Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Venezuela is uprising.

Options
245

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    This is said all the time when again one of the nutjob countries fails because of the inevitable outcome that Socialism does not work.

    But it's not socialist. Some people call the Scandinavian countries socialist, but their not and they have larger public sectors than Venezuela. The core principle in Marxist socialism is the working class control the means of production and that's not true in any of these countries. Venezuela is in a mess because of corruption not because of any left-wing policies. But sure don't let anything like pesky facts get in the way.


  • Options
    #33
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dig deeper it probably another funded CIA supported coup.


  • Options
    #34
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Never mind, just looked why am i not surprised.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-venezuela-crisis-government-mike-pompeo-helping-install-new-remarks-a7859771.html


  • Options
    #35
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    BalcombeSt4 wrote:
    But it's not socialist. Some people call the Scandinavian countries socialist, but their not and they have larger public sectors than Venezuela. The core principle in Marxist socialism is the working class control the means of production and that's not true in any of these countries. Venezuela is in a mess because of corruption not because of any left-wing policies. But sure don't let anything like pesky facts get in the way.

    The pesky facts are that if it wasn't socialist then there would be food in the shops just like there is food in our shops.

    You might bear in mind that the USSR, the GDDR et al had lots of empty food shelves and shortages in their socialist hey days. The socialist haven of north Korea finds its citizens having to boil grass to eat.


    Socialism has never worked anywhere and the excuse is always trotted out that it has never been fully implemented. But socialism can't work because it can't deal with the reality of human beings.

    The socialists have been running an oil rich country into the ground. There is no one else to blame.


  • Options
    #36
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    The pesky facts are that if it wasn't socialist then there would be food in the shops just like there is food in our shops.

    You might bear in mind that the USSR, the GDDR et al had lots of empty food shelves and shortages in their socialist hey days. The socialist haven of north Korea finds its citizens having to boil grass to eat.


    Socialism has never worked anywhere and the excuse is always trotted out that it has never been fully implemented. But socialism can't work because it can't deal with the reality of human beings.

    The socialists have been running an oil rich country into the ground. There is no one else to blame.

    China, Scandinavian countries, Vietnam would be considered socialist countries (could list more but you understand?) Even Ireland is a socialist country to a certain degree.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Bogota is currently full of Venezuelans who have fled their country. It's an incredible reverse from the 90s and early 2000s, when Caracas was full of Colombian refugees fleeing the civil war here.

    The Colombian far-right have been using the chaos in Venezuela to undermine the peace deal with the FARC, claiming it will turn the country into the new Venezuela. This is utter nonsense but a lot of people buy it.


  • Options
    #38
    Rumpy Pumpy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    But it's not socialist. Some people call the Scandinavian countries socialist, but their not and they have larger public sectors than Venezuela. The core principle in Marxist socialism is the working class control the means of production and that's not true in any of these countries. Venezuela is in a mess because of corruption not because of any left-wing policies. But sure don't let anything like pesky facts get in the way.

    It's always either the wrong type of socialism, or not enough socialism when the excuses from apologists start to fly.


  • Options
    #39
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    China has only started to become successful once it began introducing capitalist market policies. Venezuela did the opposite.


  • Options
    #40
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »
    It's always either the wrong type of socialism, or not enough socialism when the excuses from apologists start to fly.

    I plan on eating an appropriate hat when it becomes acceptable to say 'but Nazi Germany wasn't really a proper Fascist country' or 'Hitler was only pretending to be a Fascist'.


  • Options
    #41
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »
    The uprising is beautiful.

    Especially when you can switch of the tv and forget about it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    randomjoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 14 ✭randomjoe


    Fair fūcks to the Venezuelan people. Has anyone on here ever visited?


  • Options
    #43
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    China, Scandinavian countries, Vietnam would be considered socialist countries (could list more but you understand?) Even Ireland is a socialist country to a certain degree.

    Scandinavian countries aren't socialist, they are generous welfare states.
    There's no excuse for defending failed communist/socialist states at this point in history.


  • Options
    #44
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    China has only started to become successful once it began introducing capitalist market policies. Venezuela did the opposite.

    Opened it's markets you mean for trade and commerce? China is still a communist/socialist country politically. How can anyone consider it to be a failed state, when it's number one country globally with manufacturing? The Chinese also have an increasing middle class population.


  • Options
    #45
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    randomjoe wrote: »
    Fair fūcks to the Venezuelan people. Has anyone on here ever visited?

    Only to the border town of San Antonio de Tachira for a visa run. That place is a right dump. The Venezuelan soldiers manning the border are utter thugs.


  • Options
    #46
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    Venezuela has had over 22 constitutions. Its has instabiliy engrained into its foundations.

    over 26!


  • Options
    #47
    Achasanai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Achasanai


    Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »
    It's always either the wrong type of socialism, or not enough socialism when the excuses from apologists start to fly.

    Explain to me how a country with such a high level of private enterprise is socialist though?

    This isn't even just people from different political perspectives viewing other perspectives in a 'skewed' manner (we all do that) but Venezuela can't be objectively described as socialist with such a highly developed capitalist and private enterprise sector.

