Bus Eireann N3/M3 Corridor Route & Timetable Changes - Phase 3

Thanks for posting that cannon-fodder. I have a lot of sympathies for the drivers. A BE driver I know in Navan (an excellent driver by all accounts) echoed the same sentiments. He said moral was on the floor. Worrying times.

tom23 wrote: »

Thanks for posting that cannon-fodder. I have a lot of sympathies for the drivers. A BE driver I know in Navan (an excellent driver by all accounts) echoed the same sentiments. He said moral was on the floor. Worrying times.

No problem. It does beg the question, if this route was farmed out to private operators and this was the result there would be uproar. The national carrier should be held to account with the regulator and fined for not meeting expected service levels.
Why if the national carrier has lost other routes to private carriers is there not more drivers rather than less for roistering?

Cannon_fodder wrote: »

No problem. It does beg the question, if this route was farmed out to private operators and this was the result there would be uproar. The national carrier should be held to account with the regulator and fined for not meeting expected service levels.
Why if the national carrier has lost other routes to private carriers is there not more drivers rather than less for roistering?

If the route was privatized, as I understand it, it would be carried out, under the rules outlined by the National Transport Authority, and that Bus Éireann can't just give over the route to a private operator, without the co-operation and instruction of the NTA.

My understanding is that The NTA fine Bus Éireann, if it does not operate services and timetables that have been approved by The NTA in conjunction with Bus Éireann, for example in the case of disputes and strikes.

What regulator would hold Bus Éireann to account, other than The NTA?

If the Dublin Navan Bus Éireann route is ever privatised, the annoyance of the passengers should be directed at the NTA, as such a measure would only happen, with the approval of the NTA.

TheQuietFella wrote: »

But isn't this though the overall plan of the BE management to put it under as much strain as it can before it possibly crashes! They obviously don't have the drivers to commit to these additional services and if they were to draw others from Dublin Bus that then would impact upon their services and possibly strengthen the hand of the private company who won 10% of their routes! If it were to be sold it would be just another Irish company like many others to be flogged to a foreign fund who will milk it for all it can!

As well as that, our great leader Leo fancy socks Varadkar doesn't really have a commitment towards the retaining Bus Éireann.

He talked of the company being "not essential".

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/bus-eireann-leo-varadkar-suggests-allowing-firm-to-fold-446697.html

https://rte.ie/r.html?rii=b9_21153260_135_31-03-2017_

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I wonder if he wasn't travelling in a government car would he be saying the same? It just goes to show in my view at least the contempt they show for the job that these drivers do! Private operators do not have either the vehicles or the staff to operate any service in Dublin alone. Could you imagine the brown envelopes that would be changing hands if they divided the services between the private operators? One Indian and loads of cowboys!

I think that when Leo Varadkar makes comments, like he did in the interview, that he doesn't appreciate the difference in using public transport in places like Dublin, from where you can get to other parts of the city, and the country, much easier, with the Bus or Rail services available within Dublin and from Dublin, than you can by using public transport in rural areas, where services to and from locations are far less frequent.

There are locations in rural areas, with no bus services at all, where the nearest bus or rail service might be five or six miles away, and there are people in those locations who have never got into the habit of using public transport regularly.

There are many very good private coach operators running services, but many of them do not serve intermediate stops to and from Dublin, and in the comments Leo Varadkar made, I think he doesn't appreciate issues like having a more frequent connectivity between Dublin to and from intermediate towns, or the advantage of having regular frequent connectivity of buses between towns, outside Dublin.

For example, Bus Éireann and the NTA, over recent years have implemented improved frequency of connections of services between Laytown, Drogheda, Navan, and Trim, as well as Kells, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath, Ashbourne.

I know Bus Éireann gets a subsidy to operate these routes, but I am just not sure that other bus companies would have the interest in operating such frequent services, or services later on the evening and night, to and from Dublin, even if a subsidy was available to them.

Many of them currently don't, even though they are different routes to those operated by Bus Éireann, and as far as I know, there isn't anything legally stopping them from operating later routes, as long as they are not identical to routes operated by any other company.

Whatsdastory wrote: »

Is there a need for 3 buses an hour on the NX Route?
Maybe from 7am to 9am & 4pm to 6pm, the 20 minute service is required.

