Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

Sweetemotion

pitifulgod wrote: »

The local government took a vote to remove the statue, your rant implies the destruction of history. In fact, it's still remembered in a museum. You consider the moving of a statue into a museum to be the work of lunatics? Locals for the most part had no objection to moving it with the exception of the white supremacist who arranged the rally.....

They are lunatics as for white supremacists is that really a big movement in America? I think not but it's a good boogeyman.

Brian?

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Do you think after these lunatics have moved all the statues they think might offend people are going to stop at that?

You think the Charlottesville city council are lunatics?

Sweetemotion

Brian? wrote: »

You think the Charlottesville city council are lunatics?

I think Charlottesville city council have been pressured by these lunatics.

Here is a video of what one Charlottesville police officer thinks of these lunatics and I think he is spot on.

Sweetemotion

Sorry the link isn't from CNN but the video speaks for its self.

pitifulgod

Sweetemotion wrote: »

They are lunatics as for white supremacists is that really a big movement in America? I think not but it's a good boogeyman.

The rally over the statue was by white supremacists, it's very much so relevant. Nobody in the area had issues with moving the statue. The lunatics were the white supremacists...

marcus001

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I think Charlottesville city council have been pressured by these lunatics.

Here is a video of what one Charlottesville police officer thinks of these lunatics and I think he is spot on.

This is a very interesting video about the mindset of the ideologically possessed. You can clearly see it on display in that video you posted.

https://youtu.be/JBCtX9lmsGQ

Its interesting at the end of the video where that woman says "can't walk put of the park by yourself, huh?" to a man twice her size with a rifle on his shoulder.

It actually explains why a lot of them join these type of mobs. It gives them a feeling of power they wouldn't ordinarily have. When in life would a woman get to bully and intimidate a man like that? Never, unless you join some group which puts you in a position to hector and harass people from behind a police cordon.

Sweetemotion

pitifulgod wrote: »

The rally over the statue was by white supremacists, it's very much so relevant. Nobody in the area had issues with moving the statue. The lunatics were the white supremacists...

How do you know that nobody in the area had no issues with the removal?

The city council voted after being pressured not the people. In anyway what if a minority of people wanted to keep the statue. Shouldn't they be allowed too? after the left wants the same right for minorities.

pitifulgod

Sweetemotion wrote: »

How do you know that nobody in the area had no issues with the removal?

The city council voted after being pressured not the people. In anyway what if a minority of people wanted to keep the statue. Shouldn't they be allowed too? after the left wants the same right for minorities.

The local area is known to be rather liberal in general, the one local attendant at the rally was a white supremacist. It seems more like you are the one who is outraged for the sake of it. Do you also object to the founders of the state removing a Queen Victoria statue from outside of Leinster House? Were they also lunatic? You seem pretty unconcerned by the actual nature of the rally...

InTheTrees

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Sorry the link isn't from CNN but the video speaks for its self.

No, it isnt is it?

The video is made by VFN "Very Fake News".

And they arent very good actors.

Sweetemotion

pitifulgod wrote: »

The local area is known to be rather liberal in general, the one local attendant at the rally was a white supremacist. It seems more like you are the one who is outraged for the sake of it. Do you also object to the founders of the state removing a Queen Victoria statue from outside of Leinster House? Were they also lunatic? You seem pretty unconcerned by the actual nature of the rally...

The problem here is. You and I both know this going to stop at statues it's going to be something else that offends and something else after that and so. There will be no end because these people ooze being offended it's all they live for and all they have.

Sweetemotion

InTheTrees wrote: »

No, it isnt is it?

The video is made by VFN "Very Fake News".

And they arent very good actors.

Prove that. I knew the source would be criticised because you have nothing else.

Danzy

Year Zero mentality.

20Cent

InTheTrees wrote: »

No, it isnt is it?

The video is made by VFN "Very Fake News".

And they arent very good actors.

The amount of hatred generated by alt right factions trolling each other is remarkable. The are a load a fake antifa facebook and twitter accounts ****posting and other right wingers are getting all rilled up about it.

People are being injured because they believe troll accounts.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/01/patriot-shoots-himself-in-leg-at-gettysburg.html

InTheTrees

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Prove that. I knew the source would be criticised because you have nothing else.

Prove it? The graphic is right there on the screen.

"Very Fake News"

And really just watch them, they're clearly faking it.

Sweetemotion

InTheTrees wrote: »

Prove it? The graphic is right there on the screen.

"Very Fake News"

And really just watch them, they're clearly faking it.

Ah c'mon now. You're smarter than that. Don't play stupid.

The Legend Of Kira

pitifulgod wrote: »

It simply is not the same... One involves objections to a state's domestic foreign policy. You could totally argue it as hate if anti semetic tropes etc were used etc. Put it into a court room as hate speech and it simply would not be recognised as hate speech.

The logical progression of your argument would be to not recognise any form of hate crimes btw.

""The logical progression of your argument would be to not recognise any form of hate crimes btw. ""

I should of replied to this part earlier on,, I didn,t use the term/phrase " hate crime " in my posts, I was referring to the concept of " hate speech " as another form of thoughtcrime, but since you brought up the term " hatecrime " I shall reply & elaborate.

