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"Discrimination by Ryanair"

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13

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    #62
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,097 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    His discrimination
    So you are basically accusing a Captain of discriminating against a disabled person..... . You havent considered the fact that he/she is responsible for the safety of EVERYONE onboard that aircraft?


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    #63
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Because the PIC bears ultimate responsibility for the aircraft and the passengers and he or she would be a complete fool not to ask and keep asking questions until they were satisfied the flight can be operated safely......

    .....have a look at the number of crashes, incidents etc that can be attributed to PICs or second officers not asking questions, or deferring to others - over the last two decades huge efforts have been made to make sure air crew do ask questions and push until they get satisfactory answers instead of working off assumptions or accepting information at face value.

    in this case the PIC was spot on - any doubt, chuck it out! Better to face the 'wrath' of joe duffy and a few outraged snowflakes than an emergency landing with a fire onboard

    the outrage from the non snowflakes is justified. the only place snowflakes exist is in the sky and on the ground should they fall, however this weather is not the right conditions for snow so therefore there will be no snowflakes.
    irishman86 wrote: »
    Another yawn story with nothing happening worthy of news at all

    wrong, something happened and the story is not yawn. the lengths people will go to make excuses for this company while bashing the others is laughable.
    smurfjed wrote: »
    So you are basically accusing a Captain of discriminating against a disabled person..... . You havent considered the fact that he/she is responsible for the safety of EVERYONE onboard that aircraft?

    both separate issues, which don't excuse each other.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #64
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Having inadequate policies and procedures to deal with people with disabilities is a form of discrimination.
    This is not a small regional airline, this is a company worth €14 billion with thousands of employees.
    Perhaps the pilot can be exonerated for putting safety first - but Ryanair as a company cannot.
    They should not have put their pilot in a position where he had to make this kind of decision at short notice.

    Passengers are asked to bring the operating instructions to the airport. - The passenger obviously did not have this with her, how is that Ryanair's fault??


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    #65
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Passengers are asked to bring the operating instructions to the airport. - The passenger obviously did not have this with her, how is that Ryanair's fault??

    As far as I know, they filled out the forms Ryanair asked them to fill out... if the answer to this question is so important, why isn't it on the form???
    Why does the pilot have to ask a passenger for this information?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #66
    NewApproach
    Registered Users Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭NewApproach


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Having inadequate policies and procedures to deal with people with disabilities is a form of discrimination.
    This is not a small regional airline, this is a company worth €14 billion with thousands of employees.
    Perhaps the pilot can be exonerated for putting safety first - but Ryanair as a company cannot.
    They should not have put their pilot in a position where he had to make this kind of decision at short notice.

    The captain has ultimate responsibility for the safety of the flights he is captain for, not Ryanair. So it is his call as to whether he is happy for this wheelchair to be on the flight, not Ryanair's. Obviously Ryanair can provide operating guidelines etc to make 99% of flights such that decisions like this don't need to be made by captains, or alternatively providing them with a suite of information to be able to make a decision quickly.

    Ultimately its the captain's decision and I actually think this episode reflects very well on both the captain and Ryanair, as it demonstrates that they clearly don't take any shortcuts whatsoever when it comes to safety.


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    #67
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    NewApproach wrote: »
    Ultimately its the captain's decision and I actually think this episode reflects very well on both the captain and Ryanair, as it demonstrates that they clearly don't take any shortcuts whatsoever when it comes to safety.

    Clearly Ryanair had a systems failure here. This should have been asked and answered and dealt with waaaay before the wheelchair ever got on the plane.

    If there was a risk to having the wheelchair on the plane... then it has to be a safety and systems failure to allowing the wheelchair on the plane full stop?

    Policies and procedures are there for a reason.
    Take a shortcut with them and you put yourself at risk of incidents.
    Having inadquate policies to deal with people with disabilities is one of those shortcuts.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #68
    vegetables
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭vegetables


    Being in a minority of some sort of other these days is a free pass to being listened to, in a society which really doesn't care.

    Otherwise you just get swept into the 'yeah whatever' category.

    In general.

    Complaint = Give them the 'puter says no act and a number for our Indian call center, tell them to write a letter and we'll get back to them in a month.


