18 people convicted sexual exploitation Newcastle

jackofalltrades

Grayson wrote: »

And to be digress and address your point about child marriage, two thousand years ago that wasn't unusual.

Do you have sources that shows marrying a 6 year old and have sex with a 9 year old were usual at the time?

Most religions are littered with rape. Loads have slavery and even genocide. That's not excusing what he did, it's putting it into context.
None of those people from back then come out smelling of roses. It was a brutal time.

Why are you putting it into context?
Islam doesn't believe in moral relativism, it doesn't change.
If it was fine then it's fine now.

ceadaoin.

Widdershins wrote: »

Now as for this news story, what would people say if the 'native' non-Muslim Geordies were found to be abusing Syrian refugees, and the same thing was replicated across Britain?

Funnily enough, this question never seems to be answered, at least not that I can recall. Pretty sure we know what those posters would be saying if the roles were reversed. They do too, which is why they never answer this, because it would reveal blatant hypocrisy

RDM_83 again

Grayson wrote: »

I agree. But the reason I mentioned it is because of what I mentioned earlier. It's wrong to hold one religion to a higher standard than another. Statistically the bible wins hands down when it comes to violence.

I just wouldn't assume that muslims believe child marriage is ok because it says it in the Koran just like I wouldn't believe that christians think slavery is ok because it's in the new testament.

Which is why I hate it when someone brings up Mohammad marrying a child. Yes it's horrible but if it's relevant to modern day Islam then so is the genocide in the bible. And that's because I'm applying the same standard/argument to both religions. If it doesn't work for both religions than it's a dodgy argument and the logic used is incorrect.

Thats a false comparison,

(1) we are generally talking about (western) Christianity when this conversation happens, the level of application of "Old Testament" stuff is debatable, directly applicable to this are Acts 15:1-29, there is lots of stuff about viewing the "Old Testament" through Christ - how to view the old Testament is still debatable

(2) The Bible and Koran are completely different beasts, one is men writing about God, the other is a direct dictation from God, there is no self reference in the Bible, there is plenty of self -reference in the Koran, when you think about it at all these fundamental differences are clear- why is their such an emphasis on learning Arabic, its because a translation is not really a Koran

2- Is really important because you can easily argue to re-interpret the Bible in different ways or apply a fuzzy way of thinking to it, this is much more difficult to do with the Koran.

Anyway in relation to the Jews being treated better under Islam than Western Christianity thats probably the case, it does not mean that they weren't by definition 2n class citizens and progroms and so on weren't a thing. Here is a geographically specific example of events at a major Jewish center in the supposedly very "tolerant" Islamic world.
http://www.bh.org.il/jewish-community-fez-morocco/

The_Kew_Tour

Sure while we are at it lets talk about the bad guys Germany and Russia in World War 2

Captain Obvious

gitzy16v wrote: »

For all the Islamic defenders here..
Can anybody name a country or area that has benifitted from an increase in Islam?
If its so fcuking great we should all sign up.
If its making no difference than nothings better or worse.
If its causing issues it should be stopped.(I see plenty of problems,that were not here or at least as big until Islam started increasing in influence)

One thing I know is that Ireland has prospered from a decrease in Christianity,dont want an increase in another crap ideology.

I haven't seen anyone defending Islam. Who are you referring to?

Luis B wrote: »

Despicable comment. There is massive issue with Muslim men preying on young white girls. You dare accuse him of being some kind of racist because he shows you the evidence?? What is wrong with you?

There's also a massive issue with white men doing it. The biggest offenders are family members of the victims. What exactly is your point? What is your solution to the issue as you see it?

Luis B wrote: »

Maybe you're a muslim and you're offended? Well tough ****.

I despise organised religion.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Shared habits, so do you consider people who piss in the shower to be a race?
Shared characterises, do you consider red haired people or goths to be a race?
Shared interests, are people who collect stamps a race?

If you consider people who share an ideology to be a race then capitalists and socialists are a race too.
You've quickly walked into a situation where every group of people is a race.

From the sources I cited and the bits that you conveniently left out.
Oxford English dictionaries.
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics. ‘people of all races, colours, and creeds’

Dictionary.com
3. Anthropology.
(no longer in technical use) any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics.
an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
a socially constructed category of identification based on physical characteristics, ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture:
Her parents wanted her to marry within her race.
a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.

