Teenagers blowing up Kittens

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's about intent, cost/benefit, and reason. The intention of killing a mouse is to protect your food from germs and your furniture etc from damage. Cats post no such risks in general. Nobody enjoys the thought of killing a mouse, it's the end result - a clean, safe house - that people want. Nobody enjoys the thought of animals being killed for food - it's the end result of eating the foot that people are after.

Killing a kitten with a firework is not about the end result, it's about enjoying watching the animal suffer. It has no benefits, unlike killing pests or food animals. The reasons for doing it are not about personal safety or hygiene - the reason is the enjoyment of suffering. And that's the problem - individuals who enjoy watching animals suffer for its own sake are vile individuals, and some of us would prefer to live in a society free from vile individuals.

that's a very human-centred view of the world?

I'm not sure that it is of any consolation to the mouse, writhing during its agnonizing death (and often, only dying of dehydration) to know the purpose of its death.

The agony that is felt by a mouse in a traditional mousetrap is in no way mitigated by the objective of its killing. It is no more principled a killing (and in fact, quite slower) than a cat that is blown to pieces by a firework (even if that did happen).

It seems to me as though you're excusing certain human behaviours on account of the human's sensibilities, but you're not taking proper account of real pain and real suffering on behalf of those animals that are enduring it.

Neither the mouse in its trap, nor the putative cat that is attached to a firework, has any comprehension of why it is being tortured by humans. All either animal knows, is severe pain.

AMKC

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's about intent, cost/benefit, and reason. The intention of killing a mouse is to protect your food from germs and your furniture etc from damage. Cats post no such risks in general. Nobody enjoys the thought of killing a mouse, it's the end result - a clean, safe house - that people want. Nobody enjoys the thought of animals being killed for food - it's the end result of eating the foot that people are after.

Killing a kitten with a firework is not about the end result, it's about enjoying watching the animal suffer. It has no benefits, unlike killing pests or food animals. The reasons for doing it are not about personal safety or hygiene - the reason is the enjoyment of suffering. And that's the problem - individuals who enjoy watching animals suffer for its own sake are vile individuals, and some of us would prefer to live in a society free from vile individuals.

Well said.

it's the end result of eating the foot that people are after.

I am not too keen on eating foots do but whatever you like yourself.

RayM

I don't really like it when people respond to stuff like this with their own sadistic torture fantasies.

That said, I wouldn't shed any tears if the perpetrators got cancer.

One_Of_Shanks

Kittens, puppies, cows, horses, donkeys, foxes, badgers

It's fine to inflict cruelty upon animals in Ireland but as soon as it hits cats and dogs its no longer ok.

The things people do to foxes in this country is enough to leave you in tears but its ok because you cant see it and nobody owns them.
We're a disgrace as a nation for the way our wild animals are allowed to be mistreated.
So its sad that kittens and puppies are the only time it gets peoples attention.

Its torture every day for our wildlife.

gctest50

Foxes are dangerous, should be shot on sight whenever possible



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2276529/Fox-attacks-baby-First-picture-week-old-Denny-Dolan-finger-ripped-Bromley-home.html

One_Of_Shanks

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

The things people do to foxes in this country is enough to leave you in tears

Do they? Let me guess, you think hunt meets end by foxhounds ripping foxes to shreds?

SeanW

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's about intent, cost/benefit, and reason. The intention of killing a mouse is to protect your food from germs and your furniture etc from damage. Cats post no such risks in general. Nobody enjoys the thought of killing a mouse, it's the end result - a clean, safe house - that people want. Nobody enjoys the thought of animals being killed for food - it's the end result of eating the foot that people are after.

Killing a kitten with a firework is not about the end result, it's about enjoying watching the animal suffer. It has no benefits, unlike killing pests or food animals. The reasons for doing it are not about personal safety or hygiene - the reason is the enjoyment of suffering. And that's the problem - individuals who enjoy watching animals suffer for its own sake are vile individuals, and some of us would prefer to live in a society free from vile individuals.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Wish I could "thank" this post more than once.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

that's a very human-centred view of the world?

