Andre Ward

boxer.fan

I always had a great appreciation for Andre Ward's skill & ability in the same way I had for mayweather & still do for Rigondeaux & Lomachenko.
I have no issue with him stepping away from the game at 33, however there is something about his career that seems left behind. He could have been greater than great, if you know what I mean?
Had he been more active he might have put on many more displays of brilliance & put himself down as an ATG without any doubt whatsoever.

I loved the way he owned the Super Six tournament. That was great for boxing. That period was what made him. He fought some tough boxers at that time, Froch, Kessler, Abraham, & even Bika.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

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Thanks for pointing that out. That makes us both correct now.

Joe Musashi

Tried to break a contract he signed when his promoter was on his deathbed. Bad guy. Never liked his style or fouling.

Sebastian Dangerfield

nacho libre wrote: »

Contrast his attitude, with the likes of Mayweather, Triple G who never stepped up to take on a dangerous foe.

Off topic I know, but I never understand why this is thrown at Mayweather consistently, but not others like Pacquiao. Floyd fought De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton and Shane Mosley before Manny did. He took on a prime Canelo at 36 years old and schooled him. Manny fought Marquez twice after Floyd did, so Floyd could hardly be accused of picking his time if Manny is not.

I'm not a huge fan of Mayweather, but this comment seems to have grown arms and legs over the years IMO.

As for GGG, who is it that he is supposed to have ducked?

Morrison J

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

nacho libre wrote: »

Contrast his attitude, with the likes of Mayweather, Triple G who never stepped up to take on a dangerous foe.

Off topic I know, but I never understand why this is thrown at Mayweather consistently, but not others like Pacquiao. Floyd fought De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton and Shane Mosley before Manny did. He took on a prime Canelo at 36 years old and schooled him. Manny fought Marquez twice after Floyd did, so Floyd could hardly be accused of picking his time if Manny is not.

I'm not a huge fan of Mayweather, but this comment seems to have grown arms and legs over the years IMO.

As for GGG, who is it that he is supposed to have ducked?

Your giving Manny no credit for the Morales and Barrera wins which are probably his best wins.

Manny's best wins > Floyd's best wins. Easy.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Morrison J wrote: »

Your giving Manny no credit for the Morales and Barrera wins which are probably his best wins.

Manny's best wins > Floyd's best wins. Easy.

Oh I am, and I'm not debating your last point. But it's not the one I'm making - the post said that Floyd didn't step up to take big fights. I disagree with that

Morrison J

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

Your giving Manny no credit for the Morales and Barrera wins which are probably his best wins.

Manny's best wins > Floyd's best wins. Easy.

Oh I am, and I'm not debating your last point. But it's not the one I'm making - the post said that Floyd didn't step up to take big fights. I disagree with that

He definitely took big fights but on his own terms. Takes some of the shine away for me personally.

Joe Musashi

Perhaps the only watchable fight Ward was in was the first Kovalev fight. Other than that I cannot think of one worth watching or being in any way enjoyable.

Burial.

Froch fight was a brilliant clinic. Dawson fight was very entertaining. Recently the Barrera fight was a very good scrap.

megadodge

Burial. wrote: »

Froch fight was a brilliant clinic. Dawson fight was very entertaining. Recently the Barrera fight was a very good scrap.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose, but I'd have to discount the Dawson fight purely because of having a longtime light-heavy come down to 12stone had Dawson looking so weak from the moment he stepped into the ring, it can't be regarded as a legitimate win over a fully functional fighter.

Burial.

Meh Dawson wanted it at 168, IIRC he's the one who called out Ward and wanted his belts...and I definitely remember him saying he'd make 168 no problem...it was only after getting destroyed that he made the whole draining excuse. Ward was the favourite but nobody expected him to batter Dawson like he did. I mean Manny got his props when De La Hoya was a corpse with supposedly fresh needle marks on his arm from IV on fight night. The win against Canelo is lauded as one of Floyd's best nights but everyone knew Canelo making weight was touch and go. Once again I feel people just do anything to discredit Ward. Dawson was top 10 p4p at the time as well. Would 172 catchweight been better of course but Dawson wanted the fight at 168 for a crack at Ward's belts.

megadodge

Burial. wrote: »

Meh Dawson wanted it at 168, IIRC he's the one who called out Ward and wanted his belts...and I definitely remember him saying he'd make 168 no problem...it was only after getting destroyed that he made the whole draining excuse. Ward was the favourite but nobody expected him to batter Dawson like he did. I mean Manny got his props when De La Hoya was a corpse with supposedly fresh needle marks on his arm from IV on fight night. The win against Canelo is lauded as one of Floyd's best nights but everyone knew Canelo making weight was touch and go. Once again I feel people just do anything to discredit Ward. Dawson was top 10 p4p at the time as well. Would 172 catchweight been better of course but Dawson wanted the fight at 168 for a crack at Ward's belts.