Yourdictionary.com
any of the different varieties or populations of human beings distinguished by a) physical traits such as hair color and texture, eye color, skin color, or body shape: traditionally, the three primary divisions are Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid, although many subdivisions of these are also called racesb) blood types c) genetic code patterns d) all their inherited characteristics which are unique to their isolated breeding population

Cambridge dictionary
a group, especially of people, with particular similar physical characteristics, who are considered as belonging to the same type, or the fact of belonging to such a group:

Racism is implying negative trait in groups of people, you're saying that these traits are inherent in them on a genetic level.
Expanding this to people who choose an ideology is farcical.

But most muslims don't choose to be muslim. They are born into it, often in countries where to stray from or criticise it is a criminal offence. Does that mean we should accept muslim practices that do not conform with our own? Absolutely not. Does it mean we should treat every muslim like a time bomb? Not in the slightest.

Don't blame me if your own sources make a fool of your point by the way. The definition of racism is quite clear but what the term race covers appears to be pretty widely varied.

FraR

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Funnily enough, this question never seems to be answered, at least not that I can recall. Pretty sure we know what those posters would be saying if the roles were reversed. They do too, which is why they never answer this, because it would reveal blatant hypocrisy

There would be no deflection and cover up and rightfully so. Why the double standards?

Danzy

FraR wrote: »

There would be no deflection and cover up and rightfully so. Why the double standards?

Some have inherent rights and others have inherent guilt.

The Left today has tied itself up in a straightjacket.

The rapists are not the only ones who see these girls as "White Trash" for that reason stories like this will continue to grow and fester.

These girls are being sacrificed on the Altar of Middle-Class idealism and smug righteousness, the very things that have so broken the Left as a movement.

On a more cynical note, they also do not want to risk a key block vote by making too big a fuss and the Police and Social Service do not want to draw down heat for calling this out, they've been blocked from acting before and why destroy one's career and be labeled a Racist when you'll get nowhere.

FraR

I suspect there's a lot of truth in what you're saying. The victims have been thrown to the wolves.

Spider Web

I dunno. The middleclass virtue signallers love the working class (albeit in a condescending way) - they think they're a charming bunch.

They just don't want to be too critical of the abusers because of the abusers' ethnicity and are afraid of demonstrating a view that rightwingers will agree with (because that's much more important than condemning child abuse, obviously). If the abuse was by catholic priests, do you think they'd be paying no heed to the victims because they're working-class?

Danzy

Spider Web wrote: »

I dunno. The middleclass virtue signallers love the working class (albeit in a condescending way) - they think they're a charming bunch.

They just don't want to be too critical of the abusers because of the abusers' ethicity and are afraid of demonstrating a view that rightwingers will agree with (because that's much more important than condemning child abuse, obviously). If the abuse was by catholic priests, do you think they'd be paying no heed to the victims because they're working-class?

I don't think they would care anymore, their reaction would be based on the Perp. rather than the victim.

The like the idea of the Working Class, they don't like the Working Class.

Everything the Modern Middle-Class Left loves has come from Neoliberalism, including their own status in society.

There is absolutely no direction or focus anymore on the Left. It is a dead movement.

They certainly are defining themselves by what others are for or against.

I think neoliberal growth is impressive but it is cancerous, it is destroying the host.

kittensmittens

tomwaterford wrote: »

So you have no evidence

Just pure made it up??
Where have I said the racial aspect should be covered up?(more fantasy!)

Not sure if this link will work as on my phone. Not the first one of these I have seen or heard of




www.thesun.ie/news/1195381/gardai-anxious-to-quiz-man-over-the-claimed-attempted-abduction-of-two-year-old-girl-at-dublin-shopping

Benjamin Buttons

kittensmittens wrote: »

Not sure if this link will work as on my phone. Not the first one of these I have seen or heard of




www.thesun.ie/news/1195381/gardai-anxious-to-quiz-man-over-the-claimed-attempted-abduction-of-two-year-old-girl-at-dublin-shopping

No, you most have posted the wrong link. Your one above is about a ''claimed attempted abduction'' of a two-year-old girl at Dublin shopping centre, so obviously nothing whatsoever to do with the thread title and/or topic under discussion.

