What age do guys become invisable....?

_Dara_

Permabear wrote: »

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Uh huh. Mentioning personal circumstances so much is odd. Navel-gazing. Can't speak for anyone else but I'm sick to the back teeth of reading about your OH. I stopped reading your first post in reply to me pretty quickly, I was just thinking "Again? Really?".

begbysback

_Dara_ wrote: »

Uh huh. Mentioning personal circumstances so much is odd. Navel-gazing. Can't speak for anyone else but I'm sick to the back teeth of reading about your OH.

That's a bit harsh, it is within the context of the thread - would a 20 something male in a relationship with a 40 something female make you just as uncomfortable?

_Dara_

begbysback wrote: »

That's a bit harsh, it is within the context of the thread - would a 20 something male in a relationship with a 40 something female make you just as uncomfortable?

Firstly, where did I say I was uncomfortable? That wasn't the issue.

Meh, perhaps if he didn't rabbit on herself so much everywhere else, I wouldn't be so dismissive. Familiarity, contempt etc.

Anyway, moving on...

Permabear

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_Dara_

Permabear wrote: »

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Oh but I wanted to respond to say how I fed up I was of yet ANOTHER mention. The nature of a public discussion board also means that people notice patterns and can comment on them. Also note, I did stop reading the post.

Dragged this thread off topic people, sorry.

meeeeh

There is this magic thing called ignore list, maybe you should use that.

I don't know about other posts by Permabear because I don't pay that much attention but in this thread he is actually one of the posters with most of the relevant experience on the subject.

_Dara_

meeeeh wrote: »

There is this magic thing called ignore list, maybe you should use that.

Oh, I choose not to use that tool. Breaks up threads and stops them from flowing. I like have 100% of the discussion available to me.

His situation isn't all that relevant, it's not going to help the OP attract who he wants to attract.

meeeeh

_Dara_ wrote: »

His situation isn't all that relevant, it's not going to help the OP attract who he wants to attract.

Op was hoping for a few giggles reading outraged responses and since he didn't get that he disappeared. I don't think OP was actually looking for any advice. The subject of intergenerational dating is interesting though.

kylith

_Dara_ wrote: »

Oh, I choose not to use that tool. Breaks up threads and stops them from flowing. I like have 100% of the discussion available to me.

His situation isn't all that relevant, it's not going to help the OP attract who he wants to attract.

So you don't want to use ignore, but you don't think people should post things you don't want to read? Get over yourself; if you don't want to read his posts either put him on ignore or just don't read them, but your bitching about his posts is much more irritating than anything he's written.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

kylith wrote: »

So you don't want to use ignore, but you don't think people should post things you don't want to read? Get over yourself; if you don't want to read his posts either put him on ignore or just don't read them, but your bitching about his posts is much more irritating than anything he's written.

Eh, if someone speaks so much, in such detail about the same subject in a public forum then people are going to notice and it's reasonable to expect people might pass comment, Dara is very far from the first poster to make that observation. At least this thread is directly related to the issue in fairness.

I definitely glaze over PBs posts, incredible as the relationship is. Literally.

njs030

kylith wrote: »

So you don't want to use ignore, but you don't think people should post things you don't want to read? Get over yourself; if you don't want to read his posts either put him on ignore or just don't read them, but your bitching about his posts is much more irritating than anything he's written.

Even when you use the ignore function if someone else quotes the poster it's shown so it is hard to actually 'ignore' anyone.

Jenneke87

The OP has probably checked out at this point, but his post reminds of me of all that online red pill talk how women have an expiry date and are only good in their twenties because that's when they look their best, and they are somehow entitled to it "because they're a man that's why" and then get all pissed if she won't give him the time of day.
It's sad really....

_Dara_

kylith wrote: »

So you don't want to use ignore, but you don't think people should post things you don't want to read?

Er, nope, he can post whatever he wants. As others have said, the ignore function doesn't completely block a user's posts, you can still see posts by them if someone else quotes them, another reason for me not bothering to use the ignore facility.

Get over yourself; if you don't want to read his posts either put him on ignore or just don't read them, but your bitching about his posts is much more irritating than anything he's written.

Relax. The. Head.

It was a moment of exasperation from me. I, like others, am thoroughly fed up of PB shoehorning his relationship into discussions. His relationship is only superficially relevant. The OP wants to know he can't attract 20 somethings. PB wants to take about age gap issues. Again. As said by electrobitch, what I said has been noted by others too.

