Pro14 2017-18 season thread

Erik Shin

Clegg wrote: »

James Davies is out for 3 months with a shoulder injury. Huge blow for the Scarlets. Best openside flanker in the Pro 14 right now.

Ah he's no Tommy O'Donnell like

Former Former

Erik Shin wrote: »

Ah he's no Tommy O'Donnell like

Indeed he's not.

So it's a huge blow for the Scarlets.

bilston

Blut2 wrote: »

Jeremy Melodic Carp wrote: »

The problem is more than he's a marquee Welsh player and it doesn't say a whole pile for the league that he's leaving for a mid-tier English side.

Between Madigan getting £500k a year and Biggar getting £600k a year I think its more indicative that the English teams either a) have too much money or b) are terrible with their money. Or maybe a combination of both a) and b).

If the Pro14 gets an influx of cash from the Saffers over the next few seasons it'll definitely help teams compete financially at least.

Well it also goes to show how difficult it will be for the provinces and the IRFU to keep the likes of Byrne and Carbery in Ireland in the future. I believe that Ulster had a serious battle.on their hands to keep Jackson last time round. Quality out halfs are pretty rare beasts.

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

James Davies is out for 3 months with a shoulder injury. Huge blow for the Scarlets. Best openside flanker in the Pro 14 right now.

That's crap news for the league. Quality player.

Tigerandahalf

bilston wrote: »

Well it also goes to show how difficult it will be for the provinces and the IRFU to keep the likes of Byrne and Carbery in Ireland in the future. I believe that Ulster had a serious battle.on their hands to keep Jackson last time round. Quality out halfs are pretty rare beasts.

Carbery is very raw. His goalkicking is really poor for a 10. He is not going to attract anything too soon.

Byrne is a better prospect at 10. I fear Carbery could be another Madigan/Olding type player - plenty of talent but not good enough in any one position to count. Even at full back Joey looks very dodgy under the high ball and his tackling will have to improve a lot. I love to watch him just like Madigan but time will tell.

Dave_The_Sheep

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Carbery is very raw. His goalkicking is really poor for a 10. He is not going to attract anything too soon.

Byrne is a better prospect at 10. I fear Carbery could be another Madigan/Olding type player - plenty of talent but not good enough in any one position to count. Even at full back Joey looks very dodgy under the high ball and his tackling will have to improve a lot. I love to watch him just like Madigan but time will tell.

While I don't disagree with your assessment of potential (who knows at this point), his lack of goal-kicking prowess might not be as much a disadvantage in somewhere like France where it's not necessarily always the 10 making the kicks at goal.

Dog Botherer

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

While I don't disagree with your assessment of potential (who knows at this point), his lack of goal-kicking prowess might not be as much a disadvantage in somewhere like France where it's not necessarily always the 10 making the kicks at goal.

No reason why he couldn't do the same at Leinster honestly, Ringrose is an excellent goalkicker. Even at international level pairing him with Cooney would solve the goalkicking issue.

Just needs to work on his game management.

PTH2009

Made sense of this but took a while. Cheetahs and Kings get a break during European Cup weekends and are getting the Xmas and New year's weekends matchdays off too (there playing 10 Rounds each in the 2017 part of the season while the Celtic clubs play 12 rounds) but cheetahs vs Kings will play against each other for Rounds 11/12 (11-12 Jan 18 ECC weekends)

At least the South African lads will get a summer holiday in decemebr but then again they will be playing no rugby during there Winter (May/June/July)

swiwi_

So...are we still happy about the new SA teams...

They bring money but not a lot else judging by the score lines from week 1 and 2.

Super Rugby was foolish to expand and I for one am glad it's going back to 15 teams.

Maybe after curry cup they get a bit better, we see I suppose.

They better improve though, otherwise once the novelty goes it's just SA versions of Treviso & Zebre, and that will wear thin quickly.

Subpopulus

swiwi_ wrote: »

So...are we still happy about the new SA teams...

