Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157416#Comment_121157416

He really had his favorites who could do no wrong. Brendan Kealy won an All-Star in 2015 yet never played a championship again after that. Ronan Shanahan played well in the league yet come championship he'd go back to the likes of Fitzgerald and Mark Griffin.

It was with Kenmare U21 Sean O Shea wasn't left play. But they were in a county final i can't remmeber if they won it or not.

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157416#Comment_121157416

Id certainly agree that some of the personnel and in-game decisions during Eamons time were frustrating and difficult to understand, that semi final loss to Mayo in 2017 stands out in that regard. The whole team and sideline seemed to collectively lose the head during the replay.

Re bringing new players in I’m not sure the younger lads were ready before he brought them in to the team in 2018. It takes time to get up to speed at senior level and they were getting blown off the ball in training when they came in to the panel by all accounts. And let’s face it, the great young players he was supposedly holding back have hardly dominated the game since. They have one all Ireland under two managers in the post Fitzmaurice era, and it’s very fair to ask whether we would we even have that if Dublin weren’t so weakened when we played them in the 2022 semi?I find it hard to believe that same group would have moved the needle in 2016/17 when they were much younger.

As for making the Dublin team by not bringing in new players, come off it! Who was there from 2013 onwards that wasn’t getting game time but could have made a significant difference? The players just weren’t there.

In terms of giving lads long careers now, who should be dropped and who should be brought in instead? Are we seriously to believe that there is a conveyor belt of top class young talent being held back? Bear in mind that the lads in the team have contested the last two All Ireland finals. I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that the best players are in there, and they just fell short this year.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157675#Comment_121157675

Yes, they are decisions we all found difficult to make sense of and I’m not defending them. That said, Eamon was getting dogs abuse by the end of his tenure and was almost hounded out of the job for the people’s choice Peter Keane who was shown up to be completely out of his depth once Donie Buckley left the coaching setup. Peter doesn’t get anywhere near the same level of scrutiny despite some very questionable results. If Eamon had lost that game against Cork in 2020 he’d have had to leave the country.

Eamon gave a lot to Kerry football as a player and later as manager and I find the dislike that many Kerry supporters have for him to be a bit odd personally. His time really wasn’t as bad as some people remember and I think we should cut him some slack at this stage.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121162033#Comment_121162033

imo he should have gone after 2016 as it was clear he couldn't take the mosve the team on anymore.

At the same time the CB have to take the blame. In the late 2000's i think they just assumed Sean Geaney would take the senior job after Pat O Shea finished. When he didn't there was no back up plan and a string of very poor appointments at under age. John Kennedy who had a poor record at minor level was given the U21 when he shouldn't have, although i did find out the CB had to beg him to take the job as he didn't actually want it. Again poor planning from the CB. The less said about Darragh O Se with the U21s the better! It was the same at minor level with Pat O Driscoll having a poor record and in reality Micky Ned O Sullivan was never going to move on to the U21 job at the time. But the truth is Fitzmaurice was landed into the job but it doen't excuse some of the calls he made during his time in charge.

Poor_old_gill

Some of the appointments at underage level throughout the 00s and early 10s were horrendous and were just a jobs for the boys approach.

On Fitzmaurice- I would after that he probably should have gone before he did but the thing with Fitz was that the players loved him so it was a hard decision to take.

On Peter Keane- I agree that he was massively out of his depth and let’s just say that the admiration that players had for Fitz was very much not extended to Keane.

Say what you want about Jack but the players love him and thats a big part of the job

kerryjack

I just think Dublin got there **** together and were just too good for us, they have serious numbers, serious resources and really hit a purple patch that killed us. We went close to them 15 and 19 and again this year but just not good enough simple as that.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182072#Comment_121182072

Under 21/20 has long been the issue and the people who got the jobs tell their own story.

I think the ''players loving him'' was part of the issue with Fitzmaurice in that lads just got too comfortable and he wasn't willing to make the hard calls.

I wouldn't say Peter Keane was out of his depth. Bar a freak result against Cork he only lost two other championship games where it could be argued he was very unlucky more so in 2021.

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186159#Comment_121186159

yeah Peter might have been better to manage u20s for a yr or 2 before doing the senior job... but he was very unlucky manager with the seniors for whatever reason though some of it he caused himself.... actually i would say that Cork defeat you refer to was Peters own doing... taking off jason foley and putting tommy welsh fullback on mark keane was mad

Fitzmaurice was too close to some of the players last time around having played with them and obviously had connections through marriage with Paul Galvin and Killian young... however he would be operating at more of a distance from the players if he were to get the job again.... personally i would like to see a young up and coming coach someone new and bring a freshness to things... rather than going back to e fitz whenever Jack departs...

who is todays version of the Jack o'connor of 20yrs ago... jack came on the scene at the end of 03... new coach no background as a kerry footballer... had success as a coach at schools etc... involved in it from a young age.. had a knack for getting a team to do what they had to do to get over the line... was able to identify players that could cut it at intercounty (very important).... is there a guy around 40-45yrs old in the county making a mark the way Jack did before getting the Kerry job...??

