14 year-old using whey protein

alanog1

Whey is an ingredient in a lot of the foods we eat including milk. Breast milk protein is mostly made up of whey. As this is considered the gold standard for feeding a child then whey cannot be "bad" for you. It is essentially just powdered food and is considered a whole food

alanog1

Whey is present in most of the foods we eat, including milk. Breast milk protein is almost entirely whey. If this is considered the gold standard for feeding an infant then whey cannot be considered "bad". It is essentially just powdered food, but for a 14 year old it is probably not going to do anything for him because he will be burning so many calories

bings92

Some of these shakes contain creatine. The body produces creatine & if you take extra creatine then you will have to drink gallons of water to wash the excess creatine out of your body. Be carefull of these shakes as they can be harmfull to the body. If he is taking the shakes he will not be hungry. My son is 6ft 5ins weighs 75 kilo very fit 28 yrs. Lives in IOWA USA. Goes to the gym, golf's, ten pin bowling, My son can't put on weight. He was always fit. There is no need for shakes I do realise that you said he is not a great at eating. I would suggest that he go have a talk to his G.P. or dietition before he goes down the road of protien shakes. I wonder if he is listening to his friends who are telling him that these shakes are great for him. But at 14 yrs is very young to start shakes he is still growing. My son is into fitness

cormie

Mellor wrote: »

.

You being an omnivore is indeed your own personal choice, a choice that has been heavily influenced by what you were raised eating, society etc. Saying he's bending the truth makes it sound like the information is incorrect, he's simply presenting research and studies which promote the idea of not causing harm where harm isn't needed.

I'm no way saying diets are equal as long as they meet minimum guidelines, just in terms of this one particular element, protein.

The OP is concerned about the health of their adolescent child, posting an informative video that highlights concerns about exactly what the OP is concerned about is not unsolicited. Also, I never said I was vegan

You're assuming that the examples he gave are steroid users just because they have big muscles while following a plant based diet. It's unfair to say "using examples of steroid users" without knowing for sure. I'm not saying they aren't and they may well be, but non steroid using, non protein supplement taking omnivores I don't think have much advantage over non steroid using, non protein supplement taking herbivores?

Again, I don't see any reference to a standard American diet, just the consumption of animal protein? Also, being vegan doesn't mean being healthy. There's plenty of vegan junk food and plenty of vegans who don't have a clue about nutrition and health.

The first study you link to is proof in itself it's not about being vegan or not. How many of the 48 million Americans with Osteoporisis are vegan I wonder? Calcum, Vitamin D and everything mentioned are all available from non animal sources. Meat is a source of B12 as animals are given B12 supplements. We can skip that step and just take it direct ourselves.

The second study, I just read the part you quoted but the subjects were vegetarian, not vegan, which does not rebut the studies he refers to and may actually support them.






alanog1, I don't think I'll be the only one to say this, but you can't compare whey from a mothers breast milk to whey that's a by product of animal agriculture.

bladespin

bings92 wrote:

Some of these shakes contain creatine. The body produces creatine & if you take extra creatine then you will have to drink gallons of water to wash the excess creatine out of your body. Be carefull of these shakes as they can be harmfull to the body.

They don't, you won't and they're not.

bladespin

bings92 wrote:

Some of these shakes contain creatine. The body produces creatine & if you take extra creatine then you will have to drink gallons of water to wash the excess creatine out of your body. Be carefull of these shakes as they can be harmfull to the body.

They don't, you won't and they're not.

harr

Taking the whey will do no harm to him as people more knowledgeable then me have explained here...the fact is he probably just does not need at it this point in time..he is very active and is probably burning huge amounts of calories so he will probably have to eat bigger portions..at 17-18 when he starts lifting heavier weights then it's the time to be looking at increasing his protein intake by food intake or supplementing his diet with whey protein..

tabby aspreme

Was recently at a talk given to 14/15 year olds starting the Leinster rugby development program, they were told there was no need for any supplements, just eat plenty of non processed fresh food , porridge unsweetened muesli for breakfast, meat fish and veg for protein, spuds pasta bread and pancakes for carbs , fresh fruit, and only drink water or milk , no sports drinks.

harr

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Was recently at a talk given to 14/15 year olds starting the Leinster rugby development program, they were told there was no need for any supplements, just eat plenty of non processed fresh food , porridge unsweetened muesli for breakfast, meat fish and veg for protein, spuds pasta bread and pancakes for carbs , fresh fruit, and only drink water or milk , no sports drinks.

