Catalan vote for independence

drdeadlift

Whats everyones take on this?

I think spain messed up with the heavy handed tactics.

Fair play to them,and good luck forming a country,wouldnt think thats too easy.

Shurimgreat

Its a rash and hot headed move. They haven't thought it through properly. When unemployment rises in Catalonia they might regret it.

They won't be able to use the Euro for a start as technically they won't be part of the EU. So how then will the banks operate and how will large scale industry trade or pay wages?

Stupid short-sighted move brought about by hot headed nationalists.

Ubbquittious

I wish 'em the best of luck. Hopefully they won't feel the need to join the EU either

granturismo

drdeadlift wrote: »

Whats everyones take on this?

...

Too many threads already.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057792731&page=30

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057796174&page=3

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057687650

midlandsmissus

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its a rash and hot headed move. They haven't thought it through properly. When unemployment rises in Catalonia they might regret it.

They won't be able to use the Euro for a start as technically they won't be part of the EU. So how then will the banks operate and how will large scale industry trade or pay wages?

Stupid short-sighted move brought about by hot headed nationalists.

They are the wealthiest part of Spain by far.

Dravokivich

midlandsmissus wrote: »

They are the wealthiest part of Spain by far.

Only does you for so long. There seems to be reports of businesses looking to get out, due to the lack of stability there.

Roger_007

Is this another embassy we will have to open? I wouldn't mind being ambassador to Catalonia? Where do I apply?

Beta Ray Bill

drdeadlift wrote: »

Whats everyones take on this?

I think spain messed up with the heavy handed tactics.

Fair play to them,and good luck forming a country,wouldnt think thats too easy.

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

You'd be in full support of that?
Despite the devastating economical effect it would have on the rest of the country?

Carles Puigdemont is a f**king idiot!
He blames all of Catalonias problems on the rest of Spain.

He's basically the Nigel Farage of Spain except worse.
Spain has facilitated and facilitated this guy for years now but he's still not happy.
Now he declared independence from Spain, that's effectively Treason and carries a penalty of life imprisonment in Spain. (which he should get IMO)
Not to mention barely half the population of Catalonia voted in favour of independence.

They all think they are just going to keep there access to the EU.
I cannot believe they don't realise the EU will punish them as best they can if they do manage to form another country.

Donald Trump

I hate cats

But even with all my hatred, if I had one, I wouldn't subject him to being called Alan

DrumSteve

grahambo wrote: »

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

You'd be in full support of that?
Despite the devastating economical effect it would have on the rest of the country?

Carles Puigdemont is a f**king idiot!
He blames all of Catalonias problems on the rest of Spain.

He's basically the Nigel Farage of Spain except worse.
Spain has facilitated and facilitated this guy for years now but he's still not happy.
Now he declared independence from Spain, that's effectively Treason and carries a penalty of life imprisonment in Spain. (which he should get IMO)
Not to mention barely half the population of Catalonia voted in favour of independence.

They all think they are just going to keep there access to the EU.
I cannot believe they don't realise the EU will punish them as best they can if they do manage to form another country.

I think Rajoy's response effectively backed them into a corner. If anyone in that government offered a softer tone and didn't send in the heavies they would not have had to go down this road IMO.

Arghus

It seems crazy that it's got to this point, on both sides.

Donal55

grahambo wrote: »

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

You'd be in full support of that?
Despite the devastating economical effect it would have on the rest of the country?

Carles Puigdemont is a f**king idiot!
He blames all of Catalonias problems on the rest of Spain.

He's basically the Nigel Farage of Spain except worse.
Spain has facilitated and facilitated this guy for years now but he's still not happy.
Now he declared independence from Spain, that's effectively Treason and carries a penalty of life imprisonment in Spain. (which he should get IMO)
Not to mention barely half the population of Catalonia voted in favour of independence.

They all think they are just going to keep there access to the EU.
I cannot believe they don't realise the EU will punish them as best they can if they do manage to form another country.

Maybe if the other half got off their arses and voted they wouldn't have this problem. I heard the same excuses following Trump's election and Brexit. All the whingers saying 'barely half the country voted', and organising online petitions.
No one to blame but themselves.

wes

grahambo wrote: »

They all think they are just going to keep there access to the EU.
I cannot believe they don't realise the EU will punish them as best they can if they do manage to form another country.