Captain Obvious

You guys are so full of ****. Show me one poster that doesn't think any child abusers should be thrown in prison for the rest of their lives or that abuse victims should be treated with sympathy and care. You guys aren't worried about the perp or the victim, just about making the muslim religion the big bad evil. What is your end game anyway? I don't get your motivation. Let's say you get everyone to believe that all muslims are peadophile time bombs, what then? What is your solution or plan other than posting lists of crimes committed by muslims?

suicide_circus

Yes that's right, let it all out.

kittensmittens

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

No, you most have posted the wrong link. Your one above is about a ''claimed attempted abduction'' of a two-year-old girl at Dublin shopping centre, so obviously nothing whatsoever to do with the thread title and/or topic under discussion.[/quot

Can only assume that you are being facetious.
Two guys of Pakistani origin snatched a two year old little girl out of her buggy, he actually got a good few feet away with her before the mother wrestled her back from him.
I posted it because people were talking about it not happening here. He said he was just trying to kiss her ffs.
What do you think he would have done to her if they had been successful in the snatching???
Played peek a boo with her??
Ffs

Captain Obvious

kittensmittens wrote: »

Can only assume that you are being facetious.
Two guys of Pakistani origin snatched a two year old little girl out of her buggy, he actually got a good few feet away with her before the mother wrestled her back from him.
I posted it because people were talking about it not happening here. He said he was just trying to kiss her ffs.
What do you think he would have done to her if they had been successful in the snatching???
Played peek a boo with her??
Ffs

Who said child abduction doesn't happen here?

Luis B

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You guys are so full of ****. Show me one poster that doesn't think any child abusers should be thrown in prison for the rest of their lives or that abuse victims should be treated with sympathy and care. You guys aren't worried about the perp or the victim, just about making the muslim religion the big bad evil. What is your end game anyway? I don't get your motivation. Let's say you get everyone to believe that all muslims are peadophile time bombs, what then? What is your solution or plan other than posting lists of crimes committed by muslims?

You claim to despise religion but you get seriously offended when people point Muslim rape gangs? You get similarly offended when people talk about the Catholic pedo scandal?

And your attitude is the same miserable, slimy attitude that allowed these atrocities to go on for so long 'don't rock the multi cultural boat, best not to offend the Pakistani community.' Get stuffed.

kittensmittens

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Who said child abduction doesn't happen here?

It was earlier in the thread, it went back and forth about the UK and these Muslim/Pakistani/Indian gangs grooming and raping children. Some posters said it wouldn't happen here, others said it's already happening he. Then the usual "prove it" .
I provided proof but apparently it wasn't quite good enough, as you know, because he didn't actually get her because the mother fought him and got her two year old little girl back and she wasn't actually raped.
The pedantics of it.
Jesus wept.
Edit BTW nice strawman

Grayson

Luis B wrote: »

You claim to despise religion but you get seriously offended when people point Muslim rape gangs? You get similarly offended when people talk about the Catholic pedo scandal?

And your attitude is the same miserable, slimy attitude that allowed these atrocities to go on for so long 'don't rock the multi cultural boat, best not to offend the Pakistani community.' Get stuffed.

Except he said that child abusers should go to prison. Which is the exact opposite of what you're saying he said.

Seriously, point out a single place in this thread where anyone was ok with child abuse being committed by anyone, of any religion. Point out a single place where people have said that they shouldn't be arrested and stopped. Point out a place where people have said that they shouldn't be locked up.

Benjamin Buttons

kittensmittens wrote: »

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

No, you most have posted the wrong link. Your one above is about a ''claimed attempted abduction'' of a two-year-old girl at Dublin shopping centre, so obviously nothing whatsoever to do with the thread title and/or topic under discussion.[/quot

Can only assume that you are being facetious.
Two guys of Pakistani origin snatched a two year old little girl out of her buggy, he actually got a good few feet away with her before the mother wrestled her back from him.
I posted it because people were talking about it not happening here. He said he was just trying to kiss her ffs.
What do you think he would have done to her if they had been successful in the snatching???
Played peek a boo with her??
Ffs

Oh, I thought the thread was about 'grooming' or 'gang grooming'.
Are you now suggesting that people of Asian origin are more likely to snatch a child than someone who is Irish, or dare I say white. If not then why post a clipping of that particular story which has nothing whatsoever to do with grooming or sexual exploitation.
What's the thread title?

