Bus Eireann N3/M3 Corridor Route & Timetable Changes - Phase 3

tom23

From using the train every now and again I'd happily get on a feeder bus at Parkway and go straight down the motorway and turning in at Garlow cross. Would be ideal. Your bang on the money in that thinkering around the edges doesn't cut it anymore.

CuriousOwl

Down in the south of the country I’ve noticed great disimprovements in the standard of service over the last few weeks too. On several occasions recently the X8 has been operated by a private coach which doesn’t have the facilities for selling tickets. I’ve also experienced an early morning bus not showing up at all with no notice posted on the website or any social media. Do you think this could be a knock-on effect of the issues with the new services / rostering up the country? Didn’t think it would be affecting this part of the country just yet.

horseburger

Irish Steve wrote: »

I realise this won't be a popular suggestion, but for me, the whole concept of sending the longer route BE services through the jams on the city roads inside the M50 is out of date, the M3 corridor should work on the basis of services run from Busaras non stop via DPT to the M3 park and ride at Clonee, with Dublin bus providing feeder services to and from places like Phibsboro and Blanchardstown, and anywhere else that's appropriate, such as the hospitals. In the same vein, tickets should be transferable between the different services at places like Ashbourne, Dunshaughlin, Navan etc, as well as at Clonee onto local services. It really is time for a radical rethink about how some of these services operate, tinkering around the edges doesn't hack it any more. The same would then apply to inbounds, the last stop before Busaras would be Clonee, and if it was correctly set up, I suspect that for most people, the journey times would be better. I'd even wonder if all services actually need to run between Clonee and Busaras, if the arrival times from the different routes were similar, off peak, one bus could well be able to carry the passengers for several services, even more so if there were more feeder options to other parts of the city to/from Clonee, which might reduce the dependence on using Busaras.

I guess, also, if Dublin Bus did operate such a type of connecting service so regularly, to and from places like Blanchardstown and Dublin City Centre, it might be useful to passengers travelling from places like Kentstown and Duleek on the 105 timetable, between Drogheda and Blanchardstown Connolly Hospital, considering that the 103 hasn't served Duleek, since the 103 timetable changed on 3rd April 2016, and as far as I know, the only other service that covers Kentstown to and from Dublin is the 107.

But, if the Dublin Bus feeder service, was a direct service, to the city centre, would it have enough people, at any one time, on each of the feeder services, to merit not covering intermediate stops.

In such a scenario, might Dublin Bus just suggest, that passengers - who would be alighting at Blanchardstown off the 105 service, from places like Duleek and Kentstown - just avail of the existing Dublin Bus services between Blanchardstown and Dublin city centre?

http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1470226109-105.pdf

http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1470226273-105X.pdf

Irish Steve

The DB feeders to Clonee would need to cover some of the intermediate stops, to make it viable, a lot would depend on where those feeder services started and finished, I suspect a service from Clonee to St Stephen's Green would be popular, even more so if some of the peak time services went out to UCD.

I'd also be interested to know how many people would use services from Clonee to (say) Citywest, Sandyford, and Red Cow, to suggest just 3 large industrial areas that are a nightmare to get to by public transport from the Northern outer suburbs and the like. In the same vein, places like Ballycoolin are not well served if you live outside of Dublin.

Yes, the concepts that were being suggested a few years back of an outer ring Metro would go a long way towards making it easier for people to get to and from work, but we don't have the political will to commit to real infrastructure, the return on investment for the politicians is too long, if it won't deliver votes at the next election, they don't want to know about it, so there's no real long term planning of anything that might actually be of real benefit to the general population.

There are a few 103X services from Duleek to Dublin, but you're right, the changes to the 103 have made it harder to get to Dublin from there, and I never did understand the thinking behind stopping the revised 105 at Blanchardstown, but I'd also have to wonder at the whole concept of BE being the main provider for South Meath, when Dublin Bus go out to Blessington, Maynooth and Balbriggan, all further from Dublin than Ashbourne, Ratoath and Dunshaughlin. TII are seeking tenders for a service to Swords from Ashbourne, which would be very easy for DB to do, as they already come within a relatively short distance at Rolestown, but that seems too easy, and of course, it would then compete with things like the 109A, as the DB service goes beyond Swords to Dublin, via the airport.