Best advice he is going to get...

Mooooo

cormie wrote: »

You being an omnivore is indeed your own personal choice, a choice that has been heavily influenced by what you were raised eating, society etc. Saying he's bending the truth makes it sound like the information is incorrect, he's simply presenting research and studies which promote the idea of not causing harm where harm isn't needed.

I'm no way saying diets are equal as long as they meet minimum guidelines, just in terms of this one particular element, protein.

The OP is concerned about the health of their adolescent child, posting an informative video that highlights concerns about exactly what the OP is concerned about is not unsolicited. Also, I never said I was vegan

You're assuming that the examples he gave are steroid users just because they have big muscles while following a plant based diet. It's unfair to say "using examples of steroid users" without knowing for sure. I'm not saying they aren't and they may well be, but non steroid using, non protein supplement taking omnivores I don't think have much advantage over non steroid using, non protein supplement taking herbivores?

Again, I don't see any reference to a standard American diet, just the consumption of animal protein? Also, being vegan doesn't mean being healthy. There's plenty of vegan junk food and plenty of vegans who don't have a clue about nutrition and health.

The first study you link to is proof in itself it's not about being vegan or not. How many of the 48 million Americans with Osteoporisis are vegan I wonder? Calcum, Vitamin D and everything mentioned are all available from non animal sources. Meat is a source of B12 as animals are given B12 supplements. We can skip that step and just take it direct ourselves.

The second study, I just read the part you quoted but the subjects were vegetarian, not vegan, which does not rebut the studies he refers to and may actually support them.






alanog1, I don't think I'll be the only one to say this, but you can't compare whey from a mothers breast milk to whey that's a by product of animal agriculture.

Where did you hear that Beef animals are given b12 supplements? ....

tabby aspreme

Mooooo wrote: »

Where did you hear that Beef animals are given b12 supplements? ....

It would be very common to give cattle and sheep mineral and vitamin supplements , some soil types are deficient in certain mineral trace elements and livestock will not thrive without them.

Mooooo

tabby aspreme wrote: »

It would be very common to give cattle and sheep mineral and vitamin supplements , some soil types are deficient in certain mineral trace elements and livestock will not thrive without them.

I'm aware of that but many don't, even when finishing many just use grass and rolled grains to finish depending on time of year. I don't think the b12 from meat is due to the supplementation

Mellor

cormie wrote: »

Saying he's bending the truth makes it sound like the information is incorrect, he's simply presenting research and studies which promote the idea of not causing harm where harm isn't needed.

Bending the truth is disingenuous regardless of whether you lie or not. It's misleading. Just because a statement is technically true doesn't mean it's honest.

Your twisted his video into "whey is dangerous" which is nonsense.

I'm no way saying diets are equal as long as they meet minimum guidelines, just in terms of this one particular element, protein.

You literally used the word equal.

The OP is concerned about the health of their adolescent child, posting an informative video that highlights concerns about exactly what the OP is concerned about is not unsolicited. Also, I never said I was vegan

I didn't see op have any concerns about a animal based diet?

You're assuming that the examples he gave are steroid users just because they have big muscles while following a plant based diet. It's unfair to say "using examples of steroid users" without knowing for sure. I'm not saying they aren't and they may well be,

My assumption has nothing to do with them being vegan. I they were omnivores my opinion would change. One was a IFBB pro bodybuilding champ. Absolutely on steroids.

but non steroid using, non protein supplement taking omnivores I don't think have much advantage over non steroid using, non protein supplement taking herbivores?

I never said they had an advantage.
My point was that using steroid users to make a point about ability to build muscle is misleading.
No sure why you can't understand how thatsvthe case tbh.

Again, I don't see any reference to a standard American diet, just the consumption of animal protein?

In order to say the protein was higher in vegetarians, you need to have another group that it's higher than. If that group is simply a random selection of people, their diet probably wouldn't be great on average. Following?

The first study you link to is proof in itself it's not about being vegan or not. How many of the 48 million Americans with Osteoporisis are vegan I wonder?

According to that study a higher % are probably vegan then the % of the country as a whole.
That's how risk works.