No, it's a matter of absolute necessity. Mice and rats are an existential threat to human civilisation, and indeed to the entire ecosystem itself. Rats are incredible harbingers of the worst diseases and extremely efficient at spreading them, and left unchecked they will start plagues. They also are attracted to human food stores so things like farms, grain silos, markets and so on must be protected from them at any cost. I don't think mice are as bad as as rats in some of these areas, but they are still a source of other extreme dangers. For example, mice must constantly chew stuff, even if they are not eating, so if they get into your house and get to, for example, electrical wiring in your attic, they might find the insulation of such wiring to be something to chew on, and the resulting damage to the electrical system could have very severe consequences up to and including a flash fire.

If vermin like rats and mice were not kept in check, they would cause carnage at both an individual and societal level. They would destroy all agriculture and cause a multitude of enormous pandemics. The destruction would not be limited to human civilisation, other animal wildlife would also be gravely threatened. When it comes to rodents, you have no choice. Either we find ways to destroy them (or at least keep them in check) or they will destroy us. It's that simple.

Ironically, cats are our best weapon here, because they are nature's best hunters of rodents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqOzTh2pjEw

So, yes, there is a very practical reason to hang someone who abuses cats while justifying the use of mousetraps against rodents - cats are our allies, while rodents are a grave threat. To everything. Cats are not just cute, purr-y and furry, they are a vital component of our natural defenses.

One_Of_Shanks

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Do they? Let me guess, you think hunt meets end by foxhounds ripping foxes to shreds?

Show me where I said that?

I'll counter by asking do you think the way foxes are treated in this country is acceptable?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36598935

LeinsterDub

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Unfortunately it's the former. Cruelty to animals is massively amplified around Halloween.

I adore fireworks and I love seeing and hearing them around my area this time of year, but it's always bittersweet knowing that some people are probably using them as torture devices against some animal which was unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Absolute scum.

Probably and some are kinds of evidence?

One_Of_Shanks

Anyway, it wasnt only hunts, I meant this sort of thing, its happening and its a far bigger disgrace than a few kittens and puppies
If only people cared more :

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36598935

gctest50

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Anyway, it wasnt only hunts, I meant this sort of thing, its happening and its a far bigger disgrace than a few kittens and puppies
If only people cared more :

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36598935

Hunting foxes with dogs etc is illegal in the UK since 2004


this is how you keep the little sheep safe :

SeanW

SeanW wrote: »

Mice and rats are an existential threat to human civilisation

Wow -- lets just pause your statement right there, and also focus on the species under discussion, mice.

You think that MICE are "an existential threat to human civilisation"

Are you aware of how preposterous a statement that is?

Even if mice represented any substantial threat to us (and the very statement is laughable), it would be an argument for their humane destruction, not the mousetraps I referred to, where they often die slow, agonising deaths by dehydration.

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

I'll counter by asking do you think the way foxes are treated in this country is acceptable?

Absolutely. Especially when they are killed by hunting to hounds. Foxhunting (to hounds) is the most humane method of destroying foxes that is practiced in this country.

One_Of_Shanks

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Absolutely. Especially when they are killed by hunting to hounds. Foxhunting (to hounds) is the most humane method of destroying foxes that is practiced in this country.

You see that vid I posted? Any opinions?

Yeah maybe you're right and its "the most humane method of destroying foxes".
But maybe we dont want our foxes destroyed.

I assume that if anything happens one of your dogs you feel a sense of loss.

So its the same for some of us when we see a fox lost.

One_Of_Shanks

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

You see that vid I posted? Any opinions?

Two opinions, enumerated as below:

1. How cruel that is
2. How irrelevant that is. It doesn't happen in kennels. It's so extraordinary that it made the BBC news.

One_Of_Shanks

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Two opinions, enumerated as below:

1. How cruel that is
2. How irrelevant that is. It doesn't happen in kennels. It's so extraordinary that it made the BBC news.

We'll agree on 1. Cruel isn't strong enough by the way.

2. Nah that can't be irrelevant.
It's so common that the BBC needed to make a piece about it.

hatrickpatrick

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

that's a very human-centred view of the world?