I watched that fight live and I remember noticing that Dawson looked terrible from the very beginning. It was one of the most obvious weight-drains I've seen personally.

It's ironic that I'm being accused of trying to discredit Ward when only a few posts back I was highlighting that very point myself and the poster who was caught lying while trying to discredit Ward actually thanked your post! Bizarre.

I rate Ward highly even though his style really didn't do it for me. All his other wins (except Kovalev II) are fine by me.

walshb

I thank many posts.

Thanked not necessarily because I agree with them, but because I may admire their effort to debate and argue and give their version.

Burial's post above deserved thanks because he put up a good argument.

My views are very simple...Ward had a very good career.

I simply do not get the kind of OTT credit for facing SK. It was just another fight between two of the best men who are very similar in size and who both were competing in the same weight class.

You went off on tangents trying to argue that or disagree with it, when in reality there is nothing to really disagree with.

This throwing around accusations of posters lying. FFS..nobody is lying here, and it's not a nice thing to be accused of in the wrong.

walshb

My views on Ward the person.. he comes across very well. Sincere, genuine and normal so to speak. Nothing contrived or deliberately controversial.

Burial.

megadodge wrote: »

I watched that fight live and I remember noticing that Dawson looked terrible from the very beginning. It was one of the most obvious weight-drains I've seen personally.

It's ironic that I'm being accused of trying to discredit Ward when only a few posts back I was highlighting that very point myself and the poster who was caught lying while trying to discredit Ward actually thanked your post! Bizarre.

I rate Ward highly even though his style really didn't do it for me. All his other wins (except Kovalev II) are fine by me.

Not pointing figures at you or anyone here in particular but in general people tend to discredit that win against Dawson is what I said. Was it an ideal win, no but it's a very impressive win and people should give it its props given Floyd and Manny got huge props for their wins and nobody disputes them. Double standards if ya ask me. Again not pointing fingers at any of ye lads. As far as Boxing fans go the regs on this forum are the cream of the crop as far as I am concerned.

Burial.

walshb wrote: »

My views on Ward the person.. he comes across very well. Sincere, genuine and normal so to speak. Nothing contrived or deliberately controversial.

Yeah I think he's an absolute gent and very calculated when he speaks. This thing of him being cocky and arrogant and it grates people I don't really get either. The man hasn't been beaten (whether you think he has or not, by the books he hasn't) since he was a teen... He has a gifted mind for Boxing and he has great physical attributes. Olympic gold, cleared out 168 with relative ease...He's every right to run his mouth like Floyd tbh as he backed it up time and time again. Maybe people don't like him trying to play the hero and the villain at times which is understandable I guess but still a little puzzling.

walshb

Burial. wrote: »

Not pointing figures at you or anyone here in particular but in general people tend to discredit that win against Dawson is what I said. Was it an ideal win, no but it's a very impressive win and people should give it its props given Floyd and Manny got huge props for their wins and nobody disputes them. Double standards if ya ask me. Again not pointing fingers at any of ye lads. As far as Boxing fans go the regs on this forum are the cream of the crop as far as I am concerned.

Well said. No need for any of us to be getting personal/swiping..

And I know, I can be guilty of it at times.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

I thank many posts.

Thanked not necessarily because I agree with them, but because I may admire their effort to debate and argue and give their version.

Burial's post above deserved thanks because he put up a good argument.

My views are very simple...Ward had a very good career.

I simply do not get the kind of OTT credit for facing SK. It was just another fight between two of the best men who are very similar in size and who both were competing in the same weight class.

You went off on tangents trying to argue that or disagree with it, when in reality there is nothing to really disagree with.

This throwing around accusations of posters lying. FFS..nobody is lying here, and it's not a nice thing to be accused of in the wrong.

