Off Duty Garda shoots man

Captain Obvious

RustyNut wrote: »

Or that he wasn't in the pub for a few pints and then picked a fight.

All speculation, best wait for the details to come out.

Like was done in the opening post?

knucklehead6

Syphonax wrote: »

Same rules apply, even if he killed mother Teresa.

Mother Teresa was a terrorist? Well fuck me pink

Jawgap

Syphonax wrote: »

An on duty cop vs off duty, I accept certain rules are applicable to them both but there are subtle differnces. If i worked in Mcdonalds im on duty, if im ordering a Big Mac im not

It not as black and white as some are assuming it is, if fact when it comes to courts an off duty cop is EXACTLY just that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not required to swear an oath out to work in McD's?

A Guard swears to uphold the Constitution and discharge their duties in absolute terms..... they don't qualify by saying that their obligations only count during business hours :rolleyes:

Are Am Eye

Syphonax wrote: »

Yes I know this, im specifaclly talking about cops shooting while off duty you havent refuted me anywhere in your post just posted obivious waffle which I already said im aware off.

Armed cops arent the same as normal unarmed cops and im very concerned that an off duty one is wiflully shooting at people without any other cop in sight, no back up no nothing.

The Firearms Act, 1925, is the relevant statute that prohibits or restricts people from carrying a firearm. Our police force are exempted from this legal prohibition that applies to the rest of us. They only require the permission of the Force to carry a firearm.




(3) This section shall not apply to any of the following cases and such cases are accordingly excepted from this section, that is to say
(a) the possession or carriage of a firearm under and in accordance with a permit issued under this Act and for the time being in force;
(b) the possession, use, or carriage of a firearm or ammunition by a member of the Defence Forces or of a lawful police force in the performance of his duty as such member;

end of the road

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

If he killed a terrorist on his way to commit an act would the usual whingers still be giving out?

yes, the non-whiners would want to insure that the serious matter that is the discharging of a firearm is investigated to the fullest extent.

Jawgap

end of the road wrote: »

yes, the non-whiners would want to insure that the serious matter that is the use of a firearm is investigated to the fullest extent.

I'd be questioning his marksmanship - shoulder shot? It's supposed to the lowest most central part of the largest mass visible that's aimed for, not the shoulders

The person who was shot should thank him for not shooting him somewhere critical.

As the great man says.....

Gatling

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

If he killed a terrorist on his way to commit an act would the usual whingers still be giving out?

Unfortunately we live in society where whingers feel the need to be offended by everything

seamus

RasTa wrote: »

Seems a bit pointless if they are not allowed use them and we have a separate armed response unit.

This is on the basis of the incident in Sligo where they claimed the unit was 42km's away.

Could they not call on a few detectives to go down armed and control the situation?

This is not a stupid question.

There are two factors at play here;

1. The ARU/ERU/Etc are trained in specific tactics and situations. They train together, they practice scenarios together. They work as a well-oiled machine to control these situations. An ERU will cover 42 km in 15-25 minutes. A detective down the road will probably take ten minutes to get his sh1t together and get down there. And it might take you 5 minutes to find his phone number. So you're not gaining much.

2. The principle still has to be recognised that Gardai are people with private lives and an entitlement to some downtime and rest. If it was routine to summon any armed Garda "because he's closer", then that would get abused and they'd be summoned for all sorts of nonsense any time of the day or night. Any individual Garda has a right to expect when they're off shift they can sit and watch TV and relax and get ****faced, without getting called in because they're 10 minutes closer than a more qualified unit that's on-shift.
Plenty of Gardai will still say they get called in every now and again, but without a general respect for the principle of downtime, morale would be even worse than it already is.

TheDoc

jcd5971 wrote: »

I don't think anyone should ever be commended for shooting someone.

The guard was most likely justified completely in their actions, but it should be a full detailed uncomfortable investigation into the entire process hitting every action the guard took, until it is absolutely certain they had no alternative course of action.