Danzy

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

kittensmittens wrote: »

Oh, I thought the thread was about 'grooming' or 'gang grooming'.
Are you now suggesting that people of Asian origin are more likely to snatch a child than someone who is Irish, or dare I say white. If not then why post a clipping of that particular story which has nothing whatsoever to do with grooming or sexual exploitation.
What's the thread title?

Culture matters, colour does not.

Please stop looking at everything through the prism of pigmentation.

Spider Web

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You guys are so full of ****. Show me one poster that doesn't think any child abusers should be thrown in prison for the rest of their lives or that abuse victims should be treated with sympathy and care. You guys aren't worried about the perp or the victim, just about making the muslim religion the big bad evil. What is your end game anyway? I don't get your motivation. Let's say you get everyone to believe that all muslims are peadophile time bombs, what then? What is your solution or plan other than posting lists of crimes committed by muslims?

Calm down - don't be telling people whose minds you cannot read, that they don't care about the victim. That's a pretty extraordinary and malicious (and utterly unfounded!) conclusion to jump to about all of us. Bear in mind there are unfortunately survivors of sexual abuse anywhere, so be considerate of whom you may be speaking to.

Yes of course you would be hard pressed to find someone who is actually ok with the abuse, and who isn't repulsed, angered and saddened by it. Same as with any child abuse case.

And yes there are people who are grabbing this opportunity to have a go at all muslims, but really, you have utterly no grounds for accusing everyone here posting in a fashion you dislike of same. You certainly have no grounds for accusing all here of aiming to have everyone believe all muslims are all paedophile time bombs. You must realise that your post just looks rather irrational.

The issue I and others take is with the cover-up of the sex abuse rings in England due to fear of being viewed as racist because of the ethnicity of the majority involved. Never mind people saying "That's not true - it's because the girls were poor and disenfranchised" (another meanspirited red herring) - most people just find child abuse horrific, no matter what background the child is from. It has been established that fear of being seen as racist - by the police, the local authorities and the press - was what led to silence relating to these atrocities. To let those girls suffer and remain at risk for such a piss-poor reason, is an utter scandal.

And now there are still people more concerned about Islam being criticised than the actual abuse - or more concerned about branding people muslim haters for their concern with the downplaying of the matter (like you were doing!)

I don't care who carries out child abuse - whether they are Roman catholic priests, or BBC personalities from the 60s to the 80s, or muslims... I just don't want a cover-up and a difference in how they are treated to other dangerous sadists. And with regard to the three examples I listed, ALL of them involved cover-ups. None should be downplayed or met with whataboutery... which is actually what is still only leading to hostility towards muslims anyway.

I do not want all muslims to be mistreated for it. I believe this abuse stems from a terrible attitude towards females which is integral to certain strains of islam though (and therefore would wish to see protection of muslim women and girls who are on the receiving end of it). I also believe the abuse by catholic priests stemmed from a sadistic attitude towards children and women.

Captain Obvious

Luis B wrote: »

You claim to despise religion but you get seriously offended when people point Muslim rape gangs? You get similarly offended when people talk about the Catholic pedo scandal?

If you were to use the priest abuse scandal to tar all catholics as potential abusers I'd be pretty annoyed alright.

Luis B wrote: »

And your attitude is the same miserable, slimy attitude that allowed these atrocities to go on for so long 'don't rock the multi cultural boat, best not to offend the Pakistani community.' Get stuffed.

When have I said anything about not rocking a cultural boat? The complete opposite. A persons race, religion or ethnicity should play no part at all in how they are treated by the justice system.

