Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

john boye

dublinman1990 wrote: »

That's great. Was it out on a bus route?

Yes, the 18

Stephen15

dublinman1990 wrote: »

That's great. Was it out on a bus route?

I've seen pictures of GAI buses with ads online their all for the Leap card kids go free scheme a bit like the way there's NTA/TFI ads on the interior interior. Nothing commercial yet just the NTAs own ads as no contracts for advertising have been sigmed yet.

dowlingm

Dravokivich wrote: »

That's the operators policy. If the leap card cant be read, they should be paying a cash fare. Leap already state the leap card must be validated to be considered in use for the journey.

If failing to provide either redundant LEAP readers or have them operating to acceptable stability means passengers must pay cash or not travel, where is the inconvenience to those responsible? If you have a LEAP card and the reader is down, you should be allowed to travel without further payment, end of.

Dravokivich

dowlingm wrote: »

If failing to provide either redundant LEAP readers or have them operating to acceptable stability means passengers must pay cash or not travel, where is the inconvenience to those responsible? If you have a LEAP card and the reader is down, you should be allowed to travel without further payment, end of.

You haven't paid for a ticket, that you are unable to redeem.

Stephen15

Dravokivich wrote: »

You haven't paid for a ticket, that you are unable to redeem.

Sorry but exactly do you mean by redeem? What exactly is there to be redeemed by paying a fare?

tabbey

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The companion pass is a joke and needs reform badly, its meant to be for people who medically cannot travel alone but there are only a minority that use it that way.

I agree with most of your post, but would mention that some people, a little confused, are quite capable of travelling into town alone, but might need a companion if going on their holidays, or to a medical appointment outside their usual routine.

L1011

They're unable to offer Leap fares for cash customers let alone capping. Suspect there's absolutely no ability for them to demand cash payment when Leap is down

tabbey

Stephen15 wrote: »

I think GAI do have revenue inspectors I've heard reports there were some on the 75 thought I saw someone on a GAI bus which I was not travelling on but passed me with one of those handheld devices that ticket inspectors to scan Leap cards. Oddly enough the report I heard was that only one got on but I thought it was a health and safety requirement that RPOs must travel in groups.

Yes I did have my leap card inspected on a 75 many months ago by a solo checker. He was not wearing a uniform, but mufti covered by a hi-vis jacket. I wondered at the time whether he was an executive of GAI rather than a regular ticket checker.

Stephen15

tabbey wrote: »

Yes I did have my leap card inspected on a 75 many months ago by a solo checker. He was not wearing a uniform, but mufti covered by a hi-vis jacket. I wondered at the time whether he was an executive of GAI rather than a regular ticket checker.

Sounds strange did he have any ID badge another thing which I think RPOs are supposed to display or show (if plain clothes)

tabbey

Stephen15 wrote: »

Sounds strange did he have any ID badge another thing which I think RPOs are supposed to display or show (if plain clothes)

I cannot recall all the details, but he wore some sort of hi-vis jacket, I think it was a GAI one.

He was courteous and efficient, quickly checking but seemed to notice anything out of the ordinary, suggesting an experienced operator, and wasted no time. He had an English accent, which made me think he might have been more than a recently recruited employee, perhaps on secondment from England or helping to set up the Irish division.

KD345

So many Go-Ahead services cancelled today on routes 33A, 75, 239, 270. Gaps of 90 minutes on the 75 and 2 hour gaps on the 239 and 270.

Whatever the problem is it needs to be sorted. From reading tweets its clear these cancelled buses are growing by the day.

Stephen15

KD345 wrote: »

So many Go-Ahead services cancelled today on routes 33A, 75, 239, 270. Gaps of 90 minutes on the 75 and 2 hour gaps on the 239 and 270.

Whatever the problem is it needs to be sorted. From reading tweets its clear these cancelled buses are growing by the day.

Probably even worse now at this time of year with so many drivers on annual leave it would be the same with DB as i believe there's been a lot of issues with DB services aswell lately

Yer Da sells Avon

tabbey wrote: »

I cannot recall all the details, but he wore some sort of hi-vis jacket, I think it was a GAI one.

A green hi-viz. He can regularly be seen checking tickets on the 45a and 75. He occasionally drives too. He's been around for at least six months.