Ward really is a LHW boiled down to 168 lbs

That's a lie.

He fought in a division that was pretty much his natural division [light heavy]

That's a lie.

Ward had several bouts during his early career above 168

That's a lie.

All there in black and white.


The funny thing is I agree with most of your overall points about him, but don't try pulling the wool over people's eyes and complaining when you're called out on it.

walshb

Read up on what a lie is..

I am not lying...a liar is a nasty label. It implies a sneaky and deceptive person, who deliberately makes a statement knowing it to be false but intending it to be believed to others.

Saying something that is a view or an opinion that may not be true does not automatically make it a lie, or someone a liar. Same way people can make genuine errors or mistakes that does not make them liars. We all can do this. No issue with anyone calling me out on anything they disagree with or question. I do draw the line at being accused of lying.

And I don't appreciate the term being flung my way.

Leaving this now.

Maravilla33

nacho libre wrote: »

Contrast his attitude, with the likes of Mayweather, Triple G who never stepped up to take on a dangerous foe.

I was saying earlier in the thread that I gave Ward big credit for stepping up to fight Kovalev but the Mayweather comment is BS. Who did you want him to fight? He was champ at super feather and ended up fighting Oscar and Canelo up at light middle winning belts in several divisions along the way. He's not exactly a big guy so deserves just as much credit for fighting someone like Canelo.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Read up on what a lie is..

I am not lying...a liar is a nasty label. It implies a sneaky and deceptive person, who deliberately makes a statement knowing it to be false but intending it to be believed to others.

Saying something that is a view or an opinion that may not be true does not automatically make it a lie, or someone a liar. Same way people can make genuine errors or mistakes that does not make them liars. We all can do this. No issue with anyone calling me out on anything they disagree with or question. I do draw the line at being accused of lying.

And I don't appreciate the term being flung my way.

Leaving this now.

Hey mods, I think Enda Kenny just hacked into Walshb's Boards account.

walshb

Maravilla33 wrote: »

I was saying earlier in the thread that I gave Ward big credit for stepping up to fight Kovalev but the Mayweather comment is BS. Who did you want him to fight? He was champ at super feather and ended up fighting Oscar and Canelo up at light middle winning belts in several divisions along the way. He's not exactly a big guy so deserves just as much credit for fighting someone like Canelo.

I agree. As much as I have praised and questioned and criticized Floyd, I think his career clearly shows more depth and variation than Ward’s.

nacho libre

Maravilla33 wrote: »

I was saying earlier in the thread that I gave Ward big credit for stepping up to fight Kovalev but the Mayweather comment is BS. Who did you want him to fight? He was champ at super feather and ended up fighting Oscar and Canelo up at light middle winning belts in several divisions along the way. He's not exactly a big guy so deserves just as much credit for fighting someone like Canelo.

I give him credit for beating Canelo, but it was fought on his terms. I would like to have seen him really step up and be out of his comfort zone.

boxer.fan

nacho libre wrote: »

I give him credit for beating Canelo, but it was fought on his terms. I would like to have seen him really step up and be out of his comfort zone.

Sure didn't he step up & fight the Notorious

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

I give him credit for beating Canelo, but it was fought on his terms. I would like to have seen him really step up and be out of his comfort zone.

The 152 weight was a good move alright, and Floyd would have us believe that they didn't demand this. But you can bet they did. Canelo already struggling hard to make 154, and then he has to drop to 152.

Maravilla33

nacho libre wrote: »

Maravilla33 wrote: »

I was saying earlier in the thread that I gave Ward big credit for stepping up to fight Kovalev but the Mayweather comment is BS. Who did you want him to fight? He was champ at super feather and ended up fighting Oscar and Canelo up at light middle winning belts in several divisions along the way. He's not exactly a big guy so deserves just as much credit for fighting someone like Canelo.

I give him credit for beating Canelo, but it was fought on his terms. I would like to have seen him really step up and be out of his comfort zone.

Don't forget he used to be a super feather weight. I find it hard to agree with you praising Ward for moving a few lbs up to fight Kovalev and then criticise Mayweather for not moving up and testing himself. He properly went through the weights and whether you think he may have taken the easy route sometimes he was a proper weight hopper. I think sometimes he was a victim of his own ability and made some guys look like easier match ups than they were. 

I'm waffling on but in summary both Ward and Mayweather deserve credit.