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Should people who got less than 500 points in the leaving even allowed to vote?

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    #242
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    Funny how? wrote: »
    You mentioned that college courses are piss easy and no one fails through lack of intelligence, That's why I asked. You also mentioned that because computer science was only 300 points that's why there was/is a huge rate of failure and that is not simply the case.

    Yeah, I spoke too hot the first time and clarified in the following post.

    Well, that's pure speculation on my part as to why comp sci has a high dropout rate. Maybe it's just deathly boring. I really don't care. It has nothing to do with the thread topic.


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    #243
    Funny how?
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 42 ✭Funny how?


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Yeah, I spoke too hot the first time and clarified in the following post.

    Well, that's pure speculation on my part as to why comp sci has a high dropout rate. Maybe it's just deathly boring. I really don't care. It has nothing to do with the thread topic.

    Nope it's incredibly difficult and not learning and regurgitatting information like the leaving cert.


    And to your 1st opening post the leaving cert had nothing to do with someones IQ or intelligence. Leaving cert is pointless.

    If you want to vote should have to sit through an online elearning exercise of the various parties and what they have to offer, what local councillors have to offer etc.and then be allowed to vote. Could be done from the comfort of your own home.

    Do you realize how stupid you sound with the 500 points? For the first job I went for I had my leaving cert results on it. Ive changes jobs three times after and no one gives a flying **** about the leaving cert. You might as well someone is not allowed to vote unless they have cisco exams, accoutancy exams.

    My mind boggles just how dumb you are. Maybe everyone should have do an IQ test before they vote. Your IQ has nothing to do with your knowledge and understanding of politics.


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    #244
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    Funny how? wrote: »
    Nope it's incredibly difficult and not learning and regurgitatting information like the leaving cert.


    And to your 1st opening post the leaving cert had nothing to do with someones IQ or intelligence. Leaving cert is pointless.

    If you want to vote should have to sit through an online elearning exercise of the various parties and what they have to offer, what local councillors have to offer etc.and then be allowed to vote. Could be done from the comfort of your own home.

    Do you realize how stupid you sound with the 500 points? For the first job I went for I had my leaving cert results on it. Ive changes jobs three times after and no one gives a flying **** about the leaving cert. You might as well someone is not allowed to vote unless they have cisco exams, accoutancy exams.

    My mind boggles just how dumb you are. Maybe everyone should have do an IQ test before they vote. Your IQ has nothing to do with your knowledge and understanding of politics.

    Look, it's just a debate for fun. People have accused me of trolling. I'm not. it's a controversial topic for debate, that's all. The "should you need a degree to be able to vote" thing is a valid debate but it has been done to death, this is just a new spin on it. No need to get your knickers in a twist over it.


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    #245
    qwerty ui op
    Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭qwerty ui op


    marcus001 wrote: »
    I'd also raise the voting age to 25.

    What about old people would you lower the age?

    How about the politicians, have you got that brain of yours working on that problem, Could the 500+ folk vote for those who got less 500 to be their leader


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    #246
    Spider Web
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭Spider Web


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Previous generations had to work things out for themselves. They were out playing all day and into the night after school. They built things. They did dangerous stuff that would have had their parents' hair on end if they'd known. They told each other wild stories, and played complex, rule-based games, with rhymes of many verses to accompany some of them. If they wanted to get somewhere they got on the bike and went, or walked. Or, when they were older, hitched a lift.
    The points out of 600 system has been around since the early to mid 90s - this discussion isn't just about those who did the leaving cert in recent years. And you've no idea that none of the above ever applies to today's teenagers. You're looking down on people as much as the OP is.

    Times have changed since the days of leaving school at 12 (most people who did so would go on to struggle - times were a lot tougher then; I'm glad people grow up in much more comfort today). People need the junior cert at 15/16 at the very least now.

    Brains are brains, it's how you use them, not what generation you are - there will always be Behans and O'Caseys and Yeats.


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    #247
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Bearded men. Definitely no votes for them.