In many respects, the whole concept of Busaras is outdated, I suspect that a much more usable solution would be to have a number of hub locations for the long distance services at places like the Airport, Clonee, Liffey Valley, Red Cow and Sandyford, with feeders from those locations into the most popular places within the M50, with the way that Dublin has evolved over the last 30 years, the concept of everyone working in the city centre is no longer valid, there are huge work areas around the periphery of the city, and those locations are very poorly serviced by public transport if you don't want to go via the city centre, and that's part of the reason for the massive congestion on the M50, for many people, there is NO viable and reliable public transport option.

horseburger

Irish Steve wrote: »

The DB feeders to Clonee would need to cover some of the intermediate stops, to make it viable, a lot would depend on where those feeder services started and finished, I suspect a service from Clonee to St Stephen's Green would be popular, even more so if some of the peak time services went out to UCD.

I'd also be interested to know how many people would use services from Clonee to (say) Citywest, Sandyford, and Red Cow, to suggest just 3 large industrial areas that are a nightmare to get to by public transport from the Northern outer suburbs and the like. In the same vein, places like Ballycoolin are not well served if you live outside of Dublin.

Yes, the concepts that were being suggested a few years back of an outer ring Metro would go a long way towards making it easier for people to get to and from work, but we don't have the political will to commit to real infrastructure, the return on investment for the politicians is too long, if it won't deliver votes at the next election, they don't want to know about it, so there's no real long term planning of anything that might actually be of real benefit to the general population.

There are a few 103X services from Duleek to Dublin, but you're right, the changes to the 103 have made it harder to get to Dublin from there, and I never did understand the thinking behind stopping the revised 105 at Blanchardstown, but I'd also have to wonder at the whole concept of BE being the main provider for South Meath, when Dublin Bus go out to Blessington, Maynooth and Balbriggan, all further from Dublin than Ashbourne, Ratoath and Dunshaughlin. TII are seeking tenders for a service to Swords from Ashbourne, which would be very easy for DB to do, as they already come within a relatively short distance at Rolestown, but that seems too easy, and of course, it would then compete with things like the 109A, as the DB service goes beyond Swords to Dublin, via the airport.

In many respects, the whole concept of Busaras is outdated, I suspect that a much more usable solution would be to have a number of hub locations for the long distance services at places like the Airport, Clonee, Liffey Valley, Red Cow and Sandyford, with feeders from those locations into the most popular places within the M50, with the way that Dublin has evolved over the last 30 years, the concept of everyone working in the city centre is no longer valid, there are huge work areas around the periphery of the city, and those locations are very poorly serviced by public transport if you don't want to go via the city centre, and that's part of the reason for the massive congestion on the M50, for many people, there is NO viable and reliable public transport option.

You raise really good, interesting points, Irish Steve, including about having to go to the city centre to get buses or trains to other parts of Dublin.

Edit: I forgot to point out in my earlier post, that passengers going to and from Duleek or Kentstown, to Dublin, on the 105, can connect with the 103 service in Ratoath or Ashbourne, going to Dublin.

Conway635

horseburger wrote: »

Did any of the passengers who told the driver to go out the port tunnel, get out in Kells?

That I cannot answer - I was almost at the front and they were behind me, so I only heard voices, and can't match them to bodies getting off later.

C635

devnull

Bit more disruption today

Route 103
10.18 Dublin To Ratoath (Service at 09.58 & 09.38)
11.22 Ratoath to Dublin (Service at 11.02 & 11.42)

Route NX
14.00 Wilton Terrace to Navan
15.40 Navan to Wilton Terrace

Route 133
10.00 From Wicklow to Dublin Airport
13.40 From Dublin Airport to Wicklow.

We apologise for any inconvenience these disruptions may cause our customers

horseburger

Conway635 wrote: »

That I cannot answer - I was almost at the front and they were behind me, so I only heard voices, and can't match them to bodies getting off later.

C635

Do you know if there were passengers for Virginia and Cavan left behind at Bus Aras?

It sounds to me, that if there were Virginia and Cavan passengers left behind, and more than one person got out in Kells, that perhaps if some of the Kells passengers had not taken that particular 109X at 6.15pm, that there would have been at least some seats available for Virginia and Cavan passengers from Bus Aras, and perhaps at the stops between Bus Aras and the Blanchardstown slip road, had the bus gone out the correct route, and not out the port tunnel.