This isn't an anti Gardai post at all far from it. But I believe none of us want to even look in the direction of USA style policing and therefore drawing and firing a weapon on a person should literally be to save a life that is about to be taken.

And I totally appreciate and accept your point of view and that ideally. And I don't want you to take me as condescending or being belittling when I say that is all well and good in a perfect world.

But I'll always commend anyone, police or not, who put their safety, bodies or life on the line in the protection of others or diverting a serious incident, whether there is firearms involved or not.

MarcusP12

Syphonax wrote: »

OK so shooting someone without any backup while not on the clock will leave the inevitable court case open to no ridicule, yeah right

I'm only making an assumption here but i'm going to make a wild guess that any time a fire arm is discharged and especially when someone is actually injured or killed, there will be some form of report or investigation on the incident. I, again, assume this is to determine whether such force was necessary under the circumstances. I would also assume that this would happen whether the garda in question was on duty or not.

So I have serious doubts that a court case would be inevitable. Of course I could find out if the above is accurate since my brother in law is a piece carrying detective sergeant......but i'd prefer to give the garda the benefit of the doubt and praise his brave intervention....

TheDoc

Syphonax wrote: »

Thats a load of bollox on your part there TBH.

You even state that “To be honest plenty of guards post here, someone will come along with actual facts about carry permits.” In other words you are admitting that what haven’t got a clue about what you’re posting yet are claiming otherwise to know it all. I haven’t claimed to know the ins and outs of what is permitted for off duty guards but you are, even though you're admitting that you dont.

Pure BS

I wont even bother with the rest of the tripe in your post as its mere waffle.

OK well yeah, I'm not a Guard so wouldn't want to be portraying something as first hand, but I know enough Guards, have socialised with enough armed Guards and have two detectives in my extended family that I'm going to have a little punt that I know how some things work.

You can carry on your police bashing, just don't expect the rest of us to sit here and let you have your opinion unchallenged.

If you don't like it go find yourself an echo chamber, I hear they are the rage these days

TheDoc

Syphonax wrote: »

Yes I know this, im specifaclly talking about cops shooting while off duty you havent refuted me anywhere in your post just posted obivious waffle which I already said im aware off.

Armed cops arent the same as normal unarmed cops and im very concerned that an off duty one is wiflully shooting at people without any other cop in sight, no back up no nothing.

Again, the story nor any detail thus far from what I see, indicates the police officer was the shooter. Any links that confirm? Maybe I missed something while on lunch.

And should the officer be firearms trained, permitted to carry, witnessed an impending serious situation that was threatening to the general public or nearby citizens, then he was totally within in his rights to intervene, as I stated, he would be liable and accountable should a serious incident occur and he did not act.

In terms of how he did or what he did, operationally, in terms of keeping visual contact on the incident while calling for local Guardaí to respond, or if he was the shooter and was transporting the firearm from home to wokr or vice vera and brandished it, yeah the Guardaí's internal audit and investigation can work out if he conducted the scenario as best he thought was possible or if there was poor judgement etc.

But to slaughter a police officer for intervening in a crime, or blustering about some administration or red tape when he/she thwarted/intercepted a serious incident, its bollox like that, that has moral low in the Guardaí and a consistent cycle of "not winning" against organised crime and the likes.

They need regulation and oversight, but they also need to be trusted with their training and position to intervene in crime and serious incident, and not have to worry about every tom dick and harry calling out about red tape.

Sorry but I think should this scenario transpire as I imagine it will, you're a dribbler if you find issues with a guardaí averting/intervening in a serious incident.

Wossack

Canis Lupus wrote: »

STOP IN THE NAME OF THE LAW!

*beep beep....beep beep*

Oh wait, my shift just ended. I'm not allowed to use this gun anymore. As you were lads.

actually further to this, it would appear to some in the thread, that once that beeper went off, the gard should have dropped the gun on the floor

martingriff

RasTa wrote: »

martingriff wrote: »

Yes you did you first comment was he should be fired. Not the question of I did not think Garda could be armed off duty? Hope he was not hurt or well done for going after 3 criminal like most people would say. You first comment was attack of fire the pig

Thanks for clarifying how I think. I wouldn't be calling them pigs either but thankfully school is starting soon.

