How relevant to you is the controversy over feminism?

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Well in my workplace there were three posts up for grabs and the shortlists were all women, either a huge coincidence or something more nefarious.

My bet is on the latter.

I think he's looking for signs of discrimination where men are obviously being discriminated against in favor of women. The problem with that though is that we've already been down that road previously (male discrimination of females) and it was cut out as being sexist and unfair. They're not going to repeat the same mistakes by making obvious indications of favor based on gender. (although I think the signs are there but any suggestion of such makes you unreasonable and a woman "hater")

Now, I can point to all the women's rights initiatives which are both obviously feminist in their mandate (they promote themselves as such) and also have the full backing of the government or "equality" watchdogs/organisations... but that's not going to be obvious enough.

Same with the articles in the media praising the introduction of quotas in industries which previously had greater numbers of men in positions of authority, but than now the ratios have swung the other way around. Not towards equality, (although it's claimed as such), but where women hold the superior numbers.

But that's not obvious discrimination against men. Seems obvious to me, when a persons gender (female) gains extra benefits or influence over gaining a position, than a person who is male (and supposedly males over represented in an industry... which makes a mockery of the idea with individualism)

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

I think he's looking for signs of discrimination where men are obviously being discriminated against in favor of women. The problem with that though is that we've already been down that road previously (male discrimination of females) and it was cut out as being sexist and unfair. They're not going to repeat the same mistakes by making obvious indications of favor based on gender.

Now, I can point to all the women's rights initiatives which are both obviously feminist in their mandate (they promote themselves as such) and also have the full backing of the government or "equality" watchdogs/organisations... but that's not going to be obvious enough.

Same with the articles in the media praising the introduction of quotas in industries which previously had greater numbers of men in positions of authority, but than now the ratios have swung the other way around. Not towards equality, (although it's claimed as such), but where women hold the superior numbers.

But that's not obvious discrimination against men. Seems obvious to me, when a persons gender (female) gains extra benefits or influence over gaining a position, than a person who is male (and supposedly males over represented in an industry... which makes a mockery of the idea with individualism)

All I can see in my place is some very inept female managers and some rather pissed off blokes doing all the team's work!!!

The "Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Unit" can bask in the glory of their progress, but the staff will suffer.

iptba

What Happens to #MeToo When a Feminist Is the Accused?

Nimrod Reitman accused his former N.Y.U. graduate school adviser, Avital Ronell, of sexually harassing him, and the university found her responsible. But some leading feminist scholars have supported her in ways that echo the defenses of male harassers.CreditCaitlin Ochs for The New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/nyregion/sexual-harassment-nyu-female-professor.html

“Diane Davis, chair of the department of rhetoric at the University of Texas-Austin, who also signed the letter to the university supporting Professor Ronell, said she and her colleagues were particularly disturbed that, as they saw it, Mr. Reitman was using Title IX, a feminist tool, to take down a feminist.“

From the comments:

The letter defending Ronell is terrifying in its use and display of raw power to influence, to intimidate and to silence.

The signatories to the letter represent the Who's Who in the field of literary theory, chairpersons and decision makers in hiring and tenure. The equivalent of such a letter in the #MeToo movement would be, unimaginably, a letter in support of Weinstein signed by every studio head, every powerful agent, the most prominent of A-listers of Hollywood.

It demonstrates starkly why victims would comply to the abuse and then later remain silent.

Whether consensual or not, the kind of language the professor used about the student in the emails evidences a wild violation of student/professor boundaries and this professor should certainly be removed. The professor was a mature professional at the time of the behavior and the student in his 20s and without secure employment, a tremendous imbalance of power, the kind well known to induce victims to go along to get along. No more evidence is needed than what was published here to conclude that Reitman was clearly the victim of sexual harassment and it is very telling that the professor’s behavior is being defended.

iptba

I just watched a Euronews piece on Iceland, which supposedly has the highest gender equality rating (still as I recall if there was a bigger gap in favour of women, this wasn't considered gender inequality)

It mentioned that a law was brought in this year that men and women had to be paid the same https://www.independent.ie/world-news/made-in-reykjavik-iceland-imposes-gender-pay-equality-laws-on-all-employers-36458914.html.

The programme brought us into a company, IKEA, where we are told, the logistics department was all-male previously and now it's all female.

It then discussed that there was legislation that there had to be equality on boards of companies. It was said that they are finding it difficult to find women who want to be on the boards.

In education, gender studies is compulsory in 27 of the 33 high schools. The teacher seemed like a feminist. She said that they have the opportunity to "mould minds".