" Hatecrime " I do accept exists & should be recognized as a punishable offence under the law some cases I will refer to.

"" ALAMEDA — A synagogue in Alameda was vandalized this week in what some worry could be a reaction to the violence in Charlottesville and its aftermath. ""

"" Carl Johnson, 25, had just moved to Rochdale, Greater Manchester, and went into local pub to meet new people before he was attacked on the street on his way home ""

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/08/18/synagogue-vandalized-in-alameda-in-wake-of-charlottesville/

[font=PT Serif, Times, sans-serif]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/gay-man-carl-johnson-homophobic-attack-pub-rochdale-manchester-hate-crime-lgbt-a7898136.html[/font]

[font=PT Serif, Times, sans-serif]Cases such as these where places of worship are attacked + when someone is physically attacked because of their sexual orientation , should be classed as + recognized as hatecrimes that carries legal punishment .[/font]

Whereas with the concept of hate speech,  expression of opinions no matter how offensive or distasteful someone finds it, is just that an expression of an opinion, speech is merely the expression of a thought it is not an action, if we are to say people should be legally punished under the law for expression of opinions someone finds offensive under the guise of " hate speech " we are punishing someone of the expression of his/her thoughts, which is nothing other then thoughcrime by another name.
12
nagogue on edge after vandalism in Alameda

marcus001

InTheTrees wrote: »

Prove it? The graphic is right there on the screen.

"Very Fake News"

And really just watch them, they're clearly faking it.

I think "Very Fake News" is an ironic play on Trump's insult at CNN. Its not a site like the Onion.

And they're not "clearly faking it". What kind of conspiracist are you. Do you think the cop is in on it too?

Here's the first video I found in that channel.
https://youtu.be/YxfKRGfiAYI

How does a channel with only 12k subscribers afford so many actors?

20Cent

InTheTrees wrote: »

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Sorry the link isn't from CNN but the video speaks for its self.

No, it isnt is it?

The video is made by VFN "Very Fake News".

And they arent very good actors.

He was right.
"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Trump said at a campaign rally.

Fortunatly the believers are dwindling rapidly.

marcus001

20Cent wrote: »

He was right.
"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Trump said at a campaign rally.

Fortunatly the believers are dwindling rapidly.

What does Trump have to do with this?

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Can we move on from this video please?

Akrasia

marcus001 wrote: »

This is a very interesting video about the mindset of the ideologically possessed. You can clearly see it on display in that video you posted.

https://youtu.be/JBCtX9lmsGQ

Its interesting at the end of the video where that woman says "can't walk put of the park by yourself, huh?" to a man twice her size with a rifle on his shoulder.

It actually explains why a lot of them join these type of mobs. It gives them a feeling of power they wouldn't ordinarily have. When in life would a woman get to bully and intimidate a man like that? Never, unless you join some group which puts you in a position to hector and harass people from behind a police cordon.

I'll never understand why the police allow people to come to these protests carrying weapons. I know there are open carry laws, but surely the police have some discretion to decide when carrying gun constitutes threatening behaviour or presents a threat to public safety.

Freedom of speech should not include the right to go to an incendiary protest carrying an assault rifle. You can complain about the people shouting 'go home' to the guy standing still and saluting and say that they're bullying him, and intimidating him, but he was the guy who chose to bring a massive gun with him. It's supposed to be a show of force. It doesn't quite work out when you're the only one who actually turned up though.

Anyone who goes to a 'peaceful protest' with a gun or knives of baseball bat should have those weapons confiscated by the police.

Brian?

Sweetemotion wrote: »

How do you know that nobody in the area had no issues with the removal?

The city council voted after being pressured not the people. In anyway what if a minority of people wanted to keep the statue. Shouldn't they be allowed too? after the left wants the same right for minorities.

How do you know the city council were "pressured"? Could be hey perhaps have been
Lobbied and agreed it was the right thing to do?

marcus001

Akrasia wrote: »

I'll never understand why the police allow people to come to these protests carrying weapons. I know there are open carry laws, but surely the police have some discretion to decide when carrying gun constitutes threatening behaviour or presents a threat to public safety.

Freedom of speech should not include the right to go to an incendiary protest carrying an assault rifle. You can complain about the people shouting 'go home' to the guy standing still and saluting and say that they're bullying him, and intimidating him, but he was the guy who chose to bring a massive gun with him. It's supposed to be a show of force. It doesn't quite work out when you're the only one who actually turned up though.

Anyone who goes to a 'peaceful protest' with a gun or knives of baseball bat should have those weapons confiscated by the police.

Yeah I'm tempted to agree but you never know really. If he didn't have that gun and there were no cameras are we sure he would have walked out unscathed?

If a man standing and saluting a monument in a public park is considered "incendiary" to you, you may be a extremist.

Brian?

marcus001 wrote: »

Yeah I'm tempted to agree but you never know really. If he didn't have that gun and there were no cameras are we sure he would have walked out unscathed?

If a man standing and saluting a monument in a public park is considered "incendiary" to you, you may be a extremist.

