Venezuela is uprising.

Rumpy Pumpy

Just watching the videos on social media. It looks like the young people of Venezuala are rejecting the idea of the election. Fair fúcks to them.

Is this the very end of Soviet style socialism? Marx, Lenin, and Guevara?

questionmark?

I think your wording of rejecting the idea of the election doesn't exactly do the situation justice!

Messy situation going on for months which looks likely to get a lot worse.

LostHiigaran

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Just watching the videos on social media. It looks like the young people of Venezuala are rejecting the idea of the election. Fair fúcks to them.

Is this the very end of Soviet style socialism? Marx, Lenin, and Guevara?

Depends. For Venezuala? We would need to see what its replaced with.

For anywhere else, there will always be groups pushing the agenda. Canada and their C-16 bill for example.

Hande hoche!

Still have Raul Castro hanging in there.

Hande hoche!

Deleted User wrote: »

The Happening was actually on the telly this evening.

Owryan

But our lefty looney TDs claim it's a workers paradise!!!!!

wakka12

I would say they are uprising more because of the fact that most of the country is currently starving rather than for political reasons, obviously both are strongly connected but if there was a terrible government in place but venezuealsn weren't starving, I doubt there would be an uprising right now

BalcombeSt4

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Just watching the videos on social media. It looks like the young people of Venezuala are rejecting the idea of the election. Fair fúcks to them.

Is this the very end of Soviet style socialism? Marx, Lenin, and Guevara?

Two thirds of Venezuela's economy is controlled by the private sector, there's a higher % of people working in the Public sector in Britain, France, Norway, Sweden & Denmark than in Venezuala.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/18/socialism-private-sector-dominates-venezuelan-economy-despite-chavez-crusade.html

https://www.meneame.net/story/gobierno-venezolano-revocara-concesiones-285-emisoras-prohibe

Didn't know they had such a large private sector in the Soviet Union.

More of a Pinochet style coup than a genuine uprising.

riffmongous

Hande hoche! wrote: »

The Happening was actually on the telly this evening.

What? No

Richard Hillman

When you introduce socialism, there are no incentives for the private sector to do business, leading to empty shelves, queues for toilet roll and one last megalomaniac socialist trying to cling onto power/stay alive.

BalcombeSt4

Richard Hillman wrote: »

When you introduce socialism, there are no incentives for the private sector to do business, leading to empty shelves, queues for toilet roll and one last megalomaniac socialist trying to cling onto power/stay alive.

The private sector is bigger than the public sector. The people who runt the government might be socialist in outlook but they've failed in their goal of implenting socialism. The private sector in Venezuela is just too strong to bring about any real meaningful social & economic changes with the well of classes revolting & getting their mates from Washington to help destabilize things even futher..

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-venezuela-in-crisis/

Gatling

Basket case economics ,
Sad considering how that they sit on huge oil resources ,
But yet massive amounts been spent on expensive projects such as aerospace and railways badly tied into china,

Rumpy Pumpy

The uprising is beautiful.

suicide_circus

Paul Murphy for El Presidente

Outlaw Pete

Jaysus, I hope Veronica Rodriguez is gonna be alright.

VinLieger

Murphy & Coppinger et al have been very silent considering their previous hero worship of the Venezuelan socialist regime

J.pilkington

That country has been run into the ground by the last two clueless leaders. Opposition has been oppressed for the last 15 years so the corruption is unchallenged and rife. I visited in 2006 (against general advice), at the time oil prices were high so money was flush yet the place was so far behind it's poorer neighbours. The oil money seemed to instil a sense of laziness into the poorer class who had no incentive to grasp a very unique proposition for their country and drive on and rival the likes of chile, I've also seen this in Cuba, handouts are clearly not the way to go, young people need motivation, need to see their friends and family working hard otherwise like we have seen in Ireland where we have an element of this it's just a circle of trouble with generations of families contributing zero but taking plenty.

There is actually a great award winnning Irish documentary from when the army tried to overthrow Chavez in 2003, the tg4 camera crew had exclusive access when the coup took place. Definitely worth a watch. Ever since then the opposition have been seriously oppressed

A interesting fact for ye, Venezuela has the largest known oil reserves in the world (yes even bigger than Middle East countries), however price needs to be > than $100 as they are expensive to extract

Balmed Out

Spent a month in Venezuela about 10 years ago. Whatever about oil people forget the massive gas, iron, gold, diamond etc resources they have. It should be a very wealthy country even without the oil.

Far too long being cynically mismanaged by the "have's" and then by the "have not's". Every village had a billbord of chavez with the tag line "patria socialismo o muerte" which I think is patriotism, socialism or death.

topper75

Balmed Out wrote: »

Every village had a billbord of chavez with the tag line "patria socialismo o muerte" which I think is patriotism, socialism or death.