If Kells passengers, on that particular 109X at 6.15pm, from Bus Aras, had not taken that particular 109X service, they would not have had to wait a full hour for the next services to Kells from Bus Aras, as there were 109 services at 6.30pm and 6.45pm, compared to the next 109X to Virginia and Cavan at 7.15pm

Commuter109

devnull wrote: »

Bit more disruption today

I would be very surprised is that was the true extent of it. I understand that there were multiple NX's that were to start from Wilton Terrace, that have actually started from Bersford place instead over the last two weeks. So while the buses didn't have to be reported as cancellations, they may as well have been to people waiting on the south side of the city.

This NX has some good points and its not all bad to be fair, but could be a hell of alot of better.

horseburger

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/10/13/4147173-unions-slam-doherty-over-unofficial-dispute-claim/

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

horseburger wrote: »

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/10/13/4147173-unions-slam-doherty-over-unofficial-dispute-claim/

Love how she is the minister for work affairs and couldn't give a flying sh/te about us in this case and only blames is based on lies.

But then again, how untrusting are people towards Regina Doherty ? How much did she steal before ?

Really shows how the current government is very selfish,

Shane Ross , bearly lifts a finger in regards to busses or trains but what did he achieve in doing with his buddy enda as a friends agreement ? He got his local Garda station re opened.

Regina Doherty ? Minister for work affairs for which is an issue in the whole dilemma and she's only worried about her friends getting a bus into town or the airport.

Re election would be very interesting around now , I can't believe this government has lasted this long.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/10/13/4147173-unions-slam-doherty-over-unofficial-dispute-claim/

Hardly surprising though that Unions have a different view from the politicians though is at the end of the day, they're never going to agree with each other since they're looking at it from completely different positions and perspectives.

It wouldn't surprise me if the truth was somewhere in the middle.

From: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1013/912151-sipu-criticise-regina-doherty-over-bus-eireann-claim/

Bus Éireann rejected SIPTU's assertions of a lack of foresight or incompetence.

The company said that it had liaised with drivers' unions ahead of the introduction of the new timetable of changes and new driver rosters.

It said it was working hard to address the impact on services, and would continue to liaise with unions and staff as part of a major business restructure to reverse insolvency and make the company efficient.

devnull

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Shane Ross , bearly lifts a finger in regards to busses or trains but what did he achieve in doing with his buddy enda as a friends agreement ? He got his local Garda station re opened.

There have been quite decent increases in PSO and public transport investment in the last two years, the unions very well know that which is why they continue to only mention figures up until 2015 since if they used more up to date figures in their quotes it would weaken their point somewhat so instead they continue to cherry pick figures and ignore anything that happened since 2015.

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

Hardly surprising though that Unions have a different view from the politicians though is at the end of the day, they're never going to agree with each other since they're looking at it from completely different positions and perspectives.

It wouldn't surprise me if the truth was somewhere in the middle.

From: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1013/912151-sipu-criticise-regina-doherty-over-bus-eireann-claim/

Recently, I made reference to a number of press statements Regina Doherty made in January and April 2016, were it is clear that she was talking nonsense, in relation to her objections last year, about the changes to the 103 and 105 services.

In one of her press statements, she said that with changes to the 105 service, that Ashbourne and Ratoath, Duleek and Kentstown passengers would not be able to get to Dublin City Centre.

She never mentioned, when she claimed this in her January 2016 press statement, that the 103 service to Dublin City Centre to and from Ratoath and Ashbourne was operating at that time.

Therefore it was not truthful of her to suggest that Ashbourne and Ratoath passengers would not be able to get to Dublin City Centre.

She talked of passengers wanting to go to Dublin City Centre as being stranded.

She didn't know, going by her statement, where she is quoted, that the 105 did not at that stage serve Kentstown or Duleek, even though that 105 service was, and still is, covering her local area.

She just assumed the negative of Bus Éireann and The NTA, where it turned out that the services to and from Dublin and Ashbourne and Ratoath were actually improved.

As a result of statements she has made before regarding bus services, I would find it very difficult to take as gospel anything she says, including what she claimed this week about Bus Éireann drivers.

