Catalan vote for independence

end of the road · 27-10-2017 7:50pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

I will be declaring myself as the KING OF FRANCE tonight !! 10 PM.

It's real in my head so it must be happening right ?

Catalonia is not an independent state, these far left extremists are in a minority and have ironically gone against democracy by declaring independence after an illegal vote.

Spain didn't help things with their heavy handed response to the election on October 1st.

Still doesn't change, Spain will invoke article 155 now .. and that's that!

Catalonia is going to be an independent state, these middle of the road non-extremists are in a majority and have acted democratically. the vote was just and is legitimate. Spain will indeed invoke article 155 but it won't stop catalonia becoming an independant republic.

Hector Savage · 27-10-2017 7:52pm

end of the road wrote: »

Catalonia is going to be an independent state, these middle of the road non-extremists are in a majority and have acted democratically. the vote was just and is legitimate. Spain will indeed invoke article 155 but it won't stop catalonia becoming an independant republic.

Hahaha !!
between this and your bile on the IH thread you really do talk utter utter nonsense

edit and the vote wasn't legal..

mikhail · 27-10-2017 7:53pm

I'm enjoying reading Irish people decide the Catalan people shouldn't have the right to self-determination. I trust they won't be celebrating in 2021 either.

Hector Savage · 27-10-2017 7:59pm

mikhail wrote: »

I'm enjoying reading Irish people decide the Catalan people shouldn't have the right to self-determination. I trust they won't be celebrating in 2021 either.

38% of Catalan people shouldn't decide things no ... and what about Irish people that live there ?

midlandsmissus · 27-10-2017 9:11pm

end of the road wrote: »

Catalonia is going to be an independent state, these middle of the road non-extremists are in a majority and have acted democratically. the vote was just and is legitimate. Spain will indeed invoke article 155 but it won't stop catalonia becoming an independant republic.

What it comes down to is you can't force somewhere to be somewhere it doesn't want to be.
If we all of a sudden were made to be part of England by direct rule would we take that?
Why would anyone sit down and take it?

midlandsmissus · 27-10-2017 9:14pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Not really, international media are being dishonest on the amount of blocked votes - not many people were blocked most people got to vote in the end.
Even taking the hugely exagerrated number of 700K blocked + confiscated votes it still doesnt add up to a majority.

I was speaking to people I know that voted YES as a protest to the Polices disgraceful behaviour - but they said if there is a real ref. they would vote NO, for stability.
Lots of people like this and adding the fact that people were voting multiple times , this "90%" figure is wishful thinking.

The vote back in 2014 would be more accurate, and that still fell very far from a majority - taking into account the unionists ignore these referendums for Independence people organised by independence people.

Spain though really scored an own goal with the carry on by the police on the 1st.

They should have allowed a real legal ref, the independence would have been well beaten.

So now the extreme left separatists moan about democracy, yet they just declared independence from an illegal referendum - that again the majority of people in Catalonia don't want.

I don't listen to international media actually,
I worked in Barcelona for two years, I was there last week, and my friends there have told me about protecting the schools, and police, including their own local police, seizing the ballot boxes.

Cheerful Spring · 27-10-2017 9:21pm

Civil war in Europe. Looks like there will be clash over this. Spain can't afford to lose the region they have to take it back with force.

Cheerful Spring · 27-10-2017 9:30pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Sure, but 62% of people in Catalonia don't want to separate from Spain

Says who where you get this stat?

Ulysses Gaze · 27-10-2017 9:33pm

If Spain loses Catalonia, they'll lose the Basque region as well.

This could bring the French Basques into play then. Would be interesting to see how the French would react to that. Plus the Corsicans would also like their own state.

A Euro Spring to be sure.....

Pero_Bueno · 27-10-2017 10:07pm

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I don't listen to international media actually,
I worked in Barcelona for two years, I was there last week, and my friends there have told me about protecting the schools, and police, including their own local police, seizing the ballot boxes.

I've lived her 13 years and the post you are replying to is bang on.

Zebra3 · 27-10-2017 10:12pm

Can we have a poll on whether or not Ireland should recognize the new Catalan Republic?

Shurimgreat · 28-10-2017 12:22am

midlandsmissus wrote: »

They are the wealthiest part of Spain by far.

And they use the euro.

But what happens if they stop using the euro.
Or they stop using spanish passports.
Etc etc

Forming a new country is not easy, its very hard. The Catalans think it will be a walk in the park. It won't. If they persist with this they will gradually become a pariah state that is impoverished and no one will do business with.

Whereas today they are a wealthy state which everyone will do business with. Being part of the Euro currency is massively important to the region.

The Catalan leaders are hot headed idiots with zero economic competence.

Nermal · 28-10-2017 12:30am

Hector Savage wrote: »

edit and the vote wasn't legal..

A meaningless objection. Many countries, including the most powerful one on earth, gained independence illegally. Their existence retrospectively legitimises the then 'illegal' actions that founded them.

Ubbquittious · 28-10-2017 12:31am

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And they use the euro.

But what happens if they stop using the euro.
Or they stop using spanish passports.
Etc etc

Forming a new country is not easy, its very hard. The Catalans think it will be a walk in the park. It won't. If they persist with this they will gradually become a pariah state that is impoverished and no one will do business with.

Whereas today they are a wealthy state which everyone will do business with. Being part of the Euro currency is massively important to the region.

The Catalan leaders are hot headed idiots with zero economic competence.

