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Should people who got less than 500 points in the leaving even allowed to vote?

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24567…10

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    #32
    LittleMuppet
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭LittleMuppet


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Well, ideally we wouldn't deprive people of rights they already have. We would instate it for future generations so that as the years go on we will have a more intelligent electorate. Then and only then will we have good governance. You cannot govern a country democratically with an average IQ below 90 and even slightly above that you get lots of incompetence and corruption.

    In order to save democracy we need to award democratic rights based on competence. That is my firm belief.

    Why do I get the feeling I'm talking to a real life Ross O'Carroll Kelly?

    If you're not a troll, you are a very sad and stuck up individual. How can you even bring yourself to converse with us and our sub-par intelligence?


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    #33
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users Posts: 10,834 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    marcus001 wrote: »
    You cannot govern a country democratically with an average IQ below 90
    Well, genius, you would need to start by sitting down and having a stern talk with whoever designed the test if it threw up an average of 90.


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    #34
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Decided not to waste time doing as well as they possibly can in their exams. Played Xbox alone and wanked while their friends were all busy studying. Real asset to society there.

    Basically no one intelligent does that, you'd know that if you'd spent your life surrounded by them.

    Why are you bringing "****" into the discussion? Would an intelligent person make such a generalisation? Sounds like your arguing in favour of your own disenfranchisement, tb perfectly h with you.


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    #35
    wandererz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭wandererz


    I didn't get any points in the leaving cert yet i ended up advising some of the biggest enterprise and government organisations in Ireland and worked for multi billion dollar companies.

    My nephew just got fantastic results and decided to study English.

    In my opinion...go figure!


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    #36
    jamesbere
    Registered Users Posts: 5,022 ✭✭✭jamesbere


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Exams are essentially a test of IQ and work ethic. As I said before, the best predictor of exam success is IQ followed by trait industriousness.

    It's an interesting topic you've brought up but you're essentially talking about a society where only the most intelligent make the decisions for everyone else.

    Slight flaw to that, I can imagine that would cause a lot of social unrest.


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    #37
    Sparks43
    Registered Users Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Sparks43


    RayM wrote: »
    Why are you bringing "****" into the discussion? Would an intelligent person make such a generalisation? Sounds like your arguing in favour of your own disenfranchisement, tb perfectly h with you.


    If he was truly intelligent the term "self pleasure" would be more appropriate to ****


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ive written 3 different responses to this thread and they all end up stupid because the premise is stupid.

    Whats the lowest common denominator? I'd argue its having enough houses to house everyone and having enough jobs to keep everyone employed having reliable public transport and when you need to visit a hospital you get a bed straightaway and get seen to by the top of their field, and when you've paid the taxes neccessary to provide all of that you have enough left over to have a comfortable life style.

    I'd argue the above is the lowest common denominator, and I'd also argue its what every politician should be striving for.

    The problem is they all can't agree how to do it. (And a few are on the take)


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    #39
    jamesbere
    Registered Users Posts: 5,022 ✭✭✭jamesbere


    Sparks43 wrote: »
    If he was truly intelligent the term "self pleasure" would be more appropriate to ****

    I prefer the term "personal gratification"


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    #40
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    LittleMuppet wrote: »
    Why do I get the feeling I'm talking to a real life Ross O'Carroll Kelly?

    If you're not a troll, you are a very sad and stuck up individual. How can you even bring yourself to converse with us and our sub-par intelligence?

    Maybe because you think in stereotypes.

    You mistake my fairly detached and pragmatic approach to suffrage with actual disdain for people who are not highly intelligent. This would be a ludicrous way to exist since the vast majority of people are of about average intelligence. I'm not nearly as stuck up as I may admittedly be coming across, I'm actually fairly down to earth and can converse with anyone.


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    #41
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    RayM wrote: »
    Why are you bringing "****" into the discussion? Would an intelligent person make such a generalisation? Sounds like your arguing in favour of your own disenfranchisement, tb perfectly h with you.