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    #248
    badboyblast
    Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭badboyblast


    What a langer statement, doing good in school shows no reflection on you except you can remember stuff and chirp it out like a parrot , real life is about working hard and smart, keep hustling!!


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    #249
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    badboyblast wrote: »
    What a langer statement, doing good in school shows no reflection on you except you can remember stuff and chirp it out like a parrot , real life is about working hard and smart, keep hustling!!

    So a bit like the leaving cert then...


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    #250
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    marcus001 wrote: »
    So a bit like the leaving cert then...

    Not remotely, there's nothing in my day to day work life that is comparable to leaving cert... Eg in work life I have confidence in my abilities that I will continue to develop for the remainder of my career.

    Meanwhile the leaving cert, personally speaking made me doubtful of my intelligence even though in retrospect I wasn't an idiot.. I have a far more of a love of learning from university and my career. My work ethic did not develop out of the leaving cert that was more prone to creating anxieties to be honest.


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    #251
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Its not a perfect measure but its the best one we have. Not many people who get below 500 could be considered "smart".

    Floyd Mayweather Junior give you his results.


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    #252
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    Not remotely, there's nothing in my day to day work life that is comparable to leaving cert... Eg in work life I have confidence in my abilities that I will continue to develop for the remainder of my career.

    Meanwhile the leaving cert, personally speaking made me doubtful of my intelligence even though in retrospect I wasn't an idiot.. I have a far more of a love of learning from university and my career. My work ethic did not develop out of the leaving cert that was more prone to creating anxieties to be honest.

    Well for me, the leaving cert helped me to develop a work ethic. I had to be disciplined enough to make sacrifices and delay gratification for about 8 months of the year so that I could reap the benefits for the rest of my life and it was one of the most formative experiences of my life. Previous to that I was lazy, unmotivated, unfocused, never did homework, never paid attention etc. If it wasn't for the pressures of the leaving cert I don't know if I'd ever have developed that work ethic.


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    #253
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Well for me, the leaving cert helped me to develop a work ethic. I had to be disciplined enough to make sacrifices and delay gratification for about 8 months of the year so that I could reap the benefits for the rest of my life and it was one of the most formative experiences of my life. Previous to that I was lazy, unmotivated, unfocused, never did homework, never paid attention etc. If it wasn't for the pressures of the leaving cert I don't know if I'd ever have developed that work ethic.

    Okay so that's one individual experience and as a result you think the only intelligent people are those who got 500 points or more. Do you think that's a rational conclusion?


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    #254
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    Okay so that's one individual experience and as a result you think the only intelligent people are those who got 500 points or more. Do you think that's a rational conclusion?

    Where did I say that I believed that as a result of my individual experience with the leaving cert?

    I believe it because smart people tend to do well in exams, not because of something I experienced.


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    #255
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    marcus001 wrote: »
    How much more competent would our political class be if they were handpicked and held to account by the cognitive elite?

    I never sat my leaving but I have an Honours degree and a masters yet according to you I'm not competent to vote???


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    #256
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Where did I say that I believed that as a result of my individual experience with the leaving cert?

    I believe it because smart people tend to do well in exams, not because of something I experienced.

    a) Smart people don't always do well in exams

    b) Smart people don't always take good decisions - choose a government and think about how the people in it have behaved and how smart they are or are not


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    #257
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    Chuchote wrote: »
    a) Smart people don't always do well in exams

    b) Smart people don't always take good decisions - choose a government and think about how the people in it have behaved and how smart they are or are not

    They tend to do better than people who aren't. They tend to make better decisions. These are tendencies, it doesn't mean they always do, but they tend to.


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    #258
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    baylah17 wrote: »
    I never sat my leaving but I have an Honours degree and a masters yet according to you I'm not competent to vote???

    Did you steal them off someone's wall?


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    #259
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Did you steal them off someone's wall?

    Why don't you answer the question instead of being a dick? Unless you are just a dick?


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    #260
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,262 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Did you steal them off someone's wall?

    So much IQ you have clearly.