The second study, I just read the part you quoted but the subjects were vegetarian, not vegan,

The study he was quoting, about plasma protein levels, was a vegetarian study, not vegan either.
So you're trying to associate vegan diets with positive studies, nut not negative ones.
Which proves proves my point about cherry picking data.

alanog1, I don't think I'll be the only one to say this, but you can't compare whey from a mothers breast milk to whey that's a by product of animal agriculture.

There's differences between the milks but many of the proteins are the same. Same as the way the sugar in an apple, and in a orange is the same, chemically speaking.

Mellor

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Was recently at a talk given to 14/15 year olds starting the Leinster rugby development program, they were told there was no need for any supplements, just eat plenty of non processed fresh food , porridge unsweetened muesli for breakfast, meat fish and veg for protein, spuds pasta bread and pancakes for carbs , fresh fruit, and only drink water or milk , no sports drinks.

That's pretty much the advice (from most) posters here.

Eat whole food. Eat more whole food to get bigger.

You absolutely don't need protein supplements, nobody does.
But there's no issue or danger if you do use them either. Nutritionally, they are the same as protein in other foodstuffs.

Dtp1979

bings92 wrote: »

Some of these shakes contain creatine. The body produces creatine & if you take extra creatine then you will have to drink gallons of water to wash the excess creatine out of your body. Be carefull of these shakes as they can be harmfull to the body. If he is taking the shakes he will not be hungry. My son is 6ft 5ins weighs 75 kilo very fit 28 yrs. Lives in IOWA USA. Goes to the gym, golf's, ten pin bowling, My son can't put on weight. He was always fit. There is no need for shakes I do realise that you said he is not a great at eating. I would suggest that he go have a talk to his G.P. or dietition before he goes down the road of protien shakes. I wonder if he is listening to his friends who are telling him that these shakes are great for him. But at 14 yrs is very young to start shakes he is still growing. My son is into fitness

Your son sounds underweight TBH. He can't put on weight because he's not eating enough. Simple as that.
And if he was in to his fitness he should probably know protein and creatine are no harm.

AllForIt

OP I wouldn't be too concerned about the protein shakes per-se but what I would watch out for is whether he might be body concious which could lead to an eating disorder. Rugby union referee Nigel Owen who is bulemic did a piece for the BBC recently where on the show one young lad spoke about how he spent a lot of time on instagram and fitness sites where it ended up with him developing an eating disorder. Appears to be a growing problem.

If as you say it's all for the sake of training for his sport then their's nothing to be particularly concerned about and I don't want to worry you unnecessarily but it is something I feel parents should keep an eye out for these days.

Alf Veedersane

AllForIt wrote: »

OP I wouldn't be too concerned about the protein shakes per-se but what I would watch out for is whether he might be body concious which could lead to an eating disorder. Rugby union referee Nigel Owen who is bulemic did a piece for the BBC recently where on the show one young lad spoke about how he spent a lot of time on instagram and fitness sites where it ended up with him developing an eating disorder. Appears to be a growing problem.

If as you say it's all for the sake of training for his sport then their's nothing to be particularly concerned about and I don't want to worry you unnecessarily but it is something I feel parents should keep an eye out for these days.

An eating disorder will manifest itself in his relationship with food - shakes wouldn't be a concern in that regard.

I appreciate that what you're saying is in relation the OP's son possibly becoming fixated on a type of physique and developing am unhealthy relationship with food to try and attain it. But the use of protein shakes isn't a particular red flag in that regard

willmunny1990

The amount of protein people need, even athletes is over exaggerated.

There should be no need for protein shakes, definitely not needed for a 14 year old.

jive

willmunny1990 wrote: »

The amount of protein people need, even athletes is over exaggerated.

There should be no need for protein shakes, definitely not needed for a 14 year old.

This. People should be more concerned about calories than protein. Any reasonable diet with sufficient calories will have sufficient protein.

Adding the word 'protein' in front of a normal food, like chocolate bars and milk, is just a good way to sell things to all the fitness gurus out there.

Mellor

jive wrote: »

This. People should be more concerned about calories than protein. Any reasonable diet with sufficient calories will have sufficient protein.

Adding the word 'protein' in front of a normal food, like chocolate bars and milk, is just a good way to sell things to all the fitness gurus out there.