I'm not sure that it is of any consolation to the mouse, writhing during its agnonizing death (and often, only dying of dehydration) to know the purpose of its death.

The agony that is felt by a mouse in a traditional mousetrap is in no way mitigated by the objective of its killing. It is no more principled a killing (and in fact, quite slower) than a cat that is blown to pieces by a firework (even if that did happen).

It seems to me as though you're excusing certain human behaviours on account of the human's sensibilities, but you're not taking proper account of real pain and real suffering on behalf of those animals that are enduring it.

Neither the mouse in its trap, nor the putative cat that is attached to a firework, has any comprehension of why it is being tortured by humans. All either animal knows, is severe pain.

It is indeed a human centric view. It's more about the kind of human society one wants to live in, and personally I, along with many others, would prefer to live in one in which scumbags are not allowed to act like scumbags. Killing a kitten with a firework is symptomatic of being a horrible human being who gets pleasure from inflicting death. Simply put, those of us advocating harsh punishments would rather not share this island with that type of person, end of story. And yes, I'm sure that sounds harsh, but it is what it is. It's about personality type really at the end of the day - people with a sociopathic or psychopathic personality type are in my view a threat to everyone else's enjoyment of life, and as such I believe that heir behaviours simply shouldn't be tolerated in our legal system.

Somebody killing an animal for food is probably not doing so because they enjoy watching the animal die. Somebody who kills an animal for fun is doing so because they enjoy watching the animal die. Somebody who enjoys watching an animal die for the sake of it is somebody with a sociopathic/psychopathic personality type, and as such is the type of human I regard as persona non grata. I would advocate that society as a whole takes this approach.

My, your, and others' enjoyment of life shouldn't have to be marred by interactions with people whose specific purpose in life is to deliberately ruin our day for no reason other than their own entertainment. That applies to animals as well. People whose specific purpose in life is to ruin others' - human or otherwise - day for their own entertainment are the exact type of people who should be getting long jail sentences so that they cannot continue to ruin peoples' day for their own entertainment. The assholes referenced in this thread are most certainly in that category.

I am not suggesting that some people don't grow out of this and learn to become decent human beings. Some people have the most appalling stories of the things they did in their youths and still managed to turn out to be good people. But in the interim, once identified they should be GPS tagged, curfewed, and subject to the kinds of restrictions on movement which make it impossible for them to ruin peoples' days without getting caught and punished.

Hell, the idea of giving these f*ckers an ass-kicking is a good example of the difference. I detest violence and I would hate to be the one dispensing it. But just like I'd be willing to put my health above my hate for violence when laying a mouse-trap, I'd be willing to put my safety and the safety of others above my hate for violence when giving these guys such a solid ass kicking that they'd be too afraid to ever lay a finger on another living thing again lest they get another similarly vicious ass kicking. It's not about enjoyment, it's about achieving an end result.

SeanW

SeanW wrote: »

So, yes, there is a very practical reason to hang someone who abuses cats...

I don't think that post will be topped today for hyperbole!

Don't be silly. There will be no hanging for cat abuse, nor is there a practical reason to do so. It's a crime, it should result in penalties right up to imprisonment.

But there isn't a practical reason to introduce the death penalty for cat abuse.

MSVforever

Unfortunately these animal cruelty cases are not an urban legend..... :

http://theliberal.ie/shocking-cat-dead-after-having-firework-taped-to-its-mouth-in-co-tipperary/

http://www.irishdogs.ie/news/2010/09/17/thugs-blow-up-dog.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2918606/Sick-yobs-BLEW-dog-tying-fireworks-it.html

Sick bastrds. Total waste of oxygen. They should rot in prison until they die.

I hate Halloween. It's the most terrifying time of the year for animals. Gardai should apply a zero tolerance on fireworks. Keep your pets safe!

Son0vagun

We actually found four kittens yesterday, left them with Kitten Cottage in Virginia. Nice to think we might have saved them from this sort of thing.