    It was a joke. This is AH.


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    #42
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    jamesbere wrote: »
    It's an interesting topic you've brought up but you're essentially talking about a society where only the most intelligent make the decisions for everyone else.

    Slight flaw to that, I can imagine that would cause a lot of social unrest.

    It might but then again it might not. I think it might foster a sense of noblesse oblige amongst the voting population and the rest of the population might end up being happy with the decisions made overall because they would likely be smarter decisions.


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    #43
    LittleMuppet
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭LittleMuppet


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Maybe because you think in stereotypes.

    You mistake my fairly detached and pragmatic approach to suffrage with actual disdain for people who are not highly intelligent. This would be a ludicrous way to exist since the vast majority of people are of about average intelligence. I'm not nearly as stuck up as I may admittedly be coming across, I'm actually fairly down to earth and can converse with anyone.

    I certainly don't think in stereotypes. I was slagged in school for my 'posh' accent and the fact I didn't conform to what my classmates considered normal. You are coming across as disdainful of anyone who is not academic. Everyone has their own talents and no-one is beneath anyone else, regardless of their ‘intelligence' and academic ability. Tbh you don't seem down to earth at all.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Maybe because you think in stereotypes.

    You mistake my fairly detached and pragmatic approach to suffrage with actual disdain for people who are not highly intelligent. This would be a ludicrous way to exist since the vast majority of people are of about average intelligence. I'm not nearly as stuck up as I may admittedly be coming across, I'm actually fairly down to earth and can converse with anyone.

    Do you think you could converse with me despite me never going to college?


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    #45
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    Sparks43 wrote: »
    If he was truly intelligent the term "self pleasure" would be more appropriate to ****

    It took longer than expected for someone to question my intelligence.

    Because intelligent people use phrases like self-pleasure all the time.


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    #46
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    marcus001 wrote: »
    It might but then again it might not. I think it might foster a sense of noblesse oblige amongst the voting population and the rest of the population might end up being happy with the decisions made overall because they would likely be smarter decisions.

    Some people sound like **** though.


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    #47
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    marcus001 wrote: »
    It was a joke. This is AH.

    A joke? A joke??? Is such masturbatory frivolity not a waste of one's time; time that could no doubt be better spent?


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    #48
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Do you think you could converse with me despite me never going to college?

    Well, I don't really want to get into personal stuff, but its usually hard to find common ground. That doesn't mean I don't try. I used to keep up with football for the sole purpose of being able to chat to the lads I used to work with during college even though I never could give a ****e.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Because intelligent people use phrases like self-pleasure all the time.

    No they don't.

    People who are up their own arses do.


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    #50
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    marcus001 wrote: »
    How much more competent would our political class be if they were handpicked and held to account by the cognitive elite?

    What IQ got to do with anything? In my view, Personality, emotional and mental state, personnel views on life, would be better ways to judge if a person is fit for office. Highly intelligent people make mistakes too, intelligence does not make you immune.


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    #51
    jamesbere
    Registered Users Posts: 5,022 ✭✭✭jamesbere


    marcus001 wrote: »
    It might but then again it might not. I think it might foster a sense of noblesse oblige amongst the voting population and the rest of the population might end up being happy with the decisions made overall because they would likely be smarter decisions.

    I think you would fit in well in this time period


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    #52
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No they don't.

    People who are up their own arses do.

    No one has ever used that phrase in the history of the English language whether they are up or down their arses.


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    #53
    wandererz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭wandererz


    From what i have been fed by the media, it seems that most politicians in Ireland are ex teachers.
    Is that true?

    If so, in my opinion they are failed. They are not nor neither have been entrepreneurs or leaders. Simply getting onto the bandwagon.

    They did not go to becoming researchers, serious educators in universities, heads of companies etc. before taking on political roles.

    There are a few, Leo Varadkar being one.
    He managed to become a medical doctor, so that obviously took a significant bit in terms of LC results. That didn't make him a great health minister however. Time will tell if he becomes a great Taoiseach.

