Hints for cornering?

Lumen

^^ it looks to me like simply preparing for the corner too late.

The vanishing (limit) point was moving towards you and you weren't slowing down to match it.

Wonda-Boy

Paulw wrote: »

Here's how NOT to take a corner - too fast, too high a gear, and just not concentrating properly.

Yep, it was ME. :rolleyes:

WHO IS THAT LUNATIC LEADING.....MY GOD, ROSSI is it????

;)

frozenfrozen

what kind of cameras do you have paul, are they separate or linked somehow?


edit...
just looked at another video and see your set up now...

tobottherobot

Had similar issues myself... did the follow up training and turned out I was focusing on everything else rather than where I was going (kerbs, speed etc.) to the point I was getting frazzled, slowing and wobbling.

Might not be the same in your case but try lift the head and look further out ahead (y)

Esel

Countersteering.

Look where you want to go.

Vanishing point.

These three concepts will help - a lot!

Cienciano

Paulw wrote: »

Here's how NOT to take a corner - too fast, too high a gear, and just not concentrating properly.

Yep, it was ME. :rolleyes:

That's a great video. Hands up people who have never done exactly that at some point? No one? Just as I thought

Cienciano

rustynutz wrote: »

Pick up a copy of 'twist of the wrist 2" has all the information you need to start gaining more confidence in the corners

Yeah, loads of brilliant tips in this video. Well worth a watch.

GBX

Cienciano wrote: »

That's a great video. Hands up people who have never done exactly that at some point? No one? Just as I thought

Yep .. sure have. We all make mistakes .. keeps you on your toes!

Paulw

Cienciano wrote: »

That's a great video. Hands up people who have never done exactly that at some point? No one? Just as I thought

Thankfully, I haven't done it again since. Major lesson learned. I was really loving the ride that day until that point. Major reality check for me.

And, by watching mistakes (your own or others), we tend to learn more.

Max Headroom

More people should be forced by law to do track days..its the only real safe way to learn control at speed..fannying around at 50 isnt it...;)

Wonda-Boy

A motor-cross day would benefit you a hell of alot more then a track-day for motorbike experience but I get your point.

The only way to get good at anything is practise and motorbikes are no different, the more time you put in the more you get out. It helps if you have people around you to help/show you a few tips and tricks but you never stop learning.

batman_oh

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

A motor-cross day would benefit you a hell of alot more then a track-day for motorbike experience but I get your point.

The only way to get good at anything is practise and motorbikes are no different, the more time you put in the more you get out. It helps if you have people around you to help/show you a few tips and tricks but you never stop learning.

A trackday is much more relevant to cornering on the road as it will let you experience what the bike is capable of in corners. Motocross is completely different and you don't take corners on a road bike the same way. It is useful for other things though!

frozenfrozen

why not both

Wonda-Boy

batman_oh wrote: »

A trackday is much more relevant to cornering on the road as it will let you experience what the bike is capable of in corners. Motocross is completely different and you don't take corners on a road bike the same way. It is useful for other things though!

I did say motorbike experience, not just for cornering. Cornering is only a small part of motorbikes. Motor-cross will give you a hell of alot of confidence in all aspects of motorcycling incld getting over the fear of having a spill....and is unbelievably hard on the body so is a great work out.

But yeah if you dream about getting your knee down then a track day is a great idea and good fun.

Paulw

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

But yeah if you dream about getting your knee down then a track day is a great idea and good fun.

If I got my knee down, I'd be in serious trouble. If I had my panniers on, they would probably hit the ground before my knee would.

batman_oh

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

I did say motorbike experience, not just for cornering. Cornering is only a small part of motorbikes. Motor-cross will give you a hell of alot of confidence in all aspects of motorcycling incld getting over the fear of having a spill....and is unbelievably hard on the body so is a great work out.

But yeah if you dream about getting your knee down then a track day is a great idea and good fun.

The thread was about cornering - you don't need to be getting your knee down to learn how to do it a lot better. The track will also help you learn more about braking and help with bad habits like going for the brakes mid corner when you could just lean more and make it around if you were more used to how the bike corners. It's also hard work, maybe not as much as dirt biking but much more than road riding,

I'm not seeing how dirt biking is more applicable to a tarmac road myself.

Wonda-Boy

batman_oh wrote: »

The thread was about cornering - you don't need to be getting your knee down to learn how to do it a lot better. The track will also help you learn more about braking and help with bad habits like going for the brakes mid corner when you could just lean more and make it around if you were more used to how the bike corners. It's also hard work, maybe not as much as dirt biking but much more than road riding,

I'm not seeing how dirt biking is more applicable to a tarmac road myself.

M8 I know the thread is about cornering. OP said a track day is great for cornering which I agreed. I just said that OVERALL a motor x day would be better for learning what a bike and rider can do rather then a track day, I know you are an avid trackday rider no one is bashing trackdays.