Then we are brought to a kindergarten. For most of the day, children are kept separate in single sex groups. The activities and toys are gender-neutral.

iptba

From today's Irish Times:

#MeToo activist Asia Argento settles own sexual assault complaint
Italian actor accused of sexually assaulting then 17-year-old actor and musician

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/metoo-activist-asia-argento-settles-own-sexual-assault-complaint-1.3601808
---

But in the months that followed her revelations about Weinstein last October, Argento quietly arranged to pay $380,000 to her own accuser: Jimmy Bennett, a young actor and rock musician who said she had sexually assaulted him in a California hotel room years earlier, when he was only two months past his 17th birthday. She was 37. The age of consent in California is 18.

---

The fallout from “a sexual battery” was so traumatic that it hindered Bennett’s work and income and threatened his mental health, according to a notice of intent to sue that his lawyer sent in November to Richard Hofstetter, Bourdain’s longtime lawyer, who was also representing Argento at the time.

---

For Bennett, seeing Argento present herself as a victim of sexual assault was too much to bear, his lawyer wrote, and called up memories of their hotel reunion. “His feelings about that day were brought to the forefront recently when Ms Argento took the spotlight as one of the many victims of Harvey Weinstein,” Sattro wrote in the notice of intent to sue.

H3llR4iser

Quite a bit of controversy that's causing.

Not sure if this is true - the same "innocent until proven guilty" approach MUST be applied in all cases; I'll be curious to see what the reactions will be should the allegations be proven to be real - I anticipate an "emotional trauma" angle.

Bootlegger

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Quite a bit of controversy that's causing.

Not sure if this is true - the same "innocent until proven guilty" approach MUST be applied in all cases; I'll be curious to see what the reactions will be should the allegations be proven to be real - I anticipate an "emotional trauma" angle.

'Innocent until proven guilty' never applied to any of the accused men in the metoo witch hunt. There have been suicides from this.

When I first heard this I did the stereotypical 'semi attractive cougar gives young guy the ride? Nice!' but having read up on it, she's known him since he was 7!

Her career should be over.

LostinBlanch

Bootlegger wrote: »

'Innocent until proven guilty' never applied to any of the accused men in the metoo witch hunt. There has been suicides from this.

When I first heard this I did the stereotypical 'semi attractive cougar gives young guy the ride? Nice!' but having read up on it, she's known him since he was 7!

Her career should be over.

Exactly, I just came on here to post this. Grooming anyone? If the genders were reversed can we imagine what the media reaction would be?

Of course we know that there will be no similar reaction in this case. I’d love be to be proved wrong, but I wouldn’t hold out much hope.

H3llR4iser

Bootlegger wrote: »

'Innocent until proven guilty' never applied to any of the accused men in the metoo witch hunt. There has been suicides from this.

That was precisely my point...

Eric Cartman

Bootlegger wrote: »

'Innocent until proven guilty' never applied to any of the accused men in the metoo witch hunt. There has been suicides from this.

When I first heard this I did the stereotypical 'semi attractive cougar gives young guy the ride? Nice!' but having read up on it, she's known him since he was 7!

Her career should be over.

most of the stories use 'groomed' 'seduced' not straight up raped the guy, say it papers say rapist in a story talking about women, they exist.

Bootlegger

Eric Cartman wrote: »

most of the stories use 'groomed' 'seduced' not straight up raped the guy, say it papers say rapist in a story talking about women, they exist.

The media is in full on damage limitation mode on this.

H3llR4iser

Bootlegger wrote: »

The media is in full on damage limitation mode on this.

Yes, in a nutshell they have no idea what to say. They've been throwing one man after the other under the proverbial bus for not so much as even being accused of harassing somebody, but for merely refusing to join the chorus - now, they are threading the waters of caution. How convenient.

From what I'm seeing around the 'netz, however, the risk here is another one - is that the "stupid angry internet people" will make a vengeful mess of this.

The fact is that Asia Argento is objectively somebody who's very easy to dislike; Especially in Italy, the vast majority of people deem her to be a talentless, derangedly arrogant lunatic whose biggest achievement is that of carrying around famed director Dario Argento's name and genes.

Regardless of the validity or lack thereof of such assessment, it's important that the commentary doesn't focus solely on the person but on the situation, avoiding the all too easy "serves her well" pitfalls. The media would have a field trip with that - just the same way they brushed aside and chastised every single attempt taken to have an in-depth look at the whole #MeToo situation under the "hatred for Asia Argento" or for women in general chapter.