    Complaint + minority status = Quick get the gold threaded ass pillow. Ohhh special one, how have we wronged thee.
    We beg of you, do not put us in minority whingebag magazine. Let not our name be forsaken unto the Joe Duffy show.


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    #69
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    If a wet cell leaks then it's corrode the aluminium the plane is made out of.

    Yes some one in Ryanair messed up on the questionnaire.

    but the passenger got to their destination and most important of all Ryanair gets more free publicity.


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    #70
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    RasTa wrote: »
    No, do you? All they had to do was google the make and model number to find out the wattage
    You don't typically buy electric wheelchairs off the shelf; they're typically custom built. Only way to be sure is to look at the label on the battery.


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    #71
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,097 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    smurfjed said:
    So you are basically accusing a Captain of discriminating against a disabled person..... . You havent considered the fact that he/she is responsible for the safety of EVERYONE onboard that aircraft?


    EOTR, as you want both of these issues to be separate, how would you deal with them?
    As for the solution above that the Captain should google the chair type and battery......  unfortunately we seriously do not have the time to do this, or in some cases the internet access.
    (PS I dont fly for FR)


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    #72
    jamesbere
    Registered Users Posts: 5,022 ✭✭✭jamesbere


    Not to divert from this story but was there anymore on that woman earlier in the year who wasn't allowed on a Ryanair flight cos she forgot to update her wheelchair details on her flight and ranted on Facebook and got publicly shot down


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    #73
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    irelandrover wrote: »
    I fully agree. THere is no situation where the passenger would change their wheelchair between booking and flights.

    It would be exceptional. Motor chairs are incredibly expensive and take a long time to be built and calibrated for the individual user.
    Passengers are also completely trustworthy and would never lie on such forms.

    In general, yes. Airline passengers have to put up with enough bullsh!t without having to go through extra sh!te because they might be liars, as do disabled individuals.

    If this documentation is required, it should be spelled out in gigantic warnings at the booking stage when one is first booking their flights (IE, not feckin' section 112 subparagraph a or whatever of the terms and conditions). Or they should be asked at the check in desk, the security area, or even the departure gate. It should not be an issue which comes up while boarding, and it should be down to airport staff, not the pilot, to make such decisions.


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    #74
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    As far as I know, they filled out the forms Ryanair asked them to fill out... if the answer to this question is so important, why isn't it on the form???
    Why does the pilot have to ask a passenger for this information?

    Because the t&cs explicitly state you have to bring the manual. I'm sure every chair is different, so the "form" would be reams of pages long.

    The pilot doesn't have to ask these questions, but the pilot in question was vigilant enough to have the chair removed to ensure it was safe to fly before allowing it to fly.


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    #75
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    So if it's an explicit requirement - like a boarding pass and passport, why wasn't it picked up prior to boarding? While the Captain's adherence to his passengers safety is fantastic, surely it should never have reached the stage a person with wheelchair is ordered off a plane they have boarded without once being pulled up for failing to have the required documentation necessary to fly... :confused:


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    #76
    Nabber
    Registered Users Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    I remember when I lived in the states there was a local guy who wasn't allowed on the plane for a similar reason. He didn't know the spec of the wheelchair.

    Anyway, turns out he was an over weight guy, who got so lazy he was dependent on the wheel chair.
    I thought to myself, **** that guy.

    Ever since then when ever I hear disabled I make no judgement till I know the disablement.
    Visually impaired could mean they have a stye in their eye


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    #77
    Foweva Awone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Foweva Awone


    jamesbere wrote: »
    Not to divert from this story but was there anymore on that woman earlier in the year who wasn't allowed on a Ryanair flight cos she forgot to update her wheelchair details on her flight and ranted on Facebook and got publicly shot down

    I saw her in the news again recently actually.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/charity-now-accused-of-financial-irregularities-told-student-20-it-couldnt-afford-to-fund-her-counselling-sessions-35994082.html


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    #78
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    She didn't know the voltage on her chair, so that's her fault for not knowing. Ryanair states a total of 300 watts on their website.

    They asked, she was unable to provide an answer, so they told her to leave the plane with the chair, badly handled but both parties were at fault.


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    #79
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I hope she never tries to get on a bus when there's already 2 buggies on it. Dublin Bus will be in the news for "discrimination".