They bring money but not a lot else judging by the score lines from week 1 and 2.

Super Rugby was foolish to expand and I for one am glad it's going back to 15 teams.

Maybe after curry cup they get a bit better, we see I suppose.

They better improve though, otherwise once the novelty goes it's just SA versions of Treviso & Zebre, and that will wear thin quickly.

Bit early to say. We'll see how they perform at home. Even with the travel distance and the altitude I still don't see them winning too many games though...

thomond2006

swiwi_ wrote: »

So...are we still happy about the new SA teams...

They bring money but not a lot else judging by the score lines from week 1 and 2.

Super Rugby was foolish to expand and I for one am glad it's going back to 15 teams.

Maybe after curry cup they get a bit better, we see I suppose.

They better improve though, otherwise once the novelty goes it's just SA versions of Treviso & Zebre, and that will wear thin quickly.

Connacht, Munster, Scarlets and Ulster weren't exactly the easiest four opponents to start off with. The Kings look far better than the Cheetahs as it stands. They are bringing more intensity and look like they have a coaching staff. The Cheetahs are a shambles defensively and look like they're the Saffer team that's been thrown together. Having said that, the Cheetahs have split their coaching team between their Pro14 and CC squads so they have an excuse!

All eyes on the Leinster and Zebre trip to SA now. A lot of people are writing this off too quickly, partly IMO because it's fashionable to shít on the league.

bilston

swiwi_ wrote: »

So...are we still happy about the new SA teams...

They bring money but not a lot else judging by the score lines from week 1 and 2.

Super Rugby was foolish to expand and I for one am glad it's going back to 15 teams.

Maybe after curry cup they get a bit better, we see I suppose.

They better improve though, otherwise once the novelty goes it's just SA versions of Treviso & Zebre, and that will wear thin quickly.

Yep I'm delighted to have them on board, judging them now would be a mistake anyway.

Iompair

It'll be next season before we can get a proper feel for the SA teams. No real lead-in into this season and no rest from super rugby. They'll have a chance to recruit properly and get a real preseason in for 18/19.

They could even be a different animal after their Christmas break.

thomond2006

Both the Kings and Cheetahs might be able to pick some players from the other provinces once the Currie Cup ends and players are out of contract.

molloyjh

Yeah, the dash to get the competition set up didn't afford either SA team much of a chance to prepare properly. Kings lost a good few players between the announcement of their departure from SR to their joining the Pro14, and as thomand mentioned Cheetahs are caught between Currie Cup commitments and the Pro14 at the moment. We may need to write this season off for them in general and hold off making a judgement until next season.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, the dash to get the competition set up didn't afford either SA team much of a chance to prepare properly. Kings lost a good few players between the announcement of their departure from SR to their joining the Pro14, and as thomand mentioned Cheetahs are caught between Currie Cup commitments and the Pro14 at the moment. We may need to write this season off for them in general and hold off making a judgement until next season.

I know to many it needed to happen this year or not at all, but sometimes it's better to get things right from the start. If there are 'a lot of easy games in the pro14' it wont do much for the competition even if it's just for a few years.

This weekend is the worst weekend of celtic rugby I can remember since the weekend we lost at home to Dragons.

Still, will be good to see how the mini tour goes.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

I know to many it needed to happen this year or not at all, but sometimes it's better to get things right from the start. If there are 'a lot of easy games in the pro14' it wont do much for the competition even if it's just for a few years.

This weekend is the worst weekend of celtic rugby I can remember since the weekend we lost at home to Dragons.

Still, will be good to see how the mini tour goes.

It had to happen this year or the two SA sides would have gone out of existence.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

It had to happen this year or the two SA sides would have gone out of existence.

Expansion of the pro12 didn't *have* to happen this year. Expansion of the pro12 to save these two teams did.

Blut2

It was far easier for SARU to move two more-or-less intact teams over whole hog this season though. It would have been much, much more difficult for them to create two brand new franchises from the ground up in a few years time for the purposes of expanding into the Pro12/14. And for them to sell the idea to players, fans and financial backers.