KD345 wrote:

So many Go-Ahead services cancelled today on routes 33A, 75, 239, 270. Gaps of 90 minutes on the 75 and 2 hour gaps on the 239 and 270.

A combination of driver holidays and an inordinate number of drivers ringing in sick at the last minute. Also, it can be hard to get people to do overtime when the weather is nice.

It's extremely rare that you'd get a gap like that on the 75. God help the driver of the next one. You'd think passengers would just be relieved when a bus arrives after two no-shows, but nope.

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

A green hi-viz. He can regularly be seen checking tickets on the 45a and 75. He occasionally drives too. He's been around for at least six months.

I've seen that guy too around DL Dart station guessed he was an inspector/supervisor whatever GAI call the DB equivalent of an inspector. Used to be a DB inspector there who wore a peaked CIE hat.

Contrails

KD345 wrote: »

So many Go-Ahead services cancelled today on routes 33A, 75, 239, 270. Gaps of 90 minutes on the 75 and 2 hour gaps on the 239 and 270.

Whatever the problem is it needs to be sorted. From reading tweets its clear these cancelled buses are growing by the day.

My heart goes out to the support staff and drivers trying to make it work. I started following the Go Ahead Twitter feed recently and I cannot believe the number of "operational issues". Yesterday and and today in particular. Was it always like this?

punisher5112

Contrails wrote: »

My heart goes out to the support staff and drivers trying to make it work. I started following the Go Ahead Twitter feed recently and I cannot believe the number of "operational issues". Yesterday and and today in particular. Was it always like this?

Worse then ever now. There is a drought of drivers across all companies....

Weather and summer isn't helping either.

AlekSmart

Contrails wrote: »

My heart goes out to the support staff and drivers trying to make it work. I started following the Go Ahead Twitter feed recently and I cannot believe the number of "operational issues". Yesterday and and today in particular. Was it always like this?

Your heart can beat a little easier now,since the NTA have finally deigned,despite the reservations of some observers, to enable the GAI Performance Reports in the same manner as all their other PSO contracts.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/go-ahead-ireland/

As expected,there was a lead-in period,during which some of the metrics were not in force,but this grace period has now expired.

Quarterly Service Quality Performance Report – in compliance with the ODMA Contract Service Quality Performance Deductions shall not apply in respect of any services during the first 3Qs of 2019.

So essentially,from October 2019,GAI will be directly comparable with the other PSO operators in relation to their Performance figures.

So,for the moment the NTA's financiers,at least have some idea as to how the thing will work....;)

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/GAI_-_Performance_Report_-_Punctuality_Q1_july.pdf

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Copy_of_GAI_Performance_Report_-_Reliability_Q1_-july.pdf

Of equal (if not greater) importance,is the publication of the NTA's now official,By-Laws for it's services,which will,no doubt,be eagerly perused by it's many customers

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/National_Transport_Authority_Public_Passenger_Transport_Services_Bye-Laws_2019.pdf

It's going to be a lonnng night ahead....:D

KD345

Contrails wrote: »

My heart goes out to the support staff and drivers trying to make it work. I started following the Go Ahead Twitter feed recently and I cannot believe the number of "operational issues". Yesterday and and today in particular. Was it always like this?

It seems to be particularly bad this last week.

Some of the cancelled Go-Ahead services mentioned on Twitter today:

Route 17 from Rialto: 15:40
Route 17A from Howth Junction: 07:40
Route 18 from Palmerstown: 07:36
Route 18 from Sandymount: 17:27, 17:47
Route 45A from Kilmacanogue: 10:50
Route 76A from Blanchardstown: 18:00
Route 184 from Newcastle: 06:47
Route 75A from Dun Laoghaire: 07:35
Route 104 From DCU: 10:10, 11:10, 17:10, 18:10
Route 104 from Clontarf: 11:00
Route 102 From Dublin Airport: 12:30, 13:00
Route 239 From Blanchardstown: 10:20, 14:20, 16:20
Route 220 From “BCS”?: 13:11
Route 236 From Damastown: 17:15
Route 238 from Tyrrelstown: 14:32, 22:03, 23:03
Route 238 from Lady’s Well: 21:33, 22:33
Route 239 From Liffey Valley: 11:55, 12:55, 14:50, 17:45

They’re just the ones mentioned online. There were also buses delayed and running short.