They don't have to become a pariah state if they don't want to. There are countries out there with only a few thousand people and they're doing just fine, a good few of them are not even in the EU. I'd say they'll be grand

I think with every independence movement there's a large lazy segment of the population who will want to cosy up to whatever big boys are ruling them and opt for the easy/stable life of having their decisions made for them but that's mostly short term thinking

suicide_circus · 28-10-2017 9:58am

The Spanish DDP is charging Carles Puigdemont with "Rebellion" which carries a maximum sentence of 30 years.Could they not have him shot in the prison courtyard and do the old blood sacrifice? Go the whole hog like.

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-10-2017 10:35am

Hector Savage wrote: »

edit and the vote wasn't legal..

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-10-2017 10:56am

How will this effect the football?

WesternZulu · 28-10-2017 11:08am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

How will this effect the football?

Barca will be the Catalan Champions for the foreseeable future.

mikhail · 28-10-2017 11:09am

Hector Savage wrote: »

38% of Catalan people shouldn't decide things no ... and what about Irish people that live there ?

You don't see the 49% in Scotland out on the streets, or unilaterally declaring independence. If the Spanish government had provided a legal route to a referendum (and 'get the law changed with a 2/3rds majority in parliament' was about as adequate an answer as 'get home rule passed in the two houses of parliament' was for us), I'd guess it'd have been solidly defeated. I'd have agreed with the result too - staying in Spain seems the smarter route.

pauliebdub · 28-10-2017 6:54pm

WesternZulu wrote: »

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

How will this effect the football?

Barca will be the Catalan Champions for the foreseeable future.

Lleida Esportiu might have something to say about that ðŸ˜„

v638sg7k1a92bx · 28-10-2017 7:06pm

mikhail wrote: »

I'm enjoying reading Irish people decide the Catalan people shouldn't have the right to self-determination. I trust they won't be celebrating in 2021 either.

Self determination doesn't apply to the people Catalonia.

Shurimgreat · 31-10-2017 3:24pm

Sounds to me like the Catalonia separatist leaders are not the brightest. An Independent Catalonia led by these fools would be a disaster.

Zebra3 · 31-10-2017 3:46pm

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Sounds to be like the Catalonia separatist leaders are not the brightest. An Independent Catalonia led by these fools would be a disaster.

Yeh because Spain has been flourishing over the last decade.....

Kivaro · 31-10-2017 3:47pm

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Sounds to be like the Catalonia separatist leaders are not the brightest. An Independent Catalonia led by these fools would be a disaster.

Unless their intent was to be 'martyrs for the cause'.

midlandsmissus · 31-10-2017 5:06pm

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Sounds to be like the Catalonia separatist leaders are not the brightest. An Independent Catalonia led by these fools would be a disaster.

And yet Catalonia was flourishing.

I have travelled around Spain, and been in parts where people are working 14 hours per day for tiny money, with no rights. And then I went to Barcelona where the average salary seemed to be 50000 a year, and it has so many giants of technical companies there.

I wonder how they got so wealthy and the rest of spain got so poor.

topper75 · 31-10-2017 5:09pm

Hard to understand the EU at the best of times but they have excelled themselves in absurdity here.

Slovenes - good, heroic. Tough luck Serbs, hands off these plucky go-it-aloners.
Catalans - destabilizing, bad. Madrid to manage this - nobody interfere.

????

Didn't like the cut of their yellow and red stripey jib obviously.

Shurimgreat · 31-10-2017 5:10pm

midlandsmissus wrote: »

And yet Catalonia was flourishing.

I have travelled around Spain, and been in parts where people are working 14 hours per day for tiny money, with no rights. And then I went to Barcelona where the average salary seemed to be 50000 a year, and it has so many giants of technical companies there.

I wonder how they got so wealthy and the rest of spain got so poor.

It seems to be the industrial centre of Spain. Also has huge tourism numbers, property investors, cruise ships leaving from there, etc. It has a lot going for it alright.

But its pointless being an industrial centre if you aren't able to trade or use the currency of the rest of Europe.

Many of those leading the charge for independence are from the far left who hate capitalism and wealth creation. You'd soon see Catalonia go down the tubes if they were in charge. They stirred up anti Madrid feelings. Catalonia as an independent state has no future. There'd be mass unemployment as all the major companies left and the tourists stopped coming.

super_furry · 31-10-2017 5:13pm

Honestly don’t think that the Spanish government could be making more of a mess of this whole issue.

From the start, they should have let the vote go ahead and just say that ‘while we make note of it, we do not recognise it as a legal referendum’, which of course it wasn’t. Do that and the story starts and ends there.

Instead they send in the storm-troopers, beat old women over the head, have the horrible visual of riot police seizing ballot boxes and create so much more sympathy towards the independence cause.

If someone had sent Rajoy a book on where the Brits went wrong in Ireland, a step by step guide, he could not have followed it better.

Shurimgreat · 31-10-2017 5:13pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yeh because Spain has been flourishing over the last decade.....

I saw this morning someone raising the prospect that Catalonia could use Bitcoins instead of Euros for its new currency.
It goes from bad to worse. You can't even get bitcoins from an ATM.
Tourists would have to change all their money into Bitcoins to shop there.
Its laughable.
Fair enough if they had a proper plan for independence. But they don't. They are a joke.

Ipso · 31-10-2017 5:16pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So how will a Catalan government decide what is legal?

Catalan vote for independence

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