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    #261
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    RayM wrote: »
    I'm not sure that ability to learn things off by heart is the best measure of a person's intelligence, tbh.

    Some of us just winged it.


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    #262
    Nervous Wreck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Nervous Wreck


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Did you steal them off someone's wall?

    marcus001, if you're not prepared to engage seriously in your own thread, without insults, you can take a break from it. Your choice.


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    #263
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    baylah17 wrote: »
    I never sat my leaving but I have an Honours degree and a masters yet according to you I'm not competent to vote???

    Did you have to do an equivalency or matriculation to get in?


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    #264
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Could ban anyone from voting who reckons the IQ metric or the LC is a sane way of measuring people's fitness to vote. That might solve some of the nonsense.


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    #265
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    marcus001 wrote: »
    They tend to do better than people who aren't. They tend to make better decisions. These are tendencies, it doesn't mean they always do, but they tend to.

    You read like an elitist who has put far more value in the leaving cert than it is worth. I know people with despicable views that are uninformed who got well over 500 points. I also know people who didn't get on great in the leaving cert who have PhDs.


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    #266
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    You read like an elitist who has put far more value in the leaving cert than it is worth. I know people with despicable views that are uninformed who got well over 500 points. I also know people who didn't get on great in the leaving cert who have PhDs.

    I gotta admit, I'm pretty amused at the idea of using the Leaving Cert as something to be elitist about. Isn't that pretty much irrelevant once you'd moved on to the next stage? It's rather more important to do well in your college degree or apprenticeship once the LC has gotten you into it.


    It's a bit like swanking over the 11+. Important at the time and has an effect on the rest of your life, but not the be all and end all, especially at that age.


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    #267
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,740 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Most shocking part of the thread is OP is NOT a new account!

    Not really this poster has form for garbage posting like this


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    #268
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    Samaris wrote: »
    I gotta admit, I'm pretty amused at the idea of using the Leaving Cert as something to be elitist about. Isn't that pretty much irrelevant once you'd moved on to the next stage? It's rather more important to do well in your college degree or apprenticeship once the LC has gotten you into it.


    It's a bit like swanking over the 11+. Important at the time and has an effect on the rest of your life, but not the be all and end all, especially at that age.

    Yep, mine was years ago. I don't include my leaving cert on my CV as it'd look silly at this stage... I don't think me or my colleagues would check for leaving cert results on an applicant's CV. The fact that the op is well past leaving cert age and thinks this is pretty hilarious. He also seems to be facing more coherent points from plenty who got on far worse than him... 😂


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    #269
    ressem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭ressem


    Why wouldn't those that have been disenfranchised by the new LC graded political apartheid reject it?
    Just as they fought and rejected the old systems that were based on property ownership?

    As with most policies a large section of the populous would at best scorn it. With time, there'd be dissent and revolt.

    Also, do we get to present the OP with a maths leaving cert paper from the 1960's and see how he'd get on?


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    #270
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,478 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Surely the answer is obvious, let the OP run the country.
    The rest of us can wallow in our stupidity and be servile sycophantic lackey's whose sole purpose in life is to serve our intellectual overlords.
    Perhaps we could have a eugenics system which outlaws reproduction for less affluent or intelligent people, or perhaps clever people who just don't measure up in terms of their physical appearance should be neutered too.
    The OP only seems to be discriminating because of the unnecessary diversity in society, how dare different people exist never mind have the right to any measure of political self determination, how the OP has held back on this issue for so long is anyone's guess.


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    #271
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    RayM wrote: »
    I'm not sure that ability to learn things off by heart is the best measure of a person's intelligence, tbh.

    You're right
    Theres probably much better ways of measuring intelligence, but definitely in the schools I was in there was big correlation between the intelligent students getting high points and the stupid students getting low points. And yes we all know examples of people personally of intelligent students who werent arsed and less bright students who worked hard to get good points

    Usually the people I see saying its a poor measure of intelligence are ones who are insecure about how they did in the leaving
    And again I completely agree that its not a great measure of intelligence but it'd be crazy to deny there isn't a big correlation between points and intelligence


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