They seem to be announcing the cancelled services ahead of their times which is helpful to inform passengers.

Stephen15

I wonder what that compares to cancelled DB services atm as from what I gather there's been issues with both operators lately.

LuckyLloyd

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wonder what that compares to cancelled DB services atm as from what I gather there's been issues with both operators lately.

I haven’t been noticing DB issues myself. The above issues will be blatantly obvious to a huge swathe of Go Ahead’s customer base.

Anyway, as noted above, they’ve got a couple of months to get their house in order before data highlighting their poor performance starts to be published in a comparable fashion. They got quite the extended period of grace.

Here we go

KD345 wrote: »

It seems to be particularly bad this last week.

Some of the cancelled Go-Ahead services mentioned on Twitter today:

Route 17 from Rialto: 15:40
Route 17A from Howth Junction: 07:40
Route 18 from Palmerstown: 07:36
Route 18 from Sandymount: 17:27, 17:47
Route 45A from Kilmacanogue: 10:50
Route 76A from Blanchardstown: 18:00
Route 184 from Newcastle: 06:47
Route 75A from Dun Laoghaire: 07:35
Route 104 From DCU: 10:10, 11:10, 17:10, 18:10
Route 104 from Clontarf: 11:00
Route 102 From Dublin Airport: 12:30, 13:00
Route 239 From Blanchardstown: 10:20, 14:20, 16:20
Route 220 From “BCS”?: 13:11
Route 236 From Damastown: 17:15
Route 238 from Tyrrelstown: 14:32, 22:03, 23:03
Route 238 from Lady’s Well: 21:33, 22:33
Route 239 From Liffey Valley: 11:55, 12:55, 14:50, 17:45

They’re just the ones mentioned online. There were also buses delayed and running short.

They seem to be announcing the cancelled services ahead of their times which is helpful to inform passengers.

Just to highlight if a driver wasn't available for one run like 6:47 from Newcastle that would effect the whole duty card so up to 4/6 other runs would also be effected in which that driver would of had to do

Stephen15

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I haven’t been noticing DB issues myself. The above issues will be blatantly obvious to a huge swathe of Go Ahead’s customer base.

I can only go off what I've read off Twitter and DB have even admitted they're having staff issues at the moment I have also stuff like there was a 35+ minute gap in service on the Swords Road there recently for example. I use both DB and GAI fairly regularly and I haven't noticed too many issues either despite all the complaints on Twitter.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wonder what that compares to cancelled DB services atm as from what I gather there's been issues with both operators lately.

Unfortunately I can never see Dublin Bus being anywhere near that transparent about the services that they have cancelled as Go-Ahead have been. The recent update to the Real Time Ireland app has showed that they too have had issues with running a number of services, as a poster stated on that thread and from what I have seen as well.

The difference is that Dublin Bus avoid using the word cancel or cancelled at all costs probably because admitting that they cancelled a bus is not good PR for them and their brand that they are so protective of. Even if you tweet them and ask them if a bus was cancelled they ask you what stop you are at and tell you when the next bus is to avoid admitting they cancelled services. There are numerous examples of this on their twitter.

All publicly funded operators should be made to tweet when they do not operate services that they are contractually obligied to do so. The PSO network should be about serving the interests of the public, not protecting ones interests or their brand by being non transparent.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I haven’t been noticing DB issues myself. The above issues will be blatantly obvious to a huge swathe of Go Ahead’s customer base.

They're very much there I'm afraid, I've noticed a few missing services, as have my colleagues and another poster has also commented about many services being cancelled on Sunday in town which suggests both operators are probablly having issues. Traditionally there has often been this problem over the summer.

KD345

There are also a lot of cancelled services with Dublin Bus at the moment. It’s probably not as noticeable because their routes are more frequent and generally run close to other services. When multiple services are cancelled on the 17, 104 or 239 there are no alternatives other than travelling into the city centre and back out. Having a three hour gap on the 104 is not acceptable.

The only positive with Go-Ahead is that they’re now alerting passengers in advance on Twitter which gives people time to plan ahead. If there is a problem with staffing, and it would seem there is, then the timetables should be revised for 6 months to ensure the level of service advertised can be met and then revise.

People will only accept their bus being cancelled so many times before deciding it’s an unreliable way to travel and find an alternative.