    It has socialist elements - and the government has strong socialist elements - but I think you might need to explain what you think socialism is.


  • Options
    #48
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Ipso wrote: »
    Scandinavian countries aren't socialist, they are generous welfare states.
    There's no excuse for defending failed communist/socialist states at this point in history.

    North Korea is really, the only Stalinist like country left. China and Vietnam have modernism today.

    Scandinavian countries aren't socialist (wrong) The government provides services that everyone benefits from. Socialist policies have shown to be effective in reducing the burden on companies starting up businesses. Imagine the relief when you don't have to pay for someone being sick or having to pay for their education? There tax system is also lot fairer, you pay more if you have more.


  • Options
    #49
    Aristotle145
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Aristotle145


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    This is said all the time when again one of the nutjob countries fails because of the inevitable outcome that Socialism does not work.

    It works in Scandinavia,allthough in a different form of socialism the nordic model.


  • Options
    #50
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Aristotle145 wrote: »
    It works in Scandinavia,allthough in a different form of socialism the nordic model.

    The governments there don't control the means of production. They have a high level of taxation to pay for social services, and lets be honest Irish people would never pay more taxes.


  • Options
    #51
    Aristotle145
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Aristotle145


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »

    Scandinavian countries aren't socialist There tax system is also lot fairer, you pay more if you have more.

    Thats depends on how much you have.
    Some seem to get away with paying no tax at all.,but they still have billions.
    So to say it fair isnt quite right.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Aristotle145
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Aristotle145


    Ipso wrote: »
    The governments there don't control the means of production. They have a high level of taxation to pay for social services, and lets be honest Irish people would never pay more taxes.

    They still do,some of Norways biggest companies are goverment run.
    Statoil was run 100% by the goverment,but that was changed to 67/33 a few years ago.
    And i dont think the taxes are any higher in Norway then in Ireland.


  • Options
    #53
    Balmed Out
    Registered Users Posts: 4,714 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    randomjoe wrote:
    Fair fūcks to the Venezuelan people. Has anyone on here ever visited?


    Yeah but about ten years ago. Really beautiful and physically diverse country. At the time half loved chavez half hated him, no centre ground.


  • Options
    #54
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,813 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Balmed Out wrote: »
    At the time half loved chavez half hated him, no centre ground.

    Yeah, very divisive character, all the hallmarks of an autocratic leader. The man, and his successor, have systematically destroyed that country, which by all rights should be fairly wealthy

    Ironically a foreign power couldn't have done a better job of it


  • Options
    #55
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Balmed Out wrote: »
    Yeah but about ten years ago. Really beautiful and physically diverse country. At the time half loved chavez half hated him, no centre ground.

    Ex missus was Venezuelan. Her family was completly divided. Her father and his family were huge Chavez supporters whilst the mother and sisters detested everything about him. Thats seems to be normal in quite a few households. Your right, there is no centreground.

    Never had the balls to visit over the last few years when asked. Too much carnage.


  • Options
    #56
    Rumpy Pumpy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    The Venezuelan attorney general has been removed from her office by the new people's assembly.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/0805/895459-venezuela-chief-prosecutor/

    While other South American countries have started boycotts; the rest of the world seem to be largely ignoring what is happening. The ruling assembly say this is the start of a socialist Republic in a world that is now post-capitalist, but there's huge demonstrations happening on the streets that seem to indicate the workers don't agree with the idea.

    Should we be more/less outraged by what is happening?


  • Options
    #57
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    randomjoe wrote: »
    Fair fūcks to the Venezuelan people. Has anyone on here ever visited?

    Spent two weeks there about 10 years ago. In the airport in Caracas I was heading out the front door for a smoke whilst I waited for my life. A security guard stopped me and told me not to wander beyond the entrance as I'd be mugged.

    Once outside the cities it's lovely. I spent my time wandering from one fishing village to the next. I had people videotape me on a beach because they'd never seen someone so white. They were a lovely friendly people.


  • Options
    #58
    mistersifter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    A lot of criticism of socialism for the economic or social problems in Latin America. Fair enough, but the reality is that no system has worked in Latin America - right wing conservatives, centre right, centre left. They've done it all. Look at Argentina - 1990s neoliberalism ended in one of the worst economic crises in world history. 1970s dictatorship - enough said. Peronism didnt save the poor. Argentina currently has a centre-right business man for a president yet not much as changed for people there since Kirchner left office two years ago. Inflation is still out of control, crime is still rampant, corruption is still rampant , etc. etc. Nothing works because its Latin America - the sh*t on the end of the shoe of the USA and Europe.


  • Options
    #59
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Something like 97% of their export is from fossil fuel. A joke of a country.


  • Options
    #60
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    Venezuela has had over 22 constitutions. Its has instabiliy engrained into its foundations.

    over 26!

    26 what?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    a lot of the problem started with the US imposing sanctions on them

    the USA has a lot to answer for the mess in central and south america
    heaven forbid that the countries down there would start to go well - they would be a huge rival to the US economy


Advertisement