Poor_old_gill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186159#Comment_121186159

This idea that people keep running with that Cork was a freak result is not washing for me.

We had 15 men inside our own half for large chunks of the game and we started 2 defensive wing forwards.

It was a sh*tshow tactically and we lost due to our overly defensive tactics allowing a poor division 2 team to always have a punchers chance.

2021 against Tyrone was once again due to a very poor & naive tactical set up- we threw away an AI that was there for the taking in 2021 by keeping Keane on- saying he was out of his depth is being polite

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187665#Comment_121187665

But Fitz was guilty of just as bad calls etc 2013 with Sherwood that was a game that was there to be won. 2015 was an All-Ireland it could be argued was left behind again dow to his tactical set up and calls during the game. 2016 again like 2015 calls he made cost Kerry on the day. 2017 and 2018 were both total disasters. By that logic he was also out of his depth he was just left in the job for longer.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190270#Comment_121190270

It's hard to see who from within will make the difference. Mike Quirke didn't do much with Laois when he was there. Declan O Sullivan is too much of a loose canon imo. John Sugrue would be the only one but would he be up to it? Recent minor managers don't stand out too much either.

Poor_old_gill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192589#Comment_121192589

Maybe he was but I’m not interested in whataboutery. I would also say that Fitz had a worse squad and was coming up against better Dublin & Mayo teams.

How Keane survived that Cork loss is beyond me- the county board more or less threw away 2021 as they didn’t want to be seen to be trigger happy.

Poor_old_gill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192621#Comment_121192621

Quirke will get the job, however I’m in the same boat as you on preferring Sugrue

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192589#Comment_121192589

For whatever faults Eamon had he won an All Ireland against the odds in 2014 and his teams were always at least competitive when they got to Croke Park, usually against a strongly favoured Dublin side. There were in a position to win in both 2013 and 2016 and got caught by the Dubs strength in depth towards the end.

I don’t know why you think 2015 was left behind. Dublin controlled the game around the middle and the scoreline was very kind to Kerry. At no point did we look like winning it and it is debatable whether certain moves would have made any difference.

I don’t think he had a great panel to work with in 2017 and in 2018 he was trying to bring younger lads through. Both years were disappointing for sure. He definitely made mistakes throughout his time and maybe he had stayed on too long.

The attempts by some (not you specifically) to rewrite Keane’s tenure as unlucky doesn’t stand up. He got close in 2019 when Donie Buckleys stamp was all over the team. Once Buckley surprisingly left we started to play much more conservatively and got caught out in Munster against a fairly poor cork team. It was one of the most embarrassing championship exits in memory and I couldn’t see it happening under Eamon. The CB should have cut their losses with Keane at that stage.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192783#Comment_121192783

''I would also say that Fitz had a worse squad and was coming up against better Dublin & Mayo teams.'' Is this not ''whatboutey''?

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195365#Comment_121195365

In 2015 the Gooch was clearly struggling and what did he do? Take off Paul Geaney and James O'Donoghue the only forwards who had actually scored. Plus not starting Donaghy. That's not even including te Galvin thing.

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196211#Comment_121196211

It wasn’t Goochs day and I agree he should have been taken off. Eamon let the heart rule over the head on that one for sure.

Id have started Donaghy personally but we will never know how it might have turned out, the Dubs never allowed Donaghy to take over games and always had a way to deal with anything you threw at them.

I still think it might be a stretch to say we left it behind. The Dubs dominated the middle third and the game was played on their terms. It was going to be an uphill battle regardless of who was in the full forward line. I can’t argue that mistakes were made and it does look like sentimentality was a factor though. That shouldn’t happen at that level.

Poor_old_gill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196194#Comment_121196194

No, it’s a comparison

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196390#Comment_121196390

If you say so....

Poor_old_gill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196542#Comment_121196542

The English language says so.

Whataboutery would be responding to an accusation of poor tactics with counter claims of poor tactics by someone else

A comparison is when someone says that a squad is/was better than a different squad.

They are completely different

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196311#Comment_121196311

Was it that game as well where he had Bryan Sheehan on the sideline ready to someone if they got a long rage free or a '45.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197283#Comment_121197283

Again whatever you think if it make you happy.

FourFourRED

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121199219#Comment_121199219

Stop talking 😂

Poor_old_gill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121199219#Comment_121199219

Solid comeback.

I’m going to give you some leeway on your comments that Peter Keane was unlucky as maybe you didn’t understand the meaning of those words either

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121199856#Comment_121199856

Again you think whatever makes you happy. No need to get upset just because someone thinks different to you.

Poor_old_gill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121199914#Comment_121199914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121199914#Comment_121199914

I’m not getting upset but your ‘whatever makes you happy’ response to previous comments is laying bare that you don’t understand the meaning of certain words or else are trying to smugly get out of a discussion where you are being shown to be incorrect.

I have faith in people so I’m assuming it’s the former

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200679#Comment_121200679

But you are and it's you who doesn't seem to understand how words work.

You use examples to criticise Peter Keane yet when the same things are said about Fitzmaurice you say it's ''whatboutey'' the single most stupid phrase people us that doesn't actually mean anything.