Back home in the 90s a local teenager captured a cat, set fire to it and watched it run down the road ablazed. It was reported but nothing came of it. Said teenage is now partially blind and we do see him roaming the roads alone, Karmas a bitch I guess.

Wheeliebin30

I see a fire truck was attacked laat night.

Ah the youth of Ireland.

https://youtu.be/l9gMdYVQCtw

gozunda

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

...

I'll counter by asking do you think the way foxes are treated in this country is acceptable?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36598935

Just in case you havn't noticed that is not in this country and like the kitten killing that incident was been talked about exactly because it's outside what usually happens ...

It's like when any issue is brought up and someone chimes in with "will no one think of the children" in an effort of whataboutery ...

gozunda

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

that's a very human-centred view of the world?

I'm not sure that it is of any consolation to the mouse, writhing during its agnonizing death (and often, only dying of dehydration) to know the purpose of its death.

The agony that is felt by a mouse in a traditional mousetrap is in no way mitigated by the objective of its killing. It is no more principled a killing (and in fact, quite slower) than a cat that is blown to pieces by a firework (even if that did happen).

It seems to me as though you're excusing certain human behaviours on account of the human's sensibilities, but you're not taking proper account of real pain and real suffering on behalf of those animals that are enduring it.

Neither the mouse in its trap, nor the putative cat that is attached to a firework, has any comprehension of why it is being tortured by humans. All either animal knows, is severe pain.

In a thread about a cat been killed by a bunch of scrotes tying it to a banger there is a helluva lot of mice ...

I don't know what type of mousetrap you are using but the ones I've seen used kill the mouse straight out. Mouse eats cheese etc - bang traps snaps shut - and in the ones I've seen mouse is dead. May be there are cheap nasty ones that don't do this. Solution don't buy cheap mouse traps.

Mice are killed systematically because of they are classed as vermin and will damage household goods, spoil foodstuffs and may be a health risk same goes with rats.

Now I know that there were campaigns to ban the glue type mouse traps being sold in poundshops - fair enough - and live mouse traps are also now readibly avaialable everywhere.

No one here is excusing certain human behaviours on account of the human's sensibilities as far as I can see - what is being said that killing a cat minding its own business with a firework is the work of deranged psychopaths...

Hannibal_Smith

Terrlock wrote: »

They haven't reported it yet, but I just encouraged her to do so and will as soon as her daughter gets up as she's still in her room in a bad way after witnessing it.

You should report it then.

One_Of_Shanks

gozunda wrote: »

Just in case you havn't noticed that is not in this country.

The bbc bit alerted me to the fact that it wasn't within the republic alright.
I was the one who chose the link.

Animal cruelty is rife here and not enough is done about it.

Regardless of what links I can or cannot provide. Its there and it happens and you can ignore it if you want. Be the link from the UK or Wexford the point is that it happens and maybe the lack of links from ROI shows that we're not doing enough about it. People who mistreat animals dont tend to create websites.

But hey, I'll happily admit that I've taken this thread off topic somewhat.
In so far as one bit of animal cruelty leading to a discussion of a more widespread issue.
Other than that I'm comfortable with what I said and glad I highlighted it for what little good it may do.

hatrickpatrick

gozunda wrote: »

No one here is excusing certain human behaviours on account of the human's sensibilities as far as I can see - what is being said that killing a cat minding its own business with a firework is the work of deranged psychopaths...

This, exactly. And I for one advocate identifying, tagging, and restricting the movements of all such deranged psycopaths so that Ireland can become a safer and more enjoyable country for decent people to live in.

Anyone remember the screamer -> girl's hoodie video from Railway Street in Dublin from a few weeks ago, where those kids nearly blew her head off and laughed maniacally as her hood exploded in a shower of sparks? These are the types of human I am referring to. Some call them troubled, misunderstood, victims of circumstance, etc. I simply call them vile, vile not-quite-human beings who should not be free to move unrestricted around our society and menace random people in this manner. The kids who killed the cat fall into the same category. Antisocial behaviour is one of the very few issues on which I have an extremely right wing view - give them the harshest possible punishments which specifically mean that their movements are restricted such that they cannot indulge their psychopathic tendencies. House arrest, jail, curfew, GPS tagging, mental institution, I really don't care - as long as the end result is that ordinary, decent Irish people no longer have to share their cities and towns with these people.