This is a prime opportunity to highlight the gulf in treatment that exist when a man or a woman are accused of a crime (sexual in particular, but I would say not limited to) by the media, which in turn influences public opinion and sometimes even courts.

iptba

I came across this today.
So presumably they are tackling what they perceive as a gender imbalance at events with ... a gender imbalance in the opposite direction

@300seconds_IRL
300Seconds: a series of events to empower our peers particularly women to speak publicly @mmarymckenna @claremcgee80

https://twitter.com/dcsdbusiness/status/954054110617141248

https://twitter.com/cmcmns23/status/978740361358127104

iptba

I'm pleased to see many people on Twitter challenging the narrative that what happened with Serena Williams was sexist
https://twitter.com/Erin_Molan/status/1038716103973732352
https://twitter.com/fifiharoon/status/1038707641520988160
https://twitter.com/AnnaK_4ever/status/1038751494093324295
https://twitter.com/reddmahoney/status/1038621179945385984?s=11

iptba

Sean Penn says spirit of much of #MeToo movement is to 'divide men and women'
Actor Sean Penn gave his thoughts on the #MeToo movement, saying it's "too black and white."
by Scott Stump / Sep.17.2018 /

https://www.today.com/popculture/sean-penn-says-spirit-much-metoo-movement-divide-men-women-t137531

iptba

Ewan MacKenna: Women in sport have been fighting hard for parity, clearly on this occasion it didn't suit some

Who'd be a manager? Actually, scratch that, for there's a more pertinent question to ask. Who'd be a male manager of a female team?

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/ewan-mackenna-women-in-sport-have-been-fighting-hard-for-parity-clearly-on-this-occasion-it-didnt-suit-some-37334309.html

"It's very sensitive and personal to a certain number of girls that have walked away. These issues aren't to be dragged through the public," she said, before hinting at those issues, allowing them to be dragged through the public domain in an ill-informed manner, and reminding that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. "We didn't feel it was a safe environment to be in so we decided to leave," she said.

And then Staunton left such an open but also a closed comment hanging out there for all to see.

Here's the problem though. Be honest around what comes to mind when a group of women, many mere teens, quit a team because they "didn't feel it was a safe environment"? It's not even a year since the Tom Humphries case and, rightly or wrongly, you think of either physical or sexual abuse. That grabs a concerned attention that has been staring down Leahy's name ever since.

Language is powerful in such spheres and those speaking out need to be careful for, without evidence given to relevant authorities, they have no right to so lazily flash certain sentiments about. Yet that happened as silence after the brief chatter made sure innuendo formed and prospered.

Leahy did no such wrong, as we now know. These days, however, it can be hard to stuff the genie back into the bottle. That's because the public don't want detail, they want a headline and outrage and a cause and a crusade.

iptba

https://twitter.com/bbcsimonwarr/status/1043084549037727749

iptba

Woman pours bleach on men to stop them from manspreading

https://www.joe.ie/news/woman-pours-bleach-men-stop-manspreading-642050

iptba

Leading Irish authors sign letter against ‘forced resignation’ of editor over #MeToo essay
John Banville, Colm Tóibín, Roy Foster among over 100 writers to express dismay over departure of New York Review of Books editor Ian Buruma

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/leading-irish-authors-sign-letter-against-forced-resignation-of-editor-over-metoo-essay-1.3641430

LostinBlanch

Apologies for the long post, but I found this interesting.

Previously I posted about the Sokal Affair where Alan Sokal, a physics professor at New York University and University College London. In 1996, Sokal submitted an article to Social Text, an academic journal of postmodern cultural studies. The submission was an experiment to test the journal's intellectual rigor and, specifically, to investigate whether "a leading North American journal of cultural studies would publish an article liberally salted with nonsense if (a) it sounded good and (b) it flattered the editors' ideological preconceptions". It caused a stir at the time as it showed up the lack of intellectual rigour of postmodernist theory which has been used to underpin the academic argument for gender theory. The phenomenons known Cultural Marxism and SJWs are also closely linked with postmodernist theory.

Now twenty two years later three academics have gone one step further and sent bogus papers to academic journals which were peer reviewed and accepted for publication.

For the past year scholars James Lindsay, Helen Pluckrose, and Peter Boghossian have sent fake papers to various academic journals which they describe as specialising in activism or “grievance studies.” Their stated mission has been to expose how easy it is to get “absurdities and morally fashionable political ideas published as legitimate academic research.”

To date, their project has been successful: seven papers have passed through peer review and have been published, including a 3000 word excerpt of Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf, rewritten in the language of Intersectionality theory :eek: and published in the Gender Studies journal Affilia.

Some other academics have responded to the fact that these papers were peer reviewed and published.