In relation to not seeing how dirt biking is more applicable to tarmac roads you really need to google it. There is a very good reason that Moto GP racers do it every chance they get and that Rossi build a track at the back of his house....

I have done both track-days and the dirt bike sessions and I found the DB sessions invaluable.

But here are just a few reasons why motor x/dirt bike riding is extremely useful for biking in general:-

Moto cross is a fantastic way to better develop your “feel” for motorcycle controls in general.

The feel we’re talking about here is the fine, delicate feedback you get through your butt and your feet and hands on the controls (clutch, throttle, front brake, shift lever and brake pedal), along with the simultaneous application of those various controls. On the dirt, you can feel more easily for threshold braking, lean angles, the friction zone of the clutch, sliding tires and precise shifting and throttle control. Good feel comes when all your senses and muscles are working together. Dirtbiking helps you “become one” with any motorcycle you ride which in turn translates to street bikes.

Moto Cross / Dirtbikes are a better place to learn braking and turning skills and their limits.
Braking and turning are two of the most important fundamental skills you must have to ride a motorcycle properly, and natural terra firma is the best place to learn and develop those skills. To be good at serious braking, you must practice by exceeding the limits consistently and safely to develop a feel for operating right at the limit, where braking is best. For obvious reasons, dirt is the best place to reach those limits. In the same way to be good at serious leaning, you must practice by leaning too much and low-siding to better understand the limits. With proper leaning skills learned in the dirt, there’s a greater chance you’ll be comfortable when the tires do slide on pavement so you don’t panic and overreact.


Dirt is a better place to become accustomed to speed.

Motor Cross and Dirtbikes are fast, but they’re mild compared to the acceleration and sheer speed that a streetbike can attain. Not many people are prepared and qualified for how fast streetbikes really are. The truth is, most people will only go as fast as they feel comfortable with, regardless of their engine size. Why not learn to walk before you run? Concentrate on control in the dirt first where speeds are slower. Improve your control, which builds your confidence and eventually, you’ll be going faster both on the dirt and the street.

Motor Cross and Dirt riding is a better place to learn how to help your bike.
In the dirt, you learn how to lean, move forward and rearward on the seat, stand up and move your body side-to-side. You can’t move much on a streetbike, but it doesn’t take much body movement to help it a lot. In the dirt, there’s no such thing as moving too much, and you quickly learn how your body position can really help (or hurt) your bike’s handling. By the time you hop on streetbike, you’ll already have a great knowledge of weight transfer, and it should be a snap.


Dirt is a better overall environment for learning to ride motorcycles.

Besides the fact that a dirt surface is much more forgiving than pavement, softer, there are also far fewer distractions out on the trail than on the street. There are no cars or pedestrians to avoid, traffic laws to obey or pretty girls walking along the sidewalk to distract you. Sure, there are hazards in the dirt, but they’re nothing like the abundant distractions found on the street. Dirt riding is where you should learn to become a great rider so that when you hit the street, those skills will better ensure that you will never make a big mistake in that less-forgiving environment.

Lumen

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

In the same way to be good at serious leaning, you must practice by leaning too much and low-siding to better understand the limits.

That sounds like an expensive lesson.

I haven't done any proper off-roading, but I did at least learn that on loose surfaces at low speed (my crappy gravel driveway) you have to keep the bike upright and turn the bars rather than leaning.

The tip I got was "ride it like you have a pizza box balanced on top of the tank".

The_Chap

The off-road experience is actually a good point WondaBar is making, I completely forgot that I'd been riding dirt bikes from 7yr old, I grew up on a farm and got an Italjet 50 for Xmas that year from my brothers much to my mams disappointment lol

Anyways, whenever I've pushed too hard and had slippage - it hasn't been an issue as I instinctively know how to correct without realising it - I found this out recently giving a handful on a drying road overtaking, felt back end step out but thought nothing of it, when we'd parked up my mate came over who was behind me and said I thought you were gone there, it looked more impressive than it felt

I could have learned that on a trackday of which I've also done, but it would be a more expensive lesson to learn if I found any limit!

gerrowadat

It's something I've always thought of doing and I think Wonda's spot on, knowing the limits of the bike and how it behaves adversely is my #1 point that stops me improving. I wish there was something equivalent to a skid car you could learn this sort of stuff on, or somewhere you could do offroad or motox without spending an arm or a leg or being surrounded by beemer heads (the bad kind, I'm the good kind you understand).

jay48

If you're having trouble cornering , as was said , it's down to a combination of vision , positioning and throttle control . Go to an instructor and get some lessons .
Motox will get you used to bike control and the bike getting loose but will do nothing to help you get around a corner on the road .

rat_race

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

Trust the bike, if you take it too fast countersteering will drop you down further and take you around.

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I haven't figured out countersteering yet. I know that it exists, but I don't know how to do it yet. I'm wary of jerking the bars too quickly.

cantdecide wrote: »

I know at least one rider that doesn't counter steer and favours basically leaning/ falling into the corners.