All she is doing is grandstanding. In April 2016, she claimed Bus Éireann had not notified passengers of route changes to the 105 and 103 services. She did not know that Bus Éireann had issued a statement, two months earlier, in February 2016, notifying passengers of changes and improvements to the 105 and 103 services.

Now, she's expecting people to believe that she is championing Bus Éireann, despite the fact that in the two statements she made in 2016, to which I refer, all she did was criticise both Bus Éireann and The NTA, and assume negativity, of both Bus Éireann and The NTA, in the plans for route changes to the 103 and 105 services.

http://reginadoherty.blogspot.ie/2016/01/doherty-calls-for-reversal-of-proposed.html

http://reginadoherty.blogspot.ie/2016/04/bus-eireann-finally-listening-to.html

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98886417&postcount=12

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

She just assumed the negative of Bus Éireann and The NTA, where it turned out that the services to and from Dublin and Ashbourne and Ratoath were actually improved.

As a result of statements she has made before regarding bus services, I would find it very difficult to take as gospel anything she says, including what she claimed this week about Bus Éireann drivers.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885[/url]

I have met with the acting CEO of Bus Eireann, Ray Hernan, again, armed with the feedback that you have provided to me. It is clear that an unofficial labour dispute is in progress.

In the last week alone, 299 replacement buses had to be drafted in to cover the Eastern bus corridor where drivers aren’t showing up for work, at a cost of €150,000. It’s unacceptable for Meath commuters to be left stranded in this fashion. This simply cannot continue.

Bus Eireann have since confirmed that the figures quoted by Regina Doherty are correct and have not disputed them according to an article which was posted on the RTE website yesterday

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1013/912151-sipu-criticise-regina-doherty-over-bus-eireann-claim/

She said that last week alone, 299 replacement services were required from private bus companies at a cost to Bus Éireann of over €150,000 to plug gaps where drivers had not presented for work.

These figures were confirmed by Bus Éireann, who also revealed that projected losses for this year have risen from under €10m earlier this year to an estimated €16m.

TheQuietFella

There are drivers on holidays and their routes obviously need to be covered and by whom? Both Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus are short staffed on drivers
and with the total lack of investment within the public transport sector (staff/buses) and they are not alone in that regard (Gardaí, Education, Defence Forces, Health and many other areas) what do people really expect from them?

The country is spent or broke in whatever way you want to look at it!
Just think of all those billions that were foolishly paid to bail out the banks and investors but that's another mans argument!

devnull

TheQuietFella wrote: »

There are drivers on holidays and their routes obviously need to be covered and by whom? Both Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus are short staffed on drivers.

Bus Eireann issues seem to be largely related to the fact that the number of staff on sick leave at any one time recently is approx quadruple the national average, if this was not the case the issues with these routes would be at least much reduced if not eliminated altogether.

and with the total lack of investment within the public transport sector (staff/buses) and they are not alone in that regard

Investment has been increasing year on year for the last 3 years and will increase further in the next few years as well as has been outlined in the latest budgets which includes over €7bn being spent in redesigning the Dublin City Bus network which is long overdue and it seems that Metro North may finally happen at last.

There is approx €100m a year now being spent on new vehicles for PSO contract services on a regular basis and I can never remember it being as high as that in the past and whilst subsidy was cut following the financial crisis, state funding last year alone by way of operating subsidy was increased by 23.7%.

There certainly remains a lot more that needs to be done to resolve the problems with public transport in this country and the jobs not even close to being half done, but the levels of investment in the service are much better than they were several years ago.

TheQuietFella

devnull wrote: »

There certainly remains a lot more that needs to be done to resolve the problems with public transport in this country and the jobs not even close to being half done, but the levels of investment in the service are much better than they were several years ago.

So at least then you are admitting to poor investment in the service for many years and now we are playing catch-up at a relatively poor rate of return!

As for €100m according to these guys a new bus costs in excess of €300k
so 30 buses for the sake of argument averages out at about one per county!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-to-sell-84-double-decker-buses-under-upgrade-plan-1.2548496

end of the road

TheQuietFella wrote: »

So at least then you are admitting to poor investment in the service for many years and now we are playing catch-up at a relatively poor rate of return!