What a ridiculously wound up post from you. If I annoy YOU this much, why not put ME on ignore?

Baron Kurtz

_Dara_ wrote: »

Permabear, the amount you talk about relationship on boards is disconcerting, to be frank. It's like a case study to you or something, you spend a lot of time writing about it and describing it to people. If I'm honest, it comes across like you are ill-at-ease with the whole situation and are analysing it to death because of that.

He probably worked with her for a few years before the relationship kicked on as well! . Could be real Adam Johnson territory here.

Madam Oblong

Men who seek out much younger women do so because they're impressionable and easier to control. You might be delighted to marry a 20 year old, but should she be delighted to sign her life away to you at such a young age, before any meaningful life experience? What are you playing at like? Between yourself and the fella with 2 girlfriends, ye both love to talk *a lot* about it...

Pat Mustard

Madam Oblong wrote: »

Men who seek out much younger women do so because they're impressionable and easier to control.

Possibly, with certain controlling men. Most people are not like that.

Some men may be more attracted to women of certain age ranges.

A man who avoids marriage or committed relationships may find that as he ages, the number of available women of a similar age to him become scarcer, so he may find younger women to be a more likely demographic for the type of relationship sought by him.

leggo

For perspective, this is what the lived in reality of dating a girl in her early 20's can be like, having the last few girls I've dated fall into that category. Obviously not everyone is like this but there are some common themes I've noticed (I'm 30 for the record):

1) The ego boost of having a young, beautiful girl fancy you is very intoxicating, no two ways about it. But it wears off quite quickly and you judge them like you would anyone else then.

2) Sex-wise I've found them to be enthusiastic but inexperienced. So they're willing to try anything but not particularly good at anything yet. But, from being with other inexperienced people their own age, they have this impression that they're amazing. I've been in some weird, awkward situations as a result and they're not comfortable enough in their skin to laugh and have fun, it's such a serious activity. Genuinely, give me someone in their late 20's/30's who you just have a laugh with any day.

3) They're young and don't know themselves yet, which we all were guilty of at the same age. So dates will have a lot of time devoted to someone telling you "I'm this and this kinda person" and really, it's all ****e. When someone says that, what they really mean is "I want to be this kinda person" but it's no indication that they actually are. So you've no idea what you're actually signing up to and, if you're a bit older and need more concrete info before signing up to something because you won't have as many chances as you would when you're a kid, that's not ideal. As a result, someone describing themselves as 'mature' to me is a red flag now.

4) They can tend towards drama. Think about it, when you're young a good % of your impressions of what love is comes from TV/movies/music, i.e. dramatic interpretations of it. So there's a lot of "are we doing the right thing?"/"I don't know how I feel!" faffing about. Older people with a bit of relationship seasoning tend to appreciate a quieter, more settled life.

5) Things that you're proud of have zero currency. Own your own house? Start your own business and employ others? On course to retire by 45? Are you a good parent? Congratulations...you're boring! And you're also less attractive to her than some muppet who flunked out of school who's travelling Australia because he's unemployable here, but has a six-pack and has had sex with half her friend group!

Obviously these are generalisations are more describing people who are mature vs immature, but the reality is that younger people are much more likely to fall into the immature category (although young people can be mature and older people can never grow past 19). I think you've got an image in your head OP and it doesn't fall in line with reality tbh.

begbysback

Madam Oblong wrote: »

Men who seek out much younger women do so because they're impressionable and easier to control. You might be delighted to marry a 20 year old, but should she be delighted to sign her life away to you at such a young age, before any meaningful life experience? What are you playing at like? Between yourself and the fella with 2 girlfriends, ye both love to talk *a lot* about it...

I've never seen so much wrong with such a short post...

You believe men want to control women, so go for younger women?

So a woman is signing her life away getting married at 20? - or is this just in the cases where the man is that much older?

And you also believe such an age gap is identical to being unfaithful with 2 women?

Would you agree that you come across a little bitter here, or maybe envious?

meeeeh

I've been attracted to a bit older men in my early twenties, nothing intentional, I was probably just a bit old and jaded for my age. Then the boys of my age caught up and now I'm with someone who is my age. One of my high school mates was dating a guy in thirties, it was a bit weird but legal. Her father committed suicide when she was 10 or 12, her mother had some issues and I think she was just old for her age. As weird as dating 30 year old seemed, dating someone her age would feel even weirder. They were together for about 2 years but no matter how mature someone is for their age, people in teens and early twenties usually aren't in it for the long haul.