EU won't punish them. They simply won't be a member, and Spain will veto them joining if they try to.

midlandsmissus

grahambo wrote: »

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

You'd be in full support of that?
Despite the devastating economical effect it would have on the rest of the country?

Carles Puigdemont is a f**king idiot!
He blames all of Catalonias problems on the rest of Spain.

He's basically the Nigel Farage of Spain except worse.
Spain has facilitated and facilitated this guy for years now but he's still not happy.
Now he declared independence from Spain, that's effectively Treason and carries a penalty of life imprisonment in Spain. (which he should get IMO)
Not to mention barely half the population of Catalonia voted in favour of independence.

They all think they are just going to keep there access to the EU.
I cannot believe they don't realise the EU will punish them as best they can if they do manage to form another country.

The difference is: Spain have treated Catalonia badly in the past. Suppressing their language and culture for a long time under dictator Franco. So why should they stay with Spain?

Kivaro

grahambo wrote: »

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

You'd be in full support of that?

You'd be surprised how much of this country would support that.
Many of us are fed up with the liberal loonies there.

How can we make this happen?

Beta Ray Bill

DrumSteve wrote: »

I think Rajoy's response effectively backed them into a corner. If anyone in that government offered a softer tone and didn't send in the heavies they would not have had to go down this road IMO.

I think Puigdemont intention was to declare independence this year not matter what was offered. So heavy handed or not, I think they'd still be in the same place.

Donal55 wrote: »

Maybe if the other half got off their arses and voted they wouldn't have this problem. I heard the same excuses following Trump's election and Brexit. All the whingers saying 'barely half the country voted', and organising online petitions.
No one to blame but themselves.

It was an illegal vote wasn't it? wasn't sanctioned by the government of Spain.
Other half did the right thing in not voting IMO

wes wrote: »

EU won't punish them. They simply won't be a member, and Spain will veto them joining if they try to.

In my eyes that amounts to punishment (IE out of the EU and cannot join plus a border) their wealth will vanish fairly quickly me thinks

Donald Trump

Kivaro wrote: »

You'd be surprised how much of this country would support that.
Many of us are fed up with the liberal loonies there.

How can we make this happen?

Any chance we can build a big beautiful wall around cork and tell them to feck off

Hitman3000

Shurimgreat wrote:

They won't be able to use the Euro for a start as technically they won't be part of the EU. So how then will the banks operate and how will large scale industry trade or pay wages?

They will be able to use the Euro.

pauliebdub

It will be a disaster for them, nobody will recognise it as it was an illegal referendum to begin with. Businesses will leave the region, they will be outside the EU and it will go into decline.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Shurimgreat wrote: »

They won't be able to use the Euro for a start as technically they won't be part of the EU.

Montenegro and Andorra use the Euro, neither of whom are in the EU.

bladespin

grahambo wrote: »

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

You'd be in full support of that?

I'm down with that, where do we sign up?

Hitman3000

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote:

Montenegro and Andorra use the Euro, neither of whom are in the EU.

Also San Marino and the Vatican.

topper75

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Stupid short-sighted move brought about by hot headed nationalists.

We are talking here about centuries of separation in language, culture, and economic progress.

I don't think the term 'hot-headed' applies there.

It wasn't 'brought about' by anybody of late. It always was.

A Little Pony

grahambo wrote: »

drdeadlift wrote: »

Whats everyones take on this?

I think spain messed up with the heavy handed tactics.

Fair play to them,and good luck forming a country,wouldnt think thats too easy.

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

You'd be in full support of that?
Despite the devastating economical effect it would have on the rest of the country?

Carles Puigdemont is a f**king idiot!
He blames all of Catalonias problems on the rest of Spain.

He's basically the Nigel Farage of Spain except worse.
Spain has facilitated and facilitated this guy for years now but he's still not happy.
Now he declared independence from Spain, that's effectively Treason and carries a penalty of life imprisonment in Spain. (which he should get IMO)
Not to mention barely half the population of Catalonia voted in favour of independence.

They all think they are just going to keep there access to the EU.
I cannot believe they don't realise the EU will punish them as best they can if they do manage to form another country.

Farage helped lead a campaign to get the UK out of the EU via a legitimate referendum. This guy didn't do that.

wes

grahambo wrote: »

In my eyes that amounts to punishment (IE out of the EU and cannot join plus a border) their wealth will vanish fairly quickly me thinks

Well, they effectively chosen to leave the club. One of the consequences of independence is they are no longer a member, and Spain has always made it clear they would veto Catalonia joining.