But why cant the NX run every half hour and maybe then all the current problems with not enough buses/staff could be avoided.

I think you are correct on this.

I'm not sure it needs to be as frequent as every 20 minutes throughout the whole day and evening.

Often the NX arrives to pick up in Navan Market Square around the same time as the 109, and one of the buses would accommodate everyone at the bus stop.

I think that the every 20 minutes schedule, is not taking into account issues like traffic congestion, which I understand is contributing to the service, on occasions, not leaving from either Dublin or Navan at exactly every 20 minutes.

Also I don't think there's enough people at either Navan Market Square, or Johnstown, waiting for each of the services throughout the day, at times outside of early morning to Dublin, and then in the early evening home from Dublin, to fill buses that just go to Dublin.

I guess the intention is to encourage people who have never used buses regularly from Navan to Dublin, to start using the new NX service, but unless that happens, I'm not sure for how long such a frequent service can be operated.

As I understand it the Bus Éireann drivers indicated to Bus Éireann management and the NTA, before the service began, that being on time all the time, was too ambitious an expectation, on a service that is scheduled every 20 minutes, to and from Navan and Dublin.

The comments about absenteeism of drivers, made by a Bus Éireann spokesperson, cited in the RTE news item below dated 26th September 2017, do not concede, or entertain the possibility, that perhaps the new NX services are scheduled so tightly, every 20 minutes, and as a result, do not factor in possible delays, as a result of traffic.

I think, now, that what might be happening, is that particular NX services, upon leaving from Dublin, are being held up in traffic, and as a result do not manage to leave from Navan back to Dublin, at the particular scheduled time, and then there might a knock on effect, of delays, or indeed cancellations, of some of the next few services, for which particular buses are intended to be used?

That might explain why the listings of "disruptions", have been posted on the Bus Éireann website, so near to the time, that the cancelled services were originally scheduled to operate.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0926/907636-bus-eireann/

Whatsdastory wrote: »

Ye 20 minutes is crazy i think , sum Dublin Bus routes only run twice an hour!
Thats the answer to current problems , if anyone from bus eireann is reading this , change the service to every half hour and problem sovled! But again this is Bus Eireann, so might be changed by 2020!

I have not been on the NX route yet myself though, so i may be off the mark here.
Can somebody tell me who uses it , if it is full or even near full at off peak times?

I assume it is full at peak times ?? If not full at peak times, then what a disaster then!!

Another problem i have with the NX Route is not one goes via the Port Tunnel!! The 1730 direct bus to Navan via Port Tunnel and M3 was such a luxury! I do know that the new NX route now goes via dorset street, but surely they could of put one bus at least to go via the PT.

I would imagine, if enough people send submissions in to Bus Éireann and the NTA, and show that the Port Tunnel route was popular, that such a service would be re-introduced?

As I understand it, it was through submissions from passengers, sent in to Bus Éireann and the NTA, that the two services to Dublin in the morning from Navan, and the two services from Dublin, were introduced in the first place, a few years ago?

Yes horseburger i think it was these submissions that got the PT Route .

Ok rough maths here , open to correction on below:

From 0540 to 0030 Mon to Fri, 53 NX Buses leave navan every 20 minutes
Majority if not all of these bus are the double decker buses? I think. These hold 70 - 80 people?
53 * 80 = 4240. Say 4000 as a rough figure of capacity of number of seats leaving Navan to Dublin each day.
How many people actually travel from Navan to Dublin on a typical weekday? Id guess 2500? Maybe 2800 max??
Again i may be way out on above figures, only rough estimates, open to correction.

Dont forget the 109 + 109A also operate every half hour / hourly from Navan.

Whatsdastory wrote: »

Yes horseburger i think it was these submissions that got the PT Route .

Ok rough maths here , open to correction on below:

From 0540 to 0030 Mon to Fri, 53 NX Buses leave navan every 20 minutes
Majority if not all of these bus are the double decker buses? I think. These hold 70 - 80 people?
53 * 80 = 4240. Say 4000 as a rough figure of capacity of number of seats leaving Navan to Dublin each day.
How many people actually travel from Navan to Dublin on a typical weekday? Id guess 2500? Maybe 2800 max??
Again i may be way out on above figures, only rough estimates, open to correction.

Dont forget the 109 + 109A also operate every half hour / hourly from Navan.