And it's actually your attitude that will be most harmful. Much like the harm done by the stranger danger nonsense in the US. If you paint the bogeyman as an immigrant muslim then people won't see the real danger that looks nothing like him.

kittensmittens wrote: »

It was earlier in the thread, it went back and forth about the UK and these Muslim/Pakistani/Indian gangs grooming and raping children. Some posters said it wouldn't happen here, others said it's already happening he. Then the usual "prove it" .
I provided proof but apparently it wasn't quite good enough, as you know, because he didn't actually get her because the mother fought him and got her two year old little girl back and she wasn't actually raped.
The pedantics of it.
Jesus wept.
Edit BTW nice strawman

What did you provide proof of? One incident of a brown skinned man trying to take a child. What exactly do you think this is proof of? Would you like to take a look at the statisitics of sex offenders in Ireland? See how many are white? How many are family members? The group 1 in 4 didn't arise out of some immigration crisis. Ye act like immigrants will bring some child abuse apocalypse when in reality the salt of the earth Irish have already done so.

Danzy

I see that Sarah Champion, the Labour Equalities Spokesperson has had to step down for calling this out.

If this is what happens to her, is it any wonder that a Police man or Social Serice worker, who has so much more to lose is going to turn a lind eye to these crimes, you'll be fought every step of the way and more than likely achieve nothing but destroying your own life.

Labour could be in next time, how long do you think you'd last in the job if you were complaining about this now?

BillyBobBS

Danzy wrote: »

I see that Sarah Champion, the Labour Equalities Spokesperson has had to step down for calling this out.

If this is what happens to her, is it any wonder that a Police man or Social Serice worker, who has so much more to lose is going to turn a lind eye to these crimes, you'll be fought every step of the way and more than likely achieve nothing but destroying your own life.

Labour could be in next time, how long do you think you'd last in the job if you were complaining about this now?

It's my firm held belief that liberals are on a mission to totally and completely destroy western values as they preach at the alter of multiculturalism.

Spider Web

Danzy wrote: »

I see that Sarah Champion, the Labour Equalities Spokesperson has had to step down for calling this out.

So fecking disturbing. Having to step down because she told the truth in relation to child abuse but didn't use more subtle wording. It's capitulation to the mob.

Ulysses Gaze

Spider Web wrote: »

So fecking disturbing. Having to step down because she told the truth in relation to child abuse but didn't use more subtle wording. It's capitulation to the mob.

Disturbing because the Labour Party is riven with Anti-Semitism....and will not expel Ken Livingstone from the party even though he is a mendacious Anti-Semite.

Danzy

"Sarah Champion resigns from Labour shadow cabinet over Pakistani rapists column

I'm actually fairly disturbed by this in all honesty. If this is the direction society is headed in then we are all in very big trouble indeed.

The MP for Rotherham's piece was headlined: "British Pakistani men ARE raping and exploiting white girls... and it's time we faced up to it." This isn't a story she made up or dreamt this is an actual problem that exists in UK society and despite cover up's from powerful people within the establishment and liberals are being exposed on a weekly basis now.

Furthermore, this is a woman who has campaigned on crucial issues around child protection her entire political career and now when she steps forward with the truth she get's told to resign."

A hard to disagree comment from another.

Ulysses Gaze

Danzy wrote: »

"Sarah Champion resigns from Labour shadow cabinet over Pakistani rapists column

I'm actually fairly disturbed by this in all honesty. If this is the direction society is headed in then we are all in very big trouble indeed.

The MP for Rotherham's piece was headlined: "British Pakistani men ARE raping and exploiting white girls... and it's time we faced up to it." This isn't a story she made up or dreamt this is an actual problem that exists in UK society and despite cover up's from powerful people within the establishment and liberals are being exposed on a weekly basis now.

Furthermore, this is a woman who has campaigned on crucial issues around child protection her entire political career and now when she steps forward with the truth she get's told to resign."

A hard to disagree comment from another.

She also stated that even to this day, she had 10 girls a week, A WEEK, coming to her office about abuse they had or were suffering.

But no problems according to the Far Left. Nothing to see here.

Kivaro

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

She also stated that even to this day, she had 10 girls a week, A WEEK, coming to her office about abuse they had or were suffering.

But no problems according to the Far Left. Nothing to see here.

But it is not just the Far Left though, which is the troubling part.
How many from the Liberal & Feminist branches of Labor are actively engaged to keep these stories quiet ........... i.e. we are not suppose to talk about it and if we do ask questions then we are racists.

People should aspire to be like Sarah Champion but she is denigrated.
Strange auld world we are living in these days.