I would think best if they could join, but Spain will never let it happen.

Beta Ray Bill

midlandsmissus wrote: »

The difference is: Spain have treated Catalonia badly in the past. Suppressing their language and culture for a long time under dictator Franco. So why should they stay with Spain?

Franco was no Saint, but he wasn't the Devil either.
He was very Nationalist, ultimately his goal was preservation of Spain and Spanish identity.
He helped the Nazi's (Only cause he thought they'd win and didn't want to be invaded)
He also kept the Communists out of Spain, a country they were most likely to get a foot hold in post WW2/Cold war.

Also bare in mind that was nearly 50 years ago, he left office in 1970 right?

Kivaro wrote: »

You'd be surprised how much of this country would support that.
Many of us are fed up with the liberal loonies there.

How can we make this happen?

Donald Trump wrote: »

Any chance we can build a big beautiful wall around cork and tell them to feck off

bladespin wrote: »

I'm down with that, where do we sign up?

Will you three give over!!!! :D:D

Edgarfrndly

grahambo wrote: »

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

Can we stop with this false equivalence nonsense? Catalonia has its own distinct language, culture and political autonomy. It meets all the criteria of a "nation". There's no difference between Meath and Tipperary or Kildare and Cork in any pragmatic sense.

grahambo wrote: »

You'd be in full support of that?
Despite the devastating economical effect it would have on the rest of the country?

I'm in support of democracy from the bottom up. The people of Catalonia voted in favour of independence. Personally, I'd like to see the referendum re-run with Spain's support - with a 12 month window for public debates, education and emotional decisions to be replaced by informed and rational ones.

If the people of Catalonia still a year from now vote for independence, then they should be afforded it.

grahambo wrote: »

Carles Puigdemont is a f**king idiot!
He blames all of Catalonias problems on the rest of Spain.

Complete red herring. It's the people as a whole who vote.

grahambo wrote: »

Now he declared independence from Spain, that's effectively Treason and carries a penalty of life imprisonment in Spain. (which he should get IMO)
Not to mention barely half the population of Catalonia voted in favour of independence.

Spain left him with no choice. They obstructed a democratic vote, and threatened to remove autonomy.

Personally I have no feelings either way on whether Catalonia should be independent. But it's easy to be sympathetic to the Catalan people after how Spain reacted - battering people for taking part in a democratic vote.

oppenheimer1

The central government will end this fairly quickly. Since they will be in charge of the Catalan treasury, they will simply withhold wages from civil servants that refuse to follow instructions. A week or two of chaos in Catalonia will only harm Catalonia.

The Spanish state will dismantle all the nation like institutions of Catalonia before handing it back for new elections. This declaration may set back real independence by decades.

But I suppose events could over take everything, who knows what will happen. The only great concern I have is that Ireland has securely hitched it's wagon to the EU train, damage to European institutions will have major consequences for us.

LordSutch

MAIN CATALAN THREAD IS HERE > > > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057792731

This thread should merge or be closed.

Kivaro

LordSutch wrote: »

MAIN CATALAN THREAD IS HERE > > > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057792731

This thread should merge or be closed.

Yes, Mariano Rajoy, we will do exactly as you say.

Feck off by the way.

Beta Ray Bill

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Can we stop with this false equivalence nonsense? Catalonia has its own distinct language, culture and political autonomy. It meets all the criteria of a "nation". There's no difference between Meath and Tipperary or Kildare and Cork in any pragmatic sense.

Kind of true, they have Autonomy but only because Spain gave it to them.
I don't think they speak the Catalan language anymore (Maybe i rural areas or in homes) Influx and migration of people within Spain mean the culture has blended some what.

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

I'm in support of democracy from the bottom up. The people of Catalonia voted in favour of independence. Personally, I'd like to see the referendum re-run with Spain's support - with a 12 month window for public debates, education and emotional decisions to be replaced by informed and rational ones.

I agree with you, Spain should have embraced the Vote the way the UK did with the Scottish independence Vote.

diomed

It should liven up the next Barcalona v Real Madrid match.

Beta Ray Bill

diomed wrote: »

It should liven up the next Barcalona v Real Madrid match.

Ya know that could actually swing it in favour of the Spanish Government.