Madam Oblong

begbysback wrote: »

I've never seen so much wrong with such a short post...

You believe men want to control women, so go for younger women?

No, #notallmen :rolleyes: But yes, when a 40 year old man makes it his business to marry a 20 year old, it's about control IMO.

So a woman is signing her life away getting married at 20? - or is this just in the cases where the man is that much older?

I'm suspicious of the intention behind it. And yes, I think getting married at 20 is a terrible idea. Don't you?

And you also believe such an age gap is identical to being unfaithful with 2 women?

I'm talking about the bloke who lives with 2 women and they are all in on it. I'm not comparing the situation, I'm saying both men looove to shoehorn their "unusual" relationships into conversations at any possible opportunity. They're clearly very very proud of themselves for engineering these situations.

Would you agree that you come across a little bitter here, or maybe envious?

Ah yes, any woman who disagrees with something must be jealous, what else :rolleyes: I'll ask my tall handsome husband of the same age what he thinks.

meeeeh

Madam Oblong wrote: »

I'm suspicious of the intention behind it. And yes, I think getting married at 20 is a terrible idea. Don't you.

I think only the couple in question will know why they are getting married and only time will tell how terrible of an idea it was.

I certainly hope my daughter doesn't do it. But if she decides to get married at 20 I would prefer if people who know nothing about her wouldn't make amateur character assessments.

Permabear

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kylith

begbysback wrote: »

I've never seen so much wrong with such a short post...

You believe men want to control women, so go for younger women?

So a woman is signing her life away getting married at 20? - or is this just in the cases where the man is that much older?

And you also believe such an age gap is identical to being unfaithful with 2 women?

Would you agree that you come across a little bitter here, or maybe envious?

It's obviously not the case for all men who date younger women, but I did know a guy who would purposefully go for women aged 18-20 when he was in his 30s, and if they were foreign so much the better. The reason was that women his own age could spot him for the useless, feckless, backstabbing, tosspot that he was, whereas with younger women he would turn on the charm and they'd just be flattered that he was paying them attention.

Wibbs

Madam Oblong wrote: »

Men who seek out much younger women do so because they're impressionable and easier to control.

Can certainly be the case alright, but also a bit of a broad brushstroke to be using. Controlling men(or women for that matter. Indeed I've known more controlling women than men), can be of any age and will tend to seek out those easiest to control. Like bullies hunt out the weak kid in the group. That can be younger women, as younger less experienced women are more likely to take their guff. But I'm sure we both know a similar enough number of men and women who are past 30 who are a charm for control freaks. There's also not always a direct correlation between age and experience. Someone living independent with a harder than normal life is going to have more sense as a general rule than someone who has lived a very sheltered life.

You might be delighted to marry a 20 year old, but should she be delighted to sign her life away to you at such a young age, before any meaningful life experience?

Well given his apparent wealth he'll be the more financially vulnerable one, especially in the US of A. Irish law is quite equitable in this regard. I know of three women who are paying support to ex husbands, but if you have any sort of wealth as a bloke in the US I'd think such a man would be bonkers to tie the knot. My opinion anyway.

leggo wrote: »

For perspective, this is what the lived in reality of dating a girl in her early 20's can be like, having the last few girls I've dated fall into that category. Obviously not everyone is like this but there are some common themes I've noticed (I'm 30 for the record):

1) The ego boost of having a young, beautiful girl fancy you is very intoxicating, no two ways about it. But it wears off quite quickly and you judge them like you would anyone else then.

I'd agree there.

2) Sex-wise I've found them to be enthusiastic but inexperienced. So they're willing to try anything but not particularly good at anything yet. But, from being with other inexperienced people their own age, they have this impression that they're amazing. I've been in some weird, awkward situations as a result and they're not comfortable enough in their skin to laugh and have fun, it's such a serious activity. Genuinely, give me someone in their late 20's/30's who you just have a laugh with any day.

I dunno TBH. Yeah it can be a factor, but I've been with enough women of 30 and beyond that were not exactly exciting in that dept. It is nowhere near a given. Neither is the previous sexual experience for that matter.

3) They're young and don't know themselves yet, which we all were guilty of at the same age. So dates will have a lot of time devoted to someone telling you "I'm this and this kinda person" and really, it's all ****e. When someone says that, what they really mean is "I want to be this kinda person" but it's no indication that they actually are. So you've no idea what you're actually signing up to and, if you're a bit older and need more concrete info before signing up to something because you won't have as many chances as you would when you're a kid, that's not ideal. As a result, someone describing themselves as 'mature' to me is a red flag now.