But calories make you fat...;)

marcus001

The only difference between whey and a chicken breast is whey is cheaper than a chicken breast. About 30-40cent per serving of whey.

There's no reason for a 14 year old not to take it tbh. He probably will benefit from additional protein in his diet if he's active.

marcus001

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh here, jesus!

http://www.badscience.net/

im out, op please dont pump ****e into your child, best of luck

Please don't ever give advice on this forum again.

marcus001

willmunny1990 wrote: »

The amount of protein people need, even athletes is over exaggerated.

There should be no need for protein shakes, definitely not needed for a 14 year old.

1.8 per kilo of lean body mass is what an athlete would require at a minimum. Studies using athletes undergoing weightlifting programs have shown up to 3.8 per kg have resulted in significant gains in strength and size with no gains above that.

The amount of protein you need depends on your goals.

Alf Veedersane

marcus001 wrote: »

1.8 per kilo of lean body mass is what an athlete would require at a minimum. Studies using athletes undergoing weightlifting programs have shown up to 3.8 per kg have resulted in significant gains in strength and size with no gains above that.

The amount of protein you need depends on your goals.

It's a 14-year old boy. Not an elite level athlete needing a high level of muscle mass. Not even an 'athlete'. Just an active 14-year-old.

He should be getting sufficient protein from his diet.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

He should be getting sufficient protein from his diet.

I think you mean he CAN get sufficient protein diet alone. Who knows what he is actually getting. Being a bit underweight and skinny, maybe suggests he isn't. Or maybe not.
If he wasn't getting enough, no difference between getting it in with supplements whey or whole food. Just so what is easiest.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

I think you mean he CAN get sufficient protein diet alone.

No, I mean he should be. Though I'm saying he 'can' rather than he 'is'.

Nothing against supplements. He just shouldn't need them.

Mellor

Agree, not needed.

Personally, I go for mostly food with very few supplements. But if I was constantly falling short, I'd consider adding supplements a much better option than a protein deficit

CPTM

Hey OP - I was the exact same at age 14 and I asked my dad to buy some protein, which he did (after he realised it wasn't anything that would do damage if consumed incorrectly). But, can you please pass on some advice that took me 10 years to learn? I had access to all of the protein in the world, and I drank it (which is the easy bit), but I got no where because I never did the hard bit:

- Leg day is the most important day of the week. If you don't train legs properly, your top half will never reach full potential.

- Protein Supplement is a supplement (not a replacement). If his diet is not on point, the protein will have little or no effect, so it's just a waste. And it's not the case where "Sure I might as well take it anyways, it's better than nothing". If he hasn't eaten properly, he will see zero difference.

- Get a Personal trainer to take him through a training program that would suit his body type / age. Every so often, especially at the beginning when he starts to increase any weight, he should get a follow-up session to check his form with any weight training.

- Slow reps with a lighter weight done properly will build more muscle than a heavy weight swung around the place with momentum behind it.

- For me, I found most gains came from 4 or 5 sets of each exercise, with these rep counts: 15, 15, 12, 8, 6. Increasing weight with each go. But a trainer will show him that.

- Appetite training is a thing. You can build on it. If he starts at 2000 calories, moves to 2200, to 2400 and so on. The amount of food he can consume today doesn't have to be the same in two months time. But he needs to make sure it is balanced and healthy.

Sorry, wanted to give this advice because I spent so long getting no where. I started age 14 taking protein on an empty stomach, doing half squats, flinging bicep reps, stopping for a few weeks at a time, increasing the weight but really only getting 5 reps out of a set (some assisted). I wish I had done more research and listened to those who knew more.

marcus001

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's a 14-year old boy. Not an elite level athlete needing a high level of muscle mass. Not even an 'athlete'. Just an active 14-year-old.

He should be getting sufficient protein from his diet.

That's why the numbers are per kilo of lean body mass. If he's playing sports and exercising 4-5 times a week he would be classed as an athlete for nutrition purposes.

Alf Veedersane

marcus001 wrote: »

That's why the numbers are per kilo of lean body mass. If he's playing sports and exercising 4-5 times a week he would be classed as an athlete for nutrition purposes.

I'd like to see the study that suggests it for a 14-year old.

Again, I'm not knocking supplements. I occasionally take them.

I'm just saying that the OP should be making sure that their son's diet is such that supplements shouldn't be needed.