Esel wrote: »

Countersteering.!

Always amazed/confused when people talk about counter-steering like it is some sort amazing hard-to-master alternative way to go around corners!

It really should be explained in an IBT without fail though, because as is obvious, too many people don't know they're doing it. Anyone travelling faster than about 15KMH while going around almost any bend, is counter-steering...

OP: take your bike to a carpark, and while going about 30/40KMH, counter-steer...push the bar right & and forward to go right, or left and forward to go left. You'll see you can change direction and lean over very quickly and safely...

Just try it out; you're not going to fall off as long as you have momentum. And note that this is the way to take bends, it isn't an alternative or some emergency-only manoeuvre: it's the only way.

Wonda-Boy

I honestly think people get confused when people say "Push or Pull" the handle bars!

We are taking the slightest "Tip or Nudge" to make the bike lean, it really is a very very small adjustment. It even applies to push bikes which no doubt you have been doing since a kid.

Airliner

Are you on the heavy side, have you any preload adjustment on the rear shock(s)? If the answer to both is yes try adding more preload to the rear. It changes the bike geometry by lifting the back end and you should find it easier to turn in. Adding preload does not make your suspension stiffer, lots of people think it does, that is the function of damping which may/may not be adjustable on your bike. Setting SAG should be the first thing every rider does on getting a new bike if you have preload adjustable suspension.

I love Sean nos

Airliner wrote: »

Are you on the heavy side

Oy!

Hotblack Desiato

Whatever about cornering, you sure have your ctrl-c ctrl-v technique down, Wonda

"tires" Uhuh.

Maybe just post the link next time.

Wonda-Boy

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Whatever about cornering, you sure have your ctrl-c ctrl-v technique down, Wonda

"tires" Uhuh.

Maybe just post the link next time.

The link had loads of stuff not pertinent to the topic, so I took the stuff that did. But great contribution all the same thanx.

Zipppy

Airliner wrote:

Are you on the heavy side, have you any preload adjustment on the rear shock(s)? If the answer to both is yes try adding more preload to the rear. It changes the bike geometry by lifting the back end and you should find it easier to turn in. Adding preload does not make your suspension stiffer, lots of people think it does, that is the function of damping which may/may not be adjustable on your bike. Setting SAG should be the first thing every rider does on getting a new bike if you have preload adjustable suspension.

Airliner wrote:

Are you on the heavy side, have you any preload adjustment on the rear shock(s)? If the answer to both is yes try adding more preload to the rear. It changes the bike geometry by lifting the back end and you should find it easier to turn in. Adding preload does not make your suspension stiffer, lots of people think it does, that is the function of damping which may/may not be adjustable on your bike. Setting SAG should be the first thing every rider does on getting a new bike if you have preload adjustable suspension.

Excellent post...

slavetothegrind

good advice here and fair play Paulw for posting that!

I think we all did that once!

When i was starting out a friend of mine, an ex-road racer, brought me out and made me deliberately slide on the front wheel to get used to it so i wouldn't panic. On a slippery sloping road with wet leaves, at a slow pace he made me jam on and feel the skid and live with it.

Was great because it was not too long afterwards i came over a crest in wicklow to see a 90 degree right turn and i piled on the front anchor into a skid but i didn't panic and turned in releasing the brake and trusting the bike to make the bend. Not sure if i would have had the ability without having felt that before.

I'm no great pilot trust me, but i am better for the tuition i got .

Ride within your comfort zone lads!

If i tried to keep up with that mate i would be dead. He used to make a show of people and him two up on a 1200 bandit!!!!!

I love Sean nos

Airliner wrote: »

Are you on the heavy side, have you any preload adjustment on the rear shock(s)? If the answer to both is yes try adding more preload to the rear. It changes the bike geometry by lifting the back end and you should find it easier to turn in. Adding preload does not make your suspension stiffer, lots of people think it does, that is the function of damping which may/may not be adjustable on your bike. Setting SAG should be the first thing every rider does on getting a new bike if you have preload adjustable suspension.

Just checked the manual for the FZ6 and pages 3-14 and 3-15 talk about adjusting the preload. I'll take a look under the seat tomorrow, see which one of the seven available settings is in use and maybe try a different one.

I was using countersteering before, but not consciously. After reading the posts here and watching some YouTube stuff, I tried it out last week on the spin into work. Was interesting testing it out on a straight on the Swords - Ashbourne road that morning, making the bike weave slightly. It has improved my cornering I think, knowing that pushing the right bar slightly tightens my turn to the right and vice versa.

Now I think my cornering problem has changed. Now I think I'm entering corners too slow. I slow either using the brakes or the engine, but then I've possibly slowed too much and it takes me a moment to accelerate back to the speed I want to be taking the corner at.

I'll keep practicing.