So how were people ment to take your comment it sounded clearly like disdain for the police and bashing them and that is why I said pig. Enjoy school by the way when it starts

Syphonax

MarcusP12 wrote: »

I'm only making an assumption here but i'm going to make a wild guess that any time a fire arm is discharged and especially when someone is actually injured or killed, there will be some form of report or investigation on the incident. I, again, assume this is to determine whether such force was necessary under the circumstances. I would also assume that this would happen whether the garda in question was on duty or not.

So I have serious doubts that a court case would be inevitable. Of course I could find out if the above is accurate since my brother in law is a piece carrying detective sergeant......but i'd prefer to give the garda the benefit of the doubt and praise his brave intervention....

There is very little information about this incident but yes someone been shot warrants an investigation and if the gard is in the wrong it would be another massive embarrassment for the force, I suspect this is why there is so little information regarding the incident as naturally the garda like anyone else looks after their own.

ThisRegard

Syphonax wrote: »

There is very little information about this incident but yes someone been shot warrants an investigation and if the gard is in the wrong it would be another massive embarrassment for the force, I suspect this is why there is so little information regarding the incident as naturally the garda like anyone else looks after their own.

Bull****. There's no such information release by the Gardai about such ongoing investigations regardless of who is being investigated.

Why have an investigation if they preempt all the facts?

Syphonax

TheDoc wrote: »

OK well yeah, I'm not a Guard so wouldn't want to be portraying something as first hand, but I know enough Guards, have socialised with enough armed Guards and have two detectives in my extended family that I'm going to have a little punt that I know how some things work.

You can carry on your police bashing, just don't expect the rest of us to sit here and let you have your opinion unchallenged.

If you don't like it go find yourself an echo chamber, I hear they are the rage these days

WTF are you on about Police bashing?? where am I bashing them, I think you need to go to specsavers. I have every respect for the gards who tackle crime and keep citizens safe, every respect. you’re sound like a real plonker though from the way you post, “ooooohhh I drink with gards, therefore I know and I am the fookin law” that’s what you sound like.

Captain Obvious

Syphonax wrote: »

There is very little information about this incident but yes someone been shot warrants an investigation and if the gard is in the wrong it would be another massive embarrassment for the force, I suspect this is why there is so little information regarding the incident as naturally the garda like anyone else looks after their own.

GSOC are investigating it.

ThisRegard

Syphonax wrote: »

WTF are you on about Police bashing?? where am I bashing them, I think you need to go to specsavers. I have every respect for the gards who tackle crime and keep citizens safe, every respect. you’re sound like a real plonker though from the way you post, “ooooohhh I drink with gards, therefore I know and I am the fookin law” that’s what you sound like.

Your very first post in this thread, when you called for him to be fired. And then probably every other post after that.

Syphonax

TheDoc wrote: »

Again, the story nor any detail thus far from what I see, indicates the police officer was the shooter. Any links that confirm? Maybe I missed something while on lunch.

And should the officer be firearms trained, permitted to carry, witnessed an impending serious situation that was threatening to the general public or nearby citizens, then he was totally within in his rights to intervene, as I stated, he would be liable and accountable should a serious incident occur and he did not act.

In terms of how he did or what he did, operationally, in terms of keeping visual contact on the incident while calling for local Guardaí to respond, or if he was the shooter and was transporting the firearm from home to wokr or vice vera and brandished it, yeah the Guardaí's internal audit and investigation can work out if he conducted the scenario as best he thought was possible or if there was poor judgement etc.

But to slaughter a police officer for intervening in a crime, or blustering about some administration or red tape when he/she thwarted/intercepted a serious incident, its bollox like that, that has moral low in the Guardaí and a consistent cycle of "not winning" against organised crime and the likes.

