn, Dumoulin, Fall, Mogg

And they're losing 26-0

Sky commentators just apologised for the awful quality of the match

wavehopper1

I've noticed that forwards crawling a few inches on their knees when tackled seems to the new norm. Seen it across the Autumn tests, especially props. Healy was at it, but by no means the only one.
Coaches must be telling them to fight for every inch in the tackle, but isn't this illegal?

Bazzo

wavehopper1 wrote: »

I've noticed that forwards crawling a few inches on their knees when tackled seems to the new norm. Seen it across the Autumn tests, especially props. Healy was at it, but by no means the only one.
Coaches must be telling them to fight for every inch in the tackle, but isn't this illegal?

Technically yes, it's been standard for all players carrying in to contact for at least a couple of years now though and has been going unpunished.

irishbucsfan

It's only illegal if you're being held. There's certainly a lot of it happening where the player is held, but I think the reason it's not pinged more is because of that uncertainty making it difficult on the ref.

There's a bit of a gap in the current laws where we expect tacklers to roll away immediately, but also are effectively penalising them for rolling away too quickly.

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's only illegal if you're being held. There's certainly a lot of it happening where the player is held, but I think the reason it's not pinged more is because of that uncertainty making it difficult on the ref.

There's a bit of a gap in the current laws where we expect tacklers to roll away immediately, but also are effectively penalising them for rolling away too quickly.

You're not supposed to crawl along the ground regardless of whether you're held or not.

I agree about the gap in the laws though. Tackler is expected to immediately roll but at the same time has to hold to complete the tackle, it's a strange situation.

awec

There's also the little rolls on the ground that we seem to do to gain a metre or two after being tackled. I suspect they're also illegal, but just ignored?

irishbucsfan

Bazzo wrote: »

You're not supposed to crawl along the ground regardless of whether you're held or not.

I agree about the gap in the laws though. Tackler is expected to immediately roll but at the same time has to hold to complete the tackle, it's a strange situation.

You're not supposed to crawl around the ground but guys will get away with it for a bit because you can claim you were attempting to free yourself to get up, which is legal.

wavehopper1

awec wrote: »

There's also the little rolls on the ground that we seem to do to gain a metre or two after being tackled. I suspect they're also illegal, but just ignored?

When Ireland began to compete in the Sevens a few seasons ago, our players were being pinged a lot for taking just one roll before laying the ball back. Took them a while to get out of the habit. Seems strictly verboten in that code.

Bazzo

https://twitter.com/rugbytoulon_/status/934688134029221888

Castres and Toulon's head coaches aren't on the best of terms...

FACECUTTR

He is going to earn himself a nice little ban for that if not more.

Don Kiddick

FACECUTTR wrote: »

He is going to earn himself a nice little ban for that if not more.

Accidental contact, he was trying to swat a pesky fly

Don Kiddick

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Accidental contact, he was trying to swat a pesky fly

Apparently he's flying the Lomu's over to attend the hearing with him.

Burkie1203

Joy Neville has been named world rugby ref of the year

Fantastic achievement

pickarooney

How do they choose ref of the year? Least number of negative comments on message boards?

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

How do they choose ref of the year? Least number of negative comments on message boards?

"So gentlemen, we've checked all the forums and it's very clear that John Lacey is the World Rugby Referee of the Year by a significant margin. I'm sure John will be...."

"Hang on, we forgot to check Ulster fans..."

"John Lacey has come last in the competition for World Rugby Referee of the Year"

irishbucsfan

Midol has asked the question, is it time for the Top 14 to be cut to the Top 12 in order to reduce the number of games on players?

Larbre34

Your animation says it all. So long as there is breath in the bodies of the blazers at Biarritz and Perpignan, I cant see that happening.

sydthebeat

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/former-all-black-charles-piutau-could-play-for-tonga-at-the-2019-rwc/601210

Players who have represented one country's national 15-a-side team, next fifteen-a-side team or senior sevens team have the chance to switch allegiance to another nation, provided they had a passport for the second country and have completed a stand-down period of three years.

irishbucsfan

Didn't Isa Nacewa try that?

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Didn't Isa Nacewa try that?

They have to make their initial change in an Olympic event. Given that rugby only returned to the Olympics in 2016, it was never really an option to have a 34 year old getting a game for the NZ 7-a-side team.

Technically, he could have played a couple of qualifying tournament for Ireland and then been able to play for Ireland's full team if I understand the situation correctly.

It's an interesting loophole (and a bit of a farce) but technically you could see teams signing guys with a few caps who are relatively young and getting them into their national sides. Someone like Fekitoa, for example, would be a candidate I assume? Or Luatua?

irishbucsfan

Scott Williams signs for Ospreys, leaving Scarlets.

I have a feeling it's going to be a very fun day on Welsh Rugby Twitter.

Buer

He has really hit a rut in his career this season which is reflected in his place in the test pecking order. A change will probably benefit him.

Welsh regions have an incredible ability to fail to build on any promise or initial success. Cardiff, Scarlets and the Ospreys have all won trophies and looked very strong at respective points over the past 6 or 7 seasons yet inevitably find themselves falling apart within a few years of that success.

sydthebeat

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Scott Williams signs for Ospreys, leaving Scarlets.

I have a feeling it's going to be a very fun day on Welsh Rugby Twitter.

swapped with kieran fonitia

http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/news/12250.php#.Wh66nkrLyUl

b.gud

Every time I see Scott Williams this always pops into my head

razorblunt

Scott Williams, 5th choice center for Wales.
Scott Williams, 4,985th choice Williams in Wales.

Saw this on reddit, thought it was worth sharing here!