One published paper proposed that dog parks are “rape-condoning spaces.” Another, entitled “Our Struggle is My Struggle: Solidarity Feminism as an Intersectional Reply to Neoliberal and Choice Feminism” reworked, and substantially altered, part of Mein Kampf. The most shocking, (not published, its status is “revise and resubmit”) is a “Feminist Approach to Pedagogy.” It proposes “experiential reparations” as a corrective for privileged students. These include sitting on the floor, wearing chains, or being purposely spoken over. Reviewers have commented that the authors risk exploiting underprivileged students by burdening them with an expectation to teach about privilege.

So there you have it, if "A Feminist Approach to Pedagogy" is accepted academically, how much of these postmodernist underpinnings of feminist theory, privilege, SJW theory have any academic validity at all?

Keyzer

Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat - Hilary Clinton

Wow. Just Wow. This is astounding.

Surely the man (the vast majority of combat soldiers are men) who gets his head blown off in combat is the primary victim?

I'm going back to the watches and timepieces forum - this thread just boils my piss everytime I come have a look.

iptba

I came across the following on Sean Gallagher's page:
https://seangallagher2018.com/my-vision/

Putting Women at the Heart of Politics

My life has been shaped by countless inspirational women, my mother Ann, my wife Trish and my daughter Lucy to name but a few. On 2nd April 2019, 100 years to the day Countess Markievicz was appointed our first female Minister, I will convene an all-island gathering of past and present female elected representatives to mark the contribution of Countess Markievicz and their role in continuing her legacy.

This summit at Áras an Uachtaráin will also bring together the next generation of female leaders and in doing so, we can be confident that our future is bright and truly representative of the nation we have become.

I decided to do a quick search and came across the following:

The six presidential candidates talk feminism - Which one says they are not a feminist?
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election-2018/the-six-presidential-candidates-talk-feminism-which-one-says-they-are-not-a-feminist-37414046.html

5 of the 6 said they were feminists; the only person who said they were not is Peter Casey

I don't know of any similar interview asking about candidates' interest in men's issues.

iptba

Ireland's first and largest film festival, the 63rd Cork Film Festival, which will feature films with themes centred on LGBT, mental health, child poverty, gender equality and human rights is set to take place next month. The festival, which runs from November 9-18, will showcase Irish and international films with a focus on current global issues.

"Carmel Winters’ highly anticipated and award-winning second feature Float like a Butterfly is a special film that fiercely challenges patriarchy and stereotypes. Carmel, and many of the cast and crew, will be in attendance for this European premiere on 9 November.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/cork-film-festival-launches-2018-programme-of-250-films-876389.html

Bobtheman

I have an issue with metoo tweats-they dont follow natural justice or any justice for that matter. Make your complaints to the Police not social media. I accept that it seems that a majority of these claim have tended to be true but not all.

Zulu

Bobtheman wrote: »

I have an issue with metoo tweats-they dont follow natural justice ...

I always felt that the baying mob was the most "natural"; in fairness, it's probably been around since we were picking ticks off each others backs.






<joking aside, I full accept your point>

iptba

(209 seconds)
My Problem With Mansplaining: Jonathan Pie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9pESjtw6GA

iptba

(UK)

Senior police officer: Investigate burglaries and violent crime not misogyny
Sara Thornton says treating misogyny as a hate crime could not be a priority for a service that is over-stretched".

https://news.sky.com/story/senior-police-officer-investigate-burglaries-and-violent-crime-not-misogyny-11541512

iptba

(For what is worth)

Lorraine Courtney: 'The big picture is that women have never had it so good'

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/lorraine-courtney-the-big-picture-is-that-women-have-never-had-it-so-good-37587817.html

Keyzer

iptba wrote: »

(For what is worth)
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/lorraine-courtney-the-big-picture-is-that-women-have-never-had-it-so-good-37587817.html

I agree with a lot of what Lorraine Courtney says in this article, women in this country have never had it so good. Change takes time, in many cases too long. So I welcome this piece especially as its written by a woman.

But, and its a big but, she shot herself in the foot with the below:

We have a higher life expectancy than men - four years higher. We have multiple orgasms, hair straighteners and more female TDs than ever before.

Why derail the article and its message with such a trivial statement about orgasms and hair straighteners? Surely there are more important issues for women than having an orgasm and making your hair look fabulous.

silverharp

a new york senator ....

Kirsten Gillibrand
‏
Verified account

@SenGillibrand
19h19 hours ago
More
Our future is:

Female
Intersectional
Powered by our belief in one another.

And we’re just getting started.

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