Stephen15

KD345 wrote: »

There are also a lot of cancelled services with Dublin Bus at the moment. It’s probably not as noticeable because their routes are more frequent and generally run close to other services. When multiple services are cancelled on the 17, 104 or 239 there are no alternatives other than travelling into the city centre and back out. Having a three hour gap on the 104 is not acceptable.

The only positive with Go-Ahead is that they’re now alerting passengers in advance on Twitter which gives people time to plan ahead. If there is a problem with staffing, and it would seem there is, then the timetables should be revised for 6 months to ensure the level of service advertised can be met and then revise.

People will only accept their bus being cancelled so many times before deciding it’s an unreliable way to travel and find an alternative.

I agree whole heartily that cancelled services are completely acceptable. I've also read reports of lower frequency DB routes such as the 33 being cancelled in the last few days. Also there were plenty of cancelled services on current GAI routes when they were with DB.

You also have to remember the majority of the demand comes from the higher frequency cross city routes where long gaps in service are equally unacceptable.

dfx-

KD345 wrote: »

There are also a lot of cancelled services with Dublin Bus at the moment. It’s probably not as noticeable because their routes are more frequent and generally run close to other services. When multiple services are cancelled on the 17, 104 or 239 there are no alternatives other than travelling into the city centre and back out. Having a three hour gap on the 104 is not acceptable.

The only positive with Go-Ahead is that they’re now alerting passengers in advance on Twitter which gives people time to plan ahead. If there is a problem with staffing, and it would seem there is, then the timetables should be revised for 6 months to ensure the level of service advertised can be met and then revise.

People will only accept their bus being cancelled so many times before deciding it’s an unreliable way to travel and find an alternative.

Having difficulties with the 236, 104 and 239 within a limited package of routes does not bode well for them getting anything major like the 9, 13,14, 15, 16s.

Contrails

https://www.98fm.com/news/go-ahead-fined-dublin-bus-883368

Some bad press...

Although definitely a good time to apply of you want a career change. Employee's market and all that.

The deputy in the article has suggested handing back routes to Dublin Bus. I wonder how likely that would be to ever happen. Would GAI ever be allowed to fail as such..?

.G.

They are going to have to get with the programme, they have to match DB wages and better their conditions or they will never be able to properly compete with them until such point as DB have no need for further staff.

Stephen15

dfx- wrote: »

Having difficulties with the 236, 104 and 239 within a limited package of routes does not bode well for them getting anything major like the 9, 13,14, 15, 16s.

Well that would depend on whether or not they put in the most competitively advantageous tender if and when the routes you mention go out to open tender

devnull

dfx- wrote: »

Having difficulties with the 236, 104 and 239 within a limited package of routes does not bode well for them getting anything major like the 9, 13,14, 15, 16s.

Dublin Bus have also been struggling with services in the summer for several years now, so it's nothing really new in the Dublin City bus experience, it's been a problem every single summer. The only reason that the ones on Go-Ahead stick out more is the fact they are open about it when Dublin Bus are not and the fact that as the services are lower frequency than DB when one is missing it's more obvious.

Contrails wrote: »

https://www.98fm.com/news/go-ahead-fined-dublin-bus-883368

The deputy in the article has suggested handing back routes to Dublin Bus. I wonder how likely that would be to ever happen.

It's unlikely to happen unless they are underperforming for some time and in a way that is out of kilter with other operators. However it would mean that they are never going to get the optional extended period if they do not improve tings since that is dependent on performance.

As stated previously every summer Dublin Bus have had a fair number of service not operating for the last few years, and also several posters have posted the same kind of experience this year on this and other threads, so the idea that if the routes never transferred over everything would be hunky dory, simply does not stand up to scrutiny.

The politician commenting on the matter is just using it as an opportunity to push his ideology across at the end of the day. Personally it would nice to see a politician come out and the number services not operating is unacceptable, regardless of who operates it, but that would involve someone actually looking after public transport as a whole rather than trying to score points towards an ideological argument and I've lived too long here to expect such things!

At the end of the day for too long people in Dublin have been short changed by dozens of services per day not operating in the summer period. there really has to be a change to stop this happening year after year. Maybe it needs more summer timetables or more strict annual leave management, incentivised by increased fines by the NTA, but the current situation that has been going on with Dublin City bus services for the last numbers of years cannot be allowed to continue and the NTA needs to act.