As for €100m according to these guys a new bus costs in excess of €300k
so 30 buses for the sake of argument averages out at about one per county!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-to-sell-84-double-decker-buses-under-upgrade-plan-1.2548496

not forgetting as well that there were supposibly redundantsies at bus eireann.

devnull wrote: »

Bus Eireann issues seem to be largely related to the fact that the number of staff on sick leave at any one time recently is approx quadruple the national average, if this was not the case the issues with these routes would be at least much reduced if not eliminated altogether.

we don't know if it is a "fact" though. it's a claim by the company that may or may not be true. so in my opinion "allegedly" should be put in as part of your statement.

TheQuietFella

end of the road wrote: »

not forgetting as well that there were supposibly redundancies at bus eireann.

we don't know if it is a "fact" though. it's a claim by the company that may or may not be true. so in my opinion "allegedly" should be put in as part of your statement.

I would be surprised if they could afford them but as both companies are short staffed, what contingency plans are in place to cover this eventuality should it arise or will it be the typical Irish reaction 'lets wait and see what happens'

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885[/url]



Bus Eireann have since confirmed that the figures quoted by Regina Doherty are correct and have not disputed them according to an article which was posted on the RTE website yesterday

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1013/912151-sipu-criticise-regina-doherty-over-bus-eireann-claim/

Thanks devnull, I already saw the photo of her with Ray Hernan.

The point I was making was that she is now giving the impression that she thinks so highly of the company that she sees fit to get herself photographed with they guy who is acting CEO of the company, but when it is convenient to her, she will issue press statements doing all she can to criticise Bus Éireann and The NTA, and without realizing it, she will display her ignorance and lack of knowledge about routes operated by Bus Éireann, routes operated with the co-operation of The NTA, including the services operated in her own local area.

She did not make any attempt, to find out the views of the drivers, on this issue, before she made the claim, so any comment she makes on the issue is going to be one sided.

The claims made by her against the drivers, have been responded to, on her facebook page, in comments, under the two particular facebook items she posted, of her, pictured with Ray Hernan.

She has not responded to many of the points made, in reply, to her accusation against drivers. These posts, in response to her, give details on how the bus services operate.

https://www.facebook.com/reginadoherty.ie/posts/1147754588691096
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885

Numerous posts state that Bus Éireann had not put in place the required resources, needed to operate the NX service, before implementing the new NX timetable on 17th September.

As I understand it, drivers had indicated to Bus Éireann management, before the NX service was introduced, that it was going to be very difficult to operate a service with a frequency of every 20 minutes to and from Dublin and Navan throughout the day and evening, without encountering issues, including delays, due to traffic congestion, which would have a knock on effect on later services of the NX route, each day and evening.

I would be inclined to trust the details, given by drivers, over anything stated by Regina Doherty, on this issue of bus services.

There are insighful responses in the Journal items, to Regina Doherty's charge against the drivers, responses which give details on how the bus services operate. There are also posts by other people, who display their ignorance, in their attempts, at vilifying the drivers.

http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-eireann-north-east-absenteeism-3645281-Oct2017/

http://www.thejournal.ie/unions-bus-eireann-regina-doherty-3644945-Oct2017/

end of the road

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I would be surprised if they could afford them but as both companies are short staffed, what contingency plans are in place to cover this eventuality should it arise or will it be the typical Irish reaction 'lets wait and see what happens'

god only knows i guess.

devnull

TheQuietFella wrote: »

So at least then you are admitting to poor investment in the service for many years and now we are playing catch-up at a relatively poor rate of return!

The problem was over a number of years the country was broke and therefore could not afford the investment required, but even before the country was broke there was no real proper direction of how money was spent and no accountability over what it should deliver with a lot of dithering and political interference.

As for €100m according to these guys a new bus costs in excess of €300k
so 30 buses for the sake of argument averages out at about one per county!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-to-sell-84-double-decker-buses-under-upgrade-plan-1.2548496

There are so many incorrect things with your post and claims that I do not know where to start to be frank, but suffice to say your maths is seriously flawed.

€316k x 30 = €9.48m

That leaves you with still €90m to spend. That's before you take into account that not all vehicles that have been purchased have been for Dublin Bus (who have been getting approx 100 a year) and there have been some tri-axle Bus EIreann Double Deck Coaches that would be considerably more expensive and a large number of City buses and single deck coaches delivered for Bus Eireann.

end of the road wrote: »

we don't know if it is a "fact" though. it's a claim by the company that may or may not be true. so in my opinion "allegedly" should be put in as part of your statement.