They need regulation and oversight, but they also need to be trusted with their training and position to intervene in crime and serious incident, and not have to worry about every tom dick and harry calling out about red tape.

Sorry but I think should this scenario transpire as I imagine it will, you're a dribbler if you find issues with a guardaí averting/intervening in a serious incident.

There is very little info on this incident so its hard to say what has occurred and im hardly slaughtering him as you so eloquently put it. personally, if it appears as serious an incident as it maybe is, then he is equally both daft and brave at the same time for intervening.

Chuchote

Nobody knows what happened yet. Strong opinions on either side are based on total lack of information.

Syphonax

ThisRegard wrote: »

Your very first post in this thread, when you called for him to be fired. And then probably every other post after that.

Off duty gards are required to report such incidents in and not go into situations like this as lone gun slingers. This isnt mere shoplifting, by firing off many shots in the dark at night time god knows who he was shooting at.

harr

Syphonax wrote: »

Off duty gards are required to report such incidents in and not go into situations like this as lone gun slingers. This isnt mere shoplifting, by firing off many shots in the dark at night time god knows who he was shooting at.

No more feeding the troll, looking for a reaction :rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

Syphonax wrote: »

There is very little info on this incident so its hard to say what has occurred and im hardly slaughtering him as you so eloquently put it. personally, if it appears as serious an incident as it maybe is, then he is equally both daft and brave at the same time for intervening.

There is very little info on the incident yet in your OP you were adamant they should be removed from the force. If insisting that a garda is removed from the force based on no info isn't slaughtering i dont know what it.

begbysback

Chuchote wrote: »

Nobody knows what happened yet. Strong opinions on either side are based on total lack of information.

Welcome to boards

Chuchote

begbysback wrote: »

Welcome to boards

Kimbot

harr wrote: »

No more feeding the troll, looking for a reaction :rolleyes:

MOD No more backseat modding or calling users trolls. If you have an issue with a post then report it.

Barry Badrinath

Syphonax wrote: »

Off duty gards are required to report such incidents in and not go into situations like this as lone gun slingers. This isnt mere shoplifting, by firing off many shots in the dark at night time god knows who he was shooting at.

I'm sure he knew who he was shooting at, if indeed it was intentional....a shoulder shot is a dodgy enough point to be choosing to target someone.

We dont know the full story yet.

However, what I do know is, any firearm carrier is without any shadow of a doubt, cognicent of the sh1t storm that comes at you after squeezing a trigger in the line of duty.

It's not something taken lightly, on a whim or otherwise. It is a tool to be used as a last resort.

If you had any experience of firearm training or responsibility you would know that but I suspect you dont.

It's not the wild west and firearms holders dont go looking for trouble.

TheDoc

Syphonax wrote: »

WTF are you on about Police bashing?? where am I bashing them, I think you need to go to specsavers. I have every respect for the gards who tackle crime and keep citizens safe, every respect. you’re sound like a real plonker though from the way you post, “ooooohhh I drink with gards, therefore I know and I am the fookin law” that’s what you sound like.

Jawgap

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm sure he knew who he was shooting at, if indeed it was intentional....a shoulder shot is a dodgy enough point to be choosing to target someone.

We dont know the full story yet.

However, what I do know is, any firearm carrier is without any shadow of a doubt, cognicent of the sh1t storm that comes at you after squeezing a trigger in the line of duty.

It's not something taken lightly, on a whim or otherwise. It is a tool to be used as a last resort.

If you had any experience of firearm training or responsibility you would know that but I suspect you dont.

It's not the wild west and firearms holders dont go looking for trouble.

The fact that it sounds like a couple of warnings were issued and the guy got close enough to grapple and physically struggle with the Guard, kind of suggests the Guard waited until the last possible second to discharge the weapon......not exactly 'gun slinging'

This is complete speculation on my part but maybe he felt it was his last possible option - that unless he did fire there was every chance the gun would be wrestled away from him and he'd be on the wrong end of it.