I'd be in broad agreement there. Again it does depend on the individual. Like I say a woman who has been out in the world from early on is going to be more "mature" than a woman who went from school to an arts degree to daddy bought job and life. I know and have known some bloody clued in people who were 20 odd and some real duffers who were still duffers in their 50's. They just got better at hiding it and had developed a "mature" persona. Actually that's quite common in my experience. People measure "maturity" by ticking off the responsibility boxes and acting more staid, but their emotional and intellectual maturity barely coasted past the age of fifteen.

4) They can tend towards drama. Think about it, when you're young a good % of your impressions of what love is comes from TV/movies/music, i.e. dramatic interpretations of it. So there's a lot of "are we doing the right thing?"/"I don't know how I feel!" faffing about. Older people with a bit of relationship seasoning tend to appreciate a quieter, more settled life.

More agreement there alright.

5) Things that you're proud of have zero currency. Own your own house? Start your own business and employ others? On course to retire by 45? Are you a good parent? Congratulations...you're boring!

Or maybe and I've seen this a lot, they are more "boring". I have found men in particular tend to get into a rut with ease. Tend to work out the personality template that suits them and figure they'll run with that all the way to the grave. Adaptive thinking goes out the window. If anything my musing on older bloke, much younger woman is more along the lines of "what are you thinking love? You will be bored rigid far faster than with a bloke your own age". And said bloke her own age doesn't have to be some easy stereotype of Steroid Steve working as a bricky in Adelaide.

Actually for me that boredom factor in the woman would be about the biggest red flag in such a dynamic. The emotional trajectory of the average woman from 18 to 35 is a long and variable one. It is for men too of course, but I would say in relationships in particular not so much. Look around your friends and acquaintances and look at their relationship history. I'll bet that in the majority of cases it's the women calling time on relationships and that went on more in their twenties(in stats on divorce in the west around 2/3rds of divorces are sought by the wife).

Men tend to be much less hands on and dynamic in relationships and they're less likely to be the engines of them. Most relationship level shifts are driven by women. Men tend to be more passive, be grand like in such matters. Again they gravitate towards the rut and are less likely to either spot issues or work on them, unless such issues are brought to a head. The older guy, more likely to be rut bound anyway is not going to be much of a draw for the younger woman who is still in her dynamic stages.

I've even observed this difference in older women, younger men relationships, which if they go past a few years often work out. The younger man being less dynamic in relationships, with the older woman who's been there and done that so is more equal to him in that regard. I'd even go so far as to say that the older woman/younger man setup is likely to be more equal all around.

You even note that in your reference to the Studly O'Steroid with the six pack being more appealing. He will be for a time, like the bad boy etc and whatever other meme flingette a young woman may want to try, including the Older Man™. Try. Not buy. I was the Older Man a couple of times and they left me in the end. Now on top of me being a glorious knobend at the best of times of course, it was as much if not more that I was a phase.

Permabear

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Wibbs

Permabear wrote: »

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Certainly, but the the risk of divorce is high enough and higher still in unconventional setups. Who is more likely to divorce in the US? The 20 year old or the 40?

I'll be paying her child support anyway, because we have twins together who aren't even a year old yet. So even if we don't get married, I'll be writing her lots of checks for the next 17 years regardless.

True enough. Though I personally wouldn't go near an altar without a prenup and in a state/jurisdiction where they are more ironclad. BTW I'd give exactly the opinion if the relative positions were the same but the genders were reversed(though in US family court women get far more leeway, so would generally need less protection).

All things considered, I'm happy to get married because (a) I love her, (b) I don't want to break up our family, and (c) I genuinely see the risk of divorce as small. The flip side of her Christian beliefs is that she takes "till death do us part" very seriously.

As seriously as "giving in sin" and having a few kids "out of wedlock"? One reason I find it hard to trust committed religious people is because of how fluid their commitments tend to be and cognitive dissonance bedamned.

Permabear

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Pat Mustard

Madam Oblong wrote: »

No, #notallmen :rolleyes:.

A compelling argument there

Lux23

Permabear wrote: »

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You already have children and she is only 20?

Dial Hard

Lux23 wrote: »

You already have children and she is only 20?

Seriously, don't pull on that thread. We'll all be sorry.