Indeed, the 109 had served Navan half hourly, but it was between the services that left Kells at 15 past the hour and the 109s that left Cavan on the hour.

The 109 from Kells to Dublin continues to serve Navan Market Square, hourly at 35 past the hourly, except between roughly 6am and 8am.

The 109A is hourly from Navan to Dublin Airport and DCU during the day.

It is on the services during the night to and from Kells, that the 109A serves Bus Aras, so during the day the 109A does not serve Dublin City Centre.

The new 109X service from Cavan serves the Abbey Road Navan stop on the opposite side of the road to the fire station, roughly every two hours, as opposed to the hourly 109s from Cavan that used to pick up and drop off at Navan Market Square.

There were certain 109 buses from Cavan in the morning that used to avoid Navan and Dunshaughlin, for example the 6am from Cavan to Dublin that stopped in Virginia and Kells and then on to Dublin, but many of the hourly 109s from Cavan used to serve Navan and Dunshaughlin, while some covered Navan but avoided Dunshaughlin.

The new 109X between Cavan and Dublin does not serve Dunshaughlin at all.

Before the change in the services on 17th September, the 109 was scheduled to serve Navan every 30 minutes. This was through the 109 services that left Cavan on the hour that were due in Navan at 5 past the next hour, and the 109's that started in Kells at 15 past the hour that were due in Navan at 35 past the hour.

I can understand why Bus Éireann and the NTA have increased services between Navan and Dublin, but perhaps the frequency does not need to be every 20 minutes throughout the whole day and evening.

I guess with less 109s now serving Market Square, and with the 109X serving the Navan Abbey Road fire station stop, it was decided to increase services to and from Navan Market Square and Dublin with the new NX services.

It is difficult for any bus company to make changes that pleases everybody who uses those services. I imagine Bus Éireann received numerous submissions from passengers unhappy about 109 services from Navan also serving Dunshaughlin, Clonee and Blanchardstown Shopping Centre.

Kells passengers don't like going through Navan. Virginia passengers don't want to go through Kells. Dunshaughlin passengers don't want to go through Clonee.

http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435589-109.pdf
http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1473263565-109A.pdf
http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435671-109X.pdf

I'm aware and others are aware of what I said, and the wording of those articles are being portrayed incorrectly

When they say have Dublin bus operate some routes, that was the media taking it out of proportion, it was only a number of drivers temporarily transferring to bus Eireann to fill gaps, using bus Eireann vehicles on their services.

Also, can you stop boasting what I've said to other places without expressed permission, it's even annoying me.

1815 departure from Busaras on 109X last night:

* bus didn't arrive at Busaras till 1819

* private hire coach, had LEAP reader but driver unfamiliar with it so many travelled free - lost revenue.

* Driver loudly announced several time he "hadn't a clue" where Kells was or what routing to take.

* Ended up running via Port Tunnell (at the urging of some pax) thus missing out several stops. Also bypassed Blanch slip.

* In mitigation, bus was full anyway, however pax at missed stops will not be aware that service has gone and will just have waited with no info.

* Arrived Kells on schedule @1935

* paying homage to a grand old Bus Eireann tradition, even though this was a private operator, the clock in the coach displayed the wrong time. :-)

C635

horseburger wrote: »

I guess those passengers that requested the driver take the port tunnel, didn't have much regard for the passengers waiting at the intermediate stops.

They couldn't have got on the bus anyway. So no point sitting in traffic when the port tunnel was the quickest route.

To be fair, it is more the responsibility of BE to be regulating the loading than it is of the paying (or in this case freebie) passengers.

Loading beside us was a BE double-decker on a "short" 109 (Dunshaughlin only) very lightly loaded. Maybe this bus and regular driver could have done the 109X leaving the lower capacity coach and guest driver to work the short.

Some passengers (including myself) did explain proper route but the voices calling for PT were more persuasive.

C635

AnnaSophia wrote: »

I've emailed Bus Eireann to no avail, so hopefully someone here can help - do any of the 109 services pick up on Leeson St in the evening anymore?

Unfortunately (for both of us) the answer is no - they all run from Busaras now.

C635

Conway635 wrote: »

Unfortunately (for both of us) the answer is no - they all run from Busaras now.

C635

That's what I was afraid of! Thanks for your reply