Nowadays this sounds less like alternative options and more like a grim sequence.

A lot of the developing world is way richer in resources than we are.

We would send aid to India, but they have a fuppin space programme. Africa is swimming in resources, but it is also swimming in corruption.

smurfjed

I work with some good friends who are Venezuelan, they were extremely happy a few years ago when Chavez finally died, but the new crowd just took the opportunity to fill their own pockets, the stories about the amount of money held by government employees or their families are shocking.
Not forgetting their illegal activities...
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/world/americas/nephews-of-venezuelas-first-lady-convicted-in-us.html

Hande hoche!

riffmongous wrote: »

What? No

Remember going to see it in the cinema, apparently the Irish release's violence was toned down. Forgot that it had a Deschanel sister in it. All in all, a very tame weekend.

mikhail

J.pilkington wrote: »

A interesting fact for ye, Venezuela has the largest known oil reserves in the world (yes even bigger than Middle East countries), however price needs to be > than $100 as they are expensive to extract

The quality of their oil is low, which is a major factor in this too.

Countries that are highly dependent on extracting and selling their resources seem to generally suffer in the long run.

biko

I hope the revolution will be televised.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Hande hoche!

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The Venezuelan army will introduce crossbows on steroids.

Doltanian

The Venezuelans are rising up against leftwing tyranny, meanwhile in Europe and America our special snowflake youth are protesting and crying out for the left left to impose socialism upon them. Ship them out to Venezuela and North Korea to see these workers paradises and what happens when the likes of Paul Murphy and Sinn Fein etc. are left anywhere near the reigns of power.

My respect to the Venezuelan youth, as for todays Special Snowflakes here, they need a good boot up the ass and a dose of reality.

A Little Pony

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Richard Hillman wrote: »

When you introduce socialism, there are no incentives for the private sector to do business, leading to empty shelves, queues for toilet roll and one last megalomaniac socialist trying to cling onto power/stay alive.

The private sector is bigger than the public sector. The people who runt the government might be socialist in outlook but they've failed in their goal of implenting socialism. The private sector in Venezuela is just too strong to bring about any real meaningful social & economic changes with the well of classes revolting & getting their mates from Washington to help destabilize things even futher..

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-venezuela-in-crisis/

This is said all the time when again one of the nutjob countries fails because of the inevitable outcome that Socialism does not work.

ChikiChiki

Very sad whats happening to Venezuela. I know a lot of Venezuelans around Dublin. Really nice people and its terrible to hear the stories of how their families are literally losing massive weight and starving at home. They call it the Maduro diet.

These people are sending little funds they have home but the food is just not there in the stores to buy. Its a mess of a country that under a different government could have been a paradise on the Carribean instead of the corrupt ****hole it's become.

At this rate I think ultimatly the starvation and desperation of the people will push the country into civil war.

scopper

biko wrote: »

I hope the revolution will be televised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c

This old doc, The Revolution will not be televised, is quite good on all this mess.

scopper

It sucks, but the prior crowd, the righties, were pretty corrupt themselves.

The problem in Venezuela is not left or right, it's corruption.

BalcombeSt4

A Little Pony wrote: »

This is said all the time when again one of the nutjob countries fails because of the inevitable outcome that Socialism does not work.

But it's not socialist. Some people call the Scandinavian countries socialist, but their not and they have larger public sectors than Venezuela. The core principle in Marxist socialism is the working class control the means of production and that's not true in any of these countries. Venezuela is in a mess because of corruption not because of any left-wing policies. But sure don't let anything like pesky facts get in the way.

Cheerful Spring

Dig deeper it probably another funded CIA supported coup.

Cheerful Spring

Never mind, just looked why am i not surprised.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-venezuela-crisis-government-mike-pompeo-helping-install-new-remarks-a7859771.html

jimmycrackcorm

BalcombeSt4 wrote:

But it's not socialist. Some people call the Scandinavian countries socialist, but their not and they have larger public sectors than Venezuela. The core principle in Marxist socialism is the working class control the means of production and that's not true in any of these countries. Venezuela is in a mess because of corruption not because of any left-wing policies. But sure don't let anything like pesky facts get in the way.

The pesky facts are that if it wasn't socialist then there would be food in the shops just like there is food in our shops.

You might bear in mind that the USSR, the GDDR et al had lots of empty food shelves and shortages in their socialist hey days. The socialist haven of north Korea finds its citizens having to boil grass to eat.


Socialism has never worked anywhere and the excuse is always trotted out that it has never been fully implemented. But socialism can't work because it can't deal with the reality of human beings.

The socialists have been running an oil rich country into the ground. There is no one else to blame.