    The buggies are required to move.


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    #80
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Erik Shin wrote: »
    It was a return leg ffs, they had already flown to Birmingham from Dublin....daft reaction from the pilot, a quick call would have sorted it minutes

    Neither the pilot nor the wheelchair user knew what the wattage was on the chair. She didn't have this information. Pilot on first leg probably didn't pick it up.

    Student ID is mandatory for using students tickets on the Dublin bus but sure how many people have actually been inspected for it....just unlucky...


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    #81
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    The pilot is responsible for the aircraft, he flagged it.

    Maybe the pilot on the way over wasn't responsible enough?

    The only thing the pilot needs to know is if it's a dry or wet cell battery. This information was given by the passenger upon booking, at the gate boarding in Dublin and again at the gate in Birmingham. She then provided the same information to the stewardess. The captain the started asking irrelevant spec questions that she has no reason to know and no obligation to provide.

    The pilot ****ed up.


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    #82
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Neither the pilot nor the wheelchair user knew what the wattage was on the chair. She didn't have this information. Pilot on first leg probably didn't pick it up.

    Student ID is mandatory for using students tickets on the Dublin bus but sure how many people have actually been inspected for it....just unlucky...

    The wattage is a non-issue. That was the pilot not knowing his job. She provided the information she was required to.


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    #83
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    The only thing the pilot needs to know is if it's a dry or wet cell battery. This information was given by the passenger upon booking, at the gate boarding in Dublin and again at the gate in Birmingham. She then provided the same information to the stewardess. The captain the started asking irrelevant spec questions that she has no reason to know and no obligation to provide.

    The pilot ****ed up.

    WRONG!!
    The staff asked Ms McGovern whether she knew the voltage of her chair

    She didn't know..and then told to disembark from the plane. If it's a non-issue why is it there a limit clearly stated on their website?


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    #84
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    WRONG!!



    She didn't know..and then told to disembark from the plane. If it's a non-issue why is it there a limit clearly stated on their website?

    It's irrelevant. The voltage, wattage or anything else other than whether or not it's a dry cell battery are irrelevant.


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    #85
    FizzleSticks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭FizzleSticks


    This post has been deleted.


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    #86
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I wonder was it a case of the person passing on the request getting the terms wrong; the pilot asked for clarification of the wattage, the person passing on the request asks for the voltage by accident, she doesn't know cause she's used to being asked for the wattage or cell type so can't give an answer without looking at the chair.

    I can't see the value in being asked for the voltage. You can't directly tell anything relevant about the capability/danger of the battery without other information. Their own website mentions 300 Watts and the type of cell, nothing about voltage, someone somewhere is getting mixed up.


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    #87
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,097 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    The captain the started asking irrelevant spec questions that she has no reason to know and no obligation to provide. 

    The pilot ****ed up.
    Based on your comments, I assume that you are an expert in the carriage of dangerous goods?


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    #88
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Based on your comments, I assume that you are an expert in the carriage of dangerous goods?

    I've been known to deliver some hazardous payloads after a few pints of stout.


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    #89
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Foweva Awone wrote: »
    I saw her in the news again recently actually.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/charity-now-accused-of-financial-irregularities-told-student-20-it-couldnt-afford-to-fund-her-counselling-sessions-35994082.html

    Strange it's not mentioned in the article....


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    #90
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    GritBiscuit wrote: »
    So if it's an explicit requirement - like a boarding pass and passport, why wasn't it picked up prior to boarding? While the Captain's adherence to his passengers safety is fantastic, surely it should never have reached the stage a person with wheelchair is ordered off a plane they have boarded without once being pulled up for failing to have the required documentation necessary to fly... :confused:

    I'd imagine it's for situations such as this one. If the pilot is unhappy it takes 2 mins to check the manual. Would have resolved everything straight away.


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    #91
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    The only thing the pilot needs to know is if it's a dry or wet cell battery. This information was given by the passenger upon booking, at the gate boarding in Dublin and again at the gate in Birmingham. She then provided the same information to the stewardess. The captain the started asking irrelevant spec questions that she has no reason to know and no obligation to provide.

    The pilot ****ed up.

    Wrong. The battery can only have a wattage up to 300. She was asked the wattage and didn't know. The pilot was 100% correct.


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