The company have said it and to my knowledge the union have not disputed that it is true.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

The point I was making was that she is now giving the impression that she thinks so highly of the company that she sees fit to get herself photographed with they guy who is acting CEO of the company, but when it is convenient to her, she will issue press statements doing all she can to criticise Bus Éireann and The NTA, and without realizing it, she will display her ignorance and lack of knowledge about routes operated by Bus Éireann, routes operated with the co-operation of The NTA, including the services operated in her own local area.

She wasn't the only politician to air her view on this, James Lawless of Fianna Fail has also given the same view, as with any issue like this, different people are going to have different views: http://kfmradio.com/news/14102017-1628/kildare-td-claims-kilcock-and-naas-commuters-being-affected-alleged-unofficial

The claims made by her against the drivers, have been responded to, on her facebook page, in comments, under the two particular facebook items she posted, of her, pictured with Ray Hernan.

She has not responded to many of the points made, in reply, to her accusation against drivers. These posts, in response to her, give details on how the bus services operate.

Personally I wouldn't dignify some of the comments on that Facebook thread with responses either because of the amount of profanities and vulgar comments that have been used, and I'd suggest that the drivers would come across a lot better if they did not have to resort to that kind of thing.

Like with most things, people will always have differing opinions on these things, one thing is for sure though that the current situation needs to be dealt with and BE need to start delivering the services they are paid to do so, but drivers also have to realise that due to the companies position, rosters are going to have to be more efficient than before the recent strike.

monument

Just to note: focusing on a person's post, tackling their claims and the math contained within posts is not personal abuse.

Personal abuse / focus is focusing on who the person is, their postings across threads, trying to say or imply who their are etc etc.

-- monument

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

The company have said it and to my knowledge the union have not disputed that it is true.

that doesn't make the claim true. the drivers are innocent until proven guilty.

devnull wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't dignify some of the comments on that Facebook thread with responses either because of the amount of profanities and vulgar comments that have been used, and I'd suggest that the drivers would come across a lot better if they did not have to resort to that kind of thing.

much of the comments have been removed. however, there was 1 sturrer making claims against drivers on there with no evidence and correctly he was challenged. agreed the language wasn't needed but i can't imagine most of us would take kindly to being told about our job or having allegations made against us by people who don't know us or anything about our job.

devnull wrote: »

Like with most things, people will always have differing opinions on these things, one thing is for sure though that the current situation needs to be dealt with and BE need to start delivering the services they are paid to do so, but drivers also have to realise that due to the companies position, rosters are going to have to be more efficient than before the recent strike.

what about the NTA, implementing a service when there wasn't the resources to do it. they don't get off here. i don't believe the staff have a problem with changing the rosters, it's more the changes being implemented.

devnull

end of the road wrote: »

that doesn't make the claim true. the drivers are innocent until proven guilty

much of the comments have been removed. however, there was 1 sturrer making claims against drivers on there with no evidence and correctly he was challenged. agreed the language wasn't needed but i can't imagine most of us would take kindly to being told about our job or having allegations made against us by people who don't know us or anything about our job.

So you won't believe official remarks from Bus Eireann, who would be the only ones that would have the true figures to hand, but you'll believe someone on Facebook posting without any question whatsoever?

what about the NTA, implementing a service when there wasn't the resources to do it. they don't get off here. i don't believe the staff have a problem with changing the rosters, it's more the changes being implemented.

Maybe because the level of staff sickness is impacting the level of resources that are avaliable in order to deliver the service and if staff sickness was at normal levels the service could be delivered?

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

So you won't believe official remarks from Bus Eireann, who would be the only ones that would have the true figures to hand, but you'll believe someone on Facebook posting without any question whatsoever?

i won't simply believe someone posting on facebook no . however when what they say goes with what i have heard from titbits on here and elsewhere i won'tsimply dismiss it either.

devnull wrote: »

Maybe because the level of staff sickness is impacting the level of resources that are avaliable in order to deliver the service and if staff sickness was at normal levels the service could be delivered?

the sickness issue is aledged, the staff are entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty of the claims made by the company in my view.

devnull

end of the road wrote: »

however when what they say goes with what i have heard from titbits on here and elsewhere i won'tsimply dismiss it either.