Ah come on. A man dressed in a Nazi uniform, giving a Nazi salute is "incendiary" to anyone with even a basic knowledge of the holocaust.

Nazis slaughter millions of innocent people in concentration camps, because no one stood up to them. Never again.

Akrasia

Brian? wrote: »

Ah come on. A man dressed in a Nazi uniform, giving a Nazi salute is "incendiary" to anyone with even a basic knowledge of the holocaust.

Nazis slaughter millions of innocent people in concentration camps, because no one stood up to them. Never again.

TBF, the man in the video I referred to wasn't dressed as a Nazi, he was holding a confederate flag and saluting using the normal military salute

But he was there specifically to make a political statement in sympathy with the white supremacists in Charlottesville, and the counter protesters shouting 'Terrorist go home' might have been invading his personal space, but they were just shouting, and he was the guy who brought a weapon to the protest.

But as per mod instructions, we're not really meant to be focusing on that particular video. There are lots and lots of other videos of heavily armed men in paramilitary uniforms waving nazi flags at supposedly peaceful protests.

Tony EH

Nobody comes out of that video looking well. Let's be honest here.

We have a cosplaying clown, with an AR-15 slung on his shoulder, looking for trouble.

And a load of idiots roaring their heads off at him, within an inch of his face, shouting absolute nonsense.

America...the rest of the world is laughing at you.

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Oki doke, we'll leave it there so.

Billy86

So it seems more of Trump's more vocal, supporters once challenged have gone and lost their collective testicles up their stomach somewhere.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/act-cancel-america-first-rallies-largest-anti-muslim-group-counter-protesters-a7906836.html

The largest anti-Muslim group in the US is cancelling dozens of planned rallies having witnessed the number of anti-right wing protesters who gathered in Boston to demonstrate against white nationalists.

ACT for America was scheduled to hold 67 rallies in 36 states on September 9 to show its support for the “common sense America First” policies proposed by Donald Trump. The group claims the policies “prioritise real protection over political correctness, and celebrate American exceptionalism”.

But after thousands of people turned out to protest against white nationalism and white supremacy in Boston last weekend - a show of strength that led the organisers of the so-called free speech rally to cut short the event - ACT has said it is calling off its own rallies and will hold an online day of action instead.

...

The group did not immediately respond to inquiries. The Southern Poverty Law Centre, an Alabama-based research group that monitors extremism, said since ACT’s founding it had “grown into far and away the largest grassroots anti-Muslim group in America”.

It said that ACT had worked “to advance anti-Muslim legislation at the local and federal level while flooding the American public with wild hate speech demonising Muslims”.

The group quoted a comment made by Ms Gabriel in 2015, in which she said: “Europe will no longer be Europe by 2050. Europe has already become Eurabia. Europe is Eurabia right now.”

Typical bullying cowards, stoke and stoke and stoke the flames until a fire breaks out, then run for cover and look for other people to blame.

The Legend Of Kira

Billy86 wrote: »

So it seems more of Trump's more vocal, supporters once challenged have gone and lost their collective testicles up their stomach somewhere.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/act-cancel-america-first-rallies-largest-anti-muslim-group-counter-protesters-a7906836.html

The largest anti-Muslim group in the US is cancelling dozens of planned rallies having witnessed the number of anti-right wing protesters who gathered in Boston to demonstrate against white nationalists.

ACT for America was scheduled to hold 67 rallies in 36 states on September 9 to show its support for the “common sense America First” policies proposed by Donald Trump. The group claims the policies  “prioritise real protection over political correctness, and celebrate American exceptionalism”.

But after thousands of people turned out to protest against white nationalism and white supremacy in Boston last weekend - a show of strength that led the organisers of the so-called free speech rally to cut short the event - ACT has said it is calling off its own rallies and will hold an online day of action instead.

...

The group did not immediately respond to inquiries. The Southern Poverty Law Centre, an Alabama-based research group that monitors extremism, said since ACT’s founding it had “grown into far and away the largest grassroots anti-Muslim group in America”.

It said that ACT had worked “to advance anti-Muslim legislation at the local and federal level while flooding the American public with wild hate speech demonising Muslims”.

The group quoted a comment made by Ms Gabriel in 2015, in which she said: “Europe will no longer be Europe by 2050. Europe has already become Eurabia. Europe is Eurabia right now.”

Typical bullying cowards, stoke and stoke and stoke the flames until a fire breaks out, then run for cover and look for other people to blame.

I know Act for America are an Anti Islam group, they have positions & opinions that some people mightn,t agree with, but just because they have opinions some people disagree with doesn,t make them bullies, last time I checked Act for America doesn,t go around attacking people in the street they disagree with nor they riot in the streets when left wing speakers are invited to speak at colleges unlike some on the other side, ok so they oppose Islam , so what if they oppose Islam ? to do a comparison some groups actively oppose Scientology , no one calls such  groups that oppose Scientology as " racist " etc, why is it ok to oppose Scientology but somehow " racist " to oppose Islam ?

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Thread reopened. Please read the mod warning in post #1 if you haven't been following the other mod warnings.

Relevant posts moved over from the Trump thread.