Cheerful Spring

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The pesky facts are that if it wasn't socialist then there would be food in the shops just like there is food in our shops.

You might bear in mind that the USSR, the GDDR et al had lots of empty food shelves and shortages in their socialist hey days. The socialist haven of north Korea finds its citizens having to boil grass to eat.


Socialism has never worked anywhere and the excuse is always trotted out that it has never been fully implemented. But socialism can't work because it can't deal with the reality of human beings.

The socialists have been running an oil rich country into the ground. There is no one else to blame.

China, Scandinavian countries, Vietnam would be considered socialist countries (could list more but you understand?) Even Ireland is a socialist country to a certain degree.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Bogota is currently full of Venezuelans who have fled their country. It's an incredible reverse from the 90s and early 2000s, when Caracas was full of Colombian refugees fleeing the civil war here.

The Colombian far-right have been using the chaos in Venezuela to undermine the peace deal with the FARC, claiming it will turn the country into the new Venezuela. This is utter nonsense but a lot of people buy it.

Rumpy Pumpy

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

But it's not socialist. Some people call the Scandinavian countries socialist, but their not and they have larger public sectors than Venezuela. The core principle in Marxist socialism is the working class control the means of production and that's not true in any of these countries. Venezuela is in a mess because of corruption not because of any left-wing policies. But sure don't let anything like pesky facts get in the way.

It's always either the wrong type of socialism, or not enough socialism when the excuses from apologists start to fly.

jimmycrackcorm

China has only started to become successful once it began introducing capitalist market policies. Venezuela did the opposite.

Irish Praetorian

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

It's always either the wrong type of socialism, or not enough socialism when the excuses from apologists start to fly.

I plan on eating an appropriate hat when it becomes acceptable to say 'but Nazi Germany wasn't really a proper Fascist country' or 'Hitler was only pretending to be a Fascist'.

Ipso

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

The uprising is beautiful.

Especially when you can switch of the tv and forget about it.

randomjoe

Fair fūcks to the Venezuelan people. Has anyone on here ever visited?

Ipso

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

China, Scandinavian countries, Vietnam would be considered socialist countries (could list more but you understand?) Even Ireland is a socialist country to a certain degree.

Scandinavian countries aren't socialist, they are generous welfare states.
There's no excuse for defending failed communist/socialist states at this point in history.

Cheerful Spring

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

China has only started to become successful once it began introducing capitalist market policies. Venezuela did the opposite.

Opened it's markets you mean for trade and commerce? China is still a communist/socialist country politically. How can anyone consider it to be a failed state, when it's number one country globally with manufacturing? The Chinese also have an increasing middle class population.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

randomjoe wrote: »

Fair fūcks to the Venezuelan people. Has anyone on here ever visited?

Only to the border town of San Antonio de Tachira for a visa run. That place is a right dump. The Venezuelan soldiers manning the border are utter thugs.

MRnotlob606

Venezuela has had over 22 constitutions. Its has instabiliy engrained into its foundations.

over 26!

Achasanai

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

It's always either the wrong type of socialism, or not enough socialism when the excuses from apologists start to fly.

Explain to me how a country with such a high level of private enterprise is socialist though?

This isn't even just people from different political perspectives viewing other perspectives in a 'skewed' manner (we all do that) but Venezuela can't be objectively described as socialist with such a highly developed capitalist and private enterprise sector.

It has socialist elements - and the government has strong socialist elements - but I think you might need to explain what you think socialism is.

Cheerful Spring

Ipso wrote: »

Scandinavian countries aren't socialist, they are generous welfare states.
There's no excuse for defending failed communist/socialist states at this point in history.

North Korea is really, the only Stalinist like country left. China and Vietnam have modernism today.

Scandinavian countries aren't socialist (wrong) The government provides services that everyone benefits from. Socialist policies have shown to be effective in reducing the burden on companies starting up businesses. Imagine the relief when you don't have to pay for someone being sick or having to pay for their education? There tax system is also lot fairer, you pay more if you have more.

Aristotle145

A Little Pony wrote: »

This is said all the time when again one of the nutjob countries fails because of the inevitable outcome that Socialism does not work.

It works in Scandinavia,allthough in a different form of socialism the nordic model.

Ipso

Aristotle145 wrote: »

It works in Scandinavia,allthough in a different form of socialism the nordic model.

The governments there don't control the means of production. They have a high level of taxation to pay for social services, and lets be honest Irish people would never pay more taxes.

Aristotle145

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Scandinavian countries aren't socialist There tax system is also lot fairer, you pay more if you have more.

Thats depends on how much you have.
Some seem to get away with paying no tax at all.,but they still have billions.
So to say it fair isnt quite right.