    In other countries there is a reasonably good representation of people in cabinet.
    I haven't done a study recently so I don't know what that is in Ireland.


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    #54
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    What IQ got to do with anything? In my view, Personality, emotional and mental state, personnel views on life, would be better ways to judge if a person is fit for office. Highly intelligent people make mistakes too, intelligence does not make you immune.

    We're not talking about fitness for office, we're talking about who should be allowed vote.

    I would also argue that intelligent people on average make fewer mistakes.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Well, I don't really want to get into personal stuff, but its usually hard to find common ground. That doesn't mean I don't try. I used to keep up with football for the sole purpose of being able to chat to the lads I used to work with during college even though I never could give a ****e.

    So becaue I didn't go to college it means I am automatically only interested in football?

    Well I have other interests. Whats your favourite symphony? Mine is either Beethoven No 7 or Dvorak's New World Symphony. I know many people proclaim Beethoven's fifth was the best but I prefer his 7th.

    I know you are a beginner at golf so we could talk about that perhaps?


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    #56
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    wandererz wrote: »
    From what i have been fed by the media, it seems that most politicians in Ireland are ex teachers.
    Is that true?

    If so, in my opinion they are failed. They are not nor neither have been entrepreneurs or leaders. Simply getting onto the bandwagon.

    They did not go to becoming researchers, serious educators in universities, heads of companies etc. before taking on political roles.

    There are a few, Leo Varadkar being one.
    He managed to become a medical doctor, so that obviously took a significant bit in terms of LC results. That didn't make him a great health minister however. Time will tell if he becomes a great Taoiseach.

    I'm not even sure Leo would be elected under the system I'm proposing.

    I'm fully aware that he probably has a lot of support amongst the affluent South Dublin set, but the political landscape would be fundamentally different under this system. There would be far less emphasis on personality over substance. That's what Leo is. I think, left to the high achievers to decide, we'd simply get competent professionals as opposed to ideologues on both sides.


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    #57
    jamesbere
    Registered Users Posts: 5,022 ✭✭✭jamesbere


    marcus001 wrote: »
    We're not talking about fitness for office, we're talking about who should be allowed vote.

    I would also argue that intelligent people on average make fewer mistakes.

    And your evidence to prove this is.....


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    #58
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So becaue I didn't go to college it means I am automatically only interested in football?

    Nah just the lads that I worked with.


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    #59
    LittleMuppet
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭LittleMuppet


    marcus001 wrote: »
    We're not talking about fitness for office, we're talking about who should be allowed vote.

    I would also argue that intelligent people on average make fewer mistakes.

    Seriously? In my line of work, I cannot make mistakes EVER. But according to you, I'm not intelligent but none of my batches of medication have ever been recalled. How do you explain that? My father was a physicist and made mistakes all the time. The Garda Commissioner is an intelligent woman and look at all her mistakes. Do you want me to go on?

    'To err is human...'


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    #60
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    jamesbere wrote: »
    And your evidence to prove this is.....

    It seems fairly intuitive to me, I don't need to read it in a scientific journal to deduce that intelligent people probably make fewer mistakes. Although I don't know whether clumsiness is related to intelligence, general competence certainly is.


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    #61
    marcus001
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭marcus001


    LittleMuppet wrote: »
    Seriously? In my line of work, I cannot make mistakes EVER. But according to you, I'm not intelligent but none of my batches of medication have ever been recalled. How do you explain that? My father was a physicist and made mistakes all the time. The Garda Commissioner is an intelligent woman and look at all her mistakes. Do you want me to go on?

    'To err is human...'

    You see these personal anecdotes are not one bit compelling to me because for all I know they're totally made up. And just because you don't make mistakes doesn't mean that intelligent people on average don't make fewer mistakes.

    As for Noirín, she's smarter than you give her credit for because I doubt a lot of these mistakes are really unintentional.


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