I guarantee you that the lads who put the screamer in the girl's hoodie are "known to the Gardai", and I guarantee you that if they're not already, the kids who killed this cat will soon also be "known to the Gardai" for more serious instances of antisocial behaviour.

the beer revolu

I find some of the comments here more disturbing than the alleged actions of these kids.

Now, I'm assuming it's just hard man bluster from the safety of behind a keyboard but if it wasn't it would be truly disturbing if there really were that many vigilante types willing to torture, maim, severely beat, and kill, other human beings.

Honesty, I'd be more comfortable in a country with a tiny amount of psychopaths who torture animals than one with a large vigilante psychopath population hell bent on cleaning up the streets.

I'm glad it's all just hard woman/man bluster.

BTW, I find animal cruelty despicable.

hatrickpatrick

the beer revolu wrote: »

I find some of the comments here more disturbing than the alleged actions of these kids.

Now, I'm assuming it's just hard man bluster from the safety of behind a keyboard but if it wasn't it would be truly disturbing if there really were that many vigilante types willing to torture, maim, severely beat, and kill, other human beings.

Honesty, I'd be more comfortable in a country with a tiny amount of psychopaths who torture animals than one with a large vigilante psychopath population hell bent on cleaning up the streets.

I'm glad it's all just hard woman/man bluster.

BTW, I find animal cruelty despicable.

How do you suggest that ordinary decent Irish people protect themselves when the courts refuse to do so? Did you see the video of the woman who nearly had her head blown off after having a rocket dropped into her hood by some scumbag psychopath? If the courts won't lock him up, which we all know they won't, then how do you suggest we deter him from ever doing something like that again?

Honestly, I'm all ears. I detest violence as much as anyone, but I'm willing to sacrifice one scumbag getting the sh!t kicked out of him if it saves a non-scumbag from having a firework stuffed into their clothes, FFS.

the beer revolu

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

How do you suggest that ordinary decent Irish people protect themselves when the courts refuse to do so? Did you see the video of the woman who nearly had her head blown off after having a rocket dropped into her hood by some scumbag psychopath? If the courts won't lock him up, which we all know they won't, then how do you suggest we deter him from ever doing something like that again?

Honestly, I'm all ears. I detest violence as much as anyone, but I'm willing to sacrifice one scumbag getting the sh!t kicked out of him if it saves a non-scumbag from having a firework stuffed into their clothes, FFS.

So, are you a vigilante?
Do you go around administering justice?

I don't claim to have the answer, I just know I don't want to live in a country where vigilanteism is the answer. I'd rather put up with the level of crime and antisocial behaviour that we have.

So, you're either a vigilante or it's all bluster.

hatrickpatrick

the beer revolu wrote: »

So, are you a vigilante?
Do you go around administering justice?

I don't claim to have the answer, I just know I don't want to live in a country where vigilanteism is the answer. I'd rather put up with the level of crime and antisocial behaviour that we have.

So, you're either a vigilante or it's all bluster.

Unfortunately I have neither the necessary balls nor physical bulk to administer vigilante justice to scrotes, but I wish I did, and I absolutely commend those who do.

I don't want to live in a society in which vigilante justice is the answer either, but in this world we unfortunately deal in the lesser of two evils quite regularly. And faced with a binary choice between scumbags acting with impunity, and scumbags getting their noses broken by vigilantes and subsequently being too scared to go out hassling decent people, I'd choose the latter without a second's hesitation.

EDIT: in this video, a scumbag goes around harassing random people in Dublin for the craic and eventually gets a smack with a crepe. Do you regard the crepe smacker as unjustified?

https://streamable.com/xqtf4

lilsparkle69

Sickening to read. I'll never understand how a whole group of kids agree on doing cruel things to animals. Do none of them feel guilty or think its wrong?

So important to keep animals inside and safe around this time of year.