Can you supply sources for this to back up your claims?

the sickness issue is aledged, the staff are entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty of the claims made by the company in my view.

The company is the official source of sickness records so I'm unsure of what you are asking for here, since these people would be the only ones who could say for sure what the sickness rate was since these are the only ones with access to the information.

Operational staff members and the unions would not have access to HR files in a company about sickness and absence levels so any figures that they would supply would be purely based on guesswork.

The fact that to date the unions have not directly challenged the sickness figures is very telling. If I was a union and such incorrect claims were made about my members I'd directly say they were not true, but they haven't.

AlekSmart

end of the road wrote: »

i won't simply believe someone posting on facebook no . however when what they say goes with what i have heard from titbits on here and elsewhere i won't simply dismiss it either.

The sickness issue is aledged, the staff are entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty of the claims made by the company in my view.

It's probably a bit O/T,but I suspect neither side wishes to have too much light shone into the dark corner of Bus & Coach Drivers health,particularly when "Optimization" of Drivers hours is the new buzzword in the halls of management .

What research is being done,is throwing up some rather worrying statistics in terms of Bus & Coach driving being regarded as a "Hazardous Occupation",a classification which,I suspect,neither Minister Doherty nor CEO Ray Hernan would be too keen to currently enter into much discussion about.

http://www.ilo.org/safework/info/publications/WCMS_250105/lang--en/index.htm

https://www.atu.org/media/news/driving-a-bus-is-harzardous-to-your-health

Transit work is one of the top three jobs in which you face the highest risk of contracting 10 common diseases. Job-related hazards also contribute to the fact that these workers have :eek:120%:eek: above the average rate for 9 chronic diseases.

The scariest finding: 41.5% of the transit workers had hypertension (high blood pressure), compared to 27.6% for all the 214,413 workers studied. High blood pressure leads to all kinds of other health problems, including heart attacks and strokes.

With the specific rostering/scheduling issues now coming to light on the 109/NX,it should not surprise people when staff become wary of working shifts regularly in excess of 12 hours duty time (not all of which is DRIVING time).

The entire Bus & Coach in the UK and Ireland industry is suffering a serious and prolonged Shortage of Drivers.

There are a number of contributory factors,including the age at which one can accquire a "D" Class Licence,the added DCPC Qualifications required to work as a Bus/Coach driver and the fact that the shift patterns and hours expected of a Public Transport Service Driver are far from what most 21 year old + people wish to work,and most 45 year old + people are able to work.

Historically,the industry has tended to solve this conundrum,by employing a high-turnover model,which focused upon poor wage rates,high overtime availability and an expectation that staff would work all the hours God gave them,with no oul nonsense about Family or Work/Life balance stuff.

The opening of the EU labour market,did,for a time,provide the Industry with a ready supply of such young "no questions asked" staff,who have little problem with living in Portacabin,s within Depot complexes and going directly from bunk to cab,often 7 days a week for months on end.

Some Driving staff,when when Family issues or other normal elements of life intervened,would be treated to lectures about how "the Polish/Slovak/Bulgarian lads etc, are great,no oul shyte about time-off and the rest" whilst "you Irish are forever whinging and demanding stuff instead of being glad to have a job".

You'll not have to scratch a shiny new Irish Coach's paintwork too deeply before the above style of stories begin to be heard,with a worrying regularity and corroborating commonality between them.

It is entirely up to the individual whether they want to consider,accept or reject any of this stuff,as most people simply wish their Bus to turn up at the appointed time and get them home safely.

However,if anything positive does come out of this current (entirely avoidable) scenario,it will be that a few more people,customers,staff and legislators will perhaps develop a curiousity about how such services,widely regarded as basic and necessary,are actually provided,in human terms.

With the current focus on Hurricanes and the rest,I would suggest that any possibility of your inbound Driver tomorrrow,having booked on at 0350,being the same Driver to be welcoming you back on board at 1500,for your journey home,should at least be of some interest to a potential passenger,irrespective of operator.

Any notion that Bus/Coach drivers operate to the same regime as their Vehicles and,as such, can therefore be "Optimized" in the same manner,is one doomed to failure,for sure.