Effectively, Barcelona FC would be out of the Spanish league, and no one in Barcelona would want that, Soccer is very close to the heart over there!.

Kivaro

I'm sure other pro-independence regions of Europe are watching events unfold attentively.

With Lombardy and Veneto in Italy only last week voting in favour of greater autonomy from Rome, the secessionist movements in these regions will become more empowered if Catalonia becomes independent or close to it.

midlandsmissus

grahambo wrote: »

Kind of true, they have Autonomy but only because Spain gave it to them.
I don't think they speak the Catalan language anymore (Maybe i rural areas or in homes) Influx and migration of people within Spain mean the culture has blended some what.



I agree with you, Spain should have embraced the Vote the way the UK did with the Scottish independence Vote.

Everyone speaks Catalan there. It is their first language.
I was in Barcelona last week and they couldn't believe we didn't fight to use the Irish language in day to day life. It's interesting

A Little Pony

Kivaro wrote: »

I'm sure other pro-independence regions of Europe are watching events unfold attentively.  

With Lombardy and Veneto in Italy only last week voting in favour of greater autonomy from Rome, the secessionist movements in these regions will become more empowered if Catalonia becomes independent or close to it.

The EU falling apart... :angel:

Irish Praetorian

A Little Pony wrote: »

The EU falling apart... :angel:

Might be a little premature to call that...

Nevertheless, this turn of events I find fascinating - it's a declaration of independence in the style of the United States or even this country. But the big question is whether or not a pampered Western society like Catalonia has the stomach to fight for it's independence.

ardinn

grahambo wrote: »

Seriously?

So for example if Northern Leinster (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth) decided:
Ya know what, we've had it with the areas of the country that aren't are rich and prosperous as us, so we're gonna form our own country and tell the others to get stuffed

Can Carlow Come??? Dont leave us here with Cork people!!!

munsterlegend

grahambo wrote: »

Ya know that could actually swing it in favour of the Spanish Government.

Effectively, Barcelona FC would be out of the Spanish league, and no one in Barcelona would want that, Soccer is very close to the heart over there!.

Not a chance they would be in different leagues. Sure Welsh teams play in the English leagues and Derry city play in our league.

Guy:Incognito

Hitman3000 wrote: »

and the Vatican.

I thought they dealt exclusively in hoarded gold and jewels?

Guy:Incognito

LordSutch wrote: »

MAIN CATALAN THREAD IS HERE > > > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057792731

This thread should merge or be closed.

It's a breakaway thread

A Little Pony

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The EU falling apart... :angel:

Might be a little premature to call that...

Nevertheless, this turn of events I find fascinating - it's a declaration of independence in the style of the United States or even this country. But the big question is whether or not a pampered Western society like Catalonia has the stomach to fight for it's independence.

If you love history it is fantastic!

Hitman3000

Guy:Incognito wrote:

I thought they dealt exclusively in hoarded gold and jewels?

The miracle of the jewels to Euro, much like the water to wine story .

begbysback

Does this mean we need to change to pasaeta's again when traveling?

Edgarfrndly

grahambo wrote: »

Kind of true, they have Autonomy but only because Spain gave it to them.
I don't think they speak the Catalan language anymore (Maybe i rural areas or in homes) Influx and migration of people within Spain mean the culture has blended some what.

Catalan is spoken everywhere in Catalonia. It has millions of speakers.

Hitman3000

Guy:Incognito wrote:

It's a breakaway thread

'llibertat'

Hitman3000

begbysback wrote:

Does this mean we need to change to pasaeta's again when traveling?

Nope.

Kivaro

ardinn wrote: »

Can Carlow Come??? Dont leave us here with Cork people!!!

Wait .............
There's a place in Ireland called Carlow?

What county is it in?

ardinn

Kivaro wrote: »

Wait .............
There's a place in Ireland called Carlow?

What county is it in?

It's in yore ma!

Hector Savage

I will be declaring myself as the KING OF FRANCE tonight !! 10 PM.

It's real in my head so it must be happening right ?

Catalonia is not an independent state, these far left extremists are in a minority and have ironically gone against democracy by declaring independence after an illegal vote.

Spain didn't help things with their heavy handed response to the election on October 1st.

Still doesn't change, Spain will invoke article 155 now .. and that's that!

Hitman3000

Hector Savage wrote:

Spain will invoke article 155 now .. and that's that!

Sincerely doubt it.... the Catalans are a proud people.