The Pro12 saw a rare good opportunity to expand and jumped at it. Its a risk, but given the growing financial clout of the English/French teams they had to do something. Doing nothing and just letting things continue as-is would just see a continual bleeding of the best talent from the league away to wealthier markets.

errlloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, the dash to get the competition set up didn't afford either SA team much of a chance to prepare properly. Kings lost a good few players between the announcement of their departure from SR to their joining the Pro14, and as thomand mentioned Cheetahs are caught between Currie Cup commitments and the Pro14 at the moment. We may need to write this season off for them in general and hold off making a judgement until next season.

I don't think we can give the Cheetahs that excuse tbh. They sent their absolute first string on tour. The currie cup was as much a distraction for them this weekend as the B&I cup is for Leinster.

Western Province tonked the Cheetahs, leading 57-0 at one time yesterday in the CC. I was at the game and they were absolutely shambolic which is fine, 28 of their best players were in Thomond.

pickarooney

The back 3 and OH couldn't have been first choice. To think that a couple of years ago their full back was Willie Le Roux.

bilston

In fairness if, as reported, the existing Pro 12 sides all get an extra £500,000 (or maybe it's €500,000) a year out of the deal to include the South Africans I'd imagine there will be a fair bit of patience to allow them to get up to speed.

thomond2006

Dragons vs Connacht
Ulster vs Scarlets
Edinburgh vs Benetton

---

Kings vs Leinster
Ospreys vs Munster
Cheetahs vs Zebre
Cardiff vs Glasgow

Some good fixtures with Ulster-Scarlets and Ospreys-Munster standing out. Cheetahs are in a must-win situation at home to Zebre. If they play as poorly again then it's a big problem for the league.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, the dash to get the competition set up didn't afford either SA team much of a chance to prepare properly. Kings lost a good few players between the announcement of their departure from SR to their joining the Pro14, and as thomand mentioned Cheetahs are caught between Currie Cup commitments and the Pro14 at the moment. We may need to write this season off for them in general and hold off making a judgement until next season.

I don't think we can give the Cheetahs that excuse tbh. They sent their absolute first string on tour. The currie cup was as much a distraction for them this weekend as the B&I cup is for Leinster.

Western Province tonked the Cheetahs, leading 57-0 at one time yesterday in the CC. I was at the game and they were absolutely shambolic which is fine, 28 of their best players were in Thomond.

They have their best team in the Pro14, but I believe their coaching team has been split. And they look like a side with coaching issues. Hell, they look like they don't even have a defence coach. So if they are operating with a shadow coaching team that would explain a lot.

thomond2006

Would it be too early to write off Cardiff if they lose to Glasgow? In their current form I reckon Cardiff won't get anything from this game.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Would it be too early to write off Cardiff if they lose to Glasgow? In their current form I reckon Cardiff won't get anything from this game.

They seem to be in a bad way alright

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They seem to be in a bad way alright

The following three games are Connacht (A), Munster (H) and Dragons (H). Their Pro14 season could be done by the Dragons game. It's hard to know how many wins/points teams will need to make the top 3 in each conference but a team that's 1 win from 6 is probably out of the running.

Former Former

I doubt Cardiff had too many aspirations for this season other than basic survival and holding on to their players. Anything above that is a bonus.

pickarooney

Are we going to get many upsets this year or is the interest mainly in the top of the table clashes and the play offs?

I think whoever travels to Bloemfontein later in the season could be in for a testing game.

thomond2006

pickarooney wrote: »

Are we going to get many upsets this year or is the interest mainly in the top of the table clashes and the play offs?

I think whoever travels to Bloemfontein later in the season could be in for a testing game.

Right now Edinburgh look like a team that could break into the top tier of teams, however they haven't really been tested yet. They go to Leinster and Scarlets in Weeks 4 and